I took a few days out when I felt it getting to me. I know that @moses did too. Can’t speak for the others but likely the same.
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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I don't understand why this topic has been placed in the main Man Utd discussion forum again. I don't understand why we even have this topic open for discussion again.
Like it or not, Greenwood will never play for United again and rightly so. Move on and forget about him.
Like it or not, Greenwood will never play for United again and rightly so. Move on and forget about him.
I'd add the phrase "previously but no longer alleged due to withdrawal of accuser and emergence of new evidence" into nearly every sentence of your post.
If I were as adamant that he was guilty of being “a scumbag rapist sex offender and domestic abuser” as you however, I don’t know that I would still support the club, given I’d be convinced it’s plain-faced lied about thinking he's innocent of the charges he was previously but is no longer accused of.
On the topic of feeling ashamed of myself. I watched Se7en the other night and loved it. If Spacey was in another film now as good as Se7en, I'd watch it. I also like John Lennon's music. I like classic Disney films and will show them to my children. I cheered Ronaldo’s goals.
Perhaps I should take a long hard look at myself, but I don't go to a football match and feel good or bad about the morality or lack thereof of the players. I don't watch a film and think 'this excellent film/ song is now entirely ruined' because of the deeds of an actor/ singer. I go to see art, entertainment and in the case of sport, winning, and can detach that from the flaws of messed up individuals (99% of which we probably don’t know about).
And the examples I’ve used, had much more fleshed out claims, with rounded accusations made and retained about them. So wanting to watch Greenwood help our team and repay our investment to me feels even less morally questionable, if that really matters.
even more commendable when you know they’re both huge pieces of shit and their personal views on the matter are wildly different to their perceived level headed normalness displayed in here.
Fair enough, if you're okay with supporting scumbags, because they happen to be talented, good for you. Some of us aren't that desperate to win a football match at any cost we'll leave morality in the sewers.
If anyone wants to sell me access to the mods only forum my DMs are open
Everything you've said has already been replied to and explained why it's a false equivalence. That's all you're getting, not worth the effort.
Seymour Skinner it's the mods who are wrong.jpg
I have been following this thread as a guest and feel compelled to register and post as I feel as though a lot of the views of those that would welcome MG back are being misrepresented or unfairly dismissed. I was actually in the camp of not wanting him at the club again and thinking he would never play for United again initially but reading up on the case and this thread has changed my mind.
People speaking with such certainty about a situation where all the facts are not known and there are lots of grey areas makes me very uneasy.
Ultimately I think it comes back to a bedrock principle in this country that you are innocent until proven guilty. This seems to be totally overlooked or downplayed by those that are happy to flat out all him a rapist, domestic abuser etc.
I don't think there is anyone arguing that if he had been found guilty of any of the things he had been charged with that he should ever be playing for United again.
Howver he wasn't.
Attempted rape is such an abhorrent crime and as such, for me, the bar for thinking someone is an attempted rapist is really high. You've got to sure, it's got to be proven in court - that's the system, that's how it works. Anything else is chaos and results in anyone who has been accused being lumped in those that have actually been convicted.
As much as those that don't want MG playing for United again won't like it if you are calling him scum and saying you don't want him at the club remember you are doing so based on incomplete partial evidence (however damning it appears) and you do not have the full picture. And many of these posters seem to be completely dug in to thier position and there wouldn't appear to be anything that could come out to change thier mind - which is never a good position to be in in any argument.
I'd actually be willing to concede that it's more likely than not that he did some or all of what he was accused of. However that's just not enough to condemn him, it can't be in a domestic abuse case. There's way too much out there to create doubt - the CPS not pursing the case as new material came to light, the club statement saying they do not think MG did what he was accsued of, and the club statement saying there was evidence they had sight of that is not in the public domain, the partner's Father's statement straight after the audio was leaked.
I'm not comfortable treating someone who is innocent in the eyes of the law as if they are guilty. I don't think it's morally right, and I think it's wrong to imply that anyone who would have MG back at the club is somehow ok with domestic abuse or that they are morally a lesser person than someone who doesn't want him back.
People speaking with such certainty about a situation where all the facts are not known and there are lots of grey areas makes me very uneasy.
Ultimately I think it comes back to a bedrock principle in this country that you are innocent until proven guilty. This seems to be totally overlooked or downplayed by those that are happy to flat out all him a rapist, domestic abuser etc.
I don't think there is anyone arguing that if he had been found guilty of any of the things he had been charged with that he should ever be playing for United again.
Howver he wasn't.
Attempted rape is such an abhorrent crime and as such, for me, the bar for thinking someone is an attempted rapist is really high. You've got to sure, it's got to be proven in court - that's the system, that's how it works. Anything else is chaos and results in anyone who has been accused being lumped in those that have actually been convicted.
As much as those that don't want MG playing for United again won't like it if you are calling him scum and saying you don't want him at the club remember you are doing so based on incomplete partial evidence (however damning it appears) and you do not have the full picture. And many of these posters seem to be completely dug in to thier position and there wouldn't appear to be anything that could come out to change thier mind - which is never a good position to be in in any argument.
I'd actually be willing to concede that it's more likely than not that he did some or all of what he was accused of. However that's just not enough to condemn him, it can't be in a domestic abuse case. There's way too much out there to create doubt - the CPS not pursing the case as new material came to light, the club statement saying they do not think MG did what he was accsued of, and the club statement saying there was evidence they had sight of that is not in the public domain, the partner's Father's statement straight after the audio was leaked.
I'm not comfortable treating someone who is innocent in the eyes of the law as if they are guilty. I don't think it's morally right, and I think it's wrong to imply that anyone who would have MG back at the club is somehow ok with domestic abuse or that they are morally a lesser person than someone who doesn't want him back.
But but but she dropped charges therefore it’s okay. Forget the voice notes and images.. she stuck by him so it’s perfectly fine. Domestic violence victims never take their partners back, especially when their international footballers with millions in the bank. Wouldn’t happen.
I'm going to choose not to engage with you on this issue.
Some crazy opinions coming out in this thread
It is because he wasn't convicted that he isn't in jail. He's playing professional football in a top league earning 75k/week, so of course he isn't "lumped in" with those people who are convicted and jailed.
Very few, if any, have claimed that under no circumstances would they have him back. If she made it up, or it turned out that it was some sex game, of course people would change their minds. But as you even admit, the balance of probability indicates that he probably did those things - so why should we accept him back to the club? If he wants to play for United again, he can explain the images and audio. If he doesn't want to explain what happened, he can go play elsewhere. It's as simple as that. We know the path he has chosen so far...
I'm not comfortable with having someone representing the club i support who, on a very strong balance of probability, is a horrendous domestic abuser. Greenwood seems ok with a lot of grey. Good for him. He can feck off from United.
Your last sentence might be poignant if many disgraceful views about domestic abuse and rape were not posted in this thread in defense of Mason Greenwood. Surely, as someone who follows this thread, you can see that right?
I think you are absolutely right. MG was judged by a court of the mob, which is really a shame.
The very fact that his girlfriend has given birth to his baby is conveniently forgotten. Some just want to show their virtue at the cost of his footballing career at United, in the name of siding with the victim although the victim has decided to move on with their life.
Poor little footballer earning 75k/week. Won't the woke mob please think of the children!
People heard audio of him threatening rape and photos of the domestic abuse he committed and judged him
Nobody is forgetting anything, but it doesn't explain what people saw and heard.
Players have been booed by supporters for all sorts of things and nobody is as outraged as people trying to defend MG. If people don't want him at the club (not put in jail) after what they saw, then surely that's not an insane leap?
Quality control
As if it’s only one group repeating points.
If you’re aren’t going to properly respond to a discussion on a discussion board, why post at all? Just to be sanctimonious?
It’s important to remember that between 10-30% of DV victims stay with their partners. So even though it makes it statistically less likely, it certainly doesn’t rule it out.
We need some sort of card that debunks all the tired arguments that we can hand out to the sleeper agents when they activate.
Ah yes, because famously in British law you are automatically innocent if the victim forgives you and everyone should pretend it didn't happen.
Because it's been discussed and debunked to death in here and if you don't care to read that or spend some time actually thinking about what you're saying then you aren't worth the effort.
We all have our price.
People heard audio of him threatening rape and photos of the domestic abuse he committed and judged him
Just the one goat and they call me ....
The irony is when we repeatedly make the arguments, we get called obsessed and accused of polluting the thread etc.
He's always had quality on the ball and two-footedness but it is good to see that his decision making and maturity as a forward is improving.
Aye, reiterating the obvious to dimwits who either haven't read the thread or think they are shedding new light on proceedings.
Ok just for a moment, talking about football only.. he seems a lazy fecker, same as Rashford. Don’t so much to help their team in the wide areas. Dont need another one thanks
Clearly been given a license to stay up as he is regularly the output to hold the ball up, I don't think they want him coming back and would rather save him for his attacking work, he is upping their whole game on an attacking sense, Mayoral who gets a lot of the goals/ plaudits scored 8 last year and already has 15 this year and you can see his movement change when Greenwood gets the ball as he clearly believes in his ability more to find him
Ok but he was the same at United. Didn’t track back
Can't deny that but I'm not quite sure on OGS tactics and what he asked of anyone in regards to tactics, can imagine he was more of a man manager than specific tactical advice, that's obviously me guessing but I have no doubt he can do the work back as well if he is asked to as it's more a stamina issue.
Don't. If they can do the gymnastics required to overlook the media we saw. You think they are going to let you criticise his footballing abilities?
If by "They" you are referring to me as part of the group, I don't accept by a long way that he is the perfect player but tracking back is a level of effort/ stamina and nothing to do with ability. He has ability it's always his mentality that has been in question and I'm in no place to judge that, I can only comment on what I see.
On the contrary.
Your post was speculation and imagination.
I was inferring from his footballing performance against Celta Vigo. He had problems with selfishness and tunnel vision when he was playing at United; to me it seems to have improved a bit.
I have not made comments regarding the social media posts or criminal charges brought by the CPS and then subsequently dropped.
Aye, that still involves contortions in my opinion. I'm not stopping you, just advising someone to leave ye all to it.
Taking it out of context there, I was saying "Can only comment on what I see" in regards to Mason's mindset as I have no insight, my inference on OGS tactics and likely instructions was me suggesting a theory and not stating it as fact, anyway your original post that was a sweeping generalization was the one I was addressing which tried grouping everyone who doesn't want him shot on sight can't criticize anything about his game and I do think he can be a bit selfish at times and try the "Hollywood Ball" too often.
Grand. No interest in chatting about his football.
Odd that you would make a comment on others not willing to admit something about his football ability and then when I do, you aren't interested?
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