Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

Status
Not open for further replies.
duffer said:
What could she say though? "those pics were fake"?
Click to expand...
Its a case of a cluster of topics. But that is a good point. She cant say much due to legal reasons only stuff about it all in general. Which has to be really well coordinated/well prepared to not get into PR havoc/too much unwarranted attention. But we need something.

Just some words in general from them both would be nice. Cant see how MG can possibly have a career at United without it, as it’s the victim’s way of viewing it all to allow him/us to even entertain the notion of him playing at United. But it’s more complex than just that, because we just don’t know if she’s been toxic too and we’re only seeing one side of the story.

Some parts of this case is like being part of the movie “12 angry men”, but without knowing any information or just very little at all. Not even any bigger context and we can’t even get that. So how can we really say how bad MG is?
 
Rood said:
I think I missed that original poll, was this after the club announced he was leaving?

Might be worth putting in the title here that there is a new poll, even people in this thread seem not to have realised !
Click to expand...

Getting rid of the poll would be better imo. It's just fuelling the worst thread on the forum, about a player the club have exiled.
 
Thanks everyone for the responses.

Leftback99 said:
Question back. Would anyone want him anywhere near us if he wasn't good at football?
Click to expand...

Only responding to this as I’m confused.
We’re a football club, trying to get players to win football matches.

We can have debates around the interest we should show in players private lives, the premise of the presumption of innocence and the importance of second chances. But why would we want anyone near us who was crap at football, irrespective of what they have or haven’t done?
 
goalscholes said:
Thanks everyone for the responses.



Only responding to this as I’m confused.
We’re a football club, trying to get players to win football matches.

We can have debates around the interest we should show in players private lives, the premise of the presumption of innocence and the importance of second chances. But why would we want anyone near us who was crap at football, irrespective of what they have or haven’t done?
Click to expand...
Point is my opinion of whether he should get another chance here doesn't change if I think he's the best player in the world, or the worst. It's irrelevant.
 
moses said:
Getting rid of the poll would be better imo. It's just fuelling the worst thread on the forum, about a player the club have exiled.
Click to expand...

Polls are always useful to get a general feel of where our fanbase is at but then need as many to vote as possible.

Someone in this thread suggested Redcafe would be 80% against him returning, no idea what gave them that impression.

my gut feel was 50/50 on this one, but for me personally Yes/No is too simplistic anyway.
 
Rood said:
Polls are always useful to get a general feel of where our fanbase is at but then need as many to vote as possible.

Someone in this thread suggested Redcafe would be 80% against him returning, no idea what gave them that impression.

my gut feel was 50/50 on this one, but for me personally Yes/No is too simplistic anyway.
Click to expand...

We know how we feel collectively?
The fact this debate is so constant surely says it's pretty close and divisive? Otherwise one voice would be louder?

Also yes, too complex for yes/no. As I said, poll serves zero purpose.
 
Rood said:
Someone in this thread suggested Redcafe would be 80% against him returning, no idea what gave them that impression.
Click to expand...

It was about 50/50 in the other poll iirc (the one I can’t locate at the moment). I always suspected there would be a slight shift towards keeping him as a result of the recency bias of posters seeing his recent performances. The new numbers seem to back this up.
 
moses said:
We know how we feel collectively?
The fact this debate is so constant surely says it's pretty close and divisive? Otherwise one voice would be louder?

Also yes, too complex for yes/no. As I said, poll serves zero purpose.
Click to expand...
Just an ego boost to try and prove a point.
 
moses said:
We know how we feel collectively?
The fact this debate is so constant surely says it's pretty close and divisive? Otherwise one voice would be louder?

Also yes, too complex for yes/no. As I said, poll serves zero purpose.
Click to expand...

The flow of threads doesnt always reflect the general opinion - you can get a loud minority sometimes
 
Leftback99 said:
Point is my opinion of whether he should get another chance here doesn't change if I think he's the best player in the world, or the worst. It's irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Let me try to explain this to you.

If a player is shit, fans will want him out. If that shit player then gets involved in serious controversy / legal trouble, the fans who already wanted him out for being shit will still want him out - regardless of off-the-pitch incidents, he's shit!

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand here. Nothing to do with second chances.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Let me try to explain this to you.

If a player is shit, fans will want him out. If that shit player then gets involved in serious controversy / legal trouble, the fans who already wanted him out for being shit will still want him out - regardless of off-the-pitch incidents, he's shit!

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand here. Nothing to do with second chances.
Click to expand...
Think the point being made is more that: people are eager to try and look for alternative explanations that will exonerate the player, and this wouldn’t be the case if he wasn’t any good.
 
Withnail said:
Very few apparently. I've done a bit of reading on the subject and it's a peculiarity of domestic abusers. They tend not to admit they did anything wrong or that anything was their fault and, as a consequence, there is little hope for rehabilitation or for them to change their behaviour.
Click to expand...
I don't want to get too into it but I know someone who has changed. Everyone is different. That's why I'm more open to Greenwood than most.
 
Posh Red said:
Think the point being made is more that: people are eager to try and look for alternative explanations that will exonerate the player, and this wouldn’t be the case if he wasn’t any good.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, then you've done a better job in one sentence of conveying the other poster's POV than he did in a dozen or so posts.
 
Withnail said:
Very few apparently. I've done a bit of reading on the subject and it's a peculiarity of domestic abusers. They tend not to admit they did anything wrong or that anything was their fault and, as a consequence, there is little hope for rehabilitation or for them to change their behaviour.
Click to expand...
Do you have a source for this? Anything about reoffending rates too? Would be interested to read more on the subject.
 
So the poll is back. Well my stance is the same, if his girlfriend and her family and everyone close to her are all happy with him after all that had happened, who are we to judge? We don’t know any better than them on the whole situation for sure. End of day, I see no reason why we can’t give him second chance. Sometimes we do fight with our siblings in family, and have done things we regretted, but most important of all is whether there is forgiveness or not. What we do know here though is that they look happily together in a family raising a baby now, that’s all it matters to me.
 
RedRonaldo said:
So the poll is back. Well my stance is the same, if his girlfriend and her family and everyone close to her are all happy with him after all that had happened, who are we to judge? We don’t know any better than them on the whole situation for sure. End of day, I see no reason why we can’t give him second chance. Sometimes we do fight with our siblings in family, and have done things we regretted, but most important of all is whether there is forgiveness or not. What we do know here though is that they look happily together in a family raising a baby now, that’s all it matters to me.
Click to expand...

Sometimes we have fights with siblings, sometimes we try to sexually assault our partners, what's the difference really? What's most important is the power of forgiveness (and man utd having good players).
 
Without a doubt, yes. It would be insane to let such a gifted individual go.
 
RedRonaldo said:
So the poll is back. Well my stance is the same, if his girlfriend and her family and everyone close to her are all happy with him after all that had happened, who are we to judge? We don’t know any better than them on the whole situation for sure. End of day, I see no reason why we can’t give him second chance. Sometimes we do fight with our siblings in family, and have done things we regretted, but most important of all is whether there is forgiveness or not. What we do know here though is that they look happily together in a family raising a baby now, that’s all it matters to me.
Click to expand...
I hope that he’s realised his behaviour was awful and also that becoming a father has helped him mature. We know from all the reporting around his behaviour at the club, he seemed to be lacking in a lot of areas.

If United are going to persist with bringing him back, I still expect to see some kind of statement or interview, not necessarily explaining in detail what happened because I’m not that naive enough to believe that would be truthful, but ensuring that there has been work going on behind the scenes to correct his behaviour. Maybe he’s been doing counselling or therapy.

Until that happens, I don’t expect most fans to forget about it and accept that she forgave him so that’s the end of it.
 
Bright_Eyes said:
Sometimes we have fights with siblings, sometimes we try to sexually assault our partners, what's the difference really? What's most important is the power of forgiveness (and man utd having good players).
Click to expand...
You want to clarify this before I report you?
 
Rood said:
I assume he's trying (and failing) to be funny - if you want to make jokes about such things then go to the General
Click to expand...


They were pointing out the absurdity of the previous post.


Obvious, except to the one-eyed.
 
The above is why this thread is so hard to moderate. The post that sparked the sarcastic reply reiterates the tired and flawed logic of "she forgave him why can't we" that is consistently peddled and is in my opinion ignorance, and I suspect wilfully so, as so many posters have at length explained the stats and context surrounding this claim. Mostly ignored. Yet a glib pushback and everyone sees it.

Very little of this thread is in good faith.
 
moses said:
The above is why this thread is so hard to moderate. The post that sparked the sarcastic reply reiterates the tired and flawed logic of "she forgave him why can't we" that is consistently peddled and is in my opinion ignorance, and I suspect wilfully so, as so many posters have at length explained the stats and context surrounding this claim. Mostly ignored. Yet a glib pushback and everyone sees it.

Very little of this thread is in good faith.
Click to expand...

I dont agree that there is anything flawed in that opinion, it's clearly an opinion that many people agree with.

She (and more importantly her family) obviously know the details of what exactly happened much better than we do so, as far as I'm concerned, they are the best ones to judge the way forward.

Having that kind of opinion doesnt automatically mean you think he is innocent either. Often linked to ideas about second chances etc.

Stats about about abuse are important to know but not every case fits.
 
Rood said:
I dont agree that there is anything flawed in that opinion, it's clearly an opinion that many people agree with.

She (and more importantly her family) obviously know the details of what exactly happened much better than we do so, as far as I'm concerned, they are the best ones to judge the way forward.

Having that kind of opinion doesnt automatically mean you think he is innocent either. Often linked to ideas about second chances etc.

Stats about about abuse are important to know but not every case fits.
Click to expand...

Anything which ignores context is a flawed argument.

My only point, and they are not engaged with in any similar zeal.
 
Yes.

Until we have a more suitable player for his position, I would like him to come back and help us win games. I don't care about what happened off the field since no one is charged with anything and the couple has stayed together.

I don't think a club like Real Madrid would get rid of their best attacker in this scenario and we shouldn't either.
 
duffer said:
So you haven't voted in the poll then? Or have you judged him?

I ain't voting by the way, as a non Man United fan I'll bore you all with my opinion but won't vote in polls like this.
Click to expand...

The poll is not a judgement on innocence or guilt
 
What MG allegedly did was scummy in a world of many scummy people (many have played for United in the past!! Hopefully as he gets older he will give back to his family and society.

His talent is undeniable though and I want United to benefit from that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.