This lad is gonna win us a European super league in a few years
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 52
- Goals
- 12
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
No worries.Haha, yeah, it looks like the site I was quoting have got "all time goals" mixed up with "goals in one season". I retract the above, should have looked more into it
I'm just shocked how incredibly lethal a young Owen apparently was. Unfortunately, it was a few years too early for me to witness it. But if Wayne Rooney managed around 30 as a teenager - and Owen a whopping 46 - I mean... That's insane from Owen.We wish!
No worries.
Owen was pretty lethal untill the games/ injuries caught up with him, he was kinda done at 25 though as a result.
I think he’s at least as good as Haaland. Doing much more than he was at his age, better technically, much less of a tosser. You’re lucky to have him.
I’m glad he’s found his feet again, we’re lucky to have him and he’s a great talent, but this is just silly.
Haaland at 19:
44 goals, 10 assists in 2751 minutes. Directly involved in a goal every 51 minutes.
10 goals and 1 assist in 554 minutes of CL-football
Greenwood this season:
9 goals, 5 assists in 2614 minutes......doing much more than he was at his age?
Different planets!
I'll like to believe Ole plays three strikers because his other wing options are James (not so great), Amad (not ready yet) and Mata (past it), it would be daft if he does nothing about it this summer.
It's fine. Greenwood and Rashford are far better footballers than the likes of James. But going forward I think someone like Sancho fits is perfectly.
Greenwood is a much better technical footballer.
I just have to straighten the fact here:No worries.
Owens best season as a teenager:
23 goals in 40 matches in all comps.
He never scored 20 goals in a single PL season in his career, and never more than 28 in all comps.
Rooneys best season as a teenager:
17 goals in 43 matches in all comps.
They were not as insane as we like to remember them.....
Where did you fined those numbers? .... or are they total goals scored before turning 20?
47 goals in 7137 minutes - 152 minutes per goal for Owen really isn’t that incredibly leathal is it?
34 goals in 8266 minutes - 243 minutes per goal for Rooney is pretty far behind the greats...
26 goals in 5324 minutes so far for Greenwood, makes it 205 minutes per goal for him.
Compared to Mbappe, R9 and Haaland in their teens, these guys look pretty average:
Mbappe - 48 goals, 141 minutes per goal. He also had 31 assists by then, and was world champion playing a key role in the WC.
Haaland - 65 goals, 89 minutes per goal.
R9 - 54 goals for PSV, 87 minutes per goal, and he 44 goals in 47 matches for Cruzeiro at 16 and 17 before that. Total 98 club goals before he went to Barca just before he turned 20.
Greenwood is really good, and will hopefully develop into a top class forward, but he has a loooong way to go before he should be compared to the absolute top talents....
What’s his successrate on dribbles, how often does he get past his defender, how good is his movement, how good is his positional awareness, how often does he shake his marker(s), how often does he invite to progressive 1-2s with fellow attackers? And most importantly, how often does he score goals or serve his teammates? If Haalands job was to circulate the ball he would look better technically, but it isn’t, his job is to play as direct as possible, attract defenders and threaten space most of the time. I saw a guy on La Rambla once who could do things with a football Messi can’t, not sure he was a good footballer though.....
I’m delighted that he has found some form and played some crisp football the last couple of matches, but Greenwood still has a lot to learn and a long way to go to be compared to Haaland.
I’d love nothing more than for you to quote me here when he’s scored a brace for us in 4 straight CL matches....
Counting just goals and judging players by that is just silly, like football is only statistics, take into account leagues, game played against, system, positions and overal contribution. Both players are brilliant but Greenwood is playing in much more competetive league in a rigid system on the flank mostly, in and out of the team. All players develop at different pace too. Where was Jamie Vardy at 19, where was he at 25 ffs, nowehere. Haaland is a physical specieman, and Greenwood only just developped the running power of a grown up footballer, still growing into his muscles, Haaland is a great no9 but Greenwood is more like Mbpappe Ultimate forward capable of magic all the time.
I mean... mate... they were all teenagers - cut them some slack for not banging in 25 league goals a season as a 16-19-year old
And yes - the Owen goals are total goals scored before 20. And I think the output that you list for him as a teenager is out of this world. Same with a teenage Rooney. A goal every 152 minutes/242 minutes as a teenager is great - and the fact you are trying to downplay that with players like R9, Haaland and Mbappe is fecking dumb. That way, in the next 25 years we'll have... what... three "top talents" as of your standard. And in regards to Haaland... are you... are you counting goals from the Norwegian 3. division? If you are... you should sort yourself out.
I don't get this new fecking trend, that - if a teenager doesn't bang in goals like Mbappe or Haaland at their very age, they cannot be impressive in their own way. Vardy didn't see PL till he was 27 or something. He's been one of the best strikers in the league, the past 5 years.
If you want to watch football through an excel sheet only with stats of G/A - and be all like "they weren't as insane as we remember them" fine, go ahead. By that way of approaching football Ryan Giggs and Luis Figo were mediocre at best, looking at their goals. And Andy Cole also never scored more than 20 goals in the PL for United - he was mediocre as well? Same with Raul. Only in 3/16 seasons did he score +20 league goals for RM. That's wank according to you, right? He has to have been crap as well then. The fact is - you watched a good round zero of R9's games for Cruzeiro and most likely also PSV. So what do you get out of stat-finding from seasons you didn't watch yourself? Out of interest how old are you? Because the trend of 1. looking up stats on Transfermarkt, 2. comparing present players with former players, and 3. then downplaying those former players who played in very different times, have become so popular among young fans - it was one of the reasons I deleted Twitter, so I'm just curious if I'm right, in regards to this stat-finding-without-watching-trend belonging to people born after say 2000.
I think he's probably the best teenager in the Premier League since Rooney. Rooney was far more complete at this age, but he was never as accurate as Greenwood is with his striking. I genuinely don't know if I've seen a player who is always that accurate with their finishing. He's still got a lot to learn in terms of positional play and movement, but if he can put all of that together he will be a monster. Even if he doesn't and never progresses, he's already good enough to be a top side player
I noticed how his movement created space for others all game and how the fact he used his right foot 3 times in a row against the right back then made them think twice about him for the last two goals he was involved in. Star power!
Haaland is 15 months older. At the same age as Greenwood is now, he was playing for Salzburg and had previously been at Molde (not Dortmund or Man United). I think having 2 seasons of scoring frequently for United is more impressive than what Haaland had done.
Technically, Greenwood is a lot purer as well.
First of all, I love watching Greenwood when he is in form. He can really be brilliant on his day, like yesterday. For the better part of this season though he’s been a frustrating watch, with a lot of bad decisionmaking, losing possession and looking uninspired. I’m not demanding or expecting Haaland numbers of him, but when people claim he is at least as good as Haaland, I think it‘s ok to reply with a reality check (I only included top division, cup and EL goals for Haaland btw). For attackers and strikers numbers matter. The point is that not every talented teenager is on Mbappe or Haalands level, none are.I mean... mate... they were all teenagers - cut them some slack for not banging in 25 league goals a season as a 16-19-year old
And yes - the Owen goals are total goals scored before 20. And I think the output that you list for him as a teenager is out of this world. Same with a teenage Rooney. A goal every 152 minutes/242 minutes as a teenager is great - and the fact you are trying to downplay that with players like R9, Haaland and Mbappe is fecking dumb. That way, in the next 25 years we'll have... what... three "top talents" as of your standard. And in regards to Haaland... are you... are you counting goals from the Norwegian 3. division? If you are... you should sort yourself out.
I don't get this new fecking trend, that - if a teenager doesn't bang in goals like Mbappe or Haaland at their very age, they cannot be impressive in their own way. Vardy didn't see PL till he was 27 or something. He's been one of the best strikers in the league, the past 5 years.
If you want to watch football through an excel sheet only with stats of G/A - and be all like "they weren't as insane as we remember them" fine, go ahead. By that way of approaching football Ryan Giggs and Luis Figo were mediocre at best, looking at their goals. And Andy Cole also never scored more than 20 goals in the PL for United - he was mediocre as well? Same with Raul. Only in 3/16 seasons did he score +20 league goals for RM. That's wank according to you, right? He has to have been crap as well then. The fact is - you watched a good round zero of R9's games for Cruzeiro and most likely also PSV. So what do you get out of stat-finding from seasons you didn't watch yourself? Out of interest how old are you? Because the trend of 1. looking up stats on Transfermarkt, 2. comparing present players with former players, and 3. then downplaying those former players who played in very different times, have become so popular among young fans - it was one of the reasons I deleted Twitter, so I'm just curious if I'm right, in regards to this stat-finding-without-watching-trend belonging to people born after say 2000.
We now live in a time where people make up their opinions about players from watching highlight videos on youtube, where 99% of footballers can look world class. It is not hard to make a 9 goals a season striker look just as good on youtube as a 40 goals a season striker. To make people who does watch full 90’ understand the difference of quality in these two players we need the numbers. The reason I present the numbers is that without them, it’s often hard to see the difference between a good forward and fantastic forward. I watch all our matches and all of Haalands matches. In general I watch a lot of football. I obviously didn’t watch Ronaldo at Cruzeiro, but I did actually watch a lot of him in PSV, Barca and Inter before his first serious kneeinjury and I still think those 3-4 years is the best I’ve ever seen.
You need an English passport to think Andy Cole was world class. Haaland scored more CL goals in his first 14 matches than Cole did in his entire career. 1 goal for England. He was an important piece in SAF’s winning machinery though. I’ll just pretend I didn’t notice the «same with Raul» part (100+ caps and captain for Spain, 100+ goalcontributions in the CL and captain for Real Madrid). Giggs and Figo - legends, but will never be in any goat conversations.
I‘ve been a Manchester United supporter since 1979, so yeah, I’m old enough to have seen some of the greats live. Played as a striker my entire career myself, and I counted goals, not dribbles or involvements, so that might explain my love for strikers with endproduct and numbers.
I can tell you that I watched every game he played for Salzburg, and no! Greenwood is not more impressive. 28 goals (8 in the CL in 364 minutes!!), 5 hattricks and 7 assists in 1464 minutes (half a season) is on a totally different level, even in Austria. Compare it to Greenwoods 9 goals and 6 assists in 2612 minutes for us this season, and you should come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who does the most beautiful double stepover to backpass....
First bolded part: you were responding to me being impressed by Owens's goal contributions as a teenager. Nowhere have I ever stated or even insinuated Greenwood is better than Haaland - I prefer keeping Greenwood than losing him and getting Haaland but that's a whole different topic. So I don't know where this is coming from with the Haaland comparisons. I sure as hell is not one to watch a YouYube clip and claim I know about a player on the basis of that - so that as well is something I have no clue why is relevant to this debate.
Second bolded part: why pretend that? I myself for sure don't think he was wank. But you just downplayed Owen's output of a goal every 150 some minutes as a teenager in one of the world's toughest leagues. You also gave Owen flack for not scoring more than 20 goals a single time in the PL - is Raúl's 3/16 impressive to you then? Surely he's average compared to the stats of Haaland and Mbappe and that's the metric you go by, isn't it? Raúl was far luckier with injuries than Owen too.
I think it's clear you have an affinity with Haaland. I too love seeing him play. But your way of stat-fecking a football discussion is not for me. I love to admire footballers - especially since I was sooooo crap myself, I tend to be impressed by what these guys put into the sport. Can you downplay every.single.footballer and their abilities and potential if you compare their stats to those of Mbappe, Haaland, or R9? Sure. But to me, that's the most depressing and clinical way of engaging with the sport and it's plain stupid too, because as I said - players grow and develop at different speeds. Look at Henry's stats before coming to Arsenal. Look at Ian Wright and Vardy not playing First Tier football till their mid-to-late twenties. The examples are many - that's why the eye test is important as well with your numbers - and your girlfriend has to have cheated with Mason for a sane person not to admire his talent and output these past two seasons.
You played as a striker in your entire "career"? So you were a pro? So how on God's green earth can you look at Owen's back-to-back 18 Premier League goals between the age of 17-19 and say "average". You really think a goal every 195 minutes from Mason is average - or is it just because you like Haaland better, that you dislike our fans celebrating one of our own academy players, that now has scored five goals and made one assist the past six games?
How is it on a different level, if it was in Austria?
15 goals at United aged roughly 19 and a half is easily worth 28 at the same age in Austria. If Greenwood was to move to Dortmund right now (as Haaland did), with two seasons at United, he’d get numbers similar to Haaland (and he’s better technically, obviously).
Yes, he is overrating him to ridiculous levels.
He's nowhere near teenage Ronaldo or Rooney for that matter, not everything is about stats.
fecking hell what I wouldn't give for a teenage Rooney.
It’s great that you rate our young players, I rate Greenwood too, but I think you’re off here. I might be overrating Haaland, but scoring every 205 minutes for United is not similar to scoring every 50 minutes for Salzburg including CL. If you think Greenwood would have 51 goals and 13 assists in his first 15 months at Dortmund I think you are overrating Greenwood more than a little bit....
Ok, sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. I mostly agree with everything you’re saying here, football is a lot more than numbers and the examples you mention are all good. I don’t think Mason is average, I think he is very good and he is together with Rashy the best talent we’ve got comming through the academy since the early nineties. And none of the players you mentioned was ever average, I was just thinking why bring up examples from the late 90’s of kids banging in almost 20 a season when there are kids out there banging in 40+ a season right now. Maybe I’m overrating Haaland, but I have honestly never seen anyone move, finish and play with a hunger like that before, it really unique.
You didn't offend me at all - it's all good
. I liked the debate and your thoughts on it - despite me not sharing as intense an interest in stats as you.I think it's dangerous and often redundant comparing players from different eras. That's just me. Tactics, positions, styles of play - it all changes. These days a world-class winger is playing a good 20-30 meters longer up the pitch than in the early 2000s. Of course wingers these days are gonna stand out in terms of G/A compared to Giggs, Pires, Figo etc. Same with strikers since these days most teams are playing with a single number 9. That wasn't the case in the 1990s and 2000s for most teams - so the strikers in these teams will have had a striking partner to take a good share of the goals they otherwise would have scored being a lone striker. It's just logic, but logic that stats doesn't take into account.
I don't think the problem is you overrating Haaland, but I do think you will experience a great deal of affinity to a bunch of other talented players in the world if you analyze them independently, and not necessarily judge them on the standards of Mbappe and Haaland. Especially if you're a United fan since Haaland is destined for City
Really excited, it seems he has turned the corner and I don't think he'll have too many other bumps along the way if he stays disciplined. He's so talented and I think Ole has managed him extremely well, credit has to go to the coaching staff, and I do think making the right wing his own with some appearances up front is the way to go for the next couple of years. He's so young and has plenty of time to round off his game so he can be the devastating force he has the potential to be.
He's incredibly skilful and his finishing is world class. Reminds me of RVP 2.0
I’ve never heard him compared to RVP before
He wouldn’t of got those numbers in the PL though and that’s a fact.
Only rooney has done better as a teenager than him and he still has time to over take (and probably will)
It’s not a fair comparison at all. Austrian league and premier league are on a totally different planet from each other in terms of quality.
Thats not to take away haalands talent or achievements, he is incredible. Possible generational talent.. I just don’t think you can compare them.
IMO his best position is RW, he will get lot of shooting chances if he cuts in from right side.
We should sign Sancho and then rotate players. Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood are young and also versatile to play multiple positions. Same with Martial too.
He's in good company so far: only Whiteside, Best, Giggs and Edwards had more United appearances than him as a teenager, and only the first two scored more goals.
20 years ago he would be a ST. He'd play as a two. I'd love to see it sometimes but we don't have proper RM or LM type players.
He isn't a leading the line no.9 though, and I think we hold that against him. He'll be a great RWF.
He isn't a leading the line no.9 though, and I think we hold that against him. He'll be a great RWF.
He is evolving to that right wing very nicely, his all round play seems to have benefitted from this and my word, he can't half put in near perfects crosses of his left foot. Although his finishing is his ace in the hole, I feel he will still get into enough positions to be a danger, as already witnessed recently, add the fact he can go either direction and shoot of either foot, he is perfect for our RW and could be where he develops best.
Yeah, right-footed and left-footed, and as he proved in Iceland, middle-footed as well. Fantastic talent.
Best teenager forward in the world right now. His potential is massive. There's no need to buy Sancho now. Sancho is just a runner on the right who scores mainly easy goals. Greenwood has real technical ability to find space to shoot and score.
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Look I like Greenwood a lot, but come on. You're talking about one of the most creative young players in Europe.
Yeah, no
You are confusing him with Haaland mate.
1. Yes there is, especially if we want to challenge on all fronts.
2. The last thing I would describe Sancho as is a 'runner'. Actually, we'd have two very good options on the right, who have completely different attributes. Greenwood being more of a wide forward, whilst Sancho is more of a wide playmaker. Those tight games where we need to create chances is where Sancho would really up our game.
Leeds United 0:0 Man Utd
How many times he had the ball today to pass it to a player in a better position but he chooses to shot? Frustrating, why the feck he has to shot every fecking ball, ffs pass the fecking ball.
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