If he deemed the Payet penalty to be a non penalty, what's his reasoning for not giving him the second yellow for diving? I'm really interested to know.
Martin Atkinson
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horrible refereeing performance, for a bit there i thought we were playing his beloved Chelsea.
In real time it looks like Schweinsteiger gets knocked off balance by the defender and then hits the keeper
blackmailing his bosses just like our fraud Van Gaal.
He wasn't offside when Randolph and Schweinsteiger came together though. It can only be offside when the ball is played forward by a United player. Schweinsteiger was onside when the cross went in (which went backwards anyway) and he ran towards the goal to attack it. He was ahead of the ball as Martial hooked it in, but the collision had already happened, and the collision happened because Ogbonna(?) blocked Schweinsteiger, which in turn took him in to Randolph.
As Martial hooks it in, the collision has already happened. He's not blocking the goalkeeper then or the flight of the ball. He can't be offside retrospectively. It can only be at the moment the ball is played forwards. There's no interference after Martial's contact.
No foul or offside IMO. If West Ham scored that and had it disallowed, it would have felt like a massive let off.
That's what I thought when I saw the replay. Howard Webb is really starting to grind my gears.
Funny thing is, you could say we got a break on our goal (disallowing it harsh for me but possible) & the pen/dive (haven't seen a good view).
But everything else he was totally 'ammers-favouring dreadful.
But everything else he was totally 'ammers-favouring dreadful.
Yep this morning him Savage Wilkins Ince were all saying Costa should only get 1 game and he didn't bite! Holly feck he head butted Cahill then went to bite him the fact he never carried through with it is irrelevant for me. The fact he initiated it is enough!
Made poor decisions against both clubs.
That's the mark of a poor ref imo.
That's the mark of a poor ref imo.
Did we? Reid put in a two footer in the first minute and only got a yellow. Committed two fouls after that yellow, one of which stopped a meaningful attack, but didn't get a second. Carroll kicked out at Rashford which somehow went against us. Antonio went in with two feet in the 2nd half, I can't remember if it even got a booking. Payet should have had a 2nd yellow for the dive. I don't expect all of those to be given in one game, but that's 4 very possible red cards. I don't think we got off with anything close to that volume of decisions.
As I've said in other posts, I don't think Schweinsteiger fouled the keeper as Ogbonna's block on him pushed him into the goalkeeper. Basti's not even looking where the goalkeeper is. The coming together of the three players has already happened as Martial takes the shot which is only when the offside would count from, and he's not blocking the path of ball or motioning towards it as Martial strikes. No foul or offside for me.
There must have been about 5 corners which incorrectly went against us at both ends as well.
I don't think Schweinsteiger fouled the keeper, more of a collision between the two with neither at fault.
Payet definitely not a pen as Rojo pulled out, just don't think it was a dive either. Seems his trailing leg got caught.
So I think Atkinson got both decisions right, got some others wrong though. Howard Webb I disagree with.
Payet definitely not a pen as Rojo pulled out, just don't think it was a dive either. Seems his trailing leg got caught.
So I think Atkinson got both decisions right, got some others wrong though. Howard Webb I disagree with.
That lingard foul that he didnt give, which lead to Fellainis booking.
The goal kick he gave to them when it was a corner.
The corner he gave when it came off the west ham player.
Im sure there was a 2 footed challenge as well
I dont think hes biased, I just think hes a shit ref that guesses every big decision. He just guesses and hopes. Im convinced ever since he gave Chelsea a goal against Spurs in the FA Cup when he just... guessed.
Hes doing really well to be worse than Mason, Marriner and Dean.
The goal kick he gave to them when it was a corner.
The corner he gave when it came off the west ham player.
Im sure there was a 2 footed challenge as well
I dont think hes biased, I just think hes a shit ref that guesses every big decision. He just guesses and hopes. Im convinced ever since he gave Chelsea a goal against Spurs in the FA Cup when he just... guessed.
Hes doing really well to be worse than Mason, Marriner and Dean.
I dont think he makes decisions based on whether it was a foul or not.
He makes them based on some stupid 'who have i screwed over more' based scale.
Remember that Sunderland vs. Arsenal game up at the Stadium of Light? Where a Sunderland striker (I think Altidore?) was going through on goal and was clearly getting pull backed by an Arsenal defender outside the area, but shrugged it off, faced up the keeper and scored... only for Atkinson to have not bothered allowing an advantage, having already whistled for the Free Kick... and then only booking said Arsenal defender and not sending him off for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity... despite Altidore going on to actually score a goal.
Still do this day one of the monumentally stupid decisions I've ever seen in a top-level match... along with the guessing of said Chelsea goal.
He got a lot wrong and yet still engineered a fair result.
Exactly. No chance Schweini could avoid the goalie. Their defender sent him there.
I dont know how hes hung on to a top flight refereeing spot for so long. I suppose he never makes such a huge error that he can be pulled from the list, but every game is a catalogue of wrong decisions. He seems to spend every game trying to balance out his mistakes, unless hes in charge of one of his favourites. Then hes just biased.
Soon as I saw his face before kickoff, just knew we were up against it in terms of calls. Just a pathetic ref for everyone, not just us.
Unfortunately with Atkinson, when that happens it is based on luck not judgement.
Just saw a repeat telecast today. This guy is pathetic. Wouldn't be able to ref a kid's game.
You'd have a point in saying he should be banned for headbutt but not for a bite as there wasn't any bite. He basically just gave Barry a hickey. Sorry but this isn't attempted murder. If you stop yourself from making a bad tackle should you be sent off for attempting it?
I don't think he is offside. The goalkeeper and the West Ham player over the touch line would possibly be playing him on. It could be a grey area though.
There was also that moment where Noble steemed in through the back of Lingard, which was about as clear a foul as you're likely to see, and he just waved it away... the clown.
Then he added insult to injury by carding Fellaini for the slightest touch on someone's shirt seconds later.
Atkinson has been consistently anti-United for as long as I can remember him refereeing our matches.
Anyone saying that is not a dive from Payet needs to give their head a wobble. Absolutely clear as day and gutless from Atkinson not to send him off. Its either a dive or its a pen - it cannot be neither.
The Noble tackle on Lingard which apparently wasn't even a foul was a clear yellow too.
Does make you question the integrity of people like him when he misses the Noble one, he's standing *right* fecking there ffs.
The Noble tackle on Lingard which apparently wasn't even a foul was a clear yellow too.
Does make you question the integrity of people like him when he misses the Noble one, he's standing *right* fecking there ffs.
Not to defend Atkinson, but to call either decision he has to be certain. I guess he wasn't certain either way, which I suppose is better than his usual guesses on big decisions. Thankfully he didn't guess, as I assume he'd just give the penalty.
To be fair, in real time I thought it was a nailed on penalty and I couldn't believe it wasn't given. The replay showed it was a clear dive, but Webb commented over the top of the replay that the referee got it wrong and it should have been a penalty, which is even more bizarre than Atkinson not calling it either way. There is no contact and Payet is going down before Rojo motions to put a foot in.
Will Payet get a retrospective 2nd yellow since the referee didn't make a decision either way?
You can't be totally certain Payet dives even from the vid - I've watched it a dozen times. I think he probably exaggerates, which is slightly different. It's not the full Benteke for me. And not a penalty either, cos that's doubtful** too. Suppose it must be one or other, though...
**judging that there maybe/probably not enough contact to bring him down
Good decision from Mr Twatkinson,
**judging that there maybe/probably not enough contact to bring him down
Good decision from Mr Twatkinson,
Good to read all these comments and know that I am not being paranoid about Atkinson.
I don't think they can give retrospective yellows, just straight reds.
Can retrospective action be taken on diving though? I remember that Eduardo vs Celtic case rumbling on for ages after it happened.
It was a dive, no question about it. Benteke's wasn't, imo.You can't be totally certain Payet dives even from the vid - I've watched it a dozen times. I think he probably exaggerates, which is slightly different. It's not the full Benteke for me. And not a penalty either, cos that's doubtful** too. Suppose it must be one or other, though...
**judging that there maybe/probably not enough contact to bring him down
Good decision from Mr Twatkinson,
Must be, I'd forgot about that crazy situation.
Depends really how far you go imo. If you make a tackle but pull out but still impede the player or make contact then yes you will get punished. I had my 7 year old son asking why he bit him! What do I say no he never actually but him he stopped short? So that's alright? The intent was clear he should be banned accordingly and I would say the same if was any our players.
You can be sent off/punished for throwing a punch that doesn't connect (pretty sure Scholes was at one point... game against Liverpool I think) so the same should apply for a bite in theory.
I suppose it's easier to identify when someone throws a punch mind you.
Sorry can't take you seriously after arguing for Benteke.
Much easier to realise that all footballers are cheats, just some are better at it than others, rather than fans trying to pretend everyone is dishonest apart from their players.
We have Ashley Young in our team ffs and I don't think anyone's defending him.
There was a few guesses during this game, a few clear corners when the ball came off defenders etc..
I've watched the Payet one a few times and he's definitely dragging his leg to "catch" a touch from the defender. A dive for me, he just did it well so he'll get away with it. Thank God the ref didn't fall for it.
He made multiple poor calls but the decision to not give the second yellow to Payet wasn't that clearcut.
Agree you can be sent off for intent and how anyone can say there was no intent to bite is beyond me!!
You don't have to take me seriously, it's a hard call and I've seen numerous United fans on here agreeing with me in the Matchday thread back then. You can't deny there's contact so that rules out a dive for me, that's just my opinion on it. Whether it was enough to take him down is another thing but it's plain stupid from the defender and absolutely not necessary. He might be pulling back as he slides in but he catches him on his foot.
I'd say the same if it was Martial going down in that position, I said the same about Monreal catching Vardy a couple of weeks ago - stupid from the defender and smart from the striker. I don't defend Liverpool players who dive either, Coutinho certainly knows a thing or two about going down way too easy for example. Different story with Payet yesterday, he went past the defender without any contact but dragged his foot back to have an excuse to go down. It was him and not the defender who initiated the contact therefore a dive and second yellow.
Anyways we could argue all day about it and probably still not agree so..
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Why are we comparing Benteke, who clearly got clipped, to Payet, who equally clearly flinged himself to the ground? Sure, Benteke probably went down easily, but the latter is an indisputable non-penalty and booking.
Not at all, look at the player who tried to block Herrera's cross, he's behind the goal line ffs. It's obviously not offside, and Schweinsteiger hit the keeper because of the body check. It has to stand - still, quite shocking that Atkinson let it stand when he had the chance to engineer a reason to disallow it.