Martial's partner gives birth and the resultant hell from two warring factions

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arnie_ni said:
Still can't understand the uproar. He had a kid ffs. Let him enjoy it for a while
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I kind of see this aspect of the problem. My first kid is due in a month or so and I'm taking a couple of weeks off work to help out and be with the family.

At this point I've planned for this time off for some time and I'm making sure everything is fine at work in my absence. Now, I'm not convinced Martial has this second bit covered. He's in a position where his job is far from secure. He doesn't seem to have planned for time off and his boss (and of course an uncountable number of fans) want him back at work.

It's a tricky call to make and I have empathy for the situation, but I think there is some lack of responsibility here as well.
 
KM said:
I don't care how Mourinho has "treated" him, the club having no clue about his location right now is a shocking lack of professionalism.
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Modric did the same thing back then to force the move to Real Madrid. There is nothing to do with professionalism. He is "professional" to his own career that he can no longer allow himself playing under Mou for another season. He failed to make France's World Cup-winning squad and probably blamed his omission on his lack of game-time under Mourinho last season. Just swap him with Willian FFS.
 
B20 said:
He wants to leave, the club won't let him.

If it were me, I'd damn well be taking my paternity leave.
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Thats unprofessional to say the least. He being paid insane wages at that age and he has the responsibility of turning up until he gets his move.
 
Irish Jet said:
Most are pro-Mourinho on this issue after this recent unforgivable stunt yes and rightfully so – I’m talking throughout his Utd career. Nothing but excuses for inconsistency and blatant lack of effort. This is the Martial thread – It’s about Martial and his case is different to any other player as he’s literally refusing to train. There’s no comparison. Any excuse made for that is disgraceful and is pretty irrelevant to the manager. He’s refusing to show up for the club that pay his wages. He should be fined and sold ASAP – Cancerous behaviour.

Tell me how I revised history in my post – Please explain. Any meltdown wont change my views on Martial – He’s had his chances and not taken them and now he’s sulking in the most unprofessional way possible. Anyone excusing that needs to get a grip.
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He threw away a year of his development because he was splitting with his partner and she was making things up about him. If you are so affected by something like that then you are probably using it as an excuse and don't have the mental toughness to make it at the very elite level.

Pogba who lost his father, a much bigger loss than what Martial had, used it as a platform to grow as a player and he is now a world cup winner (and was one of France's standout players).

It looks like he has had so much smoke blown up his arse by fans, players and friends that he thinks he doesn't need to improve anymore.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Modric did the same thing back then to force the move to Real Madrid. There is nothing to do with professionalism. He is "professional" to his own career that he can no longer allow himself playing under Mou for another season. He failed to make France's World Cup-winning squad and probably blamed his omission on his lack of game-time under Mourinho last season.
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That's such a stupid thing to say. Ofcourse it's unprofessional.

Be professional to yourself--what a ridiculous thing to say even. As far as WC goes, he might have to see a little closer to see why he wasn't picked, his performances under Deschamps at Euro 2016 also played an huge part.

Opposition fans justifying his act of missing the training. Hypocrites as per usual.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Modric did the same thing back then to force the move to Real Madrid. There is nothing to do with professionalism. He is "professional" to his own career that he can no longer allow himself playing under Mou for another season. He failed to make France's World Cup-winning squad and probably blamed his omission on his lack of game-time under Mourinho last season. Just swap him with Willian FFS.
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Blimey thats moronic, "proffesional to his own career". I must try that on the boss :lol:
 
ash_86 said:
Thats unprofessional to say the least. He being paid insane wages at that age and he has the responsibility of turning up until he gets his move.
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Technically he doesn't. He has a right to paternity leave.
 
bonsaiboy said:
I guess the point is that under UK law he's entitled to two weeks of paid (at the statutory minimum) paternity leave. Unless it's written into his contract - and that would not supersede the law - the club could not fine him for not returning to work within that two week period. Semantically though, they could just pay him the minimum £145 per week, which would be tantamount to a large fine.
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He’s entitled so long as he applies for it in advance and states how long he is taking. He isn’t entitled to just do what he wants when he wants.
 
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B20 said:
He wants to leave, the club won't let him.

If it were me, I'd damn well be taking my paternity leave.
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I would assume the club would be willing to let him leave, but for a price they deem correct. Every player has his price, but not every player will have clubs lining up to pay that price. His agent should be working on that, not advising him to miss training. If no one ponies up the cash it hurts Martial more than United.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
He is forcing a move. He already announced his intention to leave 2 months ago, and it is not happening, so he is doing his best to make it happen with only less than a week to go. I don't blame him. I bet he will move to Chelsea to play as one of the front 3 striker for Sarri.
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With Willian coming the other way?
 
It's a strange one, Martial seems to also have a bit of a following from non united fans. I've heard so many oppo fans wax lyrical about his talent and that he should come to their club.

Pogba seems to have the opposite effect, he can match Martial's talent and is arguably more talented yet oppo fans constantly criticise him despite him being a clearly better player over their respective careers.
 
For paternity leave, according to UK govt.

The father must tell the employer at least fifteen weeks before the baby is born, when they want the leave to start.

I'm guessing Martial only told Mourinho(considering he was obviously counting him to be there whole preseason and therefore said he'll start in the first match) two days before the baby is born that he's going, so please stop this nonsense about paternity leave.
 
breakout67 said:
It's a strange one, Martial seems to also have a bit of a following from non united fans. I've heard so many oppo fans wax lyrical about his talent and that he should come to their club.

Pogba seems to have the opposite effect, he can match Martial's talent and is arguably more talented yet oppo fans constantly criticise him despite him being a clearly better player over their respective careers.
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Because Martial is just simply another KDB and Salah under Mou, and your board probably knows it.
 
KM said:
I'm guessing Martial only told Mourinho(considering he was obviously counting him to be there whole preseason and therefore said he'll start in the first match) two days before the baby is born that he's going, so please stop this nonsense about paternity leave.
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I guess I was making the assumption that he and his advisors aren't complete morons, so would have followed due process regarding his paternity leave.
 
JPRouve said:
Who told you that he didn't contact the club, as far as I can see Mourinho said that he doesn't know if he will be back when they return, nothing else. We are creating theories based on the sentence "I don't know.". Maybe he went AWOL, maybe he hasn't, that information hasn't been shared by the club.
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Common sense - if he contacted the club, the Mourinho would know, the press secretary would know. When some players were cutting short their holidays short, that information was disseminated. Perhaps it's some big conspiracy by the club, he contacted them but, they are holding it back because it's some evil plan by the Glazers, Woodward and Mourinho to make Martial look bad.
 
bonsaiboy said:
I guess I was making the assumption that he and his advisors aren't complete morons, so would have followed due process regarding his paternity leave.
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Jose said in his first press conference that his starting attack for the Leicester match would be Martial Mata Sanchez. Do you think he'd have said it if he had known that Martial will miss half of the US pre season tour?
 
Well Mourinho is very media savvy. He wanted Martial sold since last year, but the board wouldn't let him. So he is giving vague statements that he doesn't know where Martial is or when he is coming back, like martial went into another dimension and is not contactable via phone or email. If he is AWOL just say it as it is, not vague bullshit which is essentially lying. Most players go AWOL now when they are looking for a transfer, it doesn't change their price tag.
 
Oldyella said:
No club writes off 60m plus to teach someone a lesson.

Do find it amusing we have people in the Jose thread saying the press are just digging up dirt for clicks and it's all bollocks, but are happy to take any criticism of Martial as gospel.

It appears he has no interest in playing for Jose, but just as with KDB at Chelsea, Jose has slowly set the fans against him with vague problems about mentality and professionalism etc.

The board need to decide what they want, if they are backing Jose back him and sell Martial. If they have doubts about selling him, tell Jose so, and if he has his meltdown so be it. They either trust him or they don't.
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Great post. The second line is spot on.

The Martial debate has become a referendum on Jose himself, hence why it's proving so toxic among the fans. Do we ignore the potential long-term damage he's causing in the belief that, given his track record, he'll win us trophies? Or do we conclude that the price is not worth paying and give him the boot?

What's interesting is that all the stories coming out of the club suggest the board are reluctant to sell Martial. Even now they seem to be holding out for a high price and a foreign club. Doesn't suggest they trust him much, does it?
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Well Mourinho is very media savvy. He wanted Martial sold since last year, but the board wouldn't let him. So he is giving vague statements that he doesn't know where Martial is or when he is coming back, like martial went into another dimension and is not contactable via phone or email. If he is AWOL just say it as it is, not vague bullshit which is essentially lying. Most players go AWOL now when they are looking for a transfer, it doesn't change their price tag.
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The club would brief journo's that, that isn't the case if so.

Handsome Devil said:
For all we know, Martial might have tried to contact the club by fax but it broke. These things can happen. :wenger:
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:lol:
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Well Mourinho is very media savvy. He wanted Martial sold since last year, but the board wouldn't let him. So he is giving vague statements that he doesn't know where Martial is or when he is coming back, like martial went into another dimension and is not contactable via phone or email. If he is AWOL just say it as it is, not vague bullshit which is essentially lying. Most players go AWOL now when they are looking for a transfer, it doesn't change their price tag.
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If he doesn't know where he is or when he's coming back he's telling you he's AWOL.
 
Shimo said:
Common sense - if he contacted the club, the Mourinho would know, the press secretary would know. When some players were cutting short their holidays short, that information was disseminated. Perhaps it's some big conspiracy by the club, he contacted them but, they are holding it back because it's some evil plan by the Glazers, Woodward and Mourinho to make Martial look bad.
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That's not common sense but a simple assumption. And you need to take into account the question, he was asked whether Martial would be there when they get back, if it's a day to day situation then he won't know at the time when he was asked. The reality is that we fans have no idea because almost no information has been shared. Things don't have to be either a conspiracy by the club and Mourinho or a lambasting of a player, particularly when we know nothing.
 
JohnnyKills said:
What's interesting is that all the stories coming out of the club suggest the board are reluctant to sell Martial. Even now they seem to be holding out for a high price and a foreign club. Doesn't suggest they trust him much, does it?
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It suggests that the board are properly valuing a perceived high price asset and won't sell Martial for cheap in a market where Richarlison gets sold for 50m. Mourinho also isn't demanding they sell Martial for a pittance. The board and Jose are willing to sell him if a club meets their valuation.

You can back the manager without selling a player he wants rid of for lower than their value.
 
Nick7 said:
Martial has played a hell of a lot more under Mourinho than either of those.
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And neither of those showed signs of unprofessionalism, which seems to be the case with Martial.

I always find it funny that people give stick to Mourinho about KDB, Salah and Lukaku. He didn't treat any of them badly and has a good relationship with them. He even bought Lukaku "back" for the highest fee paid in the EPL for a striker.

However talented they were at the time the fact remains that they weren't ready to play week-in, week-out for a club that was challenging for the title and Mourinho had good players ahead of them. It was best for them to take a step down to a less ambitious club to prove themselves and Mourinho never stood in their way. They also made a profit on them, Chelsea.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Because Martial is just simply another KDB and Salah under Mou, and your board probably knows it.
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How is that even relevant to what I said? So is Pogba not another KdB or Salah since there are many reports linking him away form a move. Guardiola even confirmed that Pogba's agent was trying to offload him!

Despite this, Pogba still gets the handle from oppo fans of being overrated and a flop.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Great post. The second line is spot on.

The Martial debate has become a referendum on Jose himself, hence why it's proving so toxic among the fans. Do we ignore the potential long-term damage he's causing in the belief that, given his track record, he'll win us trophies? Or do we conclude that the price is not worth paying and give him the boot?

What's interesting is that all the stories coming out of the club suggest the board are reluctant to sell Martial. Even now they seem to be holding out for a high price and a foreign club. Doesn't suggest they trust him much, does it?
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What ridiculous logic.

What club wouldn't want to sell a valuable asset to an indirect rival for a market-appropriate fee, as opposed to a direct rival for a loss?
 
Just sell him already, he clearly does not want to be in the team and he has not proveed that he will be top class, so why bother? Sure he has showed glimpses of potential, but he has been in the team for 3 years now and have not established as a member of the start XI. I’ve said it multiple times, in top teams you dont get as much chances, just see Dembele at Barca. One season and he is almost out the team, would Martial had stayed in Madrid or Barca this much time with the level showned? And furthermore would his attitude be tolerated?

We need to start behaving as a big club again, this is just ridiculous.
 
breakout67 said:
It's a strange one, Martial seems to also have a bit of a following from non united fans. I've heard so many oppo fans wax lyrical about his talent and that he should come to their club.

Pogba seems to have the opposite effect, he can match Martial's talent and is arguably more talented yet oppo fans constantly criticise him despite him being a clearly better player over their respective careers.
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A bit of following from the same people who say Hazard is better than Ronaldo. Those who watch clips of Martial’s footwork and think that is the only thing football requires.

Martial isn’t that good. He’s not Mbappe! Managers can give ultra-talented players some special privileges but Martial doesn’t even belong in this echelon of prodigious talents.

The earlier we get rid of the virus, the better....
 
MadMike said:
And neither of those showed signs of unprofessionalism, which seems to be the case with Martial.

I always find it funny that people give stick to Mourinho about KDB, Salah and Lukaku. He didn't treat any of them badly and has a good relationship with them. He even bought Lukaku "back" for the highest fee paid in the EPL for a striker.

However talented they were at the time the fact remains that they weren't ready to play week-in, week-out for a club that was challenging for the title and Mourinho had good players ahead of them. It was best for them to take a step down to a less ambitious club to prove themselves and Mourinho never stood in their way. They also made a profit on them, Chelsea.
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True. We also shouldn't forget, this isn't the first time Martial has wanted away it seems. There's been rumours every summer since he joined. Yeah he got onto twitter to say they were false, but after all this I'm starting to think there was something there.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Martial doesn't have what KDB has and never will. You can't train that desire and work ethic.
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Actually, one of the criticism regarding KDB was that he wasn't intense on the training pitch, like Hazard was supposed to be.
 
JPRouve said:
Actually, one of the criticism regarding KDB was that he wasn't intense on the training pitch, like Hazard was supposed to be.
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Funny enough,I remember Mourinho attempted to turn the fanbase against Hazard on his way out as well :lol:
 
This is getting ridiculous. I really want him to succeed with us but as many here said already it's beginning to look like Jose vs a player. No middle ground.

Personally I can understand Martial wanted to be with his newborn baby. And on Jose's side maybe just maybe knowing Martial wants the move, makes him worried about hence the dig etc. From PR perspective, both won't communicate with each other now.

I'm not a fan of players power at the club tbh. Although I agree with the sentiment which Jose can be a jerk sometimes, I want the club to back Jose 100% or sack him. If he wants to sell Martial then sell.

Yeah I know, we might someday regret selling Martial. It is what it is. This is the situation we are in.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Martial doesn't have what KDB has and never will. You can't train that desire and work ethic.
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KDB is probably the most hardworking player in the league. He treats every game like a battle for his own survival. He never hides, he wants the ball - he runs back and forth on the pitch, no dull moment.
 
MadMike said:
And neither of those showed signs of unprofessionalism, which seems to be the case with Martial.

I always find it funny that people give stick to Mourinho about KDB, Salah and Lukaku. He didn't treat any of them badly and has a good relationship with them. He even bought Lukaku "back" for the highest fee paid in the EPL for a striker.

However talented they were at the time the fact remains that they weren't ready to play week-in, week-out for a club that was challenging for the title and Mourinho had good players ahead of them. It was best for them to take a step down to a less ambitious club to prove themselves and Mourinho never stood in their way. They also made a profit on them, Chelsea.
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It's not about Mourinho treating any of these guys badly - it's about mis managing them to the point that they were unable to play to their best ability or more commonly best positions.

Lukaku was forced to play target man type football at Chelsea under Jose due to his physical assets & struggled to do so. Was considered a better option at RW. Was said to have poor mentality & was sold.

De Bryune was not allowed to play CAM because he apparently lacked the work rate to play in such a position & was made to again play as a wide midfielder instead - eventually being played in a position he was not good in. Sold & in comparison to players like Oscar - carried the definition of being a lazy player.

Salah no consistency in game ratio & was predominantly on the subs - being replaced without having the ability to build any form. Struggled with the need for consistent defensive input on the side he played in comparison to the the opposing side where Eden Hazard was more free.

It's not all about Jose treating them badly - it's about not giving them good management.

Martial came to United as a striker - covered for Memphis being poor as a LW. So that is one example of him adapting his game for the benefit of the team. Jose comes in & changes his strikers number to Number 11 - a wingers number which is a direct correspondence of what happened to his role here at United - Like de bryune & Lukaku; got permanently moved to a role he doesn't feel the best in. Just like De bryune he ' begs to get out' of here now. He adapts to LW but then is replaced by another LW - one who is favoured over him.

Why should he wait & play 3rd position striker & 2nd LW - he is better than that. He has absolutely no experience as a RW & I bet he just wants to play as a striker again - the same way de bryune & Lukaku wanted to play football the way they loved or like Salah - just an opportunity to play football without being dropped - a chance to build form.


Whilst alot of fans will call martial lazy & say his shirt number swap was just a number - he actually attempted to change his role as well as his shirt number was a direct representation of mismanagement by Jose mourinho. The same as he has done with other players with good ability.
 
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