Martial, media and fan bias. 50 million down the drain

erikcred said:
Van Gaal literally said Martial was bought not for him, but for the next Utd manager - Giggs.

It's like a deluge of stupid decisions from everyone involved.





I've no idea what the heck is happening in this part of the post, but he's 28 and he reached his ceiling 3 years ago. He's been putting in I-don't-care-very-much performances longer than Rashford. Plus Rashford had an excellent season recently. That's the only reason why Martial is some kind of barometer of laziness at the moment. It could easily turn to Rashford next.

Maguire's been getting far more stick than them despite trying his best simply because he's shit. That's not even his fault.
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Come on man, that just means Martial was bought for the future not now. Managers say this all the time not to put pressure on young players plus LvG only had a 3yr contract and was planning on retiring after that. Not that he didn't want Martial.

For the 2nd part, I'm talking about his first 5 seasons here where he was still classed as a young player with potential and his performances and stats showed why he was given the 5-year contract with the expectation to kick on. So It's ok to be disappointed that things didn't turn out as expected. I'm just coming against most people reacting as though we purchased this current Martial at his current age of 27 while pretending he's been shit for us the whole 8 seasons. He's barely played the last 3 years due to becoming injury-prone in what should have been his peak years, yet he's being cited as a leading cause of this club's problems in the press because he doesn't run.
 
King7Eric said:
I don't think Martial has performed "slightly worse" than other players of similar talents. He's had a shockingly low level of output. Of course, playing in a better team will increase your output but that's not the point I'm making at all.

Look at Bruno as an example. I've said it multiple times on here, going as far back as the 20/21 season that we won't win titles with Bruno as our focal point because it limits us tactically. But, even I can't fault his output. There is a reason every manager has made him the focal point of our play because he delivers and puts in the effort. Whether his style of play is conducive to long term success of the team is a different discussion, but no one can fault his attitude to come out and establish himself as the main man.

Martial has been here way longer than Bruno and just lurked around in the shadows, never displaying that mettle to become the main man.

Hell, look at Ronaldo. Another player I'm no fan off, but he came at 36 and scored 24 goals in a totally disjointed team. He made sure he did his part. That's not too much to ask of any player. If people are making excuses for why players can't do their part to their utmost best, then those people are part of the problem as well.

You make the point about Bellingham. If he ever joined us, given how focused and motivated he appears to be, I think he would have made a similar impact like Bruno. It might not have been enough to make us title winners, but we wouldn't be discussing him in the same vein as Martial, Sancho or Pogba.
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Your point was it's an individual's sole responsibility to fulfill their full potential; which is factually untrue in life let alone football. I only said slightly worse players since I was talking about potential and you can't quantify potential. There's a thread on this forum asking if Neymar has fulfilled his potential even though Neymar has achieved more with his potential than Martial and Rashford combined. The journey from potential to outcome is subjective and non-linear.

I used the NFL as an example as they have a quasi-objective model for measuring player potential: the draft. By and large, the better players will get drafted high but it's often to the worst teams, with worse coaches and losing cultures. The research shows the majority of these highly drafted players aren't able to overcome their environments except for 1 in a few generational talents. The same principle applies in football. Some players like Bruno and, Ronaldo, etc can overcome their environments and perform but they are the exceptions, not the norm. Truth is Man United, post Fergie, has not created an environment where players can meet or even supersede their potential. Name me one player we've signed in the last decade who's been a bonafide success throughout their time with the club.

So the evidence points to the likelihood of Bellingham joining the long list of highly talented young players who have failed to reach their true potential at the club. Stands to reason Pogba, Martial, and even Sancho could have better maximized their potential had they not joined Manchester United because even supposedly mentally weak players can still thrive given the right environment. Look no further than Nani under Fergie. For every Ronaldo, there's a Nani and for every Nani, there's a Quaresma and for every Quaresma, there's a Fabio Paim.

You can't excuse the club in this: they have failed players as much as we can blame players for not performing. Too many players have failed here for it to be blamed on the players not having the "right mentality".
 
Whilst I acknowledge Rashford has been given a free pass by the media for too long, I don't see how that excuses Martial's own disgusting level of commitment?

To my mind, Martial's is potentially worse, since he actually had talent. He was potentially world-class at 19 and threw it away. Rashford was always a bog-standard winger with a bit of pace, talked up beyond his abilities by a club desperate for good news stories.
 
Both are just examples of poor valuation of players. Neither are good enough and never were, we focus on the wrong things.
 
statpadder said:
Spot on. The amount of flak Martial gets especially when he’s been one of our better players this season is ridiculous and tiresome.

We have played worse without him and if anyone needed to know where our problems lie, just look at Hoijland struggling as well. He runs a lot right?
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He gets flack because he fails to do the bare minimum from a number 9. Not only does he not put in the effort to win possession back, he's also a mannequin inside the box. I've seen better movement from Championship strikers.
 
steve zizou said:
Your point was it's an individual's sole responsibility to fulfill their full potential; which is factually untrue in life let alone football. I only said slightly worse players since I was talking about potential and you can't quantify potential. There's a thread on this forum asking if Neymar has fulfilled his potential even though Neymar has achieved more with his potential than Martial and Rashford combined. The journey from potential to outcome is subjective and non-linear.

I used the NFL as an example as they have a quasi-objective model for measuring player potential: the draft. By and large, the better players will get drafted high but it's often to the worst teams, with worse coaches and losing cultures. The research shows the majority of these highly drafted players aren't able to overcome their environments except for 1 in a few generational talents. The same principle applies in football. Some players like Bruno and, Ronaldo, etc can overcome their environments and perform but they are the exceptions, not the norm. Truth is Man United, post Fergie, has not created an environment where players can meet or even supersede their potential. Name me one player we've signed in the last decade who's been a bonafide success throughout their time with the club.

So the evidence points to the likelihood of Bellingham joining the long list of highly talented young players who have failed to reach their true potential at the club. Stands to reason Pogba, Martial, and even Sancho could have better maximized their potential had they not joined Manchester United because even supposedly mentally weak players can still thrive given the right environment. Look no further than Nani under Fergie. For every Ronaldo, there's a Nani and for every Nani, there's a Quaresma and for every Quaresma, there's a Fabio Paim.

You can't excuse the club in this: they have failed players as much as we can blame players for not performing. Too many players have failed here for it to be blamed on the players not having the "right mentality".
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Pretty convincing, but how do you explain that Martial failed similarly with France and Sevilla ?
 
Could make a couple of threads like this for players. He’s done more than Sancho and Anthony that’s for sure.
 
steve zizou said:
Your point was it's an individual's sole responsibility to fulfill their full potential; which is factually untrue in life let alone football. I only said slightly worse players since I was talking about potential and you can't quantify potential. There's a thread on this forum asking if Neymar has fulfilled his potential even though Neymar has achieved more with his potential than Martial and Rashford combined. The journey from potential to outcome is subjective and non-linear.

I used the NFL as an example as they have a quasi-objective model for measuring player potential: the draft. By and large, the better players will get drafted high but it's often to the worst teams, with worse coaches and losing cultures. The research shows the majority of these highly drafted players aren't able to overcome their environments except for 1 in a few generational talents. The same principle applies in football. Some players like Bruno and, Ronaldo, etc can overcome their environments and perform but they are the exceptions, not the norm. Truth is Man United, post Fergie, has not created an environment where players can meet or even supersede their potential. Name me one player we've signed in the last decade who's been a bonafide success throughout their time with the club.

So the evidence points to the likelihood of Bellingham joining the long list of highly talented young players who have failed to reach their true potential at the club. Stands to reason Pogba, Martial, and even Sancho could have better maximized their potential had they not joined Manchester United because even supposedly mentally weak players can still thrive given the right environment. Look no further than Nani under Fergie. For every Ronaldo, there's a Nani and for every Nani, there's a Quaresma and for every Quaresma, there's a Fabio Paim.

You can't excuse the club in this: they have failed players as much as we can blame players for not performing. Too many players have failed here for it to be blamed on the players not having the "right mentality".
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Don't you see how you are proving exactly what I'm saying with examples like Nani and Quaresma? Anyway your post is another example of a long list of excuses we use to exonerate our playing and coaching staff. So I'll leave you to it. If you think it's factually untrue that everyone is responsible for the success and failure of their own career then there's no point of a further debate.
 
Martial is, in a way, a french eden hazard. I'd let him go in his final year. Take the inevitable hit. Nobody wants him, and quite rightly so. It's an impossible gamble. Should have sold him a few seasons back.
 
statpadder said:
Spot on. The amount of flak Martial gets especially when he’s been one of our better players this season is ridiculous and tiresome.

We have played worse without him and if anyone needed to know where our problems lie, just look at Hoijland struggling as well. He runs a lot right?
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Why is it ridiculous and tiresome? Imagine what he could do if he put some effort in, it's not like he's banging in goals and creating chances, Martial has the talent, he just can't be arsed half the time, that's why he gets flak
 
Such a weird player to make a massive ranting defence of.

I wouldn't say he's symbolic of what's wrong at United, but he is a nothing of a player. A game can pass where Martial plays and he won't make a single positive contribution, and it will not even be a surprise. That isn't a good thing.

It also has nothing to do with him not fitting some culturally accepted profile of player. If he sauntered about but banged 30 goals in a season he'd be quite accepted I suspect. Spending entire games half arsedly doing nothing at all is not compatible with any style of play or expectancy of a player.

He's shown he can be very good WHEN he's motivated to be. He's also shown that he is completely useless when he isn't, which happens to be most of the time. Its not like he just isn't quite as good, he will do quite literally nothing.

The reason Rashford has taken longer to get criticised (which frankly, isn't even true, he constantly gets slaughtered on here and has done for years), is because in 3 of the previous 4 seasons he has scored goals very consistently and mostly performed well, and even when not playing well has not offered nothing. Before this season he had one bad season in four to Martial’s three bad seasons in four.

I'm not sure why Rashford is relevant to Martial other than some bizarre need people have to take sides with one or the other. It makes absolutely no sense since they play in different positions and Martial’s best form has generally been when playing WITH Rashford, but in any case Rashford has also run out of leeway now and the lazy tracking back, arm waving etc. will get the response it deserves, especially given his selfishness and lack of final product in possession.

The ironic thing about trying to claim Martial gets criticised because English fans are somehow stupid and biased towards hard working players, and then complaining about Rashford for some reason, is that of the two, Rashford is the one who gets criticised for his lack of work rate, and Martial is the one with enough technical ability that he probably wouldn't get criticised for it if he actually did anything at all.
 
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I just want to go back to his second game against Southampton. What a cool, slotted finish both those goals were. Shame it's turned out the way it has.
 
kclord said:
I just want to go back to his second game against Southampton. What a cool, slotted finish both those goals were. Shame it's turned out the way it has.
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Inevitable with his attitude. He could have Ronaldo or Messi’s talent and he’d still be shit because he doesn’t care about his performances
 
King7Eric said:
Don't you see how you are proving exactly what I'm saying with examples like Nani and Quaresma? Anyway your post is another example of a long list of excuses we use to exonerate our playing and coaching staff. So I'll leave you to it. If you think it's factually untrue that everyone is responsible for the success and failure of their own career then there's no point of a further debate.
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Nope, I'm not proving your point. This was your original point:
King7Eric said:
It is not the club's or the manager's responsibility to make sure a player achieves his full potential. It is solely the player's responsibility.
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My argument against this is not even purely in favor of Martial but in general. in that to fully achieve one's potential in football (and life) doesn't just take talent and hard work. This idea that you can simply make if you work hard enough is just nonsense. You need the opportunity and this comes in the form of the environment in which you get to form and develop your talent. Where is the player coming from (country, family, socio-economic status), and what country they are playing their football in? Who are his teammates, what's the prevailing culture at the club, and who is the manager? What style of football does the manager play and many other environmental factors. The role of a football club is to create environments for players to maximize their potential and if the players succeed then the club also succeeds. That's why you hire, coaches and physios and psychologists and data analysts and football managers. If you are sincerely dismissing these as factors then I guess there's no further debate indeed.
 
George Owen said:
Hilarious. Martial is a nothing player, always has been.

edit. Shaw, Martial and Rashford... the day these 3 overpaid unprofessional toxic players leave, United might become great again.
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100 Per this. I will add Bruno in the list. I always tell people our best players when it comes to goals scoring output are the most culprit why we play without structure or control. difficult to drop them now but if we want to progress as a team, it has to get worse first. dropping these players will not make us a better team now, rather worse but will give the transition period a better palatiform to succeed
 
I noticed earlier that Michail Antonio signed for West Ham the same summer that Martial came here and that both have scored exactly 63 league goals in that time. Antonio's played a few more games (1 goal every 3.8 appearances vs 1 every 3.3), but then he's done it for a lesser team so there's not much difference in their output at all.

Funnily enough, he is now a 33 year-old winding down his career.

Would anyone think Antonio has been a United calibre player who we should have been in for? I wouldn't, but I actually like him, he tries hard. :lol: Only cost £7m too.
 
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steve zizou said:
Nope, I'm not proving your point. This was your original point:

My argument against this is not even purely in favor of Martial but in general. in that to fully achieve one's potential in football (and life) doesn't just take talent and hard work. This idea that you can simply make if you work hard enough is just nonsense. You need the opportunity and this comes in the form of the environment in which you get to form and develop your talent. Where is the player coming from (country, family, socio-economic status), and what country they are playing their football in? Who are his teammates, what's the prevailing culture at the club, and who is the manager? What style of football does the manager play and many other environmental factors. The role of a football club is to create environments for players to maximize their potential and if the players succeed then the club also succeeds. That's why you hire, coaches and physios and psychologists and data analysts and football managers. If you are sincerely dismissing these as factors then I guess there's no further debate indeed.
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Alright.
 
Lentwood said:
Whilst I acknowledge Rashford has been given a free pass by the media for too long, I don't see how that excuses Martial's own disgusting level of commitment?

To my mind, Martial's is potentially worse, since he actually had talent. He was potentially world-class at 19 and threw it away. Rashford was always a bog-standard winger with a bit of pace, talked up beyond his abilities by a club desperate for good news stories.
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Martial has been talked about as a lazy, gormless Frenchman for three or four years now. I'm sure there are a few staunch defenders but he's recieved plenty of criticism and the vast majority of United fans want him gone.

I'm not sure what that has to do with Rashford, who is obviously downing tools for the second time in three seasons. I hope you'd agree that being less useless than Martial isn't the criteria we should be looking for here.
 
(...) said:
Pretty convincing, but how do you explain that Martial failed similarly with France and Sevilla ?
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The circumstances with France and Sevilla are more derived from his time here rather than anything separate. Martial played in the Euro 2016 final for France after his 1st season with us so he was highly regarded there too. He lost his place during Jose's time and France is not exactly lacking in options in the wide forward area. He was injured almost the whole time he was in Sevilla so his time was just a continuation of his United form.

noodlehair said:
Such a weird player to make a massive ranting defence of.

I wouldn't say he's symbolic of what's wrong at United, but he is a nothing of a player. A game can pass where Martial plays and he won't make a single positive contribution, and it will not even be a surprise. That isn't a good thing.

It also has nothing to do with him not fitting some culturally accepted profile of player. If he sauntered about but banged 30 goals in a season he'd be quite accepted I suspect. Spending entire games half arsedly doing nothing at all is not compatible with any style of play or expectancy of a player.

He's shown he can be very good WHEN he's motivated to be. He's also shown that he is completely useless when he isn't, which happens to be most of the time. Its not like he just isn't quite as good, he will do quite literally nothing.

The reason Rashford has taken longer to get criticised (which frankly, isn't even true, he constantly gets slaughtered on here and has done for years), is because in 3 of the previous 4 seasons he has scored goals very consistently and mostly performed well, and even when not playing well has not offered nothing. Before this season he had one bad season in four to Martial’s three bad seasons in four.

I'm not sure why Rashford is relevant to Martial other than some bizarre need people have to take sides with one or the other. It makes absolutely no sense since they play in different positions and Martial’s best form has generally been when playing WITH Rashford, but in any case Rashford has also run out of leeway now and the lazy tracking back, arm waving etc. will get the response it deserves, especially given his selfishness and lack of final product in possession.

The ironic thing about trying to claim Martial gets criticised because English fans are somehow stupid and biased towards hard working players, and then complaining about Rashford for some reason, is that of the two, Rashford is the one who gets criticised for his lack of work rate, and Martial is the one with enough technical ability that he probably wouldn't get criticised for it if he actually did anything at all.
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I don't know where I was ranting tbh but anyway, I agree Rashford gets more flack on here than Martial given their relative outputs but not on the same level in the media and never specifically cited by multiple pundits and journalists as the individual symbolic of why the club is where it is. It was like they were all briefed after the game against Newcastle. How can Martial, a player who has played like 50 ish games in the last 3 years due to recurring injury problems suddenly be on everyone's lips as the symbol of our failures? We could have gotten rid of him 3 years ago and we'd still be where we are.

Also, this is not, particularly in defense of Martial, neither is it a Rashford deserves more attack. Narratives get formed by the media and fans about certain players and these players quickly become the scapegoats for negative stories. It used to be you can't go anywhere with Pogba in midfield until he left, then it was Fred and Fred left. Martial will leave in the summer and we'll just move on to the next most unlikeable player until it's Kobbie Mainoo turn.
 
King7Eric said:
It is not the club's or the manager's responsibility to make sure a player achieves his full potential. It is solely the player's responsibility.
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And that's precisely why top rated young players aren't touching us now or for the foreseeable future.
 
BelfastRed2021 said:
Just look at Klopp, Arteta, Guardiola all took couple seasons to get going look at their squads no players in it from previous managers relatively quickly maybe 1 or 2 seasons at most before being replaced and they are now at the stage where they are selling players they have signed who havent been good enough if they are crap they are out and replaced at UTD we still have players here under 4 managers and after 8 years its a disaster and aslong as these idiot players remain we will never go anywhere. Also it helps having the proper structure in place we cant sell anyone because of the ridiculous fees and wages we have forked out the cub is rotten from top to bottom and the manager is again bearing to much of a brunt as for last season several clubs underperformed and our league position was vastly inflated.
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Spot on
 
steve zizou said:
The circumstances with France and Sevilla are more derived from his time here rather than anything separate. Martial played in the Euro 2016 final for France after his 1st season with us so he was highly regarded there too. He lost his place during Jose's time and France is not exactly lacking in options in the wide forward area. He was injured almost the whole time he was in Sevilla so his time was just a continuation of his United form.


I don't know where I was ranting tbh but anyway, I agree Rashford gets more flack on here than Martial given their relative outputs but not on the same level in the media and never specifically cited by multiple pundits and journalists as the individual symbolic of why the club is where it is. It was like they were all briefed after the game against Newcastle. How can Martial, a player who has played like 50 ish games in the last 3 years due to recurring injury problems suddenly be on everyone's lips as the symbol of our failures? We could have gotten rid of him 3 years ago and we'd still be where we are.

Also, this is not, particularly in defense of Martial, neither is it a Rashford deserves more attack. Narratives get formed by the media and fans about certain players and these players quickly become the scapegoats for negative stories. It used to be you can't go anywhere with Pogba in midfield until he left, then it was Fred and Fred left. Martial will leave in the summer and we'll just move on to the next most unlikeable player until it's Kobbie Mainoo turn.
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It's not a brief its because it's what you expect from Martial because it has become his general level of performance, and it's so far below the level you'd expect of a player at any top club that it actually is quite astounding. I don't think it's wrong for pundits to point out how baffling this is.

There is a point in there about scapegoats I just find it odd to draw the line at Martial because the criticism he gets is actually very much warranted. The only sticking point is that it's become so normal of him it's actually on the manager for expecting anything different.

It must be quite mind boggling for ex professionals watching our games to see him meandering about while the team is struggling to match the intensity of the opposition, because for someone like Keane in particular the team they played in this would be tolerated for less than 5 minutes.
 
Chipper said:
I noticed earlier that Michail Antonio signed for West Ham the same summer that Martial came here and that both have scored exactly 63 league goals in that time. Antonio's played a few more games (1 goal every 3.8 appearances vs 1 every 3.3), but then he's done it for a lesser team so there's not much difference in their output at all.

Funnily enough, he is now a 33 year-old winding down his career.

Would anyone think Antonio has been a United calibre player who we should have been in for? I wouldn't, but I actually like him, he tries hard. :lol: Only cost £7m too.
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Antonio was signed RW/RB too.
 
There's nothing wrong with Martial's application to my eye. There have been plenty of times before, but he just looks like he just can't physically do it. That clip of him chasing Schar doesn't look great for him, but that's literally as fast as he moves these days, and he was the only player attempting some kind of pressure, bad as it was.

Unfortunately, he hasn't really added much to his game in all these years either. He tends to do the same things over and over. He always tries to turn 90 degrees onto his right foot when his back is to goal, he always tries to open up his body for a side footer when facing goal, and he always does the "clever" striker thing of hanging back by the penalty spot rather than attacking the six yard box when the cross is on. Now all of these things can work a few times a game if he's really on song, but it's been years since that's been the case. He strikes me as somebody a defender would like to play against.

He's still got plenty of ability, and our attack demonstrably works better with him in it, but that's hardly saying much since he's the only striker in the squad with any kind of experience.
 
No manager could overcome easily the disfunction emanating from the management at Utd over the Glazer years. Teflon Ed under the supervision of the American idiots, extending players to retain their value on the balance sheet not because they were needed and the Disneyland reference coupled with signings that were used for what looked like clickbait bite hard.

The Woodward years moved the club from a successful base to what seems an iceberg moving to the Equator..Even if ETH is not the saviour , he certainly has not been helped by the failure to move so many unwanted players, thereby keeping the squad unbalanced and bloated with not a lot of room for younger players to come into the squad to learn and grow.

Citeh reinvented themselves not only with oil money but a progressive structure that moved players on and replaced them with new signings as they built the team to reflect style of the manager. With the Glazers knowing nothing about football, but having favourite players like Martial who they didn’t want to sell, just increased the disaster.

New owners, new management structure and a willingness to build a team with sensible direction, may be a dream, currently the situation is a nightmare.
 
Martial is one of the worst forwards we’ve ever had in three decades and somehow been at the club among the longest :lol:

He offers absolutely nothing for the past 3 years and is one of the most overrated players in the history of the game.

He never was a regular for his national team which tells you everything you need to know. A main United striker who can’t get into a national side (even France) is embarrassing given his wages and shows our Europa league level.
 
The Purley King said:
Erm……… martial is probably second on the all time injured list after Phil Jones!
Also whilst Anderson might have been blowing after 60 minutes at least he demonstrated some effort when he was on the pitch. Martial plays like he’s on a cigarette break.
Give me Anderson every day of the week and twice on Sundays
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Martial's been player of the year twice, won MOTM against City (the best team of his era) three times and scored in lots of big games.

Anderson played 100 games for us over eight years and I'm struggling to remember 10 good ones. And his approach to conditioning was shocking.

But hey, he smiled a lot, which is obviously enough for some people.
 
Agree with you OP. Martial is probably the biggest victim of this calamitous era we've been under, compounded with the elitist media bias on foreign technical players who threaten their darlings. And yes, I'm still Martial FC until the man leaves. He needs to go for the sake of his career though. Provided he has finally got behind his injury issues, he's the type of player to still remain effective well into his thirties since his game is mainly based on technique, vision and short movements.

No matter how much I'd love it, I simply don't see how he rejuvenates his career with this current United team. Either his teammates have lost faith in his ability to ever stay fit enough to rally around, somewhat understable given his record the past two years or so, or the more likely cynical outlook of them not liking him because he has more talent in his right foot than most of them could ever dream of; what can be seen on the pitch is the fact they simply would rather pass to anyone else or lose the ball before considering him as an option, and when they do they give it at the worst possible position or with the most uncontrollable weight. Very few players can survive in such an enviornment and it's even more difficult for a player of Martial's type, who needs to touch the ball as often as possible to build his way into any game, understand how he's being defended and most importantly how his teammates are responding to the spaces created in attack when he gets or moves with the ball.

I hope he takes a good long look around for a team that is stable, with a heritage of progressive football and a manager with authority and a clear plan to implement his style. I'm not saying he's ever going to reach the same levels, especially after his unfortunate injury proneness thanks to Ole's deer-in-the-headlights management, but he should look to Benzema who remained effective and dominated the game at 34, and know that he has time to still realize his best football.
 
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Martial is the kind of player that is so un-inspiring for fans (as well as I suspect his team mates), didn't ETH say he was the most talented footballer at the club, if true that explains a lot about our squad and ETH as a manager

Can you imagine as an opposition central defender seeing the team sheet with Martial on it, got to be a boost you know you are going to have an easy game

I do not approve of Rashford sulking but to be behind Martial as a striker when he was by far our top scorer last season is ridiculous

I would much rather just play somebody from the youth side than I would Martial, playing with Martial in the side is like being a man down anyway so you may as well give some youth development a chance

There is no elitist agenda, or any other kind of agenda against Martial other than the one he creates, he was clearly available for sale or loan, no takers from anywhere, he stank up Seville whilst he was there and there are no other clubs in the prem that would put up with him, TBH if we offered him on a free I would be surprised if any prem club wanted him, and I very much doubt any club across Europe in the top half of their leagues, we have had lazy players before, Berbatov comes to mind and no I wasn't a fan but I would take half the player Berbatov was over twice the player Martial is now! other strikers we have had like RVN contributed little outside of the opposition box but he was so alive and on it in that area that it was worth the payoff, Martial is nowhere near most of the balls coming into the area, and is generally lagging behind the player running forward with the ball on any given break, absolute waste of a shirt number... if he leaves Utd I have no doubt he will fizzle into obscurity in short order
 
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I don't like how him, mctominay and Maguire seem to lazily be the 3 go to players to bash when the chips are down from pundits like keane, carragher and our own fans when all 3 have never been outspoken against managers and just got on with being relegated to the bench without throwing tantrums.

Martial is and never will be a supreme pressing machine or overly passionate player, he has never done it for us, monaco, france or even during his spell at sevilla, it does not mean he cares less about the club or national team, he does not epitomise all that is wrong with the club, he along with mctominay etc... have never held the club hostage to wanting a big pay rise or threatening to run their contract down, the blame should always be put on the directors above the manager and ole who have rewarded these average but good professionals with silly contracts, problem is it's fashionable enough or get enough clicks to put the blame solely on those in the boardroom.
 
Is it lazy to criticise Martial or just obvious and honest? because lets face it he is an easy target because of his performances and no other reason.... ipso facto... if it walks like a duck etc...
 
Martial's biggest problem is that his injuries have completely sapped him of all his pace. Sometimes, he looks like he's trying to run, but physically, he just can't.
 
FrantikChicken said:
Martial hasn’t completed 90mins for United in 3 years.

The reason he embodies everything that is wrong at the club is not through direct fault of his own. He’s still here, on high wages, getting game time, when he hasn’t been fit for purpose for multiple seasons. The only other striking option we have is a Danish kid with no real top level experience!

Unfortunately for Martial, his circumstances and position make it very easy and obvious to point out to the ownership’s failings in running this club.
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Puts it perfectly.

Martial reprints the survival culture that has prevailed at this club. It’s far easier to point fingers at a player who doesn’t play much then when he does often underwhelms than keep going at other issues.

He shouldn’t be at the club any longer, that’s a club issue though.
 
Nickelodeon said:
Our big-money contracts became so cheap around the 2018-2020 period which all began with Sanchez signing. If Sanchez was 400k (or whatever), De Gea must be close since he was the world's best keeper (supposedly) at the time and Rashford and Martial must be around ~200k. Basically, we paid top tier wages to mediocre players in the hope that they will become world class. And we keep doing that over and over again. At this point, we should be forbidden from paying more than 150k (or a low threshold) to any new signing. Not a single person is surprised that Rashford has hit this low level after signing his new contract. In fact, even in the 30 goal season last year, in a lot of the games, goals masked Rashford's poor performances. A smart management team would've leveraged the season and sold him off at top dollar. Chelsea were able to do that for Mount despite an awful season last year. We have a gullible management team who gets conned by every other club for transfer fees and agents and players for salaries. Chelsea made a similar mistake when they got the likes of Koulibaly stuck on large wages but showed good awareness to get rid of him as early as possible and reduced their losses. At the same time, we were making pennies by selling off our youngsters. Even the likes of Elanga, in a struggling Forest team, are outperforming all our forwards currently.

We deserve every bit of negative feedback from the media. If anything, our hall of shame needs to be highlighted more. During Fergie's reign, we signed enough duds. But I don't remember a single player who got stuck because no one was willing to pay any sort of money for them. Look at the current squad and see what we can get for young players such as Antony, Sancho or Rashford. No one will touch them with a bargepole because of the wages they're at and the only solutions would be loan-to buy where we pay part of the wages and then the buy option doesn't get activated. The INEOS team comes in with an overhaul mandate and they will now realize (or may have already done) the level of idiocy that's been allowed to happen. Shame on everyone from the owners to Woodward to Arnold to Murtough and all of them deserve to be sacked.
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I think this is a great post actually. The Sánchez seal was absolutely ruinous wasn't it. His wage must have caused so much inflation.
 
MackRobinson said:
Martial's biggest problem is that his injuries have completely sapped him of all his pace. Sometimes, he looks like he's trying to run, but physically, he just can't.
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Yeah this gets overlooked. He was never lightning to start off with but he looks cumbersome now.
 
Absolute passenger type player. Should not even be on the bench. He optimises all that is wrong with modern football, how a waster like him is a multi millionaire is galling.
 
Antony Martial still a United player in 2024

Everything wrong with the club in one player. Not good enough, lazy overpaid shite like half the squad.
 
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