[Insanity]

@TheGame I am going to be clueless again today, my man.

If he keeps on getting starts in the midfield, than the transition we all feared under Moyes, would be complete.

 

[dirkey]

Spoiler

Yup, that's me having agenda against Rooney. Man known for spraying it to the wings in every single match. I've said that he's created two real chances - one was near the end to RVP and the other one was from the corner for Fellaini. RVP and Rooney had less than 11 passes between themselves so they hardly 'linked up with each other', bar that one good chance really and probably a couple of worthless passes. So yea, I wish I had a chance to miss this fantastic link up play but sadly there was close to none for me to miss.

And Mata being 'terrible' is just another repeated ad infinitum cliche I can't be bothered with, sorry for that.

So .. 5 passes sprayed out to the wings, of 27? All of them successful? One unsuccessful if you count the one clipped up the line.

So .. was Mata miles better than Rooney in his 3 games as number 10? Bear in mind, I'm a fan of Mata, but are you saying he was good? Are you saying he actually did better in those 3 games than Rooney did today? Because he didn't. Plain and simple

 

[Kostur]

So .. 5 passes sprayed out to the wings, of 27? All of them successful? One unsuccessful if you count the one clipped up the line.

So .. was Mata miles better than Rooney in his 3 games as number 10? Bear in mind, I'm a fan of Mata, but are you saying he was good? Are you saying he actually did better in those 3 games than Rooney did today? Because he didn't. Plain and simple

Yes he did, plain and simple.

And yea, as you can see, bar those 5 or 6 sprays he did ( given that 'spray' - a long pass to the side ) most of his passes were to fecking sides. He's keeping the ball on the wings. He's trully playing 'the United way'.

 

[dirkey]

Yes he did, plain and simple.

Fair enough.

Incidentally - what site did you use for that Rooney passes diagram? I like that kinda stuff, would like to have a look.

 

[Kostur]

Fair enough.

Incidentally - what site did you use for that Rooney passes diagram? I like that kinda stuff, would like to have a look.

It's on fourfourtwo statszone, you can get basically everything there bar distance covered.

 

[Shamwow]

@TheGame I am going to be clueless again today, my man.

If he keeps on getting starts in the midfield, than the transition we all feared under Moyes, would be complete.

What the hell does that even mean?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

What site did you get that graphic from, @Kostur?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

What site did you get that graphic from, @Kostur?

Nevermind, just realised you mentioned it.

 

[Roboc7]

Sorry but you're talking bollocks. You're blaming the lack of movement on him?!

It's not bollocks it's quite simple and true for any football team, your not going to make runs which require defence splitting passs, switching the play, little reverse balls of you see fellaini is on the ball, in any football team you quickly learn the attributes of others and that affects how you play. I said the movement isn't good enough but if players know the passes aren't coming then they stop making the runs, if you people like fellaini on the ball you know you have to get close to them to receive a pass.

 

[Devil may care]

I'd agree with you that I don't think in the long term he is a good enough midfielder to be playing regularly for us, if we have designs on being a top side again. But I didn't think he was very poor today. He was average, didn't really mess anything up of note in a huge sense, neither did he do much bar the one header.

We are at home to one of the worst sides in the league, it's where our CM's should dominate, yet he didn't do anything productive, didn't set any tempo and even lost out physically at times. He wasn't alone in being poor, Rooney and Di Maria were poor as well and RvP and Adnan were even worse, but there's no way I can class this performance as anything but poor.

 

[NK86]

Probably shit but I can't think of a single defence splitting pass anyone in the team made so to focus on him is bollocks. Who would he have made a defence splitting pass to exactly? The movement up top was shit, that's the problem as far as I'm concerned.

The movement up top has been pretty poor even when Herrera plays but he did actually create chances when he did play. Point is Fellaini is not suited for playing against teams who put 11 men behind the ball. He is decent against opposition where we need to defend a lot but against teams like Palace we need someone to actually create opportunities.

 

[Shamwow]

It's not bollocks it's quite simple and true for any football team, your not going to make runs which require defence splitting passs, switching the play, little reverse balls of you see fellaini is on the ball, in any football team you quickly learn the attributes of others and that affects how you play. I said the movement isn't good enough but if players know the passes aren't coming then they stop making the runs, if you people like fellaini on the ball you know you have to get close to them to receive a pass.

That doesn't match up with how the game actually played out though. He spent most of his time on the right side of the pitch and tried link up with Januzaj a lot. The problem was, Januzaj was slowing the play down whenever he got the ball and whenever Fellaini went for the pass and move, he didn't get it back.

 

[Shamwow]

The movement up top has been pretty poor even when Herrera plays but he did actually create chances when he did play. Point is Fellaini is not suited for playing against teams who put 11 men behind the ball. He is decent against opposition where we need to defend a lot but against teams like Palace we need someone to actually create opportunities.

What did you want him to do in this game specifically though? Through balls? No, that's not realistic considering Palace were playing with 10 men behind the ball and Van Persie and Januzaj did not have the pace to beat their defenders.

 

[Ekeke]

The movement up top has been pretty poor even when Herrera plays but he did actually create chances when he did play. Point is Fellaini is not suited for playing against teams who put 11 men behind the ball. He is decent against opposition where we need to defend a lot but against teams like Palace we need someone to actually create opportunities.

At the same time, on another day he scores his header that was cleared off the line. But you could always bring that threat off the bench after 60 minutes if it looks like its needed

 

[starman]

Apart from RvP, Di Maria and Januzaj who were shit; the rest of the outfield cast put in bang average performances. All were equally mediocre. At least Carrick/Blind have the excuse for being out of position, Fellaini was played in his preferred position and was nothing special. Only problem is he does put in his 6/10 performances which should not be the standard we should be happy with.

I dont get your point, whos happy? He did ok, but was far from our worst player.

 

[Insanity]

What the hell does that even mean?

That means that he is not a player that should start regularly for Manchester United in the midfield. From the creativity of Scholes to the chesting of Fellaini is not a transition I want to see us make.

 

[Shamwow]

We are at home to one of the worst sides in the league, it's where our CM's should dominate, yet he didn't do anything productive, didn't set any tempo and even lost out physically at times. He wasn't alone in being poor, Rooney and Di Maria were poor as well and RvP and Adnan were even worse, but there's no way I can class this performance as anything but poor.

Our CMs did dominate. Almost the entire game as played in their half.

 

[Kostur]

The movement up top has been pretty poor even when Herrera plays but he did actually create chances when he did play. Point is Fellaini is not suited for playing against teams who put 11 men behind the ball. He is decent against opposition where we need to defend a lot but against teams like Palace we need someone to actually create opportunities.

And this is a sentiment I could probably agree with, only problem that comes to my mind is what others have said already, look at games against Leicester for example, of course, we've had fantastic attacking play there but were completly overrun in the midfield, something that didn't really happen against Chelsea or City, or basically in any match we've had Fellaini in. You're right that Herrera's got better chance creating ability than Fellaini but if you stick just offensive midfielders who're weak physically, we're hardly seeing any of the ball and get destroyed on counters.

And again, biggest threat prior to Mata's cameo came from his header. Not saying it's enough of course but it's still somethin we've missed. Just like we've missed CMs against Chavski for the goal or overall, we've lost the most goals from the crosses in the league this season, 5.

 

[Sam]

That means that he is not a player that should start regularly for Manchester United in the midfield. From the creativity of Scholes to the chesting of Fellaini is not a transition I want to see us make.

We will never win a title with Fellaini as part of our first XI.

 

[Shamwow]

That means that he is not a player that should start regularly for Manchester United in the midfield. From the creativity of Scholes to the chesting of Fellaini is not a transition I want to see us make.

Do you always talk in cliches?

 

[Devil may care]

Our CMs did dominate. Almost the entire game as played in their half.

No, they were sitting so deep we had a lot of possession, domination is what you do with said possession, we did nothing.

 

[Striker10]

Saying he's not suited against teams who put 11 behind the ball is stupid. You just want to put him on the bench. We were better in the second half because we put a bit more effort into it. Nothing to do with Fellaini. If we play with tempo we're a better team then what we produced today. I think we're also missing a great winger at the moment or someone with pace who attracts two or three players.

 

[Sam]

Our CMs did dominate. Almost the entire game as played in their half.

Palace sat back, let us have 65% of possesion, and Fellaini could do naff all with it (as predicted). He's a very limited player.

 

[Shamwow]

No, they were sitting so deep we had a lot of possession, domination is what you do with said possession, we did nothing.

And you don't think the ineptitude of our attacking players (Di Maria, Januzaj and Van Persie) had more to do with it than someone who helped us dominate possession?

And this wasn't Moyes style possession like what we saw last season. Last season we dominated possession by playing it between our centre backs constantly and we had no clue how to play it out of defence without hoofing it. That was not the case this game. Our build up play was decent until the play broke down in the final third but I'd lay the blame for that at the feet of the likes of Di Maria, Januzaj, Van Persie and Rooney.

 

[KeninDC]

Thought he was serviceable, and probably played to his capability. This year, as he seems to have settled, I can see his skill set. Doesn't seem 100% comfortable running with the ball, but can be disruptive in MF and an attacking option in the box.

 

[Shamwow]

Palace sat back, let us have 65% of possesion, and Fellaini could do naff all with it (as predicted). He's a very limited player.

Yeah, it's Fellaini's fault that Van Persie, Di Maria and Januzaj were all poor. Christ...

 

[Roboc7]

That doesn't match up with how the game actually played out though. He spent most of his time on the right side of the pitch and tried link up with Januzaj a lot. The problem was, Januzaj was slowing the play down whenever he got the ball and whenever Fellaini went for the pass and move, he didn't get it back.

But what would fellaini do when he got the ball back? Play it to whoever is nearest to him, that's what he does and that's not a criticism it's just true. Do you expect RVP or the wingers to spin off their man and ask him to dink over the top, or the full backs expect him switch the play, or for him to play clever little passes around the box? It's not what he does everyone knows that so their movement reflects that, it's no different to Cleverley or jones playing in midfield, this has been a problem for years and it's not all his fault but there is no point trying to make him out to be good at something when he isn't.

 

[Insanity]

Do you always talk in cliches?

Are you here to here to comment on football?

 

[Sam]

Yeah, it's Fellaini's fault that Van Persie, Di Maria and Januzaj were all poor. Christ...

Whats this got to do with those three? We're talking about Fellaini.

 

[Shamwow]

But what would fellaini do when he got the ball back? Play it to whoever is nearest to him, that's what he does and that's not a criticism it's just true. Do you expect RVP or the wingers to spin off their man and ask him to dink over the top, or the full backs expect him switch the play, or for him to play clever little passes around the box? It's not what he does everyone knows that so their movement reflects that, it's no different to Cleverley or jones playing in midfield, this has been a problem for years and it's not all his fault but there is no point trying to make him out to be good at something when he isn't.

You're acting like he was the only player they could rely on for passes. They had shit movement all game, whether it was Rooney, Carrick, Blind, Mata or Fellaini on the ball.

 

[Shamwow]

Whats this got to do with those three? We're talking about Fellaini.

Because they were (meant to be) our attackers...

 

[Devil may care]

And you don't think the ineptitude of our attacking players (Di Maria, Januzaj and Van Persie) had more to do with it than someone who helped us dominate possession?

And this wasn't Moyes style possession like what we saw last season. Last season we dominated possession by playing it between our centre backs constantly and we had no clue how to play it out of defence without hoofing it. That was not the case this game. Our build up play was decent until the play broke down in the final third but I'd lay the blame for that at the feet of the likes of Di Maria, Januzaj, Van Persie and Rooney.

I said they were all poor as well, back 5 for us were fine, front 5 were all poor or beyond poor in the case of RvP and Januzaj, yet somehow it was all their fault in your view and his cumbersome inability to run with the ball and lack of passing vision and variety is not part of the problem as well, he was on equal footing with their ineffectiveness.

 

[Sam]

Because they were (meant to be) our attackers...

But again, whats that got to do with Fellaini's performance? Unless you're saying, well xxx player was rubbish so it doesnt matter that Fellaini was rubbish too? Which seems odd.

 

[NK86]

And this is a sentiment I could probably agree with, only problem that comes to my mind is what others have said already, look at games against Leicester for example, of course, we've had fantastic attacking play there but were completly overrun in the midfield, something that didn't really happen against Chelsea or City, or basically in any match we've had Fellaini in. You're right that Herrera's got better chance creating ability than Fellaini but if you stick just offensive midfielders who're weak physically, we're hardly seeing any of the ball and get destroyed on counters.

And again, biggest threat prior to Mata's cameo came from his header. Not saying it's enough of course but it's still somethin we've missed. Just like we've missed CMs against Chavski for the goal or overall, we've lost the most goals from the crosses in the league this season, 5.

The thing is we have changed our formation since that game and that is clear. If you are going to attribute this better defensive record to Fellaini's inclusion over Herrera, then you also have to equally blame him for our awful performances going forward. Truth is he is not to be completely blamed/praised for either of those things. Fellaini, in games vs City/Chelsea, has been good and I have accepted that (even though I am not his biggest fan here) but in games where we need more guile than steel he is not required.

 

[NK86]

What did you want him to do in this game specifically though? Through balls? No, that's not realistic considering Palace were playing with 10 men behind the ball and Van Persie and Januzaj did not have the pace to beat their defenders.

Point is he does not have enough guile to play in games like these.

 

[Ringo 07]

Right now Fellaini is a far better option in midfield than Herrera even against teams like palace because teams like palace have been murdering us through set pieces all season and we don't have a strong enough defence to be able to leave Fellaini out of the team. Fellainis defensive work defending set pieces is of huge importance to us now. Fellaini has been a nice surprise this year and offers a lot more than Herrera in this moment but for sure LVG will still need to sign a proper box to box player eventually. Herrera looks about 2 years away from being ready to become a first teamer

 

[NK86]

At the same time, on another day he scores his header that was cleared off the line. But you could always bring that threat off the bench after 60 minutes if it looks like its needed

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Kostur]

The thing is we have changed our formation since that game and that is clear. If you are going to attribute this better defensive record to Fellaini's inclusion over Herrera, then you also have to equally blame him for our awful performances going forward. Truth is he is not to be completely blamed/praised for either of those things. Fellaini, in games vs City/Chelsea, has been good and I have accepted that (even though I am not his biggest fan here) but in games where we need more guile than steel he is not required.

I'm not blaming Herrera for being overrun in the midfield, rather the lack of balance when playing the diamond. Yes, we've changed in 4141 with which we didn't help ourselves imo because neither ADM nor Januzaj have been helping our case while in the 4141 and I think that we've played the best to our strengths / potential while in the diamond, so I'd like to see diamond formation with Fellaini somewhere there.

To put it more blatantly, I think that Fellaini brings us the 'balance' we've lacked. Having the best team is not always about playing the best 11 players available.

 

[Sam]

Right now Fellaini is a far better option in midfield than Herrera even against teams like palace because teams like palace have been murdering us through set pieces all season and we don't have a strong enough defence to be able to leave Fellaini out of the team. Fellainis defensive work defending set pieces is of huge importance to us now. Fellaini has been a nice surprise this year and offers a lot more than Herrera in this moment but for sure LVG will still need to sign a proper box to box player eventually. Herrera looks about 2 years away from being ready to become a first teamer

Thats a joke right? right? Surely?

 

[Roboc7]

You're acting like he was the only player they could rely on for passes. They had shit movement all game, whether it was Rooney, Carrick, Blind, Mata or Fellaini on the ball.

I am not saying it's just him I am just saying that he isn't good at passing, and movement and passing go hand in hand, the movement can be great but if the passing isn't good enough it won't matter and it's the same the other way round, if the passing is poor the movement stops, you think that's bollocks but I have no idea why. Him nd Rooney playing as the two more advanced in the three man midfield are crucial to the passing and movement of the team and they aren't really up to it.