I don't think he spat on him but kicking someone, hard, in the back of their ankle should always be a penalty.
27
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
It should have been a pen but I couldn't tell when I first saw it, only on the replay.
I don't think the Rojo one was a pen at all.
I don't think the Rojo one was a pen at all.
No i don't, while the runs in the box are, i think, instructions and Fellaini is really good at it.
The huge gap in the right end of our midfield and the lack of cover for the right back can't be an instruction, the movement are way too erratic to be Van gaal instructions.
Fair enough.
I didnt see this huge gap that you are referring to.
In the Chelsea game he obviously was trying to shut down Fabregas and Matic as much as possible (which he did), in the City game after we went down to 10 men I thought he was very disciplined positionally and defended well on that side.
Against Chelsea he was excellent, but against City before the Chris Smalling Show he was chasing the ball no matter where. Which gave City space on the right 2 or 3 times. But he was still good.
To be honest I didnt notice him especially before the red card (except a lovely pirouette), but in general we seemed to be on top of the game - which when playing City away from home is a rarity - so whatever he was doing, as far as I am concerned it seemed to work.
Thanks @ZDwyr.
@Manucho the boss, I got the stats from here, but you also have to realise that our passing against City and Chelsea were bound to be lower, in comparison to the QPR and Leicester games, as they're better teams. I think it'll be more of a fair judgement to monitor our play style against teams similar to QPR and Leicester. I guess Crystal Palace this week will be interesting as to how we play, especially if Fellaini's in the team.
@Walrus What's with your Mad Winger-like obsession of Fellaini? Besides the penalty in the box against Aguero, did you not see his wayward header from 8 yards out? Also, inexplicably gave the ball away when he was leading a break on the edge of City's 18-yard box. Thought he was okay, certainly not as great as some are making him out to be. He's a brainless idiot who's a liability as far as giving away penalties are concerned. But as others have pointed out, what worries me most about Fellaini playing is that it changes our playing style to a hoof-ball team. Hoping a healthy Falcao, Carrick and Herrera means it's back to the bench for Fellaini.
How many penalties has Fellaini actually conceded in his career?
As others above have pointed out, we've not playing significantly more long balls in the last 3 games than we did in previous games where Fellaini hasn't played.
The bolded is complete nonsense, and certainly far more biased than anything I've seen @Walrus post in this thread
He's another that doesn't actually keep his eyes open when the game is on from the looks of things.
Right, I'm imagining Fellaini cocking up our best chance to get a point against City. Also, fouled Aguero in the box when he caught him from behind which should have been another penalty. What followed with him yelling at Aguero to get up while knowing he fouled him, is acting like an idiot. How many elbows and times he's out of position defensively will it take before you realize that he's actually brainless?
How perceptive! It's an internet forum for Christ's sake!
Got a good chuckle out of that, then realized you were serious.
You were having a go at Walrus for being the 'Mad Winger of Fellaini', but when people point out your bias its worthy of a sarky comment? Very consistent logic there.
Any chance of you responding to the part in my post that called out your factual inaccuracy? Or if you like you could just ignore the facts and keep on being sarcastic, it'd be a shame to break the habit of a lifetime after all.
I wasn't "having a go" at Walrus because he was "biased". It's an internet forum, after all. Everything here is based on people's opinions. Simply curious why he's such a fan and ardent defender of Fellaini. As for factual inaccuracy, a sample size of two games is hardly conclusive. I'm not saying that his style of play doesn't serve a purpose, but I don't think it's a long-term solution or what we should aspire to. We've got better players to play in forward positions as well as midfield than Fellaini. Or did you miss his wayward header from 8 yards out that went like 10 yards wide? Not sure what you mean about being sarcastic and breaking lifetime habits, do we know each other?
Yep, still clueless.
@jeff_goldblum and @Shamwow have already sufficiently retorted to this, in my absense - but ill bite nonetheless.
You strike me as one of those who made up his mind very early about Fellaini and as such will criticise him regardless of what he does.
Last season Fellaini was poor, but you know what - the entire team was poor. Furthermore he had no preseason with us, spent the start of the season playing with a wrist injury (which later required surgery), and is also very strongly associated with Moyes.
If it were another player, this season would have been seen by the fans as a chance for a "fresh start", slate wiped clean and all that. When we signed Berbatov on deadline day, the fans had huge amounts of patience (for the records, I was against the Berbatov signing at the time) for the same reasons, but with Fellaini there is an inherent hatred for him, which your post is a typical example of.
The notion that Fellaini = hoofball has already been put to bed by the stats. To add some more to this though - our last two games were against the best two teams in the league. Of course we arent going to be able to pass it around to the same extent as we can against relegation fodder.
Also, in both of these games we have found ourselves behind - it is standard practice, Fellaini or not, that when you are chasing a game you are more direct - you get the ball forward and try to get a goal back. This is normal.
Consider the above, and then consider that we actually didnt play any more long balls in the last two games, than we have done previously, and what does that tell you?
To conclude, not only are you wrong, but you arent even attempting to logically argue why you arent wrong, which is one of the worst types of wrong.
Edit:
With regard to this - I am not an ardent defender of Fellaini, I am simply disgusted by the inability of a lot of so-called fans to even give the man a chance. He dominated our midfield more than once when we played against Everton, and he did the same to other big teams. LVG has brought him into the side for the last 2.5 games and he has been arguably our best player during that period. What more can he do?
If it were any other player, the fans would be singing his praises and hailing him as a revelation, yet because it is Fellaini, even now there are a lot of people (like you) who simply refuse to give credit where credit is due.
The ironic cheers he got in preseason were for me, one of the lowest and saddest things I have been witness to as a United supporter. Fellaini has not really done anything to be targeted with such vitriol and insults. Fortunately LVG is a bit more pragmatic and seems to see (and utilise) Fellainis strengths and attributes.
I checked up and he has commited 2 fouls that led to penalties during his time playing in the Premier League. Can't find anything for national or cup stats though.
I can't deny that I do see him as a rather limited, borderline dirty player (elbows, anyone?) unsuited for the likes of us. His best attribute (chest control) is more useful for teams that hoof the ball up to him in the box. Everyone here would have been screaming for a penalty if that was him (ca Everton days) fouling Rooney or RVP instead of Aguero. But fair enough, let's let the season play out and see how he does.
Reckon I can live with this.
He's doing a good job at the moment. Glad to see him doing well at last.
I honestly didnt think it was a penalty. There was contact without a doubt, but not sufficient to have any impact if Aguero had chosen to stay on his feet. Aguero was looking for it and went down as soon as he felt a touch.
Most strikers, bar possibly Messi, would have gone down there.
That is my midfield of choice from the current squad. Rooney and Falcao if fit up top.
He concedes one penalty a game along with his two red cards per match.
It was as blatant a penalty as you'll see.
Has he actually conceded a penalty for us? Maybe he has and it's not instantly coming to my mind. Yep, he should have had one given against him the other day, but this comment is just absurd!
I'll take the Mad Winger position with regards to Fellaini. I have no issue being his #1 supporter because I like the guy. Although, I'm not completely blinded by his flaws. Just to add to the post from Walrus, he was also playing with a back injury last year (as well as the wrist). He definitely deserved a clean slate but the fact he didn't get it and has worked to win some over makes me admire him even more. It's frustrating that the hoofball perception and the 'gives away penalties every game perception' exists, because really they are not entirely accurate.
Not following you, mate. Probably want to start again.
A criticism I have of Fellaini during his last two (very good) games is that when we decide to go direct, he is taking up positions that are not going to hurt the opposition, he is usually taking up spots on the corner of the box. I don't know if it's an instruction from van Gaal or not but he should be right in the middle looking to score. The one time from memory where he did get into a good area between the posts he had the chance against City, yeh it was a pretty bad miss at the end of the day but you could see just how dangerous he can be in that area. I don't see the idea of these knock downs when he might as well knock it into the net if he moves 10 metres closer to goal.
That's twice in 2 days, man. It was okay the first time, but this time, it hurt. It really hurt, man..
That's twice in 2 days, man. It was okay the first time, but this time, it hurt. It really hurt, man..
Good god man, this ain't the newbies. Anyway think we disagree a great deal on Fellaini.
How many penalties did he give away for us?
Now, how many penalties did Rafael, Jones and other players give away for us? Are they all brainless idiots as well? Mind you that besides Fellaini's penalty in that match they should've been given two more: one by Carrick and another one by Rojo. Another two brainless idiots?
And Jesus no, it doesn't fecking change our playstyle to hoof no matter how much you'd like to insist so. Were we playing hoof against Chelsea too? Maybe the hoof tactic we reverted to against City was solely down to the fact that we were down to 10 men? It's a bunch of shite cliches thrown into the air again.
And is the missed header everybody seems to be whining about the one when the ball bounced off his shoulder?
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No doubt, at times Rafael and Jones have been reckless and hurt us in the past with stupid penalties that make you go "wtf was he thinking?" Rojo is another one that I can see costing us 3 points with a stupid penalty. But you're right, I certainly wouldn't classify them as brainless idiots, maybe brain-dead at times. They're also defenders and offer us plenty in terms of skill and talent.
Perhaps "brainless idiot" was a bit harsh. Fellaini's never been a player that I wanted at United in the first place, so maybe that "bias" does carry over. I feel that he's clumsy, immobile, borderline dirty, and doesn't possess the requisite technical skills for what playing in our midfield should require. I mean someone put up a clip of Fellaini with a nice, little turn in the City game. Harldy Zidane-esque and something most Premier League midfielders should be able to pull off in their sleep. I understand the desire to add steel and aggression to our midfield, but not at the expense of actual footballing ability. I remember long stretches of the Chelsea game where he was getting bypassed and wasn't involved at all. And yes, the missed header against City is the one that he so badly misjudged it ended up going off his shoulder. And after that no-call penalty against City, was there really a need for him to go and yell at Aguero like that? Stupid shit like that pisses me off.
And I never said that we were playing hoofball, I said I was worried that having Fellaini in there would be too tempting to eventually resort to hoof tactics. Especially when we're down. Most would agree Fellaini's best position (up front as a #10) and attributes (chest control, height) are best-suited for hoofing it. Although maybe it shouldn't be too much of a concern, as I do have faith in LVG to prevent that from happening.
I do hope that Fellaini finds success here, as I would for any United player. It's just that I have my doubts and hope that he doesn't negatively impact us in terms of results and opportunity cost. Having said that, I do think I'll take a little break from this thread as I don't want to appear overly negative, and I've said what I wanted to say. To which most of you have clearly disagreed with.
Do you mean like crosses or long balls from deep? On long balls from deep I think it is better to go for a knock-down as it is extremely hard to get enough power and direction on a header from a long-ball.
On the other side when defending corners/wide free-kicks I think his marking is poor. If the ball comes into his area he has a good chance of winning it but he seems to lose his man in the box quite often.
I think you're a tad harsh on Fellaini in this context. While, for me, the jury is still out as to whether or not he is good enough (overall I don't think so to be honest) but I'm willing to give him a chance after his last few performances. Maybe with a bit of confidence he will start to show something.No doubt, at times Rafael and Jones have been reckless and hurt us in the past with stupid penalties that make you go "wtf was he thinking?" Rojo is another one that I can see costing us 3 points with a stupid penalty. But you're right, I certainly wouldn't classify them as brainless idiots, maybe brain-dead at times. They're also defenders and offer us plenty in terms of skill and talent.
Perhaps "brainless idiot" was a bit harsh. Fellaini's never been a player that I wanted at United in the first place, so maybe that "bias" does carry over. I feel that he's clumsy, immobile, borderline dirty, and doesn't possess the requisite technical skills for what playing in our midfield should require. I mean someone put up a clip of Fellaini with a nice, little turn in the City game. Harldy Zidane-esque and something most Premier League midfielders should be able to pull off in their sleep. I understand the desire to add steel and aggression to our midfield, but not at the expense of actual footballing ability. I remember long stretches of the Chelsea game where he was getting bypassed and wasn't involved at all. And yes, the missed header against City is the one that he so badly misjudged it ended up going off his shoulder. And after that no-call penalty against City, was there really a need for him to go and yell at Aguero like that? Stupid shit like that pisses me off.
And I never said that we were playing hoofball, I said I was worried that having Fellaini in there would be too tempting to eventually resort to hoof tactics. Especially when we're down. Most would agree Fellaini's best position (up front as a #10) and attributes (chest control, height) are best-suited for hoofing it. Although maybe it shouldn't be too much of a concern, as I do have faith in LVG to prevent that from happening.
I do hope that Fellaini finds success here, as I would for any United player. It's just that I have my doubts and hope that he doesn't negatively impact us in terms of results and opportunity cost. Having said that, I do think I'll take a little break from this thread as I don't want to appear overly negative, and I've said what I wanted to say. To which most of you have clearly disagreed with.
The header though, that's very harsh. I think I mentioned it in an earlier post but I don't think people realise how hard it is to get just such a deft touch on the ball with your head, when it's whipped in like that, while you're running, evading a marker, and having to stoop. He knew he could barely touch it, and that's what he was going for, a glance. He misjudged it by millimetres I reckon, so it's very harsh to simply say "Oh look, it came off his shoulder, terrible".
As for the penalty - yeah, it was probably stupid to start roaring at him ... but tell me this, have you ever had a fright and then just roared in an aggressive manner, out of shock? I know I have. I'd imagine Fellaini damn near pooed his pants! He knows he's walking a tight rope with United, especially with a majority of the support, and he knew he'd realistically given away a penalty. Fright, followed by relief, followed by a silly reaction alright ... but I can kinda understand it.
I think everyone agrees that they don't want his success, if he gets it, to come at the cost of watching United play hoofball .. and I personally don't think that's going to happen. That's not Van Gaal's way, never has been, and can't see him changing that now. I"m with you on the doubts regarding him, but hopefully next time you're back on this thread, it's to admit that you & I have both been wrong.
I couldnt care less if one of our players has a go at an opponent. As long as he isnt doing something that is going to get him booked - absolutely, put the fear of god in Aguero or whoever else.
We had images of Rafael standing up to Tevez and shouting at him and Rafael was (rightly) lauded as a hero for it - but Fellaini yells at Aguero and suddenly it is stupid behaviour?
We had images of Rafael standing up to Tevez and shouting at him and Rafael was (rightly) lauded as a hero for it - but Fellaini yells at Aguero and suddenly it is stupid behaviour?
Rafael is el loco so it is alright.
Watching Aguero dive again tonight reaffirms my belief that it wasn't a pen (against us) and Fellaini was in his rights to have a go at him.
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