No one is saying they're unimpressive, just that as a whole Carroll and Fellaini can play better. There's a lot more to professional football than just skill.
27
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
It was always stupidity to write him off based on the sample of last season. It is not a coincidence that many of our newer players are starting to find their stride the first time since Fergie left that we've seen any consistency in how we field our team.
1) Technique isn't just first touch (which is why I said touch/technique).
2) Ravel Morrison isn't the best example - because he actually is a professional footballer
3) There are of course people who don't make it professional for one reason or another, be it drive/determination/commitment, but you'll often find that those that fall by the wayside when they're young would then struggle to compete with a Premier League footballer because they have not played at that high level, thus cannot cope with it's speed/power as they haven't furthered their abilities to that level.
4) Never take anything John Barnes say's seriously
No, the main difference is that they can play football. I'm not saying the freestylers would be better players at all. I'm saying they are more technically sound, to use your expression, and are examples of random blokes who have a better touch.
The point is, Fellaini and Carroll are not pro footballers over these guys because they are more gifted. That is obviously not true. Credit to Fellaini and Carroll for making it, but to blanket say that by default, they are more gifted is unlikely to be true, is all.
Again, I have no issue with Fellaini, and had no intention to have a go at him. I have been asked, again, to clarify my views on Fellaini's technical ability. If you watch him, even now, you will see a Manchester United attacking midfielder who is generally not confident to attempt any pass other than to the person 5 yards from him, or to attempt a shot where other attacking midfielders for top teams, like Oscar, to use a random example, would.
Many times Fellaini picks the ball up in a dangerous area and I can seea pass on that is a bit more challenging than the usual that may put us through on goal, or an opening for a shot, and he would turn back, and pass to the person next to him. An Oscar or a Cesc have the ability hurt you in such circumstances - Fellaini's abilities are more suited to pulling on to a much smaller full-back and hurting you aerially. Fair play to him, and fair play to us for finding a way that that particular strength is useful to the team.
Where do you draw the line then? Is it fair to say that Fellaini is one of the best players in the world? How about one of the greatest midfielders ever? Sure, most of the midfielders that most people who know anything about football would say are/were better than him have obvious qualities over Fellaini. But then the same can be said vice versa.
Using this new, not universally accepted way of rating the skill level of footballers, many would struggle to justify why Iniesta or Zidane are better than Fellani.
Yours was one of those I was referring to yes, although not the only one.
The bottom line is that you dont start games for Manchester United in midfield, if you dont have technical ability. Im not talking about chest control (although it is a valid point) but his actual ability, with the ball at his feet. The view that he is oh-so-limited technically is just an outdated stereotype formed by the caf last season (amongst other things). If you watch how he played for Everton, and how he plays now, it is plain to see that actually he is technically sound. Is he Paul Scholes? Of course not, but the "limited technique" labels are equally as wide of the mark.
There have been plenty of examples of Fellaini showing excellent composure, skill and vision on the ball, I am not going to list them. Earlier this season when Fellaini came into the team, the wise men of redcafe deemed that we were playing route one football. I was at my wits end to try to explain how actually, we were not, but for some people they seem to watch a game (or not, perhaps) and just see what they want to see. I think it is a similar case with you here, Rozay, if you really think that Fellaini is "not particularly talented".
He will cause top teams in the CL problems especially with the state of defending across Europe. A lot of ball playing defenders, but not many will like what he brings to the table. Not many in the world like him with what hes currently doing right now.
You've basically made the point that Fellaini isn't as good at passing as Oscar, Cesc, and isn't as good as Iniesta, or Zidane... which literally no one would argue with.
Fellaini's playing to his strength in our team, there's no need for him to be smashing 30/40 yard passes around the pitch because a) that's not his strength and b) that's not what we need him to do. I'm pretty certain if you plonked Fellaini in a League Two team, he would be the bloke playing the best passes on the pitch, because his footballing ability would be far, far greater than those around him.
Am I the only one who thought he
A guy I know played football with Steve Staunton at his first club in Ireland (Dundalk) and said that his touch and technique was bang average. Would have been several players in the team far better on the ball than him. However, his work-rate and desire was unbelievable and that's what set him apart on the pitch. So I do kind of agree that not all top flight footballers necessarily have better technique than park players. With Fellaini, specifically, though I would say he's actually quite good on the ball. His touch is fairly consistent and weight and consistency of pass is also one of his strengths. Both of which would be better than 99% of amateur players.
He's also got no obvious weaker foot. Another element of his "technique" that makes him a very effective player and sets him apart from most footballers, amateur and professional
A guy I know played football with Steve Staunton at his first club in Ireland (Dundalk) and said that his touch and technique was bang average. Would have been several players in the team far better on the ball than him. However, his work-rate and desire was unbelievable and that's what set him apart on the pitch. So I do kind of agree that not all top flight footballers necessarily have better technique than park players. With Fellaini, specifically, though I would say he's actually quite good on the ball. His touch is fairly consistent and weight and consistency of pass is also one of his strengths. Both of which would be better than 99% of amateur players.
He's also got no obvious weaker foot. Another element of his "technique" that makes him a very effective player and sets him apart from most footballers, amateur and professional
He won't because top teams will let him control the ball, and then they will press him, he is fine in England because coaches think that physical dominance is the be-all end-all. Just look at Ibrahimovic, he is better than Fellaini at everything Fellaini is great at, but Ibrahimovic isn't a problem in CL.
Remains to be seen. I dont see Ibrahimovic and Fellaini as comparable at all especially the way both are used and deployed.
He's obviously doing excellently and I'm delighted for him, but I didn't think the long ball outlet to him would be such a dominant weapon as it is currently proving. Teams simply aren't able to cope with that ball out to him on the inside left. It's proving to be a brilliant outlet in big games in particular where starting attacks by keeping it in the floor isn't easy.
Aren't Dundalk a professional/semi-professional football club though? So I mean, already everyone playing there would be better than your majority of Sunday league footballers... I imagine your mate himself would have been pretty handy!
He's torn apart 3 teams that employ a high pressing, technical approach in the last few weeks. I'd argue he struggles more when we play physical teams.
I know that technique isn't just first touch, I wasn't sure I said it was, sorry if that was implied. In United-focused discussions about Fellaini, it is also very much about chest-control.
I think Ravel is a fair example, because he ultimately didn't make it at United, and generally finds himself playing at a lower level of football than Felli, including spending much of last season in the Championship. This is an example of a player who is not less gifted than Fellaini.
As for point 3, that is probably right in most cases I would agree. I don't think that means that those who play in the PL are by default all technically superior. Chris Smalling would struggle in a PL midfield, but he has some qualities that mean, in the right conditions, he can be very good - those conditions being at centre-half. Likewise, Fellaini has also shown to struggle in the actual 'midfield' due to his technical deficiencies not allowing him to compete at such level of play. However, his strengths, if used correctly, have shown to make him threatening further forward.
Wayne Rooney is far more talented than Inzaghi was. Both were top level strikers. The fact that Rooney is far more talented means that he can also play in midfield in a decent level. Despite the fact that he was a 'professional footballer', and a very effective one at that - Inzaghi was probably not talented enough to play midfield at a level much higher than League 2.
Fair points - I do think your underplaying Fellaini's not so obvious strengths though.
Only one of these is actually good, and Arsenal managed him alright at the exception of 20mn.
Nah. When he's in the mood the guy is literally unplayable no matter what team.
It is. The most striking thing is their decision making, though. They just do the right things all the time without neccesarily looking extraordinary.
Still don't believe I'm any worse than Andy Carroll who is, in all honesty, the only notable player in PL's history whom I don't feel inferior to.
Fellaini's best matches for us this season have arguably been against the big sides. He is, and always has been a big game player. City tried to stick Toure on him and look what happened.
You almost sound like Fellaini is your fat girlfriend and you are embarrassed to take him out into the CL for fear that the other boys [teams] will laugh at you.
I still remember his 5 minute cameo when he came on for Liverpool against Chelsea at The Bridge a few years ago. The clip is knocking around on Youtube. There is nothing that will convince me that you could not find a non-professional who is able ot handle the ball better than that.
Lucky me, three different times you addressed me since my last post only a few hours ago!
So now in order to use the word 'hate' one must be younger than 16? Haters gonna hate!
And this post doesn't even make sense, I suggested Fellaini is better than those random blokes you play football with and better than league 2 level but now you are suggesting I said Fellaini is better than Iniesta, Hazard and Zidane…
Let's clear things up for you, make them a little more simple:
Fellaini is better at football than League 2 level and also he is better than those random blokes you play football with.
Fellaini is not better at football than Iniesta, Hazard and Zidane.
Now in your reply make more sense.
Andy Carroll couldn't do what Fellaini does in midfield, Louis van Gaal has stated he offers the balance needed with Carrick and Herrera in there. He does a lot more than 'height and nuisance' as you put it just a few posts back.
'bitching', Are you a 16 year old girl?
Have your irony back!
So now in order to use the word 'hate' one must be younger than 16? Haters gonna hate!
And this post doesn't even make sense, I suggested Fellaini is better than those random blokes you play football with and better than league 2 level but now you are suggesting I said Fellaini is better than Iniesta, Hazard and Zidane…
Let's clear things up for you, make them a little more simple:
Fellaini is better at football than League 2 level and also he is better than those random blokes you play football with.
Fellaini is not better at football than Iniesta, Hazard and Zidane.
Now in your reply make more sense.
Andy Carroll couldn't do what Fellaini does in midfield, Louis van Gaal has stated he offers the balance needed with Carrick and Herrera in there. He does a lot more than 'height and nuisance' as you put it just a few posts back.
'bitching', Are you a 16 year old girl?
Have your irony back!
Last edited:
That works for every good player, Fellaini isn't peculiar. When Young is in the mood, he is unplayable, when Valencia is in the mood he is unplayable.
You are all overrating Fellaini, he is applying perfectly his scripted role (which is a great quality, players like that are extremely valuable like Park was), but he isn't alone Young, Blind, Mata, Carrick and Herrera, are doing great too.
Some of them are even better than Fellaini, I feel that we have been so unfair with Fellaini that some posters are going overboard in the other way.
They're in the Irish top flight. Which isn't saying much! My mate would have looked different class in a Sunday league side but never played for Dundalk's first team. So basically, yes, I agree with you.
And you sound like my fat girlfriend who thinks that I'm a mix between Brad Pitt(for the body) and Stephen Hawking(for the brain).
Lucky me, three different times you addressed me since my last post only a few hours ago!
So now in order to use the word 'hate' one must be younger than 16? Haters gonna hate!
And this post doesn't even make sense, I suggested Fellaini is better than those random blokes you play football with and better than league 2 level but now you are suggesting I said Fellaini is better than Iniesta, Hazard and Zidane…
Let's clear things up for you, make them a little more simple:
Fellaini is better at football than League 2 level and also he is better than those random blokes you play football with.
Fellaini is not better at football than Iniesta, Hazard and Zidane.
Now in your reply make more sense.
Andy Carroll couldn't do what Fellaini does in midfield, Louis van Gaal has stated he offers the balance needed with Carrick and Herrera in there. He does a lot more than 'height and nuisance' as you put it just a few posts back.
'bitching', Are you a 16 year old girl?
Go away Empire.
I've seen that. The look on Glen Johnson's face after another Carroll's bit of action
. There was also a lengthy compilation of his performance for Geordies at OT (his last one for them against us). It contained a vast amount of some brutal acts of miscontrol and some sorry attempts at balance while turning with the ball. I initially thought it was made by our fans ridiculing him or something before I learned it was seen as a fabulous target man's performance by Newcastle fans who released it as an apparent 'textbook' game from him. Well, it was in a way.
He will not. Be prepared to be quoted for the next few months. He's coming after you!
People saying Fellaini's only attributes stem from physicality are harsh to say the least. He's got good technique for starters when he has the confidence. His controlled finish against Tottenham with his weaker foot was perfect. He also has an eye for goal and is mentally strong actually, again - when confident. He grasped the tactics as well and as Van Gaal said does what he's told and lets others perform magic.
Hang on I'm trying to make myself look smart?
I honestly don't care what posters on a forum think of me, I don't even care what those who I know think of me! Why would I come onto a forum and try to 'look smart', I mean what would I possibly get out of it?
I'm sorry but it is my opinion that uneducated people trying to survive in the developing world can be and probably are more intelligent than those with 'degrees', their intelligence expresses itself in a different way that's all. I don't consider myself smart, there is no such thing. It's a perception some people have, they think they are smart, I don't think they are.
Furthermore in response to Rozay's posts, I don't think I was right regarding Fellaini. I was a critic of his but despite Rozay and I both criticising his performances we disagreed over his ability, I maintained he was good enough for the premiership but he felt his level was more suited to league 2.
You can dig through my posts, that's fine, I also haven't said I don't like it so not sure where you've made that up from. I just found it funny you missed the point completely! And Fellaini has done enough to show he is good enough for the premiership even when he is moved on from United.
Knocked me down another peg eh? You and your love of missing the point! Last season Rozay states Fellaini performed poor and he knows random blokes he has played football with who are better, empire replies he has performed poor but is good enough for the premiership, you quote a post where empire states he'd rather have signed strootman, thiago or de rossi thinking it has relevance.
The purpose of these forums is to have a bit of fun and discuss football, that's all we are doing. Why else spend your time on it? Certainly not to 'look smart' I hope.
Haha. Not only that, we gain 30 yards, beat the midfield press and the opposition has Mata running at their goal
The idea that Fellaini is 'not PL standard' technically or anything like that needs to die now. He clearly is up to it. He manages just fine when the ball is at his feet. Obviously he isn't perfect but he's more than adequate for the EPL, and would be fine in Europe I think.
I dont think I sound like that at all, but your statement does at least show some consistency to your delusion
I dont think I sound like that at all, but your statement does at least show some consistency to your delusion
What delusion ? And I was joking.How strong is he? Is there a single player in the premiershit that would actually outmuscle him? Are there anyone in the league that would beat him in the air?
I believe that he is the strongest player in the league, and that no one would beat him in the air. Not only is he 758cm tall but his jumping is crazy too.
I wonder if Vidic in his prime would've beaten him in the air?
I believe that he is the strongest player in the league, and that no one would beat him in the air. Not only is he 758cm tall but his jumping is crazy too.
I wonder if Vidic in his prime would've beaten him in the air?
His compatriot Big Ben would give him a run for his money, and regularly beats centre-halves aerially as opposed to pulling on to full-backs. Fellaini is a monster though, and confidence is definitely playing a part. I remember last season there were games, I think Bayern at Old Trafford was an example, where he won nothing. Think it might have been Alaba out-jumping him all night.
The milan team we beat with park was nothing short of mediocre.
Hang on I'm trying to make myself look smart?
I honestly don't care what posters on a forum think of me, I don't even care what those who I know think of me! Why would I come onto a forum and try to 'look smart', I mean what would I possibly get out of it?
I'm sorry but it is my opinion that uneducated people trying to survive in the developing world can be and probably are more intelligent than those with 'degrees', their intelligence expresses itself in a different way that's all. I don't consider myself smart, there is no such thing. It's a perception some people have, they think they are smart, I don't think they are.
Are you actually mental?
The actual seperating factor when it comes to touch / technique between professionals isn't really the touch or technique in and of itself, but rather the speed with which the professional operates.
Sure, you could find tricksters and talented players with great touch / technique, but as anyone who's played football and moved at some point moved to a higher level at some point will attest to, the differentiating factor is the speed of thought and handling the ball.
And as such, it's pretty pointless discussing whether or not someone may or may not have "better" touchnique (see what I did there?) than Fellaini, because unless they've practiced at a very high level they would be completely lost no matter how silky their touch is.
Sure, you could find tricksters and talented players with great touch / technique, but as anyone who's played football and moved at some point moved to a higher level at some point will attest to, the differentiating factor is the speed of thought and handling the ball.
And as such, it's pretty pointless discussing whether or not someone may or may not have "better" touchnique (see what I did there?) than Fellaini, because unless they've practiced at a very high level they would be completely lost no matter how silky their touch is.
Does this mean we should consider signing Gestede? He's a better Fellaini than the man himself, so why not?
Look obviously I don't think that Fellaini can perform in every single game and we've seen that already this season. Sometimes he just goes missing. But he may actually surprise you even against the best teams. It all depends on whether his teammates can get the ball to him. Personally, I and many other people on the caf believe that he can be a menace to even the best teams in the world in this form. Your preference for more technically gifted players is just that. A preference. What I like about this team right now is that we have a variety of weapons and teams just don't know how to cope with our team as a whole. Fellaini is a very important weapon to have even against the best teams.
You don't half come out with some barmy player assessments. If you're joking then I apologise in advance.
- Status