Oh yes I agree 100%.
And I hope that when we finally get these people in they will be smart enough to see that players like Arnautovic are not the way forward.
Marko Arnautovic
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And I hope that when we finally get these people in they will be smart enough to see that players like Arnautovic are not the way forward.
Arnautovic would be a very good signing if we could get him on the cheap. But that isn't gonna happen, so I agree we should look at the bigger picture for the long term.
He would be almost a panic buy as he's not that much better than Lukaku at the moment. Maybe wait for the summer, perhaps with new manager to find a proper technical goalscorer ?
So hard to say what Mou and the board are up to and what is the real plan if any.
So hard to say what Mou and the board are up to and what is the real plan if any.
Any guess what he would cost?
With over 3years left on the contract my guess is north of 40m
With over 3years left on the contract my guess is north of 40m
No thanks, we should not be looking at Mourinho players. But since the club has no clue about a DoF or the next manager, we also cant target players for next season.
He should have been signed from Stoke, not from West Ham, so a hard pass from me. It’s not like Arnautovic is anywhere near a top striker, but he does have that x factor which is needed at times. I like him after he settled down a bit, cut that faux-Zlatan ponytail and understood he had to work extra hard to be close to his ability.
The problem is that we didn’t sign him from Stoke, we have people hired whose job is to judge these things before it becomes obvious to the average fan. Would I want him here? Yes. Is he better than than Lukaku? Certainly. But for 50M at 30 and a huge contract for four years? Hell no, he isn’t Lewandowski after all.
The problem is that we didn’t sign him from Stoke, we have people hired whose job is to judge these things before it becomes obvious to the average fan. Would I want him here? Yes. Is he better than than Lukaku? Certainly. But for 50M at 30 and a huge contract for four years? Hell no, he isn’t Lewandowski after all.
Is this really what it’s come too ? Where we’re the richest club in the world yet this is the player we’re apparently looking at to rescue our fecking season ? Really ?
I’d much rather we just keep our money and add it to the HUGE fecking war chest the next manager is going to need to fix the mistakes of the past 5 years and add the quality needed, this should NOT include signing fecking Arnautovic.
I’d much rather we just keep our money and add it to the HUGE fecking war chest the next manager is going to need to fix the mistakes of the past 5 years and add the quality needed, this should NOT include signing fecking Arnautovic.
What is James Beattie up to these days?
This has probably come from Arnautovic’s side, it’s no secret that he is considering leaving.
Signing Arnautovic,and possibly Witsel, would be so typical of us.
Turns 30 in April and is 6.ft 2. That's all Mourinho looks for in a footballer. Age and height. Needs another player like Matic, old and tall.
Won't happen. Ed will simply tell West Ham and Mourinho to feck off.
I agree with this 100%
Build for the future, this season is a write off now anyway and lukaku is playing like a lad who’s new to the game. He’s been a hinderence more than anything. I wish we’d gone for Icardi. We aren’t catching city with this squad and manager either way. Let’s try to build the next great team. We have the resources. We just need to be smart. Chiesa, Neves, De Jong, De Ligt, Sancho, sessegnon... players like that. They are gettable if we really go all in for them.
This situation is becoming such a joke, even I’m laughing.
It is hilarious that at the beginning of last season, we bought Lukaku and Chelsea bought Morata only for both our managers to be disappointed in how bad both strikers turned out to be as target men.
Chelsea, allegedly, ended up chasing every big lump around including the likes of Ashely Barnes and Crouch, and eventually ended up with Giroud. We have been trying to sign Mandzukic and Arnautovic; I wonder who we will actually end up with. Andy Caroll?
Chelsea, allegedly, ended up chasing every big lump around including the likes of Ashely Barnes and Crouch, and eventually ended up with Giroud. We have been trying to sign Mandzukic and Arnautovic; I wonder who we will actually end up with. Andy Caroll?
We have better strikers at Sanchez and Rashford, but Lukaku is still the main striker. Buying anyone is a moot point at this time.
utter donkey. prefer Lukaku by miles
Target men = Target Europa League
What like Juve and Real?
No for us. But since you did bring them up - I'm sure that Juventus will be much more successful almost instantly since they have the option of Ronaldo upfront instead of purely Mandzukic or the lacklustre Higuain. Likewise Real Madrid's Benzema is not a target man, he plays much more like a false 9 who utilises space and on the floor football to create chances towards inverted forwards (https://www.marca.com/2014/03/23/en/football/spanish_football/1395568457.html). Morata and higuain were target men for Real madrid and the latter in particular was favouritised a bit more at Real Madrid under Jose.
Target men who are made to stay still in certain areas in central positions to bring others in to play are much easier to defend against these days in my opinion and tends to break up play much more than being consistent as creators. This is more like strikers Ibrahimovic, Mandzukic, Higuain, Lukaku, Morata that stay still to recieve the ball than strikers like Lewandowski and Kane who have the ability to play like target men but equally take the oppurtunity to run behind the defensive lines as forwards ( ie they are not made to play as pure target men that bring others in to play; more so to finish of chances).
Anyway it's just my opinion - We as a club without Lukaku (the overweight target man version) have Sanchez, Martial, Rashford & Lukaku (the slimmer run behind lines version) who can potentially play together in partnerships as pure forwards making runs behind the defence than play as stagnant players to recieve balls from over the top passes.
I see one being more successful than the other - and if that was the case the last thing we need is another Striker. Arguably thats up there with one of the strongest 4 strikers United have had in a single squad in a long time but the manager only plays with one striker up top; so we are suddenly required to waste money on another striker
Just play 2 upfront and Arnautovic will be nothing more than a waste of money.
Almost as if you cant hold the ball, bring others in to play and then make runs when you have support.
Aye because we play football on the ground and not hoofed balls from goalkeeper to target man
. Making a pass to bring others in to play after shielding the ball is one thing ( something Martial does better than Lukaku) yet Lukaku is used more because he is the bigger guys, the taller guy who has gotten bigger to help him control the balls that we send over the top. To controle these balls and bring others to play and then make another run is much harder thing to do when balls are coming over the top rather than on the floor. This is why Lukaku has struggled to make any sort of runs behind the defensive lines because he is focused with his back towards the goal trying to control the ball and bring others in to play from balls that need to be controlled in that way.
Firminho, Benzema, Messi are players who either run in to space created by other players or are players themselves who can bring inverted forwards in to play - as Benzema did with Ronaldo or how Messi did with david villa or with how Firminho brings Mane or Salah in to play.
Even if you disagree - tell me why in your eyes that our ONLY OPTION is to persist with Lukaku as a single target man (hence needing an additional target man) in comparison to playing with two strikers (from Rashford, Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku) and have them sharing the workload, the goal scoring burden inbetween them.
To make matters even worse - Playing with two strikers would cancel the need for us to go for a RW like Willian or Perisic as we can then have crossing abilities coming purely from wingbacks in comparison to whole 10 of the team crossing the ball to a single target man - whilst watching how it ends up being controlled like a coin flipping heads or tails.
Aye because we play football on the ground and not hoofed balls from goalkeeper to target man
This is why Lukaku has struggled to make any sort of runs behind the defensive lines because he is focused with his back towards the goal trying to control the ball and bring others in to play from balls that need to be controlled in that way.
Firminho, Benzema, Messi are players who either run in to space created by other players or are players themselves who can bring inverted forwards in to play - as Benzema did with Ronaldo or how Messi did with david villa or with how Firminho brings Mane or Salah in to play.
Even if you disagree - tell me why in your eyes that our ONLY OPTION is to persist with Lukaku as a single target man (hence needing an additional target man) in comparison to playing with two strikers (from Rashford, Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku) and have them sharing the workload, the goal scoring burden inbetween them.
To make matters even worse - Playing with two strikers would cancel the need for us to go for a RW like Willian or Perisic as we can then have crossing abilities coming purely from wingbacks in comparison to whole 10 of the team crossing the ball to a single target man - whilst watching how it ends up being controlled like a coin flipping heads or tails.
The build up play and transitions are poor. We do not have a defence that is comfortable on the ball and we have zero width. Lukaku would also prefer the ball played to his feet so he can spin off the initial lay off.
Whatever people want to say, the build up from the defence is not good and there is no width in this team, from either the fullbacks or from the fact that we have no proper wingers.
Correct. Yet the amazing thing is many people on here imagine it has no direct effect on a team's ability to play fluid attacking football.
I must watch different games as i don't see us constantly lumping it from goalie to Lukaku like some see.
We only need width because we continue to play a target man upfront. The whole squad is more wider than it needs to be attempting to play crosses in to a single individual.
If we play 2 Central strikers - who happen to play football that attempts to get behind the defence what we then require is a number 10 like mata or better who creates chances for a striker centrally.
There is absolutely no need for a winger in this squad - we don't have a LW that is a pure LW more so than a FW either.
Someone like Ashley Young provides the adequate amount of crosses a team would need - yet we need so much more simply because we continue to use target men whilst having 4 wonderfully capable strikers.
I'm not saying we don't need a ball playing defender either - but Jose's need for a ball playing defender is to get the ball out from deep on the counter attack out wide to a winger who ends up crossing again to a god damn target man.
In a scenario where we play with two centre forwards our creativity is supposed to come from the middle - more from the midfield than the CB. That's because a team playing 2 strikers can't play counterattacking football 24-7 as that would leave the rest of the team outnumbered.
Jose does not want to change his tactics. That is the only reason he wants another target man, requires another 1990's hard working winger that attempts to cross to this target man after receiving the ball from a ball playing defender on the counterattack.
Absolutely no need for arnautovic. That's 5 strikers at his disposal.
Did you watch the game yesterday - it wasn't the goal keeper but it was Shaw that literally lumped the ball to Lukaku that got felliani to score a goal.
It may not be directly the goal keeper all the time - because Jose likes the wide players getting the ball early on the counter to cross balls in - but the lumping of the ball happens and is a standard tactic followed by 10 players at a time.
You have a different definition of lumping the ball in. Shaw crossed the ball in the final third. Most of the game was spent trying to pass it in across the floor and work it around the box and Shaw was constantly invovled in that.
We didn't bypass midfield at all last night apart from a few occasions late on
Okay Yeh - that's my fault - there was an interesting thread open a couple of days ago with some fans saying they are tired of the crosses and lumping of the balls 24/7 - that's what I'm talking about - the constant airline trajectory of our passes and wondering if every cross or lump is going to be controlled or is it going to land at the oppositions head, or is it going to end up a corner or is it going to lend up with the goal keeper or felliani or out of play - or as seen yesterday - a goal.
It's just not very systemic and a controlled type of football & has an element of luck to it that can't be maintained for longer than 3 years at a time in my opinion.
I was totally against this signing. But I'm coming round to it. He ticks the boxes we need at the moment, and may bring out the best in players around him.
This is just wrong. City for example don't employ a target man. Neither do Liverpool. But they both constantly attack from either flank stretching teams then crossing to danger areas or to the man, consequently creating tonnes of chances with the space it creates for their attacking players. United has zero width and the need for width has zero to do with targeting a single fella in the middle.
Even Real Madrid with a diamond and a number 10 needed the width provided by Marcelo and Caravahal to be effective. If we dared play a 2 striker system as well are now we'd fair horrendously.
Wingers are irrelevant. Natural width rather is relevant.
our right flank is dead! We dont have a right back who offers natural width comsistently. Nor do we have a natural right sided winger/wide forward who offers it further upfield. On the left our width is usually fine. All our wide forwards are comfortable offering width there. We only occassionally run imto problems when opponent sus out our use of an inside out fullback when Shaw is out. Worst of all because we only really attack well down that flank. We are super easy to defend against.
His crosses from the left are in effective. Due to us having nothing on the opposite flank
I insist this is just wrong. I need of width has absolutely nothing to do with using a target man. Its needed literally for everything system we could ever use to enable us play fluid attacking football.
No. Having ball playing defenders allows you to a) play through the lines into midfield b) operate with a much higher line recycling possesion much higher up pitch with ease and c) exploit transitions of play better.
The notion that they are needed to just pass wide and feed a target man is laughable.
United's lack of width has zilch to do with old school wingers or use of target men. We simply plain lack any that is why our creativity is low. We also have need of ball playing center halves to recycle possession faster, more purposefully through the lines of midfield and higher up the pitch, which would increase our passing options, our space to operate in and our creativity as a team when we have the ball. Its that simple.
He is a very short term fix to a much bigger problem. When I think of Manchester United I think of top class players, not players of Arnautovic's calibre !!
Hoofing the ball up to a big centre forward lacks imagination and is more suited to clubs like Burnley not United.
Hoofing the ball up to a big centre forward lacks imagination and is more suited to clubs like Burnley not United.
Terrible logic when you consider how the Fred and Sanchez transfers have turned out so far. We are Manchester United, not Manchester City.
Absolute fecking bullshit. There are teams who do not use a target man who make great use of width. We played with two strikers under SAF and we always had width. What a terrible post. To top it off you try to say Ashley Young is enough
. It’s not just about number of crosses. It’s about quality of cross. Quality to beat a man, quality to transition play, quality to link play.
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We are so bad. 25 vacuous multi millionaires can’t kick a ball around well enough for us. Why can’t they? Weren’t they all fairly close to top of the range footballers before we got them? they certainly demanded world class wages... or else they are just highly rated youngsters who seem to come to nothing here these days either. our recruitment is so weak. On paper we seem to target the right players but it never seeems to work out in reality.... we have to be due a bit of luck with a signing or 2 again soon though. Fred does look pretty good....
He's extended his contract with West Ham
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2019/january/26-january/arnautovic-signs-contract-extension
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2019/january/26-january/arnautovic-signs-contract-extension
He's extended his contract with West Ham
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2019/january/26-january/arnautovic-signs-contract-extension
Good way to win back the fans I suppose, whilst securing a pay rise in the process!
Good keep by West Ham to be fair.
I heard he has only extended by a further month but his wages have gone up. Agents have done their job.
He's extended his contract with West Ham
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2019/january/26-january/arnautovic-signs-contract-extension
Marko Arnautovic referring to himself in the third person might be the least surprising thing about this entire saga.
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