Manchester United Ladies Football Club.

[Sammyjunn]

Not all the community work that United do is for the less fortunate - but I digress - it gives girls, something to aspire too, show's how football is an inclusive sport, and it would also help the image of women's football. Getting kids into sports is always a good thing in my book.

And just because Arsenal only get a couple of hundred fans doesn't mean that a) we can't strive for more and b) we shouldn't do our bit to help improve those attendance figures. By all accounts, women's football is something of a minor growth market, so there can be potential to do better.

Fair enough, that's indeed community work. First of all I think with all the money the clubs make, they are almost obliged to do charity work, giving to the poor in Africa for example etc etc.

But on the other side, I dont know the exact figures, but if this keeps getting bigger, we have more teams (looks like there is already an u17 team), more contracts are paid, bigger contracts are paid, but yet the money it is bringing doesnt compensate, are the club obliged to take responsibility for this? It's something that imo the club should do if they want to, but they dont have to. Imo they arent obliged to take responsibility in this aspect, as it's their money they are putting in this. This discussion started with you saying the club should take responsibility, but in terms of community work, isnt that out of free will? If not, where does it ends? There are thousands of ways of helping the community, should this be on the club's shoulders?

i think the club are considering to have a ladies team, we already have an u17, and I doubt that if these girls get older they'll just be sent away because of their age, so surely they must be thinking about implementing a first team for ladies.

Im not against ladies football, but if it isnt profitable, I dont think the club is obliged or should implement this. While when it is profitable, there arent any negatives as you help the community and make profit, then it should be implemented. At the end of the day, and with the money in the club, clubs are huge companies which have to make decisions.

In my first post I said dont do it, after what you said about it, my point of view rather is, the club shouldnt be obliged do it, if it has no profit.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

To those using Arsenal's gate figures as a argument against - the men's game in the UK was built up over a century in a country where there was previously no nationally organised football, whilst the women's has grown up recently in the shadow of the men's game.

It's a vicious cycle - the men's game is established so it has far more money. It can therefore invest that money into hiring the best coaches, building the best facilities and paying professional players who get better at football as a day-job. The women's game doesn't have the benefits of that money so the standard is generally lower, gate numbers are lower and the sport therefore doesn't have the pull of the men's game. It therefore doesn't attract the same sponsorship and broadcasting interest and the cycle continues.

I have absolutely no doubt that if clubs like United took the women's game more seriously (starting by just having a fecking team) that'd start to change. I don't know about you guys, but when I was playing football as a kid my aim was to play for Manchester United, not simply to play professionally. I imagine its the same for a lot of girls out there - if there's literally zero chance of them ever playing for the team they support, young girls are less likely to engage in the sport in the first place. I love football and still play twice a week, but at a young age (certainly until I was about 12) I wouldn't have practiced half as much or been so passionate about it if I'd known from the start that there was no way I'd ever play for Manchester United.

Aside from that, if male football fans can't get excited about fixtures like the Manchester derby or the Manchester United vs. Liverpool just because of the gender of the players on the pitch then there's something seriously wrong with them.

 

[Sammyjunn]

[QUOTE="jeff_goldblum, post: 17464396, member: 63291"
Aside from that, if male football fans can't get excited about fixtures like the Manchester derby or the Manchester United vs. Liverpool just because of the gender of the players on the pitch then there's something seriously wrong with them.[/QUOTE]
I think that's really an unfair judgement, besides the people who live in that part of England, it is something you cant really expect. United vs Liverpool is such a big match too because of the level, because of the heat, because of the rivalry and bevause they are the two biggest clubs in England, that doesnt magically transform to women football besides that the two cities historically have a rivalry two. A ladies match between those 2 is just not near the same, as it holds no history, no heat, and the level too isnt the same. It wouldnt be hard to explain why men wouldnt get excited, how many people go the manchester derby u16 or 18, is there a difference between those matches and the others. The rivalries are by far the most in the first team, they have the most content, that isnt due to gender.

 

[stevoc]

I have absolutely no doubt that if clubs like United took the women's game more seriously (starting by just having a fecking team) that'd start to change. I don't know about you guys, but when I was playing football as a kid my aim was to play for Manchester United, not simply to play professionally. I imagine its the same for a lot of girls out there - if there's literally zero chance of them ever playing for the team they support, young girls are less likely to engage in the sport in the first place. I love football and still play twice a week, but at a young age (certainly until I was about 12) I wouldn't have practiced half as much or been so passionate about it if I'd known from the start that there was no way I'd ever play for Manchester United.

That's true actually, my niece was United and football mad from the ages of 6-11 (she is 15 now) played everyday and even got involved in a local girls team. Once she was old enough to really understand she could never actually play for United and they didn't have a women's team she slowly lost interest in playing and now for the most part in even supporting United which is a shame.

Aside from that, if male football fans can't get excited about fixtures like the Manchester derby or the Manchester United vs. Liverpool just because of the gender of the players on the pitch then there's something seriously wrong with them.

That's harsh mate, United regularly play City and Liverpool at various levels from u13 to u21 yet most United fans myself included would have little interest in it and gender has nothing to do with that.

Most of us only have so much spare time and so focus pretty much 99% of our support onto the first team i personally don't think that means there's something wrong with us.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

@stevoc @Sammyjunn


I'd say a difference between a potential women's derby and the youth team ones is that youth team games are for development and professional/top level games are purely for competition. Completely different mindsets and purposes, especially in recent years where coaches have come round to the idea the big and strong lads who stand out and dominate in their age group aren't necessarily the most talented, and pick their teams accordingly.

Further to that, I'd argue that what makes the first team matches more intense is that the players from either team have their own personal histories. Players like Kompany and Rooney have been at the respective clubs for years and have built up an affinity and a passion - the same would undoubtedly develop in the women's game. In comparison the youth teams are less set in stone. Players come and go with enormous regularity at youth level, there's not the level of consistency that breeds the 'us vs. them' mentality that we see in the big derbies.

 

[Sammyjunn]

@stevoc @Sammyjunn


I'd say a difference between a potential women's derby and the youth team ones is that youth team games are for development and professional/top level games are purely for competition. Completely different mindsets and purposes, especially in recent years where coaches have come round to the idea the big and strong lads who stand out and dominate in their age group aren't necessarily the most talented, and pick their teams accordingly.

Further to that, I'd argue that what makes the first team matches more intense is that the players from either team have their own personal histories. Players like Kompany and Rooney have been at the respective clubs for years and have built up an affinity and a passion - the same would undoubtedly develop in the women's game. In comparison the youth teams are less set in stone. Players come and go with enormous regularity at youth level, there's not the level of consistency that breeds the 'us vs. them' mentality that we see in the big derbies.

That is true, but that would take a lot of years, when I think of the Manchester derby, recent things like the Neville-Scholes kiss, Tevez, Owen goal, Rooney goal, 6-1 (unwantedly), Aguero title winning goal come to mind, these were are huge events due to controversy, media hype and seeing it live and help to make a match that big. In women football, which is quite new, those factors are far far less and that's why its isnt weird to think that the fuss about it would be far far less, that's very understandable. When it comes to rival matches in youth, the competition is still visible, development is in the bigger picture. Because at first, every manager and every player in the academy wants to win, but at the same time, development is the primary objective. These things arent complerely opposite to eachother.

 

[Tribec]

I know we had a women's team, one of my school friends played for them just after we left school around 1988 onwards. It was stopped mid 90's and hasn't been seen since then. The women's game is slowly building up momentum in terms of crowd figures and money in the game. It's about time that United should look to reintroduce the women's team.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

Doesn't really bother me one bit that we don't have a women's team, that's probably because I know zero girls who even play competitive football.

Also not having a Women's team hardly makes us backward, especially if we got no real incentives to do so, all it means is that we just don't have a Women's team.

 

[stevoc]

@stevoc @Sammyjunn


I'd say a difference between a potential women's derby and the youth team ones is that youth team games are for development and professional/top level games are purely for competition. Completely different mindsets and purposes, especially in recent years where coaches have come round to the idea the big and strong lads who stand out and dominate in their age group aren't necessarily the most talented, and pick their teams accordingly.

Different mindsets for the players taking part but probably not for the majority of fans.

I get what you are saying but rightly or wrongly if United started a women's team the majority of fans would always see it as a lesser standard and less important than the first team just like the academy sides which is why i compared them.

The first team has over 100 years of history i don't see any other team United field be it youth, women's, reserve etc. ever being thought of as equal or even as remotely as important as the first team in the minds of the majority of United fans.

Further to that, I'd argue that what makes the first team matches more intense is that the players from either team have their own personal histories. Players like Kompany and Rooney have been at the respective clubs for years and have built up an affinity and a passion - the same would undoubtedly develop in the women's game. In comparison the youth teams are less set in stone. Players come and go with enormous regularity at youth level, there's not the level of consistency that breeds the 'us vs. them' mentality that we see in the big derbies.

That type of rivalry would only be built up over many many years but more importantly lets not forget much of the intense rivalry between United and City/Liverpool is fan driven. Would the women's teams draw that big a crowd to even warrant the big games ever being televised on a regular basis?

Without the numbers watching live to in turn generate interest among the rest of the fans who would watch through other mediums i just don't see the rivalry ever being that intense or important to the average United fan and that doesn't mean there is something wrong with them, it's just how it is.

 

[Nanook]

But on the other side, I dont know the exact figures, but if this keeps getting bigger, we have more teams (looks like there is already an u17 team), more contracts are paid, bigger contracts are paid, but yet the money it is bringing doesnt compensate, are the club obliged to take responsibility for this?

The u17 girls players are not getting paid for playing for Manchester United, if we did have a women's team it would only be the first team that gets paid, and even then it's such a tiny amount it's almost not even worth worrying about if it's profitable of not.

 

[Sammyjunn]

The u17 girls players are not getting paid for playing for Manchester United, if we did have a women's team it would only be the first team that gets paid, and even then it's such a tiny amount it's almost not even worth worrying about if it's profitable of not.

I dont know how it works on professional basis, but isnt it a salary which a full time job should minimally get? I dont know how much this is in England, something near 20k minimum? (Correct me if wrong), and an entire squad with the staff and trainers added. And logically, if women football keeps getting bigger, the salaries will get higher amd eventually even the u21's for example could get paid, I think that would happen. But I dont know the figures.

 

[Ramshock]

Id like to see a womens Man Utd team. Id also like to see a Man Utd team for fat out of shape internet forum commandos who want that one last shot at the glory they never had. Thats just as likely I am afraid.

 

[Nanook]

I dont know how it works on professional basis, but isnt it a salary which a full time job should minimally get? I dont know how much this is in England, something near 20k minimum? (Correct me if wrong), and an entire squad with the staff and trainers added. And logically, if women football keeps getting bigger, the salaries will get higher amd eventually even the u21's for example could get paid, I think that would happen. But I dont know the figures.

There might be a dozen none playing staff on your average women's team, I bet you could quite easily run a team for less than £400k per year which is nothing to us. The only way the salaries will increase is if the women's game gets more popular and that would mean the clubs are making more money.

 

[steve zizou]

So are we really saying that all the clubs which have women's teams are running it at a loss? You know It has nothing to do with money when a clubs like Notts County and Doncaster can have women teams. Since were all apparently obsessed with profit, I guess that's why football clubs operate using the bottom line. I mean why should Man Utd reduce season ticket prices, when its going to eat into their profits?

 

[justboy68]

It's a bit sad to see supporters of a football club saying that they should only do something if it's profitable.

Indeed.

 

[The Mitcher]

As much as I'd want one, it'd be a big project. We'd have to start from scratch and in the bottom leagues, it'll take us ages to get to the likes of Arsenal Ladie's level.

 

[steve zizou]

The only way the salaries will increase is if the women's game gets more popular and that would mean the clubs are making more money.

Exactly! It's not like the club will be paying out 10k/wk wages to the players and staff. They'll all be paid industry rates which as many have already referenced, is less than 1 Falcao wage cheque.

 

[steve zizou]

As much as I'd want one, it'd be a big project. We'd have to start from scratch and in the bottom leagues, it'll take us ages to get to the likes of Arsenal Ladie's level.

Not really. City just came in and waved the cash. Suddenly they had Jill Scott in midfield headbutting people. United will have the money to attract the best pleyers if they wanted. Not forgetting the reputation of the club. It all depends how much the club wants to invest really.

Edit: Also a poorer club was demoted to make way for city.
Unfortunately money is tight in the women game so anyone coming in with a bit of money is going to succeed quickly. (See LFC ladies)

 

[Nighteyes]

As much as I'd want one, it'd be a big project. We'd have to start from scratch and in the bottom leagues, it'll take us ages to get to the likes of Arsenal Ladie's level.

Nah. Liverpool finished bottom one season and won the league the next. It's competitive as shit. Invest a bit and we'll do well. And I assume our name alone will be enough to attract some decent players.

As for bottom leagues, we all know what happened to Doncaster when City came with the money. When the league is new and growing organizers will make exceptions for teams like us.

 

[Nanook]

As much as I'd want one, it'd be a big project. We'd have to start from scratch and in the bottom leagues, it'll take us ages to get to the likes of Arsenal Ladie's level.

There's only 2 divisions in the women's game.

 

[Roux]

For one week of Falcao's wages we could probably put a senior team together, including the expenses for coaches, equipment etc. Quite sad really, would love to see a United ladies team.

Aside from the obvious, she's a bloody good player - definitely pushed the bar forward for ladies football in the last few years.

 

[The Mitcher]

There's only 2 divisions in the women's game.

Really?!

Not really. City just came in and waved the cash. Suddenly they had Jill Scott in midfield headbutting people. United will have the money to attract the best pleyers if they wanted. Not forgetting the reputation of the club. It all depends how much the club wants to invest really.

Edit: Also a poorer club was demoted to make way for city.
Unfortunately money is tight in the women game so anyone coming in with a bit of money is going to succeed quickly. (See LFC ladies)

I see, I guess it wouldn't hurt too much.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

I have no problem with having a women's team or not having a women's team.

But dictating to me what I should and shouldn't be watching or supporting is stepping over the line of 'personal choice'. I certainly don't see it 'as something seriously wrong with me' because I don't support the women's game.

There's lot's of things I don't support…why? I am just not interested.

I follow the English cricket but don't watch the women's game.

I follow athletics closely for both men and women.

But I predominantly watch men playing sport because that's my choice and preference.

 

[Hed Zitin]

Not bothered. I wouldn't watch it.

I'm sure we could find a few sponsors to pay for it if we wanted to.

 

[jojojo]

The top women players are on around £25k/year. Unless the rules have changed the clubs are only allowed to hire 4 of those "expensive" pros. Yes, there are still coaches to pay, kit to buy, grass to cut but the money involved is not going to stop any (men's team) transfer deal going ahead or even restrict a first team pay negotiation.

What can it do for United? Increase the connections between United and its community, buy it a "seat at the table" for when the increased TV coverage and live crowds (like the 50k who were at Wembley to watch an England women's game) mean that it starts to be a reasonable marketing expense or it starts to attract its own sponsors. Who knows. It's like asking what's the point of a baby

Not wanting an unsuccessful women's team, and therefore feeling obliged to commit a big team budget too early is perhaps our excuse for our inaction. I suspect we'll have one in the next few years.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

The Bayern Munich ladies team have won the league today.
They will celebrate with the men's team their championships on the Marienplatz in two weeks.

 

[Rado_N]

I've heard some rumblings about this recently; apparently it might not be too long before we see a United ladies team.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not really. City just came in and waved the cash. Suddenly they had Jill Scott in midfield headbutting people. United will have the money to attract the best pleyers if they wanted. Not forgetting the reputation of the club. It all depends how much the club wants to invest really.

Edit: Also a poorer club was demoted to make way for city.
Unfortunately money is tight in the women game so anyone coming in with a bit of money is going to succeed quickly. (See LFC ladies)

Doncaster Belles wasn't it, even though they had been around for years.

 

[Samid]

Watching City-Chelsea on BT right now, some nice sights on the pitch. We shold also be doing this.

 

[rednev]

I don't think the money excuse is a good one.

You could start and run a woman's team for just the cost of travel and a few other minor expenses - literally thousands of amateur football clubs (men's and women's) across the country are able to do this with virtually no income other than that generated from local fundraisers and local businesses. If the team can generate money exceeding these basic operating costs, then the players can be paid accordingly.

 

[Gopher Brown]

I can't imagine our U10s team is profitable, and actually all of our youth system is probably run at a deficit. That doesn't mean it's not a valid and important part of our club, and particularly the image we want to portray.

We should have a women's team, for the sake of the sport as a whole.

If you want to see it from a purely profit standpoint, it would help to gain more fans and increase our visibility which may result in us selling more pies at match days.

 

[Sammyjunn]

I can't imagine our U10s team is profitable, and actually all of our youth system is probably run at a deficit. That doesn't mean it's not a valid and important part of our club, and particularly the image we want to portray.

We should have a women's team, for the sake of the sport as a whole.

If you want to see it from a purely profit standpoint, it would help to gain more fans and increase our visibility which may result in us selling more pies at match days.

Well we use the academy to produce players for the first team, we sold Welbeck for 20 million euro's eventually..while last year we could have sold Januzaj for 40 million, the academy is far more profitable than a ladies team would ever be. It even produced our legends (class of 92) who won us prices, I dont think thinks more profitable than the academy come in football, ask Ajax or Barcelona.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Well we use the academy to produce players for the first team, we sold Welbeck for 20 million euro's eventually..while last year we could have sold Januzaj for 40 million, the academy is far more profitable than a ladies team would ever be. It even produced our legends (class of 92) who won us prices, I dont think thinks more profitable than the academy come in football, ask Ajax or Barcelona.

That's assuming there are no running costs or wages paid in the youth set up. I agree that Welbeck's sale has covered costs for a few years, but most of our youth players leave on a free or for a couple of million, which we've probably already paid them in wages.

 

[Sammyjunn]

That's assuming there are no running costs or wages paid in the youth set up. I agree that Welbeck's sale has covered costs for a few years, but most of our youth players leave on a free or for a couple of million, which we've probably already paid them in wages.

But we also dont have to buy other players for the squad position they fill in, that saves us money too. Now with the FFP for example, we dont have to buy other overpriced English players, for the homegrown rule.

 

[Rowem]

Who gives a feck about women's football.

 

[El Zoido]

I don't care about it personally but if there's interest then why not? I think in the future women's football will only gain in popularity so we should get on board sooner rather than later.

 

[Rowem]

That's assuming there are no running costs or wages paid in the youth set up. I agree that Welbeck's sale has covered costs for a few years, but most of our youth players leave on a free or for a couple of million, which we've probably already paid them in wages.

An academy is a money maker in the long run. Think of the number of first team appearances made by players produced with no transfer fee. Plus most youth players are on very low salaries until they are pushing at the first team door. Fryers rejected an offer of £1500 a week and he was a regularly in the reserves I believe. I presume the reserve and youth teams also bring in income from matchdays, sponsorship, tournament participation fees etc, and they're a selling point for MUTV subscriptions.

 

[Rowem]

I don't care about it personally but if there's interest then why not? I think in the future women's football will only gain in popularity so we should get on board sooner rather than later.

Would people support MUFC ladies just because they are a United supporter though? Maybe I'm different but I wouldn't feel any affiliation with them.

Also I think Women's Football should have their own clubs rather than having women's versions of existing mens teams.

 

[steve zizou]

Would people support MUFC ladies just because they are a United supporter though? Maybe I'm different but I wouldn't feel any affiliation with them.

Also I think Women's Football should have their own clubs rather than having women's versions of existing mens teams.

Anyway why wouldn't you feel any affiliation with them? Is it because they're females and you're a (supposedly)a man? Which judging by this quote:

Who gives a feck about women's football.

may have some truth to it.

Affiliation has nothing to do with interest. When you're affiliated with something(country, place, football club), you're naturally attached to all its activities. Imagine you turn your tv on and see that United Ladies were playing City, you may have no interest in the game whatsoever but who would you be supporting? 100% guarantee it won't be city. That's what affiliation is. It is why you would chose to watch an MUFC v Preston game over El Classico.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

I'd support Manchester United Women's Curling Team. Don't care much about football one...