Manchester United 2:2 Steven Gerrard's Villa (Sat 23rd July, 10:45 UK time)

IrishMcD said:
Same quotes we have been hearing for past few years from different managers. The one consistent? This group of players. They just are not good enough. I wonder how many “clean slates” are needed before the club realise they need to move the majority of them out of the club
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We don't have enough player turnover for this to change, you can only really change this when you commit to a few summers of actual rebuild which involves getting rid of a lot of players and signing a lot of players.
 
Wilt said:
Hope you’re right, though it seems he wants a contract extension. Most likely in the knowledge no other top European club will be chomping at the bit to sign him, and if so, at only a fraction of his current wages.
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If we extend his contract that’s insane on £375k per week

So Can’t see it tbf
 
wolvored said:
I think the worry for TH will be how SG changed it for Villa and we couldnt cope with it. We played 20 mins with the same team who were the better side in the first half and we had no answer to them in that 20 mins. The lat bit was mainly the kids and no one stood out. Yes the pitch was terrible, but its terrible for both sides, so how come they coped with it and we didnt? We wont have pitches like that in the Premier, but cup games maybe will have at some point. TH is right we need new signings and I think Eriksen and Martinez will be starters. Martial seemed to go back to being the frustrating player he is and some of Brunos passes were wild again. Fred too many mistakes and Lindelof and Maguire were also poor in parts.
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Totally correct, in the eredevise teams go 2-0 down against Ajax and give up in the PL that’s not the case so you have to be able to use the 5 substitutes tactically to win 3 points. We need squad reinforcements asap
 
People here must realize that pre-season is all about match fitness and getting the team to adapt to the manager's tactics. Making mistakes during pre-season is quite common and we are clearly on the positive trend despite today's game.

ETH has tried a different combination in midfield and attack where he is evaluating how the players can play in those positions. He is doing this in pre-season to see how far the team can adapt to different tactical approaches. It is the norm to see some issues.

Its clear that our attack is much more productive but there is an issue with how the defensive and central midfield can defend against opponent attacks. The way i see it, ETH will probably change the midfield shape to be more robust in defence.
 
You simply can't polish a turd...We have too many turds that will take time to recycle out for better players coming in.

ETH is clearly a good coach but McTom, Lindelof, De Gea et al aren't 18 year olds that can be significantly improved. These, among plenty of others, have, year after year shown they aren't capable at the level required. We can't necessarily move them all on now but suggesting they are capable of improving enough to warrant a place in our squad if we want to progress and compete at the top level again is way off. Accepting they are is why we are so mediocre ETH or no ETH.
 
Trouble is most of us are only getting to see our pre-season. We don't get to see how other teams are faring and the standard of opposition they are playing. It is a new manager who is trying different things and will now be working out who can go out on loan, who can go for good, where his new signings can fit in and what he still needs. He wants us to play good football that is a good sign surely.
 
Not too worried about that second half 20 minutes. Donny was missing for all but the first 5 minutes of the match. Trotting around letting player after player run by him. He was only involved in tight spaces when the ball was pinging around. Lindelof is not going to start in the PL unless injuries/fitness issues come up for the usual suspects. Bruno was all over the pitch and heavily involved. If FDJ signs, we won't see Fred much either. The pitch was atrocious. Both sides were slipping and sliding all over the place. We looked like we took our foot off the gas more than Villa in that 20 minutes of the second half. Maybe due to injury concerns? Whatever the case, slippy-g probably built them up in his half time talk and they came out more motivated. Didn't really expect much from the full substitutes. None of those baring Varane, and the occasional AWB/Malacia subs will get many minutes in the PL. If we do end up signing an attacker like Antony, Elanga won't get many minutes either. Was hoping to see more from Garner but again, you can't expect much in those conditions with the side that was subbed in.
The Donny/Fred midfield was probably ETH's test to see if those two could cope. It will have to be McFred or Fred/Eriksen unless FDJ signs. I'm sure Garner will start in the match next Sunday and give us a glimps of whether he can stake a claim or go out on loan. The full strength squad will most likely play on Saturday in Norway.
 
Both goals conceded were a shocker from a defending point of view. Really bad.

Pitch was dreadful.
 
I'm still trying to understand how this game is a negative. We pissed the first half, should have been 3 or 4 up and then made a huge number of changes on a shit pitch and let some goals in.
 
You guys realise this is pre-season right? You’d think we lost a cup final or something. The conditions were dreadful the pitch horrible. Yet so many out in force to complain first
 
Haven't seen the game or highlights, was anyone directly to blame for the both goals?
 
Woziak said:
If we extend his contract that’s insane on £375k per week

So Can’t see it tbf
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Unfortunately for him his mate Ole isn’t here.

It would be madness to extend his contract, but suppose all depends on his form and ETH i guess.
 
GaryLifo said:
I'm still trying to understand how this game is a negative. We pissed the first half, should have been 3 or 4 up and then made a huge number of changes on a shit pitch and let some goals in.
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Aston Villa had enough chances in second half to have 3 or 4 goals too. And beside the first goal, at least 2 chances were created when our first string still on the pitch.

EtH postmatch does sound like he acknowledged the underwhelming performance in the second half (control of the game part).

The biggest issue is well known personnel flaw from different players getting exposed. Something that's beyond coaching domain to fix it.

Edit:



Perfectionist like EtH shouldn't be all positive vibe after that second half performance. Why would we fans?
 
BaguetteBoy said:
You guys realise this is pre-season right? You’d think we lost a cup final or something. The conditions were dreadful the pitch horrible. Yet so many out in force to complain first
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We need to send all of these "fans" on a football 101 course. The same gang is in the training thread thinking that the training methods are the holy grail. Good thing they were not around during SAF time otherwise they would be saying we dont win champion leagues often because of the "backward" training style.
 
ti vu said:
Aston Villa had enough chances in second half to have 3 or 4 goals too. And beside the first goal, at least 2 chances were created when our first string still on the pitch.

EtH postmatch does sound like he acknowledged the underwhelming performance in the second half (control of the game part).

The biggest issue is well known personnel flaw from different players getting exposed. Something that's beyond coaching domain to fix it.
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The central midfield was a different combination. If you take a look at the lineup and the wholesale changes made, it is very clear that the manager is testing out different tactical approaches and also getting their match fitness to full standards. It would be a shock if the team was so dominant despite all the changes and different tactical approaches.
 
OpenIntrovert said:
The central midfield was a different combination. If you take a look at the lineup and the wholesale changes made, it is very clear that the manager is testing out different tactical approaches and also getting their match fitness to full standards. It would be a shock if the team was so dominant despite all the changes and different tactical approaches.
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You're talking nonsense. I clearly pointed out how Aston Villa were the better team even before the changes.

Hear EtH assessment for yourself. It's clear he's not happy with second half performance for both set of players. He expected better for whatever the goals were set.
 
Let's hope we aren't going to make a habit of giving up two-goal leads to Villa! Not seen any highlights yet but it does seem we were OK when we had our first string on the field. The sad thing is Villa showed we won't romp to wins against half-decent sides (which we faced in earlier games).

ETH is going to have to push the suits to get the reinforcements he wants otherwise we won't be much of an improvement on last season...
 
ti vu said:


You're talking nonsense. I clearly pointed out how Aston Villa were the better team even before the changes.

Hear EtH assessment for yourself. It's clear he's not happy with second half performance for both set of players. He expected better for whatever the goals were set.
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You missed out the different midfield combination and tactical approach.

Anyway ETH cannot come out and say he is happy with what he has seen. It is obvious even with the earlier victories that he is always looking for mistakes where the team can improve on, which is what pre-season is meant for. Let's pipe it down.
 
LordSpud said:
Still looks like our first XI only has 45 mins worth of legs which is worrying. They dropped off after half time way before the changes.
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Which is why we need to concentrate on our bench and second 11, we have 10 games in October which means if you start in our first game against Brighton ; D De Gea, D Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Shaw, Fred, Eriksen, Bruno, Sancho, Martial, Rashford ;

Bench(9) T Heaton, L Martinez, E Baily, T Malacia, S Mctominay, J Garner, A Elanga, C Ronaldo, Garnaucho

Hopefully by end of August this becomes starting PL 11 of D De Gea, Dalot, Varane, Martinez, L Shaw, * FDJ(a man can hope!),
Fred, Bruno, *Antony, Ronaldo, Sancho

Bench (9) *S Romero, Bailey,T Malacia, J Garner, Maguire, S Mctominay, C Ericsen, Rashford, Martial

Europa League Team; S Romero, V Lindelof, H Maguire, E Bailey, T Malacia, J Garner, C Eriksen, S Mctominay, A Elanga, Martial, Rashford
Bench (9) T Heaton, AWB, L Martinez, C Savage, Z IQbal, Garnaucho, Bruno, J Sancho, Antony

in summary Pre season has gone great but we really need to get 2 or 3 marquee players over the line in the next 2 or 3 weeks. If Ronaldo leaves we need 2 strikers without exception, and we also need an Elite CDM/DLP, plus another right back.

We have improved our patterns of play, we look a fitter more creative team, Zidane IQbal has been a revelation with his incredible tight control, England needs to fast track this kid, one more game for Iraq and he can’t play for the 3 Lions. Fred has also improved, S Mctominay, L Shaw and Maguire positions are the most under threat, however we have not seen Lisandro Martinez and Ericsen in the team yet. We just need some much needed stardust in the form of Antony snd FDJ to give the club and the manager a real lift.
 
I am just happy we did not have any major injuries. It was such a terrible pitch that our players shouldn't try too hard, this was just a meaningless preseason game. Not even a trophy was offered, it would be different if we were playing for PERTH CENTURY MUD CUP CHAMPIONSHIP or something.
 
OpenIntrovert said:
We need to send all of these "fans" on a football 101 course. The same gang is in the training thread thinking that the training methods are the holy grail. Good thing they were not around during SAF time otherwise they would be saying we dont win champion leagues often because of the "backward" training style.
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Funnily enough we were at our best when we had assistant managers who were regarded as forward thinking coaches, in line with the at-the-time modern game.

Training methods are important. Pre-season or not, opinions like this had us stuck with a tactical dinosaur for 3 years.
 
OpenIntrovert said:
You missed out the different midfield combination and tactical approach.

Anyway ETH cannot come out and say he is happy with what he has seen. It is obvious even with the earlier victories that he is always looking for mistakes where the team can improve on, which is what pre-season is meant for. Let's pipe it down.
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There is no different midfield combination and tactical approach.

You just made up shit. Do what you preach. Pipe it down.
 
mikeyt said:
You simply can't polish a turd...We have too many turds that will take time to recycle out for better players coming in.

ETH is clearly a good coach but McTom, Lindelof, De Gea et al aren't 18 year olds that can be significantly improved. These, among plenty of others, have, year after year shown they aren't capable at the level required. We can't necessarily move them all on now but suggesting they are capable of improving enough to warrant a place in our squad if we want to progress and compete at the top level again is way off. Accepting they are is why we are so mediocre ETH or no ETH.
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Genuine can’t see any of those 3 players surviving past this season, Lindelof might be the odd one out this summer in that Bailey looks better right now And we need money and 5 doesn’t go into 4. If someone offer £25M for Lindelof he’s off.
 
Villa were more aggressive second half and were well organised throughout I thought.

Feel we could have scored a fair few more in the first half, but pleased with our chance creation.

Turned off about 5 mins after all the subs were made in the second half. We were more disjointed and generally poorer, but as others have said, the quality of the match due to weather/pitch made it a slugfest that I just don’t think our kids were as up for.

Even with this poorer result, I think it’s been one of the better tours. We have two new players to bed in this week and it’s clear there’s a structure to things. Sancho in particular can be really effective if properly unlocked.

Won’t get ahead of myself, it’s going to be a tough season. But people should be more positive based on our performances so far.
 
Lindelof should be nowhere near the first eleven.

Emergency backup player at BEST.

So glad we have Martinez in the mix now. Hopefully he will be far better.
 
This is why I was quite happy we were playing this game today because I knew that against a half decent side, the same old stuff would be exposed again. This team did not finish 6th by accident. So many players that are still here are not worthy of wearing the shirt and no amount of high end training will change it. Its really that simple. A mass clearout and replacement was needed and yet it looks like yet again we're going to persist with a lot of them. If this fixture wasn't part of the tour, most on here would have acted like these players have changed in the space of 2 months even though we've played against basically nobody in 3 games. Turds cannot be polished and a pig with a bit of lipstick on is still a pig.

It also gives Ten Hag a glimpse into the level of intensity he will have to cope with for 38 games. Let us hope he pushes the board to keep bringing more names in. Most of the existing names we have are toasted.
 
Dannn411 said:
This is why I was quite happy we were playing this game today because I knew that against a half decent side, the same old stuff would be exposed again. This team did not finish 6th by accident.
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This makes you happy?
 
That shitty goal wasn't just everybody losing the concentration in the end, but also De Gea is HORRIBLE off the line and I can guarantee you - a lot of teams will try (and succeed) to expose him on it, in our new system, if he doesn't manage to fix this component (unlikely).

We are up for a bumpy ride.
 
My take on it:

Positives:

Good first half performances from Sancho and Shaw from an attacking POV.

Bruno was very good at tracking and winning the ball in good attacking positions.

Felt Martial's hold up play was good in the first half.

Negatives

Whilst Fred had his moments in the first half of controlling the midfield he was poor in the second half. Lapse of concentration gave Bailey a chance just before the goal. Also passed the ball to the opposition under no pressure a few times.

Lindelof was really poor for the first goal.

Our lack of pace down the flanks tracking back defensively was alarming. Bailey destroyed us down their right flank.

Van De Beek did absolutely nothing the whole game. Nothing.

Lots for ETH to think over. The only positive of having a competitive second half is he can see how we react under pressure.
 
IrishMcD said:
Same quotes we have been hearing for past few years from different managers. The one consistent? This group of players. They just are not good enough. I wonder how many “clean slates” are needed before the club realise they need to move the majority of them out of the club
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Ive been saying this before ten hag stepped foot inside carrington.
 
NewGlory said:
That shitty goal wasn't just everybody losing the concentration in the end, but also De Gea is HORRIBLE off the line and I can guarantee you - a lot of teams will try (and succeed) to expose him on it, in our new system, if he doesn't manage to fix this component (unlikely).

We are up for a bumpy ride.
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It's been happening for a good few seasons. Put a couple of guys on De Gea at set pieces and he's done for. He'll not even force a foul out of them.
 
Rangnick wasn't wrong when he said we need 8 to 10 new players in the squad.
 
Relax guys, it's preseason ffs.

Just imagine for today's starting 11. Martinez for Lindelof, FDJ for Fred, Eriksen for Bruno. It will looks very different.
 
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