It's not just that anyone who could compete for Edgar's players went out in first round - rinus , del bos que , van gaal
The thing is you are very predictable, particularly in terms of priorities (certainly not which players you will pick). You always prioritise the attack and big defenders, leaving the question of width and creativity in central midfield for later, which makes you vulnerable to surgical tactical picks in this sort of limited pool setup. Particularly with a manager like Capello, the problem was never going to be finding good defenders or DMs, or even forwards, the problem was creativity and width.
Here's how it happened so you can see where it all went wrong for future reference.
02. AngeloHenriquez/Stobzilla:- Fabio Capello- 1. F. Baresi 2. Gullit 3. Van Basten 4. Hierro 5. Totti 6. Samuel 7. Emerson 8. Boban 9. Tassotti 10. Candela 11. Sebastiano Rossi 12. Weah.
12. Edgar Allan Pillow:- Fabio Capello - 1. P. Maldini 2. Nedved 3. Redondo 4. Desailly 5. Savićević 6. Costacurta 7. Albertini 8. Donadoni 9. Panucci 10. Suker 11. Casillas 12. Montero.
1. P. Maldini
1. F. Baresi 2. Gullit
2. Nedved 3. Redondo
3. Van Basten 4. Hierro - First slip, you don't need Hierro when you have Baresi. Desailly would be a better defensive partner and holding midfielder.
4. Desailly 5. Savićević - EAP wanted Billy and planned to get Savicevic later, but I thought he was a Stob pick if I ever saw one and completed his midfield while having the sort of creativity and wide played you needed to be starved of
5. Totti 6. Samuel - I truly have no idea what you were thinking. You already had Marco-Gullit, Baresi and Hierro. I think EAP had an orgasm.
6. Costacurta 7. Albertini - At this point EAP has his shape and plan sorted. Time to push you into the hole you dug taking the only proper creative CM left.
7. Emerson 8. Boban - You are now in reaction mode, with EAP dictating who you pick and these being poor-man's substitutes of those he takes away.
8. Donadoni 9. Panucci - You still hadn't sorted width, looked like a back five, so take away Panucci and leave you with Tassotti and no RW to make up for it
9. Tassotti 10. Candela - Presto, Baresi, Gullit and van Basten nicely lined up
10. Suker 11. Casillas - EAP paying the price for screwing with you, Buffon gone
11. Sebastiano Rossi 12. Weah
12. Montero - Insurance in case Desailly was needed in midfield instead of Albertini
The draft side is where the fun is, no doubt
Manager Draft Final - Harms VS Edgar
- Thread starter Annahnomoss
- Start date
What I wanted to play eventually, dunno how well it would have worked though.Maybe replace pirlo with nedved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_MakéléléI love Makalele!
It was tongue in cheek this time
. Sum of my contribution this draft has been bad spelling and the use of pes stats.Good one then
That was very lucky, particularly you (MvB-Gullit), less so van Gaal (already had Rijkaard and Desailly was absolutely fine). Not sure why del Bosque. A more voter-friendly modern side was bound to knock you out sooner or later though.
He had a strong enough side to get by without the Dutch guys in the first couple of rounds bar MvB so the risk primarily was that you went through and picked Marco straight off the bat. That would have been mostly to screw him as, frankly, you needed Gullit and Rijkaard (if LvG lost) more than Marco.
It was really a matter of time before he got them but he was indeed quite lucky to just pick them up straight away in order of priority safe in the knowledge the others would still be knocking around in the next round.
My side was impossible from the start and more of a joke, it would have looked ridiculous in a final. Can't even field a competent first eleven as there are no CB/DM/CM options at all but I did have Romario, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu, Carlos for a very entertaining 2nd round if the other manager somehow fecked up massively tactically or didn't have time to continue.
Wouldn't have been very good anyhow but at least they'd play some of the most entertaining football in a draft! Rivaldo was more of a right midfielder at the time(98 ish), and Ronaldinho was just entering the scene.
Wouldn't have been very good anyhow but at least they'd play some of the most entertaining football in a draft! Rivaldo was more of a right midfielder at the time(98 ish), and Ronaldinho was just entering the scene.
What I wanted to play eventually, dunno how well it would have worked though.Maybe replace pirlo with nedved.
No chance, EAP had him. That was an inspired early pick actually, Nedved was the one that would keep him in it while waiting for Gullit, so much so that by the final he seemed to be regarded as the most important player on the pitch!
It was 1998-2000, which took you pretty close if not bang on everyone's peak. It was a shame you didn't go through as it was a fantastic sleeper cell team with everyone instantly turning from youths/has beens to their peaks
True thats why said maybe in the unlikely event EAP lost. I really didnt plan my picks too smartly, should have taken kohler/cannavaro earlier before I started on the midfield but oh well. Still would ahve lost against tiki fecking taka.
Yeah, tiki-taka was perfect kryptonite for any of the more stylish Italian sides. Shame, I liked how your team could have evolved into a great Lippi side, but it was never going to make it in this company.
When I saw your pick, I was Vanderwho
At least I now know him better. Must have been a bitch to check on his players!It was 1998-2000, which took you pretty close if not bang on everyone's peak. It was a shame you didn't go through as it was a fantastic sleeper cell team with everyone instantly turning from youths/has beens to their peaks
Yeah, it would have been good for one(more) laugh to be fair! Like you say, all the has been/will be suddenly in their near peaks.
Great, brutal analysis.
The thing is you are very predictable, particularly in terms of priorities (certainly not which players you will pick). You always prioritise the attack and big defenders, leaving the question of width and creativity in central midfield for later, which makes you vulnerable to surgical tactical picks in this sort of limited pool setup. Particularly with a manager like Capello, the problem was never going to be finding good defenders or DMs, or even forwards, the problem was creativity and width.
Here's how it happened so you can see where it all went wrong for future reference.
02. AngeloHenriquez/Stobzilla:- Fabio Capello- 1. F. Baresi 2. Gullit 3. Van Basten 4. Hierro 5. Totti 6. Samuel 7. Emerson 8. Boban 9. Tassotti 10. Candela 11. Sebastiano Rossi 12. Weah.
12. Edgar Allan Pillow:- Fabio Capello - 1. P. Maldini 2. Nedved 3. Redondo 4. Desailly 5. Savićević 6. Costacurta 7. Albertini 8. Donadoni 9. Panucci 10. Suker 11. Casillas 12. Montero.
1. P. Maldini
1. F. Baresi 2. Gullit
2. Nedved 3. Redondo
3. Van Basten 4. Hierro - First slip, you don't need Hierro when you have Baresi. Desailly would be a better defensive partner and holding midfielder.
4. Desailly 5. Savićević - EAP wanted Billy and planned to get Savicevic later, but I thought he was a Stob pick if I ever saw one and completed his midfield while having the sort of creativity and wide played you needed to be starved of
5. Totti 6. Samuel - I truly have no idea what you were thinking. You already had Marco-Gullit, Baresi and Hierro. I think EAP had an orgasm.
6. Costacurta 7. Albertini - At this point EAP has his shape and plan sorted. Time to push you into the hole you dug taking the only proper creative CM left.
7. Emerson 8. Boban - You are now in reaction mode, with EAP dictating who you pick and these being poor-man's substitutes of those he takes away.
8. Donadoni 9. Panucci - You still hadn't sorted width, looked like a back five, so take away Panucci and leave you with Tassotti and no RW to make up for it
9. Tassotti 10. Candela - Presto, Baresi, Gullit and van Basten nicely lined up
10. Suker 11. Casillas - EAP paying the price for screwing with you, Buffon gone
11. Sebastiano Rossi 12. Weah
12. Montero - Insurance in case Desailly was needed in midfield instead of Albertini
The draft side is where the fun is, no doubt
When I saw your pick, I was Vanderwho
I was a bit unmotivated for a serious draft and I was the draftmaster so I figured I would try to add a level of entertainment by managing one of the teams and not taking it very seriously myself. Would have been even better if someone had Rivaldo/Ronaldinho/Cafu/Carlos/Romario all for themselves and I came in and snatched them just before. Didn't end that funny though.
Reminded me of an episode of Game of Thrones.
It was a good effort to go down the Luxembergo route. Our plan A was a South American manager but nobody really stood out as genuinely competitive in the first round. Whereas there were 2/3 Europeans who were both competitive in the first round (subject to the draw against the early peakers) and with a realistic chance of winning a final following reinforcement.
Didn't end that funny though.
You got unlucky with that first round draw. Opponent's team was final ready from get go.
Indeed, TRV was probably the last opponent anyone wanted. Gio would have walked most if not all other games, it already looked almost final-ready itself but came across the worst possible system riddled with proven partnerships and gameplay. Even then, I still voted for him... well, only once he brought Rui Costa on
That was a cracking game, TRVs face must have been a picture when he woke up and saw a done deal turned into the oppo breathing down his neck.BTW, it's been said before, but great format @Annahnomoss, it makes the drafting a bit too simplistic with the exclusive pools but it produced excellent proven and coherent teams by design, even letting relatively underrated players shine and not justifying shiny upgrades.
There were a few better options actually from there, but none that would be able to steal so many players and be so hard to research for the opponents.
I really loved following it as well. It was a really brilliant draft and pretty much every match up was between two sides without too many superstar names.
Yeah, inspired concept and congratulations to @Edgar Allan Pillow.
Aye, completely agreed. Matthaus already had three centre backs behind him, well four actually when you include Gentile, and Tardelli as a midfield partner. Quite clearly doesn't need any one else covering for him.
Agree, even if I am not sure I'd consider him the best B2B of all time. The competition is rough and the three in this match up are damn near equal. He's certainly on of those in the discussion but hard to pinpoint him as the one and only best ever b2b.
Aye, with the players he had that's what I would have done too. But ideally I would have picked Brehme and played both him and Cabrini.
I don't think there's much between those two teams though, I actually really like the lob sided version with Boniek there. But at a push I'd go with Brehme.
Congrats, @Edgar Allan Pillow - and well done, @harms!
Brilliant draft, @Annahnomoss - turned out better than I had thought too: I was a bit afraid it would get stale beyond the first round of matches, but it certainly didn't. It was more about teams than names - and a surprising amount of unsung heroes got to shine here. Absolutely brilliant, all things said and done.
Brilliant draft, @Annahnomoss - turned out better than I had thought too: I was a bit afraid it would get stale beyond the first round of matches, but it certainly didn't. It was more about teams than names - and a surprising amount of unsung heroes got to shine here. Absolutely brilliant, all things said and done.
Not covering for him, that's not the issue. It's aboout doing the defensive job that would be required of him as one of two midfielders with a deep-sitting backline and oceans of space in between. It needs to be done, but you just don't want him to be doing dog's work, it's a waste. Get rid of one of them unnecessary defenders and get a midfielder to do it for him, sorted.
While I agree with those who have warned against over-complicating things, the model you propose isn't exactly rocket science. It would clearly be manageable, I think. The problem I see with this model is that it could lead to draws en masse - because those who would normally allow even a slight advantage (a 1-0 or a 4-3 scenario) to benefit either A or B, could now opt for "advantage A" or "advantage B" instead. And that wouldn't be good, would it? To my thinking either you believe the match is a draw, flat out, period - or you believe that there is a little something which separates the sides, in which case there is a winner, not a draw.
See the thing?
I take it you suggest doing that with a back three at Boniek's expense? Do yourself a favour and watch this: Traps' Juve
Every single big game they protray you see it settled via the Platini-Boniek combo. Even when it isn't shown, it was (e.g. Heysel peno was a peno on Boniek after a fabulous ball from Platini). You just don't drop Boniek when you have Platini, not for Brehme at right back, or Baggio-Batistuta, or anyone however big a name he is. Does it carry through to the popularity contest of voting? Probably not, but who gives a shit? It's one of the most brilliant and proven mutually beneficial partnerships in the history of the game.
Im on my phone so I cant post it right now...but I had something a little different planned. Not sure how well it would have been received though
I don't agree at all that he was restricted in the previous set up, or burdened with a big defensive job. As I said before Gentile, Scirea, Bergomi, Kohler and Tardelli were already there which is quite the array defensively. Aye it's a two man midfield, but it's a two man midfield with a five man defence which is obviously completely different, there's already lots of security there. It's also a two man midfield in which he's paired with Tardelli who was excellent defensively himself.
In a previous draft Matthaus was in a two man midfield in a 4-2-3-1 and he was also playing next to Didi. In that set up you would be quite right to say that he was overburdened defensively but I don't see that here in this set up at all.
That 4231 was part of a WC draft and that team went won the whole thing. It is only recently people have decided that Lothar must be played as an AM
I mentioned in that game against Annah, that he's basically playing '94 or '98 Matthäus, and definitely not the Ballon d'Or winning 1990 version. Not that anyone cared
Is how I was thinking...I've always wanted Beckenbauer to play his role, rather than just a Cb..so I would have partnered Schwarzenbeck back where with him and Augenthaler. Freeing Beckenbauer to push up, and having Stielike alongside Matthaus to drop back and cover also.
Whether anyone would have liked it or not is a different idea...and it all depended on when myself of Joga went out (although we both did at the same time
) as to what players would have been available to put together.What's with those ultra defensive 5 man backlines? Vogts right wingback is the same as Gentile right wingback. Have a bit of faith in your defenders . You really don't need Augenthaler in there.
. You really don't need Augenthaler in there.Personally the best way to choke Capello's Milan is from the midfield. Since vB is the only dedicated striker, rather than a 5 man defence, a 5 man midfield WM or MM would be much more effective.