Man City 2020/21 - General discussion

[BlackBinBag]

I give up, some people will never accept some things. I wrote much about this topic in the previous pages, yet it seems guys like you never read. No one proclaimed death of football after Berlusconi took over Milan in the 80s, why would him be ok, but not a sheik? And, in modern football, the only way to compete with top clubs is by huge amounts of money. The honest route is impossible, see Ajax. And even clubs who aren't owned by sheiks are still often sponsored by them. In modern football, all money is dirty and we shouldn't draw a line of what corruption is ok and what isn't.

Continually making the same point doesn't make it anymore valid. Nobody proclaimed the death of football in earlier times as no teams were state funded. This is a new phenomenon. Many teams have received investment through the years but there was always a limit on what the owners were prepared to put in. Someone worth £5 Billion isn't going to put £2 Billion into a football club for shits & giggles.

PSG have destroyed the French League & City look like doing the same in the PL. I really don't see how any of this bullshit ends if PSG & City's cheat codes aren't turned off.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

It hurts, I get it.

I don't dislike City anymore than PSG. But they are both pillars of what football shouldn't be. You would think the same if it wasn't your club that has been tainted.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

I don't believe anybody would have said you were not going to win the league when it became known the levels of investment you were to receive. Chelsea & Blackburn both went down the same route & won the league. It's incomprehensible to think a club backed by a state isn't going to win things.

It's clutching at straws to compare Mansour & Gibson's respective roles. Gibson donated money to save the club. There was no money for transfers. An academy had to be formed to bring players through. In the end Gibson invested £30K which is £500K in today's money. You are still reliant on Mansour's funding 13 years after takeover. With infrastructure, transfers & wages you have had well over £2 Billion of investment.

He’d get it all back, and more, if he decided to sell.
He’s not a just Sugar Daddy, he’s an extremely savvy businessman too.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Doping (PED) i am 100% sure this team is full of it and there is a long history of it with Guardiola.

That's at least a creative argument as I didn't really hear it since the 18/19 season.

 

[robinamicrowave]

Congrats to the United Arab Emirates for winning the league. And special thanks to FIFA to allow them to cheat and get away with it.

When they win the quadruple this season, that will be the death of football for me

Calm down, for god's sake. We've not even won one trophy yet and four definitely isn't happening.

 

[BlackBinBag]

He’d get it all back, and more, if he decided to sell.
He’s not a just Sugar Daddy, he’s an extremely savvy businessman too.

If he can find anyone that want's to give him a tickle on his investment he should have their hands off (not literally of course)

You do realize the Mansour's have put £5 Billion into an airline that hasn't made a profit in it's entire existence. Wouldn't inspire me with confidence that they know how business works at all.

They've made their money from selling oil. This is a commodity the whole world needs & would be regarded as an easy sell. They've not been selling £10 notes for £20.

 

[ray24]

I feckin hate playing Pep teams. Gives me CL final throwbacks when I felt literally sick of how dominant his Barca were.

Luckily I will miss the game so I'll only re-watch if we get a result.

Get a coach that can outplay Pep on a more regular basis.

 

[sullydnl]

Doping (PED) i am 100% sure this team is full of it and there is a long history of it with Guardiola.

Whenever people bring this accusation up in regard to City I'm reminded of how rarely we talk about the fact that one of our starting CMs served a 1 year worldwide doping ban.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Continually making the same point doesn't make it anymore valid. Nobody proclaimed the death of football in earlier times as no teams were state funded. This is a new phenomenon. Many teams have received investment through the years but there was always a limit on what the owners were prepared to put in. Someone worth £5 Billion isn't going to put £2 Billion into a football club for shits & giggles.

PSG have destroyed the French League & City look like doing the same in the PL. I really don't see how any of this bullshit ends if PSG & City's cheat codes aren't turned off.

Didn't someone already mention Man Utd spent almost as much as City for the past 10 years in transfer fee and wages?

https://www.sportekz.com/football/premier-league-clubs-wage-bills/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11846533/man-utd-premier-league-highest-wage-bill/

I have no clue which one is correct, but Man Utd is top of the list in wage bill for both.

 

[dove]

Didn't someone already mention Man Utd spent almost as much as City for the past 10 years in transfer fee and wages?

Our fans conveniently ignore that part and are constantly bashing Glazers for not spending enough money. Fact is, if we used the money well on players and coaching staff, we could have been very close to the level City are. But instead we wasted it on mediocre players/managers and are now nowhere near City.

 

[ray24]

Didn't someone already mention Man Utd spent almost as much as City for the past 10 years in transfer fee and wages?

Even if they didn't, they have more than enough to build a strong title winning team. It's just that the club's recruitment is utterly horrendous, wasting time chasing the biggest name season after season, while Man City didn't even get the players they were chasing half the time.

Man Utd have enough money to buy Van Djik, but they spent even more money on Maguire.

Our fans conveniently ignore that part and are constantly bashing Glazers for not spending enough money. Fact is, if we used the money well on players and coaching staff, we could have been very close to the level City are. But instead we wasted it on mediocre players/managers and are now nowhere near City.

The funny thing is, the fanbase is not even acknowledging that. Instead of looking at recruitment, a problem you guys had even in the days of Ferguson (no good midfielders available on the market according to him), the fanbase keep blaming the club for not spending money.


Instead of wasting an entire summer chasing Sancho, a good club will spend it on good Sancho alternatives that cost far less. Man Utd as a club is obsessed with chasing the biggest name every transfer window. And you end up wasting money instead.

 

[croadyman]

There is no doubt this run of wins is unbelievable but I am so frustrated we threw away those silly points against Everton, Sheff Utd & WBA meaning that the gap to them is probably around double what it should be and that really niggles away

 

[arnie_ni]

Whenever people bring this accusation up in regard to City I'm reminded of how rarely we talk about the fact that one of our starting CMs served a 1 year worldwide doping ban.

One of ours?

 

[Lay]

There is no doubt this run of wins is unbelievable but I am so frustrated we threw away those silly points against Everton, Sheff Utd & WBA meaning that the gap to them is probably around double what it should be and that really niggles away

Doesn't frustrate me now seeing City romp away with the league. Two seasons in a row that the EPL looks like the SPL.

 

[croadyman]

Doesn't frustrate me now seeing City romp away with the league. Two seasons in a row that the EPL looks like the SPL.

Would they have done that if we were only 8 points behind now though and not 15, sickening to think turn those two draws into wins and we could have had a shot at closing the gap to 5 points on Sunday rather than 9 which is a massive difference

 

[Tarrou]

One of ours?

He means Fred

 

[Daysleeper]

Would they have done that if we were only 8 points behind now though and not 15

yes 100%

 

[croadyman]

yes 100%

I want to believe that so we don't have to go around repeatedly kicking ourselves

 

[sullydnl]

One of ours?

Yep. Fred served a one-year doping ban after testing positive for a substance that's used as a masking agent during the 2015 Copa America. That was then extended to July 2017 after WADA appealed as they thought his backdated punishment had been overly lenient.

 

[Daysleeper]

I want to believe that so we don't have to go around repeatedly kicking ourselves

haha honestly, only scoring once against the top 6 is the bigger issue. Haaland would be amazing for you

 

[croadyman]

haha honestly, only scoring once against the top 6 is the bigger issue. Haaland would be amazing for you

We haven't got the money for him this summer and fear too much competition next year when the clause is activated

 

[McTerminator]

I can't be the only one who isn't that bothered by this? I was far more worried when Liverpool were on a similar run.

I do wonder if apathy is helping them though. In our hey day everyone wanted a piece of us. It was marked on the calendar from the first day of the season, but with City... do the opposition fans and players care about their success?

Don't get me wrong, success breeds contempt in sport and they sadly become more relevant every year, but right now is the apathy of others (especially opposition players) a factor in their success?

 

[Noot]

PSG have destroyed the French League & City look like doing the same in the PL.

We hear this every time City hit a run of good form and it never lasts. We're dominant now because Pep is a once-in-a-generation manager. Our chances of replacing him with someone who can accomplish what he has seem slim to none. Once he leaves (which won't be too far away), things will look very different. Remember that City have only won the Premier League with a game to spare once. Only that one time you could fairly accuse us of 'walking it'- a far cry from what we see in Germany, Italy and France.

And no, we're not winning the quadruple and we're not signing Haaland or Messi. It's not as bad as it looks, and I doubt we'll win the league next year.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Sheikh wants to buy a football club, he looks at what has been the best run football wise club of the last two decades, he sees its Barca he goes in and hires those behind the footballing structure of said best run club and transfers it into a club that he sees will challenge, with a vision of becoming the next big club in said league (there was rumours he wanted to buy us, but the Glazers wanted more than he thought we were worth, and thought “I can replicate that success for far less than id have to pay them”)

Fair plays to City, they are so well run as a football club, in terms of structure that they make some of us (UTD) look like we are the new kids on the block and they are the established club.

The only way they drop down, is if Pep and the football department all end up back at Barca or the Sheikhs get bored of the project and run off to buy into some other sports.

The way they spend their own money shouldnt even come into it. Real Madrid have been a state sponsored team for years, as were AC Milan, no one much to them as they were established clubs higher up in the footballing world.

Do I think they (City/PSG) are right to do things they way they do? No, I think them flouting FFP makes a mockery of every thing that FFP protocols were put into place to make things like this not happen, however those that brought in FFP are in themselves corrupt so fair play to these clubs for finding the loopholes and exploiting them.

 

[Noot]

Sheikhs get bored of the project and run off to buy into some other sports.

Absolutely baffling that people still believe there's any chance of this ever happening.

 

[croadyman]

I can't be the only one who isn't that bothered by this? I was far more worried when Liverpool were on a similar run.

I do wonder if apathy is helping them though. In our hey day everyone wanted a piece of us. It was marked on the calendar from the first day of the season, but with City... do the opposition fans and players care about their success?

Don't get me wrong, success breeds contempt

We hear this every time City hit a run of good form and it never lasts. We're dominant now because Pep is a once-in-a-generation manager. Our chances of replacing him with someone who can accomplish what he has seem slim to none. Once he leaves (which won't be too far away), things will look very different. Remember that City have only won the Premier League with a game to spare once. Only that one time you could fairly accuse us of 'walking it'- a far cry from what we see in Germany, Italy and France.

And no, we're not winning the quadruple and we're not signing Haaland or Messi. It's not as bad as it looks, and I doubt we'll win the league next year.

The massive difference between you and us is after you dropped points at home to WBA you didn't let it affect your next few results and bounced straight back whereas we let our defeat to Sheff Utd creep into other results and it allowed you to just run away from us with such ease in this past month which hurts the most.

 

[McTerminator]

Absolutely baffling that people still believe there's any chance of this ever happening.

I mean, it definitely will happen one day as nothing is permanent.

The real Question is whether City will be a self sustaining title contender by then, though I don't even think there is much doubt about that at this stage.

Summary, one day the Sheiks will leave, but unless they are cooking the books even more than we know then City should survive it pretty comfortably when they do.

 

[padr81]

It really is this simple. When a United fan says it the accusation is bitterness or some tangent to discussing Uniteds own massive failures when trying to catch up, as if there are only 2 teams in England. But yes, this is the summary

100%, for all the talk about great managers, players when titles and the team that can have the 18 strongest usually comes out the best. We have a squad that this season is particular was going to work in our favor. We've played without Laporte, Aguero and KDB for ages this season and not dropped off. In fact there is an argument we are more of a team without all 3 as we overly rely on KDB when he plays and Laporte hasn't been the same since he got crocked. Its a luxurious position for sure. I don't think its bitter to say City have almost two players for each position from anyone, there is an issue in maybe how its expressed but we have 18-20 quality players who cost a ton of money.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Absolutely baffling that people still believe there's any chance of this ever happening.

The oil money will dry up in the next two decades.
The reliance on oil is coming to a stop globally, your owners have very little income outside of the oil industry certainly not enough to keep splurging on a football club that gives them not very much in return financially.
You cannot sustain wages on the money you receive from season tickets, and tv money and still be at the level yous currently are at imo.
Im not saying this to be detrimental to your club or anything this is just my own opinion

 

[CityBlue123]

Didn't someone already mention Man Utd spent almost as much as City for the past 10 years in transfer fee and wages?

https://www.sportekz.com/football/premier-league-clubs-wage-bills/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11846533/man-utd-premier-league-highest-wage-bill/

I have no clue which one is correct, but Man Utd is top of the list in wage bill for both.

No, you don't get it. United are allowed to because they're United. The issue with City is they have far more resources than any other club. Well, except for clubs like United who actually generate more than City and actually have a larger budget.

 

[CityBlue123]

I mean, it definitely will happen one day as nothing is permanent.

The real Question is whether City will be a self sustaining title contender by then, though I don't even think there is much doubt about that at this stage.

Summary, one day the Sheiks will leave, but unless they are cooking the books even more than we know then City should survive it pretty comfortably when they do.

Brilliant point mate. Can you actually believe Silver Lake Investments bought a 10% stake of CFG valuing the company at $5billion? When the Sheikh leaves, City are really bound to collapse!

 

[Powderfinger]

Sheikh wants to buy a football club, he looks at what has been the best run football wise club of the last two decades, he sees its Barca he goes in and hires those behind the footballing structure of said best run club and transfers it into a club that he sees will challenge, with a vision of becoming the next big club in said league (there was rumours he wanted to buy us, but the Glazers wanted more than he thought we were worth, and thought “I can replicate that success for far less than id have to pay them”)

Fair plays to City, they are so well run as a football club, in terms of structure that they make some of us (UTD) look like we are the new kids on the block and they are the established club.

The only way they drop down, is if Pep and the football department all end up back at Barca or the Sheikhs get bored of the project and run off to buy into some other sports.

The way they spend their own money shouldnt even come into it. Real Madrid have been a state sponsored team for years, as were AC Milan, no one much to them as they were established clubs higher up in the footballing world.

Do I think they (City/PSG) are right to do things they way they do? No, I think them flouting FFP makes a mockery of every thing that FFP protocols were put into place to make things like this not happen, however those that brought in FFP are in themselves corrupt so fair play to these clubs for finding the loopholes and exploiting them.

I think this is a bit overstated. Begiristain et al seem like decent enough directors but I don't think they are anything special.

City have been dominant in recent years because Guardiola is a great manager, they have backed him with a lot of money, and for five years now they have focused on recruiting players that he wants with particular profiles and with the ability to play a specific kind of football. I think its pretty obvious that this vision and cohesiveness to their recruitment comes from Guardiola, not the director level. Before Guardiola arrived they were buying players like Mangala and Bony on Begiristain's watch. When Guardiola leaves, they will be very hard pressed to replicate his success. They'll spend enough money to be very competitive every year and will of course win the title sometimes like they did before, but they won't be regularly winning 95+ points.

 

[PaulScholes99]

It hurts, I get it.

To be honest it doesn't even bother me that City has so much money. There are a lot of clubs that have more money than others and in most cases i don't think it is really deserved or earned.

But my problem with City is that their owners are sportwashing the reputation of UAE with City. Of course i wouldn't like City with the friendliest owners on the world as you are our rivals. But as much as i hate Liverpool or Leeds, these feelings are different (they are on a sporting level) than these i have for City and PSG. I just detest these two clubs so much as they are just used to improve the image of states who don't even care one bit about human rights.

What do you think about this? In my opinion your posts are often good and reflected and as i don't know much (reflected) City fans therefore i am honestly interested in yours. Do you just separate football and politics strictly and if yes, do you think this is reasonable?
I think i couldn't deal with United being taken over by such a state and would switch to non league football. But of course i am in an easy position to say this as i don't actually have to make this decision fortunately. But i guess for me it just wouldn't feel right.

Sorry if you have already answered this question(s), then i didn't notice. I am not posting/reading that often here.

 

[Manchester Dan]

If he can find anyone that want's to give him a tickle on his investment he should have their hands off (not literally of course)

You do realize the Mansour's have put £5 Billion into an airline that hasn't made a profit in it's entire existence. Wouldn't inspire me with confidence that they know how business works at all.

They've made their money from selling oil. This is a commodity the whole world needs & would be regarded as an easy sell. They've not been selling £10 notes for £20.

He has actually already sold 23% of the club for £654m, so he’s on track to sell the club for well over £2bn as a minimum. The most recent transaction valued the club much higher.

- In 2015 he sold a 13% stake to China Media, a Chinese consortium, for $400M (or at the time £265m)

- In 2019 he sold a 10% stake to Silver Lake, an American private equity firm, for $500M (or at the time £389m)

 

[Wumminator]

“In case people don't know, MCFC are in 9th place. They are playing terribly and enduring one of their worst seasons since they got their oil money.
This is definitely not a team that will win the league or get close.”

@sunama I said I’d revisit this post with you after you criticised Ole for drawing against City and not going all out for a win.

 

[GhastlyHun]

I want to believe that so we don't have to go around repeatedly kicking ourselves

Remember the 98 vs 97 points title race. They have done it under pressure before.

 

[RkkMan]

I dont see how anyone stops them for the next 2/3 years. This City team are giving me 06/07 Utd vibes of being on the cusp of greatness. Terrific squad depth and terrific manager. Factor in they`re one of the few teams able to spend big during a pandemic when Utd won`t exceed a 70m net spend and you have yourself a team set to enter a period of dominance. Its gonna be a few agonizing years for a Utd fan seeing this City team with Pep and The Sheikhs still at the helm.
Wouldn`t be surprised if they unfortunately pulled off our 99 Treble Winning season

 

[Borys]

Get a coach that can outplay Pep on a more regular basis.

You think that's enough, just get a better coach than Pep? Easy peasy then.
TBH I don't even think we need a new manager, Ole is doing a good job in general, but coaching is IMO non existent. Hopefully this can be fixed by getting the right coaching staff. I don't know if Carrick and Fletcher are the answer.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Yesterday it never looked they will drop points. I hate that they are so good. Last year Liverpool were winning but it was mostly brute force approach from Liverpool. This City team is just so well organised. Won't predict next year champions but they will be tough to dislodge and with Messi waiting to join next year, it could get ugly for the rest of us.

 

[Flyer1]

We hear this every time City hit a run of good form and it never lasts. We're dominant now because Pep is a once-in-a-generation manager. Our chances of replacing him with someone who can accomplish what he has seem slim to none. Once he leaves (which won't be too far away), things will look very different. Remember that City have only won the Premier League with a game to spare once. Only that one time you could fairly accuse us of 'walking it'- a far cry from what we see in Germany, Italy and France.

And no, we're not winning the quadruple and we're not signing Haaland or Messi. It's not as bad as it looks, and I doubt we'll win the league next year.

Wrong, we are balls deep for haaland and Messi only has to say the word and he's in Manchester. Pep will be here for another 2 years and then we'll never the best there is. Why appease people? We had 20 years of utd dominating, no mention of ruining the league then? We have walked the league previously and we are walking it again. It's not our problem if clubs buy shit players and appoint shit managers every 5 minutes.
Apart from that, spot on.