Major Squad Overhaul?

Scoreboard Red

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Piece from The Mail basically summarising the consensus of most people's thoughts about the Summer activity at United, the Ins and Outs to expect.

I certainly agree with Kuszczak leaving as he was terrible on Saturday; I've not been on the Caf for a few days but I only imagine he played Saturday to add to his game-time to obtain a medal. A shame as he started well enough.

Not sure I agree with both Owen's leaving, I think it would be prudent to keep Michael Owen at least with his record and he now appears fit so worth keeping. Evans is a funny one, he appears to have felt Fergie's wrath but has come back in favour recently with some decent appearances.

Now the title is won Fergie will shake up his Man United squad
By Chris Wheeler

Last updated at 1:15 AM on 16th May 2011

Manchester United may be on the brink of a domestic and European double but they will carry out the biggest overhaul of their squad in 16 years this summer.


Chief executive David Gill confirmed on Sunday that veteran Paul Scholes is likely to follow Gary Neville into retirement and up to eight more could leave Old Trafford in the most significant shake-up since Sir Alex Ferguson famously turned to his young generation after offloading Mark Hughes, Paul Ince and Andrei Kanchelskis in 1995.


Tomasz Kuszczak - horribly unconvincing at Blackburn on Saturday - will follow Edwin van der Sar out of the club while Michael Owen is unlikely to be offered a new deal

Injury-plagued Owen Hargreaves is out of contract and, at best, can expect a pay-as-you-play agreement, while Ferguson has a big decision to make over Dimitar Berbatov, who has become an increasingly peripheral figure despite being the Premier League's leading goalscorer.


Wes Brown, Darron Gibson and even Jonny Evans could also be sold if the right offers come in.


Ferguson is set to move for Inter Milan's Wesley Sneijder and Ashley Young of Aston Villa although his interest in Everton youngster Jack Rodwell is believed to have cooled.


United are also expected to sign Atletico Madrid goalkeeper David De Gea, with Gill confirming: 'We know the keeper we want. We are in a good situation with that.'

On Scholes, he added: 'It wouldn't surprise us if Paul Scholes retired. He will have a conversation with Sir Alex at the end of the season.'


Despite the doubts about the squad, Ferguson believes victory over Barcelona in the Champions League final at Wembley a week on Saturday would 'end all arguments' about this being the weakest of his 12 title-winning teams.


United have faced criticism all season that they lack the star quality of previous generations but victory at home to Blackpool on Sunday would put Ferguson's side on 80 points - one better than the Treble winners of 1999.


'Beating Barcelona would end all arguments about this team and that is their challenge at Wembley,' said the Old Trafford manager. 'It's not fair to say it is a bad United team or a bad league.


'It's difficult to say where this one stands because we've had some great teams. The 1994 team and the one in 1999 stand out.'
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Alex Ferguson prepares clear out at Manchester United | Mail Online
 
I expect Kusczcak to leave as he has said so.
Owen Hargreaves has to be gone.
Brown is doubtful and Owen will stay.

No way Evans and Gibson are going. If a good offer for Berbatov comes in I think it'll be hard to say no but he won't be put out in the shop window.
 
IMO, Brown, PIG and Obertan are leaving in the summer

Macheda is possible, if he demands a move of some kind.

Hargreaves and Owen will be offered similar deals, and I think both will stay

Berba isn't going anywhere
 
Snow said:
I expect Kusczcak to leave as he has said so.
Owen Hargreaves has to be gone.
Brown is doubtful and Owen will stay.

No way Evans and Gibson are going. If a good offer for Berbatov comes in I think it'll be hard to say no but he won't be put out in the shop window.
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Berbatov's an interesting one; I've been a major critic but I think with the right service, we still might see him effectively succeed. It's interesting most of his goals come through the middle rather than crosses so were we to bring in someone like Sneijder perhaps, playing the ball to his feet around the box is where Berb likes it so maybe that might be effective.

But then of course so does Hernandez, and he's shown the sort of opportunistic finishing that Andy Cole or Solskjaer enjoyed, whether it be ball-to-feet or crossed in, it doesn't matter.

Would love to hear the back-story between Brown and Fergie, massive shame as Brown is a top defender and a local kid so would be sad to see him go.

I'm still not enamoured with Ashley Young, I don't see what he could bring that Nani hasn't got other than a better work-rate, but I appreciate his qualities none the less.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Berbatov's an interesting one; I've been a major critic but I think with the right service, we still might see him effectively succeed. It's interesting most of his goals come through the middle rather than crosses so were we to bring in someone like Sneijder perhaps, playing the ball to his feet around the box is where Berb likes it so maybe that might be effective.

But then of course so does Hernandez, and he's shown the sort of opportunistic finishing that Andy Cole or Solskjaer enjoyed, whether it be ball-to-feet or crossed in, it doesn't matter.

Would love to hear the back-story between Brown and Fergie, massive shame as Brown is a top defender and a local kid so would be sad to see him go.

I'm still not enamoured with Ashley Young, I don't see what he could bring that Nani hasn't got other than a better work-rate, but I appreciate his qualities none the less.
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My understanding of the Brown situation is that the lads were getting a bit rowdy on a team night out during the US tour and when SAF told them to keep it down Brown told him to "calm down you old c*nt" (or similar). That's where the fight started.
 
Wittmann45 said:
IMO, Brown, PIG and Obertan are leaving in the summer

Macheda is possible, if he demands a move of some kind.

Hargreaves and Owen will be offered similar deals, and I think both will stay

Berba isn't going anywhere
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Michael Owen would snap the fingers off Gill if offered a new contract, he has publicly stated his desire to stay at United in the press and on Twitter (directly from him), and I'm sure Owen Hargreaves would feel obliged to offer United a repayment in faith by agreeing to a new contract whatever the terms.

I think Macheda's gone (disappointing but shedding no tears over that one), but Welbeck will return so that does create a conundrum of strikers with Rooney, Berbatov, Owen and Hernandez so it would whittle down to Owen or Berbatov for me. Were Berbatov to leave, I think it would leave us light in attacking options, however bringing in Young and with the squad capable of playing 4-5-1 with Valencia, Nani etc also there, this wouldn't be too much of a hindrance...
 
Basically bullshit I think, not that it's bullshit, but he's saying the bloody obvious, and there's not much quote in there.

We all know PIG gonna leave, we all know Scholes "MIGHT" retire and it won't surprise us, we all know about our interest in De Gea, off course Gill and SAF knows the keeper they want, Owen H and M Owen is pretty obvious for all to see.

Non events.
 
SharkyMcShark said:
My understanding of the Brown situation is that the lads were getting a bit rowdy on a team night out during the US tour and when SAF told them to keep it down Brown told him to "calm down you old c*nt" (or similar). That's where the fight started.
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If that's true then you'd have to have little sympathy for him in that respect...
 
Kuszczak will be gone, that's almost a certainty.

Brown will be more or less gone as well, as I feel he still has a lot to offer to football, just not at the club at the moment. A move somewhere like Phil or Butt might do him good.

No chance Evans or Gibson leaving, I'd say.

Owen will stay if he's offered a deal. If he does, probably Macheda and Welbeck will be on loan again. Macheda might even be sold, but I hope not. Diouf will be sold for a bag of chewy bears.

Hargreaves is a headache, because it will be proper kick in the nuts if he'll return and play regularly for somebody else. But can we take the chance with him?

Berba and Nani will stay, or at least I pray it's the case. They are pivotal members of the squad, and on top form, among the best players in the league.
 
Sky1981 said:
Basically bullshit I think, not that it's bullshit, but he's saying the bloody obvious, and there's not much quote in there.

We all know PIG gonna leave, we all know Scholes "MIGHT" retire and it won't surprise us, we all know about our interest in De Gea, off course Gill and SAF knows the keeper they want, Owen H and M Owen is pretty obvious for all to see.

Non events.
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I dunno about you mate, but the next keeper for United plus the subsequent retirement of one it's legendary midfielders are both worthy events in my calendar, yes I agree they are hardly out the blue but they are talking points which is the aim of my thread, to discuss these events collectively.
 
The numbers in that article don't add up to an overhaul.

I don't think both Berbatov and Owen will be here next season unless Welbeck is being shipped out on loan again. I think Scholes will retire, we know VDS and PIG are going, I also think Brown and Obertan will go.

Gibson will get a new contract and I guess Hargreaves is going to, although I expect pay as you play to cost us virtually nothing. Evans is going nowhere and Macheda will go on loan.

I doubt the players coming in will be the ones listed either.
 
When was the last time we had a "Major squad overhaul"?

Possibly never under Fergie. There's always been gradual process of repacing key players.

We will most likely have the same squad next seasons minus Scholes, Van Der Sar and one other and possibly two or three players, only one being a signing of note.
 
english lads could be facing a culling (through retirement, sold, or released):

gaz (done).
Scholes (retire possible)
owen (released possible)
brown (sold possible)
Hargreaves (released possible).

I don't think fergie will let that many english lads go.
 
The Hairdryer said:
When was the last time we had a "Major squad overhaul"?

Possibly never under Fergie. There's always been gradual process of repacing key players.

We will most likely have the same squad next seasons minus Scholes, Van Der Sar and one other and possibly two or three players, only one being a signing of note.
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Losing three REGULAR first teamers, three very effective ones at that, in Hughes, Kanchelskis and Ince in 1995 was an overhaul, definitely.
It was half our midfield and one very good striker who was only thirty at the time.

Obviously we had very good back-up but I'd be lying if I didn't tell you I was a bit bemused by the prospect of losing all three at once, and after watching the first game of the 1995/96 season when we were bummed 3-1 at Villa, my concerns seemed to have foundation, as were a lot of people's at the time.

I'd seen Beckham, Scholes et al play for the Youth Team loads of times before but I didn't they were up for it, or so it seemed.
 
Funny thing is we'll probably see most of those names up for a 'culling' against Blackpool, I expect Owen and Berbatov upfront, Gibson in midfield, maybe Kuszczak in net (maybe Lindegaard?), Evans in defence.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Losing three REGULAR first teamers, three very effective ones at that, in Hughes, Kanchelskis and Ince in 1995 was an overhaul, definitely.
It was half our midfield and one very good striker who was only thirty at the time.

Obviously we had very good back-up but I'd be lying if I didn't tell you I was a bit bemused by the prospect of losing all three at once, and after watching the first game of the 1995/96 season when we were bummed 3-1 at Villa, my concerns seemed to have foundation, as were a lot of people's at the time.

I'd seen Beckham, Scholes et al play for the Youth Team loads of times before but I didn't they were up for it, or so it seemed.
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It was hardly a "Major squad overhaul" though.
 
Let me be the first to say that there's no fecking chance that Gibson and Evans will be sold, both of them are valuable squad players and Fergie has praised both of them a lot especially Evans. If Berbatov is sold, it'll be because of his choice and not because Fergie wanted to sell him
 
The Hairdryer said:
It was hardly a "Major squad overhaul" though.
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No Mr Hairdryer, it was - can you please advise any other time that United or indeed another major football club have released three first teamers, all three highly valued performers and internationals, two of which were in their mid-twenties and the other only thirty years old, without them retiring or the club being relegated?
 
Scoreboard Red said:
No Mr Hairdryer, it was - can you please advise any other time that United or indeed another major football club have released three first teamers, all three highly valued performers and internationals, two of which were in their mid-twenties and the other only thirty years old, without them retiring or the club being relegated?
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AC Milan recently, Arsenal circa 2005 just two off the top off my head. Surely many others..
 
Let's not also forget that Kancheskis was released due to his criminal associations and gambling problems and Ince due to his big time charlie antics. I doubt there's that problem in the current squad.
 
The Hairdryer said:
Let's not also forget that Kancheskis was released due to his criminal associations and gambling problems and Ince due to his big time charlie antics. I doubt there's that problem in the current squad.
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Allegedly, yes.
Allegedly, yes.

But none-the-less, they both left as did Hughesie who was a massive player for us, they all were. Ince was the best English midfielder around and Kanchelskis had a brilliant season with the hat-trick versus City as it's crowning glory.

But who did Arsenal release in 2005? Vieira is the only one I can think of who was the only major Arsenal player to have left, I know Cole and Pires left in 2006 but not all at once.

As for Milan, I don't know who left on the same scale either. Ronaldinho left, Maldini has retired, Inzaghi is retired (I think), Seedorf, Gattuso and Ambrosini are all still going so I'm not sure who you mean for Milan either...
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Allegedly, yes.
Allegedly, yes.

But none-the-less, they both left as did Hughesie who was a massive player for us, they all were. Ince was the best English midfielder around and Kanchelskis had a brilliant season with the hat-trick versus City as it's crowning glory.

But who did Arsenal release in 2005? Vieira is the only one I can think of who was the only major Arsenal player to have left, I know Cole and Pires left in 2006 but not all at once.

As for Milan, I don't know who left on the same scale either. Ronaldinho left, Maldini has retired, Inzaghi is retired (I think), Seedorf, Gattuso and Ambrosini are all still going so I'm not sure who you mean for Milan either...
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It doesn't matter as Ferguson has a proven history of making small changes to his squad over a period of time, the only exception arguably being 1996 when there was a need to get rid of two keys players in their 20's for off field reasons.

What I would consider a major squad overhaul is what Chelsea did in 2003/2004 or what Real Madrid or City have done recently, where they bring in a large number of new signings to order to compete/stay competitive.

There's no need for that at United. We could possibly win the league by 8 points and have comfortably made a Champions League final.

There's not too much wrong with the squad. Possibly one midfielder and a goalkeeper is all we need. Hardly overhauling is it?
 
The Hairdryer said:
It doesn't matter as Ferguson has a proven history of making small changes to his squad over a period of time, the only exception arguably being 1996 when there was a need to get rid of two keys players in their 20's for off field reasons.

What I would consider a major squad overhaul is what Chelsea did in 2003/2004 or what Real Madrid or City have done recently, where they bring in a large number of new signings to order to compete/stay competitive.

There's no need for that at United. We could possibly win the league by 8 points and have comfortably made a Champions League final.

There's not too much wrong with the squad. Possibly one midfielder and a goalkeeper is all we need. Hardly overhauling is it?
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Well I mostly agree with what you said but to me, losing Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis was a major overhaul as they were difficult players to replace.

Ultimately Beckham proved wonderfully effective as did Scholes and Cole took a while to find his feet but regardless the three players they replaced was a major overhaul, that's all I'm trying to say.

We have released several players in the summer before, but never three players of that magnitude in the one go.

Even if we released ALL the players in the article mentioned, it wouldn't be as dramatic or impacting as the three players we let go in 1995.
 
Mail is talking sense (actually common sense) for once. If what SAF is saying is true then 3 players will be arriving + 3 loanees (Diouf, Cleverley and Welbeck) will return to OT. Considering the 25 player rule then one would never be able to register such amount of players without a major squad overhaul. The only way to do that would be that the majority of the signings made will be under 21.
 
I'm in two minds really. I think on the one hand I think that we've achieved what we have with a side that perhaps, if we broke it down individually, isn't overall as strong as we have previously had in the past in all areas. Yet still won the league and fingers crossed for Wembley. In that sense, I can not see the need for changes. A player or two perhaps with with the goalkeeping situation, an addition there.

On the other hand I think whether or not Sir Alex's standards would have been satisfied this season. Can't ask for much more in Europe but would he have been angered by the away form. I think he would have been. I think then whether or not it is feasible someone like Fergie, with the high standards he expects, would be happy not to make changes after a season where our away form has been terrible and we've won the league with quite a low points total. I don't think he would.

I can certainly foresee bigger changes this year compared to any of the last few, certainly. But I'm not convinced they will happen. But they might.
 
I think Scholes will extend his deal for a further one year, and Brown doesn't really need replacement as it's been signed already in Smalling.

Goalkeepers: Lindegaard, a new keeper
Full backs: Evra, Fabio, Rafael, O'Shea
Centre-halves: Evans, Ferdinand, Vidic, Smalling
Wingers: Valencia, Park, Nani, Giggs
Midfielders: Scholes, Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher, Gibson, Cleverley
Forwards: Rooney, Berbatov, Hernandez, Welbeck, Owen

25 players, perfect. Or do some of them need no registering?

Then perhaps a new winger or a new midfielder and one of them gets moved on loan, or Owen will simply leave.
 
Sarni said:
I think Scholes will extend his deal for a further one year, and Brown doesn't really need replacement as it's been signed already in Smalling.

Goalkeepers: Lindegaard, a new keeper
Full backs: Evra, Fabio, Rafael, O'Shea
Centre-halves: Evans, Ferdinand, Vidic, Smalling
Wingers: Valencia, Park, Nani, Giggs
Midfielders: Scholes, Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher, Gibson, Cleverley
Forwards: Rooney, Berbatov, Hernandez, Welbeck, Owen

25 players, perfect. Or do some of them need no registering?
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Welbeck, Smalling, Rafael, Fabio and i think even Cleverly may get away with it - they do not need to be registered (under 21)
 
Red Pavan said:
Welbeck, Smalling, Rafael, Fabio and i think even Cleverly may get away with it - they do not need to be registered (under 21)
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Great, then we will have some open spaces. Cleverley will have to be registered though as he was born in 1989.
 
Here is the squad as it stands for next season - with van der Sar removed due to impending retirement. Scholes left in as nothing has been officially announced.

Homegrown status and Under 21 issues noted.


https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ato0erZ6b0ENdC1PU3Zsdkt5SXYxa1hFVjh3SUM2enc&hl=en#gid=0

I reckon the following:

Van Der Sar (retiring, certain)
Kuszczak sold

De Laet - sold
Brown - sold
Hargreaves - let go
Scholes retired.....
Owen let go
Diouf sold.
Obertan loaned out.
Macheda sold/loaned out.

I also think a player like Nani or Berbatov could be on the way, depending on who we bring in.
 
Mitch Conor said:
Here is the squad as it stands for next season - with van der Sar removed due to impending retirement. Scholes left in as nothing has been officially announced.

Homegrown status and Under 21 issues noted.


https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ato0erZ6b0ENdC1PU3Zsdkt5SXYxa1hFVjh3SUM2enc&hl=en#gid=0

I reckon the following:

Van Der Sar (retiring, certain)
Kuszczak sold

De Laet - sold
Brown - sold
Hargreaves - let go
Scholes sold
Owen let go
Diouf sold.
Obertan loaned out.
Macheda sold/loaned out.

I also think a player like Nani or Berbatov could be on the way, depending on who we bring in.
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How much money do you think we'll get for a retiring Paul Scholes? :D
 
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