Maguire's Redemption

[InfiniteBoredom]

The thing with him is when he makes his mistakes, it’s usually utterly unrecoverable. Wrestling Shaw, getting turned in his own box, heading the ball into his own net, letting the ball fizzle out into the attacker like today. Another defender can make a few mistakes in a game and not get punished for it, not him.

 

[Fortitude]

Has been greatly exaggerated.

No, not really; he does his job initially and there isn't even a talking point.

The problem with Maguire is he has that in him at any given moment, and it can't be legislated for because it is so random and unnecessary. Guy makes molehills into mountains and it kills his momentum and supposed redemption arcs.

He's undone steady progress today, and like snakes and ladders, he's slid right back to the bottom of the board.

There's nothing to exaggerate. It's par for the course with Maguire.

 

[Dec9003]

Poor for the 1st goal, but I think he played better than Martinez over the match. I think against Liverpool I'd be tempted to go with him and De Ligt at the back if one of Maguire and Martinez is to be dropped.

 

[zenith]

Good enough reason from here on in to integrate deLigt as our first choice defender alongside Martinez

 

[Fortitude]

Good enough reason from here on in to integrate deLigt as our first choice defender alongside Martinez

He was better than Martinez today. Although Maguire is on much shorter leash.

 

[Pronewbie]

Already called it last week. Did well against Fulham granted, but the game also suited him. He is part of the reason why we regularly lose to Brighton. Weak in the 1v1s and isolated in the build-up. If De Ligt was ready to start but didn't, then the manager's absolutely to blame.

 

[Pronewbie]

He was better than Martinez today. Although Maguire is on much shorter leash.

Surely not, especially when taking into account his involvement (or lack thereof) in the build-up phase. Weak link against clubs like Brighton, which is most of the PL these days.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

There we go - just as I predicted. By continuing to start him, we were essentially waiting for a bad performance from him. And that's exactly what happened. We need to be less concerned about immediately rewarding a good performance and more concerned with picking the best 11.

 

[Fortitude]

Surely not, especially when taking into account his involvement (or lack thereof) in the build-up phase. Weak link against clubs like Brighton, which is most of the PL these days.

Martinez got played through and around more times than was healthy today plus one time left stranded in no-man’s land. Let’s be honest, it’s not really picked up on because Martinez has way more credit in the bank than Maguire and such a bad game can be written off as an anomaly than ‘the usual’.

 

[Pronewbie]

Martinez got played through and around more times than was healthy today plus one time left stranded in no-man’s land. Let’s be honest, it’s not really picked up on because Martinez has way more credit in the bank than Maguire and such a bad game can be written off as an anomaly than ‘the usual’.

I thought they did around the same defensively considering Brighton were playing down their right 3 times more often than their left (or something like that). It's not just Martinez they were targeting. It's our entire left hand side. So the difference maker (goal aside) was in possession.

Or maybe I wasn't focused enough on the match.

 

[Sky1981]

How's him playing over De Ligt?

 

[Fortitude]

I thought they did around the same defensively considering Brighton were playing down their right 3 times more often than their left (or something like that). It's not just Martinez they were targeting. It's our entire left hand side. So the difference maker (goal aside) was in possession.

Or maybe I wasn't focused enough on the match.

Maguire's mistake was more costly and came in a cluster, so obviously looks worse and leaves a stronger negative impression, but Martinez was making errors or getting done - and then targeted - more often, but it will be glossed over because the spotlight is, understandably, on Maguire as his error cost a goal.

In possession contributions are a separate discussion, for me.

 

[Ekeke]

Played well after the mistake not dealing with crosses for the first goal.

 

[didz]

How's him playing over De Ligt?

Funnily enough I don't think the second goal happens if Maguire is on the pitch. He kinda played the wrong half in hindsight, because he was very much at fault for the first.

 

[Dominos]

Played well after the mistake not dealing with crosses for the first goal.

Do you think letting pensioner James Milner get a shot away here is good defending?


1:08

This is the sort of situation United fans accept that the elite teams just don't. Centre backs with the slightest bit of pace, agility and athleticism are able to stop a 65 year old James Milner there. Instead we let him almost score and Dalot has to clear one off the line.

And the worst thing is, it's not even Maguire's fault really. He simply can't run fast enough to deal with the sort of situations that every centre back should be dealing with every game. But we just ignore it and pretend it isn't a problem.

 

[Ekeke]

Do you think letting pensioner James Milner get a shot away here is good defending?


1:08

This is the sort of situation United fans accept that the elite teams just don't. Centre backs with the slightest bit of pace, agility and athleticism are able to stop a 65 year old James Milner there. Instead we let him almost score and Dalot has to clear one off the line.

And the worst thing is, it's not even Maguire's fault really. He simply can't run fast enough to deal with the sort of situations that every centre back should be dealing with every game. But we just ignore it and pretend it isn't a problem.

No. But most of the defending he did after the goal was good. This was an example of where he didnt get the job done and was lucky

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

How's him playing over De Ligt?

De Ligt hasn’t had any meaningful pre season. Tbf, same with Mazraoui, but we had to throw the latter into the deep’s end due to our fullback situation. And Maguire played well against Fulham.

After the int.break we should see a change in the pecking order, especially with Yoro coming back as well. They will all get minutes anyway as midweek games start kicking in.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Yeah, I hope you get my point now after today. Mistakes like today cost teams spots in the league. No matter how 'good' he is, its not good enough for United if they are hunting those top places. There is no narrative at all, just a simple analysis of how poor he is and with how with him in your team you let in unbelievable amount of goals last season with a negative goal difference.

He will rightly be dropped when De Ligt is match fit.

Having only watched the highlights, and the goal he was involved with numerous times, I actually can't see the goal is his fault. He shuts down the angle for his man so he can't be played. The cross then comes for the other free man, which you can argue Martinez should cover, or if Maguire was to cover him, then he'd just leave the other guy free to pass. In short he can't cover two players, and ultimately it's Dalot/Kobbie who doesnt track back leaving Maguire and Martinez with 3 players.

The Milner chance was arguably more his fault.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Having only watched the highlights, and the goal he was involved with numerous times, I actually can't see the goal is his fault. He shuts down the angle for his man so he can't be played. The cross then comes for the other free man, which you can argue Martinez should cover, or if Maguire was to cover him, then he'd just leave the other guy free to pass. In short he can't cover two players, and ultimately it's Dalot/Kobbie who doesnt track back leaving Maguire and Martinez with 3 players.

The Milner chance was arguably more his fault.

If he hadn’t made that movement away from goal he’d have likely blocked the cross. But equally if the winger had then cut the ball back (the obvious, sensible option IMHO) then Maguire would have been blamed for marking thin air whilst the onrushing player had a tap in.

You basically can’t win if you’re Maguire. Hindsight is a cruel mistress.

 

[ROFLUTION]

If he hadn’t made that movement away from goal he’d have likely blocked the cross. But equally if the winger had then cut the ball back (the obvious, sensible option IMHO) then Maguire would have been blamed for marking thin air whilst the onrushing player had a tap in.

You basically can’t win if you’re Maguire. Hindsight is a cruel mistress.

Yes, scapegoating at its finest.

 

[RopersReturn]

Poor old Maguire, I actually thought he played well last week against Fulham. Let’s hope he’s able to find a new club next season.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Do you think letting pensioner James Milner get a shot away here is good defending?


1:08

This is the sort of situation United fans accept that the elite teams just don't. Centre backs with the slightest bit of pace, agility and athleticism are able to stop a 65 year old James Milner there. Instead we let him almost score and Dalot has to clear one off the line.

And the worst thing is, it's not even Maguire's fault really. He simply can't run fast enough to deal with the sort of situations that every centre back should be dealing with every game. But we just ignore it and pretend it isn't a problem.

100% this

 

[Maluco]

Poor ol’ Harry. If only he’d gotten the run of the green of a Nesta/Cannavaro. When he makes mistakes, it’s pure scapegoating to suggest he actually made them. He just can’t win!

 

[Bobski]

100% this

Isn't that the attack were Martinez over-committed, 10 yards into the Brighton half, got ragdolled by Pedro, effectively leaving Maguire with 2 runners coming into the middle channel. It doesn't change the fact that Maguire is slow but he is tracking Welbeck then Milner makes a well timed run.

 

[Leftback99]

Isn't that the attack were Martinez over-committed, 10 yards into the Brighton half, got ragdolled by Pedro, effectively leaving Maguire with 2 runners coming into the middle channel. It doesn't change the fact that Maguire is slow but he is tracking Welbeck then Milner makes a well timed run.

Yep. Completely different reaction if roles were reversed.

 

[Tom Cato]

There we go - just as I predicted. By continuing to start him, we were essentially waiting for a bad performance from him. And that's exactly what happened. We need to be less concerned about immediately rewarding a good performance and more concerned with picking the best 11.

Its more rewarding a good season than a good performance

 

[Gio]

Having only watched the highlights, and the goal he was involved with numerous times, I actually can't see the goal is his fault. He shuts down the angle for his man so he can't be played. The cross then comes for the other free man, which you can argue Martinez should cover, or if Maguire was to cover him, then he'd just leave the other guy free to pass. In short he can't cover two players, and ultimately it's Dalot/Kobbie who doesnt track back leaving Maguire and Martinez with 3 players.

The Milner chance was arguably more his fault.

Agreed.

 

[Dominos]

Isn't that the attack were Martinez over-committed, 10 yards into the Brighton half, got ragdolled by Pedro, effectively leaving Maguire with 2 runners coming into the middle channel. It doesn't change the fact that Maguire is slow but he is tracking Welbeck then Milner makes a well timed run.

Yep. Completely different reaction if roles were reversed.

It's perfectly possible for 2 things to be true at once.

1. Martinez shouldn't be charging out of position, and should foul him if he gets beaten.
2. A Manchester United centre back should be capable of stopping James Milner from getting a shot away there. The reason he doesn't is because he is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly slow. A centre back who isn't painfully slow would stop the shot there despite Welbeck's presence.

 

[Leftback99]

It's perfectly possible for 2 things to be true at once.

1. Martinez shouldn't be charging out of position, and should foul him if he gets beaten.
2. A Manchester United centre back should be capable of stopping James Milner from getting a shot away there. The reason he doesn't is because he is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly slow. A centre back who isn't painfully slow would stop the shot there despite Welbeck's presence.

Why is Maguire expected to track two men running in different directions including Milner running at full pelt with our opposing midfielders nowhere to be seen?

 

[Dominos]

Why is Maguire expected to track two men running in different directions including Milner running at full pelt with our opposing midfielders nowhere to be seen?

Because, as defenders, sometimes you find yourself in sub-optimal situations and you're tasked with dealing with them.

Maguire did everything right, he waited for Dalot to get back in position to cover Welbeck and then Maguire tracked Milner's run. He did exactly what he's supposed to do.

Except, he wasn't fast enough to keep up with a 65 year old James Milner. The likes of Gabriel, Saliba, Konate, VVD are not allowing Milner to shoot the ball past our goalkeeper in that situation. None of these centre backs will be watching James Milner score past our keeper and saying "ah, there's nothing I could do because Welbeck is also on the field". They'd have just tackled him or blocked the shot because they don't run at the same speed as a tortoise.

 

[Leftback99]

Because, as defenders, sometimes you find yourself in sub-optimal situations and you're tasked with dealing with them.

Maguire did everything right, he waited for Dalot to get back in position to cover Welbeck and then Maguire tracked Milner's run. He did exactly what he's supposed to do.

Except, he wasn't fast enough to keep up with a 65 year old James Milner. The likes of Gabriel, Saliba, Konate, VVD are not allowing Milner to shoot the ball past our goalkeeper in that situation. None of these centre backs will be watching James Milner score past our keeper and saying "ah, there's nothing I could do because Welbeck is also on the field". They'd have just tackled him or blocked the shot because they don't run at the same speed as a tortoise.

I'd advise to take a closer look at other CBs and apply the same standards, particularly our own alternatives. You'll be surprised how often they aren't perfect. And that's ignoring that everyone else has failed at their job in that move.

 

[Dominos]

I'd advise to take a closer look at other CBs and apply the same standards, particularly our own alternatives. You'll be surprised how often they aren't perfect. And that's ignoring that everyone else has failed at their job in that move.

Again, this isn't about whether other centre backs make mistakes. They all do.

Maguire hasn't even made a mistake here. That's the point. He's just not physically capable of dealing with a situation that other centre backs are capable of dealing with. We need defenders who have the speed and agility to stop James Milner from scoring against us there, it should be a basic prerequisite to be a starting centre back for this club.

 

[rimaldo]

i played some of maguire’s redemption, but i couldn’t get passed level three when he kept
just booting the ball out of play.

 

[Denis79]

It's perfectly possible for 2 things to be true at once.

1. Martinez shouldn't be charging out of position, and should foul him if he gets beaten.
2. A Manchester United centre back should be capable of stopping James Milner from getting a shot away there. The reason he doesn't is because he is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly slow. A centre back who isn't painfully slow would stop the shot there despite Welbeck's presence.

We are all talking about how slow Maguire is, Is De Ligt much faster though?

 

[Dominos]

We are all talking about how slow Maguire is, Is De Ligt much faster though?

I'll reserve judgement till I've seen him regularly. If he's as slow as Maguire it will be a problem.

One thing we know is Yoro is quick, and we need another with pace next summer when Maguire/Evans leave.

 

[dubplate warrior]

There we go - just as I predicted. By continuing to start him, we were essentially waiting for a bad performance from him. And that's exactly what happened. We need to be less concerned about immediately rewarding a good performance and more concerned with picking the best 11.

Absolutely, it's only a matter of time.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Maguire played better than Martinez for 2 games and get critised and singled out. Both game he saved us when opponent counter attack us with numerical advantage on players.

Brighton's second goal, shouldn't Martinez at least must be at his position? With Dalot?

Brighton's first goal, yes he did a mistake but Amad didn't track back to mark Mitoma too.

 

[Gandalf]

Maguire played better than Martinez for 2 games and get critised and singled out. Both game he saved us when opponent counter attack us with numerical advantage on players.

Brighton's second goal, shouldn't Martinez at least must be at his position? With Dalot?

Brighton's first goal, yes he did a mistake but Amad didn't track back to mark Mitoma too.

Yes but Martinez has hard man vibes and is nicknamed Butcher so the fact that he is an out of his depth midget is not to be discussed.

 

[Stadjer]

Yes but Martinez has hard man vibes and is nicknamed Butcher so the fact that he is an out of his depth midget is not to be discussed.

Martinez isnt in the best of form yet but it is ridiculous to call Martinez an out of depth midget.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Yes but Martinez has hard man vibes and is nicknamed Butcher so the fact that he is an out of his depth midget is not to be discussed.

Good one. We should've started Maguire over Martinez in the FA Cup final and see how that would've turned out.