Maguire needs to be replaced

[JB7]

Out of the three who play regularly (him, Varane, Lindelof), he certainly is.

Lindelof is definitely at fault for more goals & chances then Maguire. Maybe you could argue it’s because he is easily bullied rather than making “errors” per se but generally speaking he’s nowhere near Maguire’s level.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Lindelof is definitely at fault for more goals & chances then Maguire. Maybe you could argue it’s because he is easily bullied rather than making “errors” per se but generally speaking he’s nowhere near Maguire’s level.

This is false, and an effect from your bias against Lindelof. I get it: you like Maguire and don't like Lindelof, that's a personal opinion and you're entitled to it.

From the Guardian today:

When Harry Maguire is good he is excellent and when bad he can be amateurish in a way the very best centre-backs never are. Think Liverpool’s Virgil van Dijk or Manchester City’s Rúben Dias, whose errors are collectors’ items, and who are yet to be witnessed in farcical defensive mode when it really counts, as Maguire was in his calamitous outing against Liverpool on Sunday. In 7,164 minutes of Premier League play since joining in summer 2019 the (supposed) defensive linchpin has the highest error-leading-to-chance tally of Manchester United’s outfield players: seven. The maligned – and dropped for Raphaël Varane – Victor Lindelöf is not in the top four, and Maguire’s two mistakes leading to goals is again the most of any non-goalkeeper. Last term Maguire was a model of consistency. But this season he is back to the Maguire of his opening campaign: inconsistent on a consistent basis. Maybe Ole Gunnar Solskjær should consider that a match or two out of the XI would shake Maguire up.

 

[JB7]

This is false, and an effect from your bias against Lindelof. I get it: you like Maguire and don't like Lindelof, that's a personal opinion and you're entitled to it.

From the Guardian today:

When Harry Maguire is good he is excellent and when bad he can be amateurish in a way the very best centre-backs never are. Think Liverpool’s Virgil van Dijk or Manchester City’s Rúben Dias, whose errors are collectors’ items, and who are yet to be witnessed in farcical defensive mode when it really counts, as Maguire was in his calamitous outing against Liverpool on Sunday. In 7,164 minutes of Premier League play since joining in summer 2019 the (supposed) defensive linchpin has the highest error-leading-to-chance tally of Manchester United’s outfield players: seven. The maligned – and dropped for Raphaël Varane – Victor Lindelöf is not in the top four, and Maguire’s two mistakes leading to goals is again the most of any non-goalkeeper. Last term Maguire was a model of consistency. But this season he is back to the Maguire of his opening campaign: inconsistent on a consistent basis. Maybe Ole Gunnar Solskjær should consider that a match or two out of the XI would shake Maguire up.

Firstly, no idea where you've got the idea I don't like Lindelof from, I have never said any such thing. He's a good player and I do like him, he's not one I'd be looking to move on but the fact is once Maguire gets into form he is on a different level to Lindelof. And secondly, I said "at fault for" which is quite clearly different to mistakes (for example, West Brom's goal last season wouldn't technically count as an "error" but was horrendous defending). It's a bizarre article to claim Maguire was "calamitous" on Sunday (he was) but saying nothing about Lindelof who was no better, I guess they were both fortunate that Luke Shaw was one the pitch because otherwise they both would've been down for 0/10.

The issue you have with is this, when Maguire is bad, he is really, really bad. And he has been dreadful since coming back from injury. I don't think anyone disputes that he shouldn't have been rushed back but that is more of a sign of the lack of trust the manager (rightly) has in Bailey/Lindelof as a pairing. Despite that article claiming he was a "model of consistency" last season, he started the season terribly and had to play himself into form. That's looking to be the case this season. He has a terrible relationship with the goalkeeper too which compounds matters.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

We spent £80m on a player with one of the worst CV's in football.

Relegated 4 times as a player - 3 of those with league-high goals conceded. He's lost 7 semi-finals, conceding 22 goals and scoring 2 own goals. The only time a club he's been with has won a semi-final has happened with Maguire warming the bench.

Since he came here we've set records for most goals conceded in a season at home in the PL era, longest run without a clean sheet in 48 years (Dec 2019), longest home run without a clean sheet in 50 years (currently ongoing) and most goals ever conceded in a CL group stage.

He has glaring athletic weaknesses which will only get worse, and he'll be 29 in a few months. His 'window' is fast running out.

Any way you look at it, it's one of the worst transfers in football history.

 

[YouknowNani]

Firstly, no idea where you've got the idea I don't like Lindelof from, I have never said any such thing. He's a good player and I do like him, he's not one I'd be looking to move on but the fact is once Maguire gets into form he is on a different level to Lindelof. And secondly, I said "at fault for" which is quite clearly different to mistakes (for example, West Brom's goal last season wouldn't technically count as an "error" but was horrendous defending). It's a bizarre article to claim Maguire was "calamitous" on Sunday (he was) but saying nothing about Lindelof who was no better, I guess they were both fortunate that Luke Shaw was one the pitch because otherwise they both would've been down for 0/10.

The issue you have with is this, when Maguire is bad, he is really, really bad. And he has been dreadful since coming back from injury. I don't think anyone disputes that he shouldn't have been rushed back but that is more of a sign of the lack of trust the manager (rightly) has in Bailey/Lindelof as a pairing. Despite that article claiming he was a "model of consistency" last season, he started the season terribly and had to play himself into form. That's looking to be the case this season. He has a terrible relationship with the goalkeeper too which compounds matters.

Maguire makes FAR more mistakes than Lindelof. As you said, when Maguire is bad he is, really really bad. But at the same time some like to claim, when he's good, he's really really good. He isn't. He's been average to poor throughout his time at United. Only more recently are his mistakes becoming more glaringly obvious due to the whole team being poor but even in his first 2 seasons with United there have been so many things wrong with his performances that go unnoticed by many. He consistently lets balls come across the box when he should cut it out. He's always caught in no mans land, doesn't know when to attack the ball or stand off. He consistently steps out of defence in an attempt to win the ball, miss times his challenge and the attacker is straight past him leaving us wide open. He has to be the slowest CB in the league, he can never recover his position quick enough if a player does pass him. He's constantly out of position meaning Shaw or Lindelof/Varane have to cover the space and leave their own position. It's been painful to watch and more often than not we got away with it last season but he's finally now really being found out. He should be nowhere near the first 11.

 

[Giggsy13]

I think it’s time to start looking at Maguire as one of our worst deals in history. For the price and outcome, one of the absolute worst.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

We're getting to the point now where Maguire's approaching the top of the "players we need to upgrade on" list. Probably a good sign of the progress the squad's made since August 2019, but also retroactive confirmation that spunking 130 million on him and Wan-Bissaka wasn't the best use of money back then.

Maguire was always laughably overpriced, but still just about worth it because a) he's an okay player, and b) for most of his time here there were bigger questions next to him at center-back (now addressed), as well as at left-back (addressed unless Shaw relapses yet again), right wing (should be addressed by Sancho), attacking midfield (Fernandes) and up front (Cavani/Ronaldo).

Once we've sorted the center of midfield (easier said than done tbf) out, it's probably him and Wan-Bissaka next on the chopping block.

 

[Tincanalley]

Desert Eagle. Yes. Great. Maguire, the new scapegoat. Fantastic. Obviously no scarcity of imaginative ideas in your department. Where would the Caf be without posters of your calibre?

 

[JB7]

Maguire makes FAR more mistakes than Lindelof. As you said, when Maguire is bad he is, really really bad. But at the same time some like to claim, when he's good, he's really really good. He isn't. He's been average to poor throughout his time at United. Only more recently are his mistakes becoming more glaringly obvious due to the whole team being poor but even in his first 2 seasons with United there have been so many things wrong with his performances that go unnoticed by many. He consistently lets balls come across the box when he should cut it out. He's always caught in no mans land, doesn't know when to attack the ball or stand off. He consistently steps out of defence in an attempt to win the ball, miss times his challenge and the attacker is straight past him leaving us wide open. He has to be the slowest CB in the league, he can never recover his position quick enough if a player does pass him. He's constantly out of position meaning Shaw or Lindelof/Varane have to cover the space and leave their own position. It's been painful to watch and more often than not we got away with it last season but he's finally now really being found out. He should be nowhere near the first 11.

Another person who doesn't understand the difference between "at fault for" and mistake/error despite it literally being explained in the post they have quoted.

Bolded - as I've said multiple times, zero relationship between him and DDG. Watch the instinctive look to the goalkeeper when those balls come into the box, this is not something unique to Maguire by the way. There is a reason he is far better in front of Pickford, Henderson, Schmeichel etc and it is painfully obvious that he will needs an offensive goalkeeper behind him both in and out of possession.

As for the other points, it's pretty clear you have your opinion and it's not going to change. I'm so glad our results have been so strong when he's dropped out of the team over the past couple of years to support your viewpoint that he is the root of all our problems.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Another person who doesn't understand the difference between "at fault for" and mistake/error despite it literally being explained in the post they have quoted.

Bolded - as I've said multiple times, zero relationship between him and DDG. Watch the instinctive look to the goalkeeper when those balls come into the box, this is not something unique to Maguire by the way. There is a reason he is far better in front of Pickford, Henderson, Schmeichel etc and it is painfully obvious that he will needs an offensive goalkeeper behind him both in and out of possession.

As for the other points, it's pretty clear you have your opinion and it's not going to change. I'm so glad our results have been so strong when he's dropped out of the team over the past couple of years to support your viewpoint that he is the root of all our problems.

So it’s DdGs fault his crap?

 

[Hammondo]

Lindelof is definitely at fault for more goals & chances then Maguire. Maybe you could argue it’s because he is easily bullied rather than making “errors” per se but generally speaking he’s nowhere near Maguire’s level.

Not this season he's not.

 

[JB7]

So it’s DdGs fault his crap?

Not at all. He has been shite this season as I’ve said multiple times. I don’t think we will see the best of him in front of DDG personally because of the reasons I’ve explained but that’s no defence of the performances this year. I don’t think he should be playing as he still looks miles away from fitness but again, that circles back to Oles lack of faith in Bailey/Lindelof as a pair.

 

[Oranges038]

So it’s DdGs fault his crap?

Defensive structure starts with the keeper and works it's out the pitch. DDG should be controlling the be back 4 and Maguire should be marshalling the defence and the players in front of him. It's pretty much both their fault the whole defence is crap.

The problems start with DDG.

DDG is the most senior player out there. He has no command or control over his back four. He creates confusion and panic in the box by not coming for balls into the box, he's just stuck to his line.

He plays too deep, so it sucks the defence deep, when the midfield push up, there's a massive gap in front of the back 4. When the ball goes in there, instead of being able to hold the line, one of them has to push into the space to try and get the ball. The defence loses all shape because of this time and time again. Same happens when Fred and McT seem to disappear and vacate the central areas.

Maguire compounds that by being slow, reactive and generally lacking any sort of leadership to man up and make sure the players around him are keeping shape and doing their jobs properly. It's made even worse when he can't even get his own job right most of time. Captain or not, if he's not fit or doing his job properly he shouldn't play.

 

[Frank Grimes]

We would have been better off signing Dougal Maguire. Amirite?

 

[Asger]

Another person who doesn't understand the difference between "at fault for" and mistake/error despite it literally being explained in the post they have quoted.

Bolded - as I've said multiple times, zero relationship between him and DDG. Watch the instinctive look to the goalkeeper when those balls come into the box, this is not something unique to Maguire by the way. There is a reason he is far better in front of Pickford, Henderson, Schmeichel etc and it is painfully obvious that he will needs an offensive goalkeeper behind him both in and out of possession.

As for the other points, it's pretty clear you have your opinion and it's not going to change. I'm so glad our results have been so strong when he's dropped out of the team over the past couple of years to support your viewpoint that he is the root of all our problems.

Stop compare England and United! Jesus. And he playes with two other DC and two dm. Everyone can look good for their national teams!

 

[United in sin]

I think people over react either way when it comes to him. Truth probably lies in the middle

He was missed for us at the end of last season and especially the final
However rushing him back was a move that has back fired immensely on Ole. Was this done due to varanes injury? Guessing Ole didn't trust bailly at all that he would rather a half fit Maguire?

Bailly and Lindelof were fine in the EL final overall

I don't recall people wanting Pogba to fail...I was at his 2nd home debut, crowd absolutely loved him.

Plus...relegation fighting Leicester? Not whilst Maguire was in the team

Also, how come when Rashford stinks the place out for best part of 18 months, it's because he has been "carrying a knock" and we're wrong to criticise him. Maguire soldiers on with a calf injury, clearly not fit, in a suicidal tactical set-up and it's "Maguire needs to be replaced". It baffles me. If I was Maguire I would be tempted to do what most players would do and sack it off, "sorry boss, I'm injured"...let's see how much better we do with Bailly and Lindelof

Stinking up the place? Rashford was our second top scorer last season and it was his second straight season scoring 20 or more goals in all competitions. He also got 11 assists. No one has scored more than him under Solskjaer's reign, over 50 goals

 

[Desert Eagle]

Desert Eagle. Yes. Great. Maguire, the new scapegoat. Fantastic. Obviously no scarcity of imaginative ideas in your department. Where would the Caf be without posters of your calibre?

Glad we're on the same page buddy.

We spent £80m on a player with one of the worst CV's in football.

Relegated 4 times as a player - 3 of those with league-high goals conceded. He's lost 7 semi-finals, conceding 22 goals and scoring 2 own goals. The only time a club he's been with has won a semi-final has happened with Maguire warming the bench.

Since he came here we've set records for most goals conceded in a season at home in the PL era, longest run without a clean sheet in 48 years (Dec 2019), longest home run without a clean sheet in 50 years (currently ongoing) and most goals ever conceded in a CL group stage.

He has glaring athletic weaknesses which will only get worse, and he'll be 29 in a few months. His 'window' is fast running out.

Any way you look at it, it's one of the worst transfers in football history.

And to top it all off we made him captain almost immediately.

 

[Beans]

I'm not sure you can press the way a top team needs to press these days with Harry Maguire. Can't play a high line with him in the team.

 

[dal]

defence conceeded more than Arsenal and Liverpool. didn't win any individual awards and never properly organised the defence. we conceded most from set pieces in the league. What did he do well?

literally the worst captain. does not lead by example nor inspire the team or defence. Looks as lost as the others when we need someone to turn to. The role is too big for him. Fails to organise the defence and crashes into teammates. Too soft

Well he’s improved his league position every season and got two consecutive top 3 finishes something we haven’t done since SAF left.

Our spoilt fans won’t recognise this.

This season it’s not good enough, a resolution must be found, I actually think we will improve. He needs to find big big balls though.

 

[Leftback99]

I'm not sure you can press the way a top team needs to press these days with Harry Maguire. Can't play a high line with him in the team.

You can't play a high line without a keeper that sweeps up.

 

[Stacks]

Well he’s improved his league position every season and got two consecutive top 3 finishes something we haven’t done since SAF left.

Our spoilt fans won’t recognise this.

This season it’s not good enough, a resolution must be found, I actually think we will improve. He needs to find big big balls though.

oh please. 66 pts and 74 pts is nothing to write home about and shows a lack of real comp (in normal seasons that would get anywhere from 6th-3rd). we got more points and conceded less goals in both Jose full seasons (2017,2018). This was false hope and people underestimated the COVID impact, lack of fans and our actual poor performances. We also crashed out of our CL group. It was only a matter of time for the chickens to come home to roost as our rivals would bounce back to being 90+ point teams which we were far from.

 

[jderbyshire]

I wouldn't say he needs to be replaced, just needs dropping to keep him on his toes.

This thing of him starting every game no matter what unless he's got a broken leg needs to stop.

We all know he should never have started against Leicester and that's Ole's fault.

But yeah he needs, I wouldn't say "bringing down a peg or two" but needs to know he has to play well every game or he won't start.

I guess we'll have to wait for Varane to be fit again because it doesn't seem like Ole will ever play Bailly and Lindelof against a top tier side.

 

[Loony BoB]

Nobody should be an absolute starter, I agree on that. I do think, however, that partnerships need to be built and when a CD partnership changes you need time for the new pairing to adjust. I don't want us to go back to the days of CD rotation, which is a recipe for disaster, but I do feel that Lindelof is an underrated player who could potentially do well with Varane.

@Stacks - very selective with the stats you picked out, and some of them are incorrect.

"66 pts and 74 pts is nothing to write home about and shows a lack of real comp (in normal seasons that would get anywhere from 6th-3rd). we got more points and conceded less goals in both Jose full seasons (2017,2018)"

Jose only surpassed 74 points in one season. Similarly, while he did concede less, we also scored less. Here's a balanced view, both had their strengths and weaknesses clearly (all are averages, obviously):

Jose: 1.6 goals per game, 0.9 conceded per game, goal difference 0.7 goals per game, 1.89 points per game.
Ole: 1.8 goals per game, 1.1 conceded per game, goal difference 0.67 goals per game, 1.83 points per game.

It's not a huge gap between the two, we could argue it all until the cows come home, but best to provide a clear picture when possible.

Also, regarding "in any other season" - that's an awkward comparison as some seasons the lower sides can have better teams, some seasons the upper sides can have worse teams, etc. You can only compare against the other 19 teams in the league that season.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don't rate him very highly, but the last player I remember playing as abysmally as him was Pogba. And it turned out back then that Ole did indeed play Pogba when he wasn't right.

So I'd wager it's a case of Ole not learning and going back to his old habits of playing unfit players to save himself. I doubt Maguire is as bad as we're currently seeing.

That said, he absolutely should lose the captaincy and his guaranteed starting spot.

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

Maguire will be fine. He’s performed well for us in the past and he will do so again. He probably needs to sit until his fitness improves. That being said, the people trying to pump up Lindeloff at Harry’s expense are comical. Lindeloff is as soft as butter, I can’t handle watching him get physically manhandled by every striker in the league. You think he would at some point understand this glaring weakness and hit the weight room occasionally, but nope, comes back every year just as skinny and fragile as the year before.

 

[Skills]

So far in his career, Harry Maguire has featured in defences that have conceded more than 3 goals the following number of times:

Man Utd (19/20-21/22 so far)
3 goals - 8
4 goals - 2
5 goals - 1
6 goals - 1

Leicester (17/18-18/19)
3 goals -4
4 goals -4
5 goals - 3

Hull City (16/17)
3 goals - 8
4 goals - 3
5 goals - 1
6 goals - 1
7 goals - 1

I don't know about anyone else, but this isn't a good sign for a CB. He seems to have ended up on the end of quite a few drubbings throughout his top level career - irrespective of who he plays for.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Nah.

In the right setup, Varane/Maguire should be a very good combo.

 

[YouknowNani]

Another person who doesn't understand the difference between "at fault for" and mistake/error despite it literally being explained in the post they have quoted.

Bolded - as I've said multiple times, zero relationship between him and DDG. Watch the instinctive look to the goalkeeper when those balls come into the box, this is not something unique to Maguire by the way. There is a reason he is far better in front of Pickford, Henderson, Schmeichel etc and it is painfully obvious that he will needs an offensive goalkeeper behind him both in and out of possession.

As for the other points, it's pretty clear you have your opinion and it's not going to change. I'm so glad our results have been so strong when he's dropped out of the team over the past couple of years to support your viewpoint that he is the root of all our problems.

I know the difference, and Maguire is 9 times out of 10 at fault and they are his errors. When I speak of Maguire letting balls across the box, in the majority of cases it's low balls and balls at the near post, absolutely nothing to do with the goalkeeper. These are balls that should be cut out before the goalkeeper is even contemplating any involvement.

And in reference to your point in bold. He's barely dropped out of the team to give any other pairing a chance. If you think our defence is better with Maguire, I'll refer to somebody else's point made a few posts back; "Since he came here we've set records for most goals conceded in a season at home in the PL era, longest run without a clean sheet in 48 years (Dec 2019), longest home run without a clean sheet in 50 years (currently ongoing) and most goals ever conceded in a CL group stage."

He's crap.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Our fans are like chicken. They forget very easily

 

[JB7]

I know the difference, and Maguire is 9 times out of 10 at fault and they are his errors. When I speak of Maguire letting balls across the box, in the majority of cases it's low balls and balls at the near post, absolutely nothing to do with the goalkeeper. These are balls that should be cut out before the goalkeeper is even contemplating any involvement.

Low balls inside the 6 yard box & near post balls are absolutely the responsibility of a goalkeeper.

 

[cj_sparky]

His Sky interview on now is absolute waffle.

 

[bosniamanutd]

De Gea deserves to be a captain. Meguire deserves a place on bench for a while.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Should never be United captain.

 

[::sonny::]

 

[YouknowNani]

Low balls inside the 6 yard box & near post balls are absolutely the responsibility of a goalkeeper.

Where did I say inside the 6 yard box? Stop twisting what people say to suit your argument. Maguire is absolutely woeful and we'll never win anything with him as our captain and him at CB.

 

[Get In Scholesy]

I’m not sure he needs to be dropped as a permanent starter, cause I don’t see anyone aside from Varane that is all around better than him.

However, it does seem that he needs to be carried, currently playing with 2 CB partners and 2 holding midfielders to protect his deficiencies.

It’s pretty dire for an “elite” CB.

I think the quicker we accept that he is not elite and take him for what he is (above average defender who can have good spells and really bad spells) the quicker we can move forward as a team.

 

[YouknowNani]

I’m not sure he needs to be dropped as a permanent starter, cause I don’t see anyone aside from Varane that is all around better than him.

However, it does seem that he needs to be carried, currently playing with 2 CB partners and 2 holding midfielders to protect his deficiencies.

It’s pretty dire for an “elite” CB.

I think the quicker we accept that he is not elite and take him for what he is (above average defender who can have good spells and really bad spells) the quicker we can move forward as a team.

Lindelof, Bailly, literally ay CB at the club is better. It's a farce he still plays at this point. We only need 5 at the back BECAUSE of Maguire being so poor and constantly being caught out of position.

 

[Lee565]

If we want to be a pressing side I can't see it involving Maguire and think the better partnership would be varane and bailly if coached correctly in being able to play a high line

 

[westmeath]

He’s the worst United signing ever and the sooner we realise this and bench him the better. He was no better than usual tonight but Varane providing cover meant that we didn’t pay for it. Bench him and sell him ASAP. Newcastle would buy him in January. We should gift wrap him and send him Tyneside.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Not so long ago he was one of three best defenders on international tournament... now he's Titus Bramble.

I'll never understand how some mechanics work in the club, but it's time to start squeezing best out of the players, or there's no point in fighting for anything major.