Maguire needs a partner, Maguire needs a partner!

You have to play well over the rest of the pitch to do well defensively.
 
ekestubbe said:
In my opinion he has never really been quite as good a CB as people have hoped he was. Previous seasons it's been easy to just blame Victor or whoever else has played next to him becase Maguire is English, cost a fortune and for some reason was made captain nearly immediately. Now with Varane in the team it might be harder to ignore the fact that Maguire is far from the level of other PL top CBs.
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That’s a bit harsh based on his season last year but yeah he is not the player some thought he would be nevermind the 80m that was the clubs fault not Maguire but he isn’t a top CB and never will be.
I always find it impressive how he wins so many headers from corners and equally unimpressive how he never gets them on target
 
Red_toad said:
Care to state said mistakes that have ended up in goals conceded? I know Varane has 1 so far this season, but not Harry as yet.
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Its not a comparison to Varane and they dont have to end up as a goal. The weird back pass to De Gea in the last game also count as a mistake. On another day it could have been a goal. But to be fair he wasnt helped by his team mates. When we are playing the ball at the back you can see how sometimes our players struggle to find a good spot to pass to. Most of the ball end up to Shaw, we re relying on him for too much when in posession. Im genuinely scared whenever any of our CB has to receive the ball with one player ready to press him, its either back to De Gea or to Shaw. Im not a manager but that does look very weird. Playing from the back but without any purpose other than finding a space to pass it to Shaw.
 
Red_toad said:
Care to state said mistakes that have ended up in goals conceded? I know Varane has 1 so far this season, but not Harry as yet.
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His back pass the other day, his diving in against Newcastle(I think) on half way line that lead to a goal. It’s not just errors he seems worse with the ball and less confident when we are defending
 
432JuanMata said:
His back pass the other day, his diving in against Newcastle(I think) on half way line that lead to a goal. It’s not just errors he seems worse with the ball and less confident when we are defending
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What backpass? The one by Jesse? His ‘dive’ wasn’t an error, he was fouled and no free kick was given, plus numerous defenders behind him. Yes he’s slightly off form, but you’d think we are lacking loads of goals every game.
 
tenpoless said:
Its not a comparison to Varane and they dont have to end up as a goal. The weird back pass to De Gea in the last game also count as a mistake. On another day it could have been a goal. But to be fair he wasnt helped by his team mates. When we are playing the ball at the back you can see how sometimes our players struggle to find a good spot to pass to. Most of the ball end up to Shaw, we re relying on him for too much when in posession. Im genuinely scared whenever any of our CB has to receive the ball with one player ready to press him, its either back to De Gea or to Shaw. Im not a manager but that does look very weird. Playing from the back but without any purpose other than finding a space to pass it to Shaw.
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I didn’t say it was, but Varane hasn’t been faultless either and his errors have resulted in goals. I don’t think anyone can blame Harry if when he brings the ball out of defence he has no options as our players aren’t making themselves available, apart from Shaw. Be good to have someone akin to Scholes sat in front of them, he was always available and rarely lost the ball, really helped the team look solid.
 
Maguire has been very poor so far this season. Lets hope he finds his form again soon.
 
He had a slow start last season but played himself back into form and rhythm. ended up having a great season.
Such a shame injury will prevent him this time round.

That's football. We'll have to wait longer.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Maguire has been very poor so far this season. Lets hope he finds his form again soon.
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Lets be honest Varane hasnt been great either. He's been done a few times tbf which have been overlooked.

But like Maguire (once fit) I'm confident he'll adjust and find form and rhythm in his game.

He's too good a player not to right?
 
GueRed said:
Lets be honest Varane hasnt been great either. He's been done a few times tbf which have been overlooked.

But like Maguire (once fit) I'm confident he'll adjust and find form and rhythm in his game.

He's too good a player not to right?
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I think Varane overall has looked better tbh, and he has the excuse of still settling in. So far, the partnership doesn't look great, but it'll take time. It doesn't help that Maguire is out of form. Lets also take into account too that Shaw and AWB haven't looked great either. Shaw and Maguire were brilliant last season, so here's to hoping they find they form again soon.
 
Lash said:
They went to a back 3 though, it's not like they replaced like for like.
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Their xGA has stayed pretty much the same too

In Maguire's two seasons it was 48.1 & 44.3 and after he left it was 44.5 & 47.7. They did concede 60 goals in 17-18 but that looks to be mostly down to a terrible season from their keeper who conceded 8.6 more goals than his PSxG which was the second worst shot-stopping performance in the league that season.
 
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Maguire and Varane are the least of my concerns.

Our problems stem from a total lack of pressing from the front, a substandard midfield and a lack of a clear ideas on how to deal with turnovers of possession
 
Sorry - but this is an embarrassing thread really. Maguire has not made the best start to the season and is making some individual mistakes but he is a very good defender.

Our defence is hardly the problem.If we keep our back 4 fit, we will concede one of the fewest goals in the league this season.
 
Continued to be exposed by shit work rate and positioning of players in front of them.

Maguire has started slowly but won’t be the problem long term.
 
FatTails said:
I predict that at some point next season, or even later this season, you’ll start hearing that Varane needs a better partner than Maguire.

It’s the endless cycle with our fanbase. We always need just one more player for just one more position. Then when we do buy the player for that one position, someone else on the field is now shit and needs to be replaced.

I heard AWB, who was considered a very astute signing at some point in the recent past, is now considered by many to be a bit shit.

No thread title on this forum is more accurate than “What do we still need? AKA the never ending story”
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Maybe we will hear that, but maybe it will be true as well. That doesn't mean we have to expect a new signing, but nor does it mean we have to accept our lot in life. The defining feature of Fergie's tenure was that he was always looking to improve the team, even after winning the league or even the Champions League.

Players going from "good" signings to "bad" signings is not a new thing, nor is it necessarily incorrect. Supporters will usually be overly optimistic about signings. It's natural to focus more on how signings need to improve after they've spent some time at the club.

Also, here's something you said recently when discussing Ole:

FatTails said:
Oh here comes that "I am a better fan than you" posts. Best indication that the poster is best ignored.
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It strikes me that your post could very well be interpreted in the same way. People have different opinions, that's just how it is.
 
Some players are slow starters, sometimes players lose form.. Etc.

Why do fans act like players are as good as their last game?
 
The problem isn't, as I've been saying for a long time and I think people start to realize that now, personnel. Our problem is the lack of coaching. It's simply impossible to defend when you constantly have pacey, good attackers running at you. It doesn't matter if you have peak Ramos and Van Dijk when there's a gaping hole between the midfield and back four. As someone here said, we don't defend as a team and we don't attack as a team.
 
MZX7 said:
Ok, now that we have Varane, why are we still leaking goals?
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Stopped reading there.

We have only conceded 2 goals when both Varane and Maguire are on the pitch. One of those goals was a freaky deflection from 20 yards out.
 
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Classical Mechanic said:
Their xGA has stayed pretty much the same too

In Maguire's two seasons it was 48.1 & 44.3 and after he left it was 44.5 & 47.7. They did concede 60 goals in 17-18 but that looks to be mostly down to a terrible season from their keeper who conceded 8.6 more goals than his PSxG which was the second worst shot-stopping performance in the league that season.
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That's interesting. Maguire has obvious flaws, like all players, but he has obvious qualities as well. He's just started the season poorly.
 
Well, we're about to play without him for a few weeks, with Varane in place unlike last season. Maybe we'll have a better idea where our defence is at by then. Last weekend, Villa replaced Tuanzebe with a Hause who'd hardly played all season and they didn't seem to suffer much. Defended well against us...as a team. That's what we need to do.
 
Red_toad said:
I didn’t say it was, but Varane hasn’t been faultless either and his errors have resulted in goals. I don’t think anyone can blame Harry if when he brings the ball out of defence he has no options as our players aren’t making themselves available, apart from Shaw. Be good to have someone akin to Scholes sat in front of them, he was always available and rarely lost the ball, really helped the team look solid.
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It will take time for Varane and Maguire to get used to each others play and sort this out.
I think last few seasons Maguire was the organizer when partnering Lindelof or Bailly.
With Varane, this has changed as he is more experienced and Maguire doesn't shout instructions at him like the others.
They will come good.
 
We leak goals cos we only defend with 6 players. It's too easy to overload us on the wings. Sides who play 343/541 in particular, the opposing wing backs can arrive in the box unmarked at will.
 
Our press off the ball is poor. However, Maguire has been below par individually. As someone pointed out, he goes Walkabout at times, forcing others to lose their possession, and there have been at least a couple of goals, where we've also conceded points, because of this. That is not down to coaching - it is individual mistakes. Lingard was an individual mistake and had nothing to do with coaching. Maguire's backpass to DDG, five yards in front of a goalie close to attackers is borderline stupidity, and only quick reflexes from DDG saved his arse. AWB has been poor, and I don't think Shaw has been good either.

Fred has looked tired and backs out of 50-50 duels, thus certain to lose the ball. McTominay looks decent after being out for such a long spell, so hopefully he can improve further. Fred is more of a concern at the moment. I like Fred, but I cannot see Donny doing any worse at the moment. Also, we have no players in the front three that works hard in defense with Ronaldo, Sancho and Greenwood. I can understand Ronaldo, but he still works harder than Greenwood.

Against Villareal, I would not mind a 3-5-2 with Cavani and Ronaldo on top and Telles and Dalot as wingbacks. That could accomodate both Pogba and Bruno. We lack a little speed in that line-up, but I think it could work.
 
GueRed said:
He had a slow start last season but played himself back into form and rhythm. ended up having a great season.
Such a shame injury will prevent him this time round.

That's football. We'll have to wait longer.
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Exactly, its absolutely ridiculous the way players are written off after a few poor games and we are so positive about other teams, all of a sudden Leicester have a better defence despite their defence being heavily criticised this season, fecking ridiculous!
 
A big issue is a weak midfield that isn't protecting the defence at all. You defend as a team, look at Liverpool, they often have two great centre backs and then 2 or 3 really solid defensive minded midfielders and then allow the full backs and front 3 to do the majority of attacking play.

Our midfield pales compared to their and I think its where most of our issues stem from.
 
MZX7 said:
Basically, all we heard about our defense last season was Maguire needs a partner. Lindelof was panned left, right and center.

Ok, now that we have Varane, why are we still leaking goals? Our defense looks shocking at times. Caught out of position, still conceding goals from set pieces, making lousy backpasses that catch the goalie off-guard, letting easy through-balls by opponents and scampering behind their wingers or center forwards, hoping to block the pass/shot.

Why is this still happening?

  1. Is it because Varane and Maguire need time to strike up a good partnership?
  2. Is it because Wan Bissaka and Shaw haven't started as well as they finished last season?
  3. Is it because of our shite McFred midfield?
  4. Is it because Pogba, Ronaldo and Greenwood don't work as hard as Bruno in defense?
  5. Is it our coaching?
  6. Is it a combination of all of the above?
Also, the need for a DM was staring us in the face entire last season. Why didn't we go for Declan Rice or some similar dude?

It is frustrating that among the top 4, we have the most goals conceded.

Please help me calm down Caf!
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We're not leaking goals, but we're conceding 1 goal per game on occasion (excluding the Young Boys game since its not the EPL), which has unfortunately been costly. I'm more disappointed that we're scoring less than 2 per game.

We didn't go for Declan Rice because West Ham wants £100m pounds which is an ridiculous cost for a player with 1 good season. I would definitely have prefered to have a DM, but I'm willing to play the realistic game for this one.

When you allow goals from 1 situation, its helpful to look at the situation itself and see what caused it.

Everyone loves to hate on McFred, primarily because Fred loses the ball, McTominay isn't stepping a lot of feet wrong. DVB has still not proved that he's a capable option, how many games should we give him where he's underwhelming to see if he's a great fit?

Have we conceded a goal because of Varane or Maguire? If so what did any of them do to allow it?

Honestly I'm more concerned about goalscoring than allowing 1 goal per game. The goal per game obviously need to come down to some clean sheets, but we need to be scoring 2+ per game with the attacking options we have. The only thing that changed from previous year is the inclusion of Ronaldo and Sanco. Sancho has had a poor start to the season, he's making poor plays and overall he's struggling a bit to find footing in the Premier League. He DID have a good game against Newcastle, so hopefuly he'll pick up prodution soon.
 
Isn't it amazing that sometimes the other team scores? Who would of thought it the other team actually scores goals, what do they think there doing? Playing football!?

I mean we have conceded 3 goals that have come from unlucky deflections (Southampton, West ham in the league and the first against young boys) and then one from a catastrophic mistake from a midfielder (second against young boys).

We got lucky in the wolves game to not concede i will grant you that but that was more to do with Fred and pogba failing to do anything to stop wolves counters. But I wouldn't say we have been giving up chances galore.
 
Maguire himself has been poor. Now he's injured and Lindelof has a serious chance of staking the No1 spot.

Ole will never have the balls to drop his captain properly though.
 
nimic said:
Maybe we will hear that, but maybe it will be true as well. That doesn't mean we have to expect a new signing, but nor does it mean we have to accept our lot in life. The defining feature of Fergie's tenure was that he was always looking to improve the team, even after winning the league or even the Champions League.

Players going from "good" signings to "bad" signings is not a new thing, nor is it necessarily incorrect. Supporters will usually be overly optimistic about signings. It's natural to focus more on how signings need to improve after they've spent some time at the club.

Also, here's something you said recently when discussing Ole:



It strikes me that your post could very well be interpreted in the same way. People have different opinions, that's just how it is.
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Haha good catch I got must admit and you have a point about my tone here. Transfer talk and the promise of a transfer fixing everything is such a huge turn off for me. We’ve spent the last 8 years throwing silly money at the problem and often with very poor results. We often lose to teams who have built their entire squads for less than one of our players’ transfer fee and the refrain on here is that we are still missing players to win.

I don’t know what the solution really is, I’m just a fan, but I know it can’t possibly be another 150m every summer.
 
CB's normally take a bit of time to develop a good understanding and partnership. Rio+Vidic looked terrible at first, but developed into one of the finest CB pairings we've ever seen

Not saying Maguire and Varane are ever going to reach those heights, but on paper i think Varane is as good as it gets in terms of partnering Maguire
 
Tom Van Persie said:
He's been poor and I think a lot of it has to do with rushing back to play in the Euros. I wasn't surprised when he picked up another injury on the weekend. He hasn't looked right to me.
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Going by the previous game he played, I'd say that goes for Shaw too, so it's probably to do with the Euros.
Maguire also played pretty much every minute last season, including most of the Euros, so it's no surprise if he's off his game and picking up injuries.
 
FatTails said:
Haha good catch I got must admit and you have a point about my tone here. Transfer talk and the promise of a transfer fixing everything is such a huge turn off for me. We’ve spent the last 8 years throwing silly money at the problem and often with very poor results. We often lose to teams who have built their entire squads for less than one of our players’ transfer fee and the refrain on here is that we are still missing players to win.

I don’t know what the solution really is, I’m just a fan, but I know it can’t possibly be another 150m every summer.
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Yep, I get what you're saying!
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
I think the answer is found in the puzzle that Leicester sold him and improved their defense.
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They fleeced us on price, that's for sure, the bigger issue is we bought him knowing his weaknesses and then generally setup in a manner which has the potential to expose him. People have started banging on about the CDM need but 1) we don't play that way and 2) Ole has said he wants all rounders in the pivot so it's a moot point.

If we want to play a high line the hard truth is Maguire will always have games where he struggles, if we want to play a deeper line he is excellent but then is that how United want to play?
 
FatTails said:
Haha good catch I got must admit and you have a point about my tone here. Transfer talk and the promise of a transfer fixing everything is such a huge turn off for me. We’ve spent the last 8 years throwing silly money at the problem and often with very poor results. We often lose to teams who have built their entire squads for less than one of our players’ transfer fee and the refrain on here is that we are still missing players to win.

I don’t know what the solution really is, I’m just a fan, but I know it can’t possibly be another 150m every summer.
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The constant refrain of 'we're a couple of top players away from being a really good team' reminds me so much of 2000s Liverpool that it makes me cry. It was so entertaining when their fans were doing it back then.
 
Calm down! This is knee-jerk reaction. It’s only a few matches into this partnership. They didn’t defend that goal vs
Villa. We played with 10 men at YB. Carabao cup isn’t their fault either. They may flop, or succeed. Let’s decide at the end of this season, or next.
 
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