Maguire and Lindelof Partnership

Ralph1386 said:
Why does Ole not see what we see in this partnership?
Click to expand...

What choice has he got right now?

People are saying Bailly has shown good form, but if anything he’s just proving that we can easily upgrade the defence. The only thing Bailly was doing differently in that period of five games was cut out the brainless mistakes. His level of defending has always been good.
 
If in the summer we don’t get another centre back, whether it be the fault of Ole or the board then we can safely say this club is not progressing any further. We won’t win the league with that partnership, everyone can see it except the people that matter. It’s getting embarrassing.
 
Would take Burnley's centre halves over them. 2 flowers in the box
 
Neither are good enough currently, certainly not as a pairing. Now that we are being a bit more adventurous with our FBs, it is exposing our CBs badly.
 
Surely a guy like McTominay is a better option for CB than someone like Lindelof at this moment? Anyone half decent player who's strong and agressive and not a complete bottler should be a better option.
 
They are clearly not a good partnership, personally think it’s going to be tough to find right partner for Maguire as he is only suited to sitting deep. Have to buy a CB and they have to be very quick.
 
It's not a partnership. There's no understanding or chemistry there. Despite how often they've played together they don't seem to know how the other will play or be. It's like two strangers playing together. Abysmal after the best part of two seasons.
 
We conceded three shots on target, one of which was the direct result of a horrible piece of goalkeeping. Yet once again posters come on here and blame the defenders. I've got news for you guys....DCL is an International CF, James Rodriguez has played for Real Madrid and Bayern Munich, Gylfi Sigurddson cost £50m, Iwobi cost £40m, Richarlison is a Brazilian International. Of course they are going to have shots on goal! What do you all expect? That every single game we concede zero shots on target?

What's confusing the issue currently and skewing the stats is that our GK is absolutely awful beyond belief. With ANY other GK in the league, we win that game comfortably...then who is coming on here whingeing about little minor half errors by defenders?

I'm telling you all now, no defence is perfect but the problem here is that we have a keeper who make no mistake about it, is literally incapable of doing anything and hasn't been for a couple of seasons now. Take him out and watch our defence improve overnight.
 
The damming thing is that playing Fred/McT cuts their workload down, but even with that added protection teams get so much joy from few opportunities,when they need to be strong they rarely are.
 
I hate this partnership. I just don't feel safe with them two on at the same time. Always a cockup waiting to happen
 
People focus on pace but Lindelof being awful in the air will always be an issue, particularly when we have a goal keeper that is such a weak link on set pieces.
 
#07 said:
It's not a partnership. There's no understanding or chemistry there. Despite how often they've played together they don't seem to know how the other will play or be. It's like two strangers playing together. Abysmal after the best part of two seasons.
Click to expand...

The second goal sums it up. Lindelof with a shit header, when Maguire is in a better position to clear it and all they need is to communicate in a empty stadium.
 
Maguire wont be sold otherwise Ole will look stupid. In Maguires favour he is played on his weaker side, but thats a clutching at straws thing. I dont know if he would be any better on the right.
Ole can sell Lindelof though as he didnt buy him and I would also like to see the obvious Jones, Tuanebe who isnt good enough at this level and Bailley leave. Bailley is a good defender, but unfortunately like Jones spends more time on the treatment table than the pitch.
Or priority ought to be buying a very experienced quick left footed CD 26+ years old and a younger but talented quick CD who wont mind sitting on the bench. Easier said than done i know. We could also promote our best youth player as well.
What we shouldnt be doing is going into next season with the same or most of the same central defenders here.
 
In my head, I could see this working and when it was talked about right at the beginning of their partnership, I thought that it had promise. But, in reality, it's not perfect, or even close to perfect. They're two players who play side by side, but I think calling it a partnership is a stretch.
 
Though I like both, I’m not a fan of playing both together, especially when they are up against a forward that can run the channels. Calvert Lewin exposed the fault in this partnership tonight. A quick, physical and dominant centre back must be a high priority in the summer, we need the stability, we want to play higher up the pitch and attack without sweating every-time the ball is turned over.
 
Our build-up also suffers so much because neither of them are able to play passes to each other with the right power and angle which can enable to other one to distribute without taking 2-3 touches. By the time they get in under control, the passing lanes become narrower, and neither of them have the confidence to play balls between lines.
The less we talk about their defending the better.
 
There is a lot of clamour about Victor Lindelof, and that he is not good enough and ultimately I think there is a good defender in him - however what we should have realised months ago is that they are both understudy CB's and together it just does not work unless we are sitting back and compact - i.e. against Liverpool, to an extent against Arsenal, the Chelsea, City games earlier this season.

I can't see a chance of us getting rid of Harry Maguire, and whilst he has his flaws - there is no doubt he is a good defender. His presence in the air is something we have not had for a long time, and other than his turn and lack of pace his other attributes are pretty good. Even if you look yesterday, his pace meant DCL was going to get away in the channel but he showed him to such a place that really he could only make a cross to the near post which should have been dealt with. Defending is always as a team, and ultimately you need your partner or GK to execute well to support you. After Harvey Barnes scored against us I saw a clip of Rio explaining that sometimes they would have a chat with VDS and agree that a shot on the edge of the box, they need to block one side and VDS will focus on the other etc.

Harry Maguire with Bailly beside him looked a lot more secure, but really yesterday putting Victor and Harry together was something we would all do. If Bailly was fit it is a different question - but his fitness has cost us again, if he was fit he plays vs Sheff Utd and probably again today - he just can't keep fit and we need to go out and buy a CB that can build a strong partnership with Harry Maguire, with Victor, Bailly in reserve. Throwing Axel in because has pace is not the answer (see below).

I know this post is about Lindelof and Maguire, but I am starting to really worry about Axel. There is no doubt a defender there, look at how he played vs Mbappe. But truly speaking any defender making it to that level, has a defender in them. What concerns me is he seems to just have constant bad moments in him, a lot due to bad luck more than himself being bad but as a defender that is the last thing you need.

- vs Istanbul (a) - a nightmare of a first half, including an unnecessary booking and could have potentially been sent off
- vs Leicester (a) - can't say it was his fault, but a match costing deflection
- vs Sheff Utd (h) - a stupid yellow card, not strong enough for the first goal and really poor for the second - swinging with your wrong foot so close to goal is not responsible - the first time he passed it back into trouble and the second deflected into the net
- yesterday - a tackle he should be executing, the whole ball is there - you win the ball and the game is done
 
I don’t think they really work as a partnership. Lindelöf is somewhat of a luxury defender; he’s not quick, he’s not strong, he’s not good in the air, and I wouldn’t say he makes up for any of this with his positioning. He’s an ok defender with a decent pass on him, that’s about it.

Maguire has his flaws, but he also has his strengths. He’s quite clearly the superior defender. A CB partnership should have the full package between them, which isn’t going to happen with Lindelöf. Add in a very accident prone keeper who is past his best, and it’s a recipe for disaster.
 
Here are the crucial PL and CL stats for this season

Our preferred back 4 (Bissaka - Lindelof - Maguire - Shaw) has conceded 8 goals in 11 games when played together. And that's with a poor goalkeeper behind.

Every other combination has conceded 32 goals in 18 games.

Everybody needs to lay off Lindelof and Maguire.

The defense is alright.
 
UnitedRepublic said:
Ole should of given Smalling a chance to be honest. Passing it out from the back ain't working for us
Smallings a superb old school defender he might not have the feet, but he has pace and some balls when defending.
I constantly see us resorting to hoof the ball up. There would be no difference except for that we'd be better in the air,
safer at the back and he would compliment Maguire quite well. Remember Smalling used to score a couple each season aswell.
They don't call him Smalldini for nothing.
Click to expand...

I said this over and over again as even though Smalling has his limitations what he does have is the perfect attributes to compliment Maguire, the best combinations don’t automatically have to be the best players but the best partnership.

What Smalling has is being a very good pure defender who’s quick, great in the air, a threat in the opposition box, always fit to play and experience at the highest levels for both club and country so alongside Maguire would have meant we had someone who’d be able to do what Bailly can do when fit but regularly.

Smalling wouldn’t have needed to be first choice as Bailly when fit could be and as seen Bailly and Maguire look good alongside each other but with Maguire never being injured we could have used Bailly, Smalling and Tuanzebe all alongside Maguire and ALL of them would look better alongside Maguire due to having the attributes and strengths to compliment Maguire whereas Lindelof is not only as slow as Maguire but also extremely weak in the air and extremely weak against strong centre forwards.

The only thing I can think of that makes sense in why Ole persists with Lindelof and Maguire is that both are fit but then with talk of Lindelof having some long standing back injury that keeps flaring up even Lindelof always being fit isn’t a reason anymore.
 
I don't blame Maguire and Lindelof for the result. Everton had 3 shots on target, 6 in total. This is as good as it gets against top 6 sides in the EPL.

That said, what worries me is neither of them look comfortable in going toe to toe with a strong and fast forward. Maguire is just slow and Lindelof looks weak overall, so he's the one who I'd replace in first XI. I think Lindelof will make a good backup defender though.
 
Extremely incompatible together

They both need someone quicker and braver next to them. But Lindelof also needs someone stronger in the air next to him. Lindelof has perhaps been better with the ball than Maguire this season. But given our terrible defensive record, the better defender is obviously the more important aspect at the moment. Due to his strength, ball winning in the air and being more proactive to win the ball with his good rate of interceptions Maguire is the better option. But I think he clearly needs someone next to him that can help cover his weaknesses with speed and at times aggression.
 
A proper CDM and GK would help them out ALOT! Imagine Allison behind them winning all the balls into the box and clearing every ball put behind the back line.
 
davidmichael said:
I said this over and over again as even though Smalling has his limitations what he does have is the perfect attributes to compliment Maguire, the best combinations don’t automatically have to be the best players but the best partnership.

What Smalling has is being a very good pure defender who’s quick, great in the air, a threat in the opposition box, always fit to play and experience at the highest levels for both club and country so alongside Maguire would have meant we had someone who’d be able to do what Bailly can do when fit but regularly.

Smalling wouldn’t have needed to be first choice as Bailly when fit could be and as seen Bailly and Maguire look good alongside each other but with Maguire never being injured we could have used Bailly, Smalling and Tuanzebe all alongside Maguire and ALL of them would look better alongside Maguire due to having the attributes and strengths to compliment Maguire whereas Lindelof is not only as slow as Maguire but also extremely weak in the air and extremely weak against strong centre forwards.

The only thing I can think of that makes sense in why Ole persists with Lindelof and Maguire is that both are fit but then with talk of Lindelof having some long standing back injury that keeps flaring up even Lindelof always being fit isn’t a reason anymore.
Click to expand...

Smalling was only staying if he was first choice and you can't keep swapping the CB next to him, therefore Bailly & Tuanzabe are write offs.
 
bsCallout said:
A proper CDM and GK would help them out ALOT! Imagine Allison behind them winning all the balls into the box and clearing every ball put behind the back line.
Click to expand...

Then we might have as good a defensive record as Liverpool with their 5 less conceded than we have despite playing midfielders and kids at CB all season
 
Ekeke said:
Then we might have as good a defensive record as Liverpool with their 5 less conceded than we have despite playing midfielders and kids at CB all season
Click to expand...

Our CBs are better than their options this season. Add a proper CDM in as well as that GK and we'd be a MUCH better team. 5 goals is no laughing matter either if those 5 goals are the difference between 5 wins and 5 draws.

I could go back over the season and find 5 games we've dropped points because of conceeding one goal thanks to no having a proper GK or CDM.
 
Lindelof is much more confident with the ball when he's not in defence, he plays likes a midfielder thats been converted hastily into a CB. He's not natural at it, and he's made worse by the partnership with Maguire and De Gea's nervous energy behind him.
 
bsCallout said:
Our CBs are better than their options this season. Add a proper CDM in as well as that GK and we'd be a MUCH better team. 5 goals is no laughing matter either if those 5 goals are the difference between 5 wins and 5 draws.

I could go back over the season and find 5 games we've dropped points because of conceeding one goal thanks to no having a proper GK or CDM.
Click to expand...

But they arent. They have performed worse than Liverpool's makeshift backline
 
davidmichael said:
I said this over and over again as even though Smalling has his limitations what he does have is the perfect attributes to compliment Maguire, the best combinations don’t automatically have to be the best players but the best partnership.

What Smalling has is being a very good pure defender who’s quick, great in the air, a threat in the opposition box, always fit to play and experience at the highest levels for both club and country so alongside Maguire would have meant we had someone who’d be able to do what Bailly can do when fit but regularly.

Smalling wouldn’t have needed to be first choice as Bailly when fit could be and as seen Bailly and Maguire look good alongside each other but with Maguire never being injured we could have used Bailly, Smalling and Tuanzebe all alongside Maguire and ALL of them would look better alongside Maguire due to having the attributes and strengths to compliment Maguire whereas Lindelof is not only as slow as Maguire but also extremely weak in the air and extremely weak against strong centre forwards.

The only thing I can think of that makes sense in why Ole persists with Lindelof and Maguire is that both are fit but then with talk of Lindelof having some long standing back injury that keeps flaring up even Lindelof always being fit isn’t a reason anymore.
Click to expand...
Smalling has been injured alot this season.
Whilst I like Smalling as a player, he wanted to go and looking at his performances for Roma, it was probably the right decision.
 
bsCallout said:
Because Liverpool's makeshift backline have proper CDM's and a proper GK. That is the whole point.
Click to expand...

I think in both areas they are better, but their defenders have also clearly played better individually. You could put Lindelof and Maguire in there and they'd perform worse because they've individually performed worse this season. Thats the point
 
Ekeke said:
I think in both areas they are better, but their defenders have also clearly played better individually. You could put Lindelof and Maguire in there and they'd perform worse because they've individually performed worse this season. Thats the point
Click to expand...

They've performed individually worse because they don't have a proper GK or CDM. Rio and Vidic had VDS behind them and either Carrick or Fletcher in front. It makes a huge difference.

I don't actually think they've been individually worse but the even if they had.

Half the problems our CBs are exposed to are snuffed out by a proper CDM or GK.
 
bsCallout said:
They've performed individually worse because they don't have a proper GK or CDM. Rio and Vidic had VDS behind them and either Carrick or Fletcher in front. It makes a huge difference.

I don't actually think they've been individually worse but the even if they had.

Half the problems our CBs are exposed to are snuffed out by a proper CDM or GK.
Click to expand...
I fully agree about GK, but DM is harder to proove. You can't expect one defensive mid to intercept everuthing, so from time to time our CBs will be exposed to race with a strong forward - and they will struggle. Same applies for aerial duels as far as Lindelof is concerned.

BTW you offered to go through goals we've conceded this season to see how many were GK mistakes/ not enough cover in midfield. I'd be interested to see that.
 
Borys said:
I fully agree about GK, but DM is harder to proove. You can't expect one defensive mid to intercept everuthing, so from time to time our CBs will be exposed to race with a strong forward - and they will struggle. Same applies for aerial duels as far as Lindelof is concerned.

BTW you offered to go through goals we've conceded this season to see how many were GK mistakes/ not enough cover in midfield. I'd be interested to see that.
Click to expand...

I will do that and come back to you.

Off the top of my head, SU second goal and Everton first and third goal. All dealt with by a dominant GK. Leicester Barnes goal would likely be prevented by a proper CDM too.

A CDM helps massively in preventing the through balls, preventing runners and finally being able to fill in when a CB is drawn out. The CBs still have lots to do but the CDM closes the gaps and it makes a big difference.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.