Maguire and Lindelof Partnership

Ekeke said:
City's defense has been their problem... :lol:
Click to expand...
Yes tonight they were horrible.

But it is rather obvious that the poor results against the bottom half teams come from not scoring enough goals.

Manchester United didn’t score at all against 3 of the 5 worst teams in the league.
 
CM10 said:
I don't think there's anything special at all about them as a partnership. I'd quite like to see Tuanzebe come in for the Burnley game seeing as we'll need to rotate a few anyway.
Click to expand...
I dont think there's anything particularly special about Axel.
 
A-man said:
Yes tonight they were horrible.

But it is rather obvious that the poor results against the bottom half teams come from not scoring enough goals.

Manchester United didn’t score at all against 3 of the 5 worst teams in the league.
Click to expand...

Again, its both. We had a problem scoring goals, so conceding them lost us points. We invested heavily on the defense we should be able to rely on it, didnt really happen
 
Ekeke said:
Again, its both. We had a problem scoring goals, so conceding them lost us points. We invested heavily on the defense we should be able to rely on it, didnt really happen
Click to expand...
But come on, zero goals against 3 of the 5 worst teams in PL and I wouldn’t put the blame on the defence. What has been a bit special this season is that more goals than normal have come from mistakes and similar. From the last four conceded goal one was an own goal, one a big mistake from the goalkeeper and one a totally unnecessary penalty.

edit: however I agree with your point about the investments. Lots of money invested in AWB and Maguire while not replacing Lukaku and Sanchez.
 
A-man said:
But come on, zero goals against 3 of the 5 worst teams in PL and I wouldn’t put the blame on the defence. What has been a bit special this season is that more goals than normal have come from mistakes and similar. From the last four conceded goal one was an own goal, one a big mistake from the goalkeeper and one a totally unnecessary penalty.

edit: however I agree with your point about the investments. Lots of money invested in AWB and Maguire while not replacing Lukaku and Sanchez.
Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing that its mainly in attack we've struggled its just that a great defense would have been handy in that situation and we'd be in a better position in spite of problems with the attack. Its still the attack holding us back, but the defense could have minimized that issue and it hasnt really happened

And yes, the individual mistakes are also more annoying than normal chances being given away due to the opposition playing well.
 
Ekeke said:
I'm not disagreeing that its mainly in attack we've struggled its just that a great defense would have been handy in that situation and we'd be in a better position in spite of problems with the attack. Its still the attack holding us back, but the defense could have minimized that issue and it hasnt really happened

And yes, the individual mistakes are also more annoying than normal chances being given away due to the opposition playing well.
Click to expand...
Yes an even better defence and there would have been another 5-7 points. A better attack and there world have been another 20 points. The team have talent enough, no doubt, we have seen that against the top teams. It is the execution and tactics that are lacking. I am confident it will turn around soon especially now with Pogba back.
 
I remember so many getting carried away last season with Lindelof. I just didn't rate him and still don't. He's just not physical enough for this league.

We all know what's going to hapt tomorrow night. Wood and Barnes are going to torment him and he will cost us at least one goal.

Smalling not the best on the ball but he's a better defender than Lindelof and miles better in air. We don't need two ball playing cb's. Should be Smalling and Maguire this season with Axel waiting in the wings.
 
A-man said:
Yes tonight they were horrible.

But it is rather obvious that the poor results against the bottom half teams come from not scoring enough goals.

Manchester United didn’t score at all against 3 of the 5 worst teams in the league.
Click to expand...

I'd say, since we've only had 3 clean sheets, it seems the attack has constantly had to bail out the defence in order to pick up points, with it almost never happening the other way round.
 
Well this is as obvious as it gets, they dont complement each other well. Huge lack of pace between them two, we will always be liable to concede stupid goals, plus Lindelof isnt great in the air.
I would feel so much more comfortable with Smalling instead of Lindeloff
 
He'sRaldo said:
I'd say, since we've only had 3 clean sheets, it seems the attack has constantly had to bail out the defence in order to pick up points, with it almost never happening the other way round.
Click to expand...
There have been 19 games so far. In 14 of them United have conceded 1 goal or less. That’s not really a defence failing the team. 8 matches where United have scored more than 1 goal. That’s definitely not an attack bailing out the defence.
 
Feel like it's a partnership that works well when we aren't up against a team that have a tall bruising striker, therefore I am worried about facing Chris Wood tomorrow night who will inevitably give Lindelöf nightmares whilst also knocking it down for his strike partner too.
 
Still preferred dumb and dumber

i-832x447.jpg
 
The argument has been too simplistic IMO. Yes we fail to score goals far too often, which has been a subject in another thread - why we fail to break down bus. Problem at our back is also an issue, but not a simple partnership question. We conceded far too many goals on set piece, which could be due to this partnership, or setup, or a combination of reasons. But too soft on set piece is too obvious to ignore. Our full backs were too slow problem have been addressed, our CB too weak has been partly addressed by Maguire introduction. Is Lindelof still being ball-watching? I don't know, at least I think so on his own goal, why no reaction at all?
 
A-man said:
There have been 19 games so far. In 14 of them United have conceded 1 goal or less. That’s not really a defence failing the team. 8 matches where United have scored more than 1 goal. That’s definitely not an attack bailing out the defence.
Click to expand...

That's exactly it, because the defence has consistently failed to help the attack with clean sheets, when we couldn't score more than one goal. Whereas the attack has the ability to score more than one when the defence concedes.

I'd rather have a match where a few goals are conceded, and then some clean sheets afterwards, than this consistent conceding of at least one goal per match no matter the opponent, with very few clean sheets.
 
He'sRaldo said:
That's exactly it, because the defence has consistently failed to help the attack with clean sheets, when we couldn't score more than one goal. Whereas the attack has the ability to score more than one when the defence concedes.

I'd rather have a match where a few goals are conceded, and then some clean sheets afterwards, than this consistent conceding of at least one goal per match no matter the opponent, with very few clean sheets.
Click to expand...

Ole already talked about it. We have a problem of not defending on counter-attacks well. With weaker teams, when we have most of the possession, and the whole team is up the pitch attacking their bus, a quick counter catches us in almost every game. This is not just a two CBs problem, it's an entire team problem. Would even say - lack of experience problem, expected from a fairly young team.
 
I still think Eric Bailly has a lot to offer in our backline. If he can maintain fitness and get a good stretch of games under his belt we will see the best of him. That being said, I doubt he can avoid injury because of the way he throws his body around. The proverbial double edged sword.
 
He'sRaldo said:
That's exactly it, because the defence has consistently failed to help the attack with clean sheets, when we couldn't score more than one goal. Whereas the attack has the ability to score more than one when the defence concedes.

I'd rather have a match where a few goals are conceded, and then some clean sheets afterwards, than this consistent conceding of at least one goal per match no matter the opponent, with very few clean sheets.
Click to expand...
That’s a weird way to put it. The defence must keep clean sheets otherwise it failed. But if United didn’t even score one single goal against 3 of the 5 worst teams in the PL I would say it was the attack that failed. I clean sheets could have changed that. It was 9 points well needed.
 
Vida_15 said:
I still think Eric Bailly has a lot to offer in our backline. If he can maintain fitness and get a good stretch of games under his belt we will see the best of him. That being said, I doubt he can avoid injury because of the way he throws his body around. The proverbial double edged sword.
Click to expand...

I actually think OGS is a big fan of Bailly so it'll be interesting to see what he'll do with once he's back. On paper an in-form (I know I know) Bailly would appear a much more suited partner to Maguire, but as you say, that'd possible require a brain transplant.
 
It's a bad partnership period. Especially against weaker sides where teams will hit us on the counter attack or hoof balls over the top. Both run scared when attackers run at them, Maguire is slow on the turn and Lindelof is easily bullied off.
A-man said:
That’s a weird way to put it. The defence must keep clean sheets otherwise it failed. But if United didn’t even score one single goal against 3 of the 5 worst teams in the PL I would say it was the attack that failed. I clean sheets could have changed that. It was 9 points well needed.
Click to expand...

When there is no confidence in keeping up a clean sheet, there is that much more pressure to score multiple goals. When you are not comfortable in knowing that your CBs will hoover up anything that comes their way on the counter, you are more reluctant to commit players forward. Think anyone watching us can clearly see that this is not a strong partnership, Lindelof can be targeted, Maguire is nowhere near an imperious defender except for challenging aerially, they just don't compliment each other well.

The idea is great, good ball players that can aid in the ability to play out the back if they were actually first very good at their primary job
 
Let’s just say, they are no way near one of the best partnership in the league, but they are no where near one of the worst either.
 
Shimo said:
When there is no confidence in keeping up a clean sheet, there is that much more pressure to score multiple goals. When you are not comfortable in knowing that your CBs will hoover up anything that comes their way on the counter, you are more reluctant to commit players forward. Think anyone watching us can clearly see that this is not a strong partnership, Lindelof can be targeted, Maguire is nowhere near an imperious defender except for challenging aerially, they just don't compliment each other well.

The idea is great, good ball players that can aid in the ability to play out the back if they were actually first very good at their primary job
Click to expand...


When you push the whole team forward, you will risk counters but you expect to score more goals. When you don’t score even the worst teams in the league can attack on counters.

Liverpool have conceded significantly less goals. Apart from them, United have conceded more or less average for the top clubs.But United have only scored more than one goal in five games out of 19.
 
A-man said:
There have been 19 games so far. In 14 of them United have conceded 1 goal or less. That’s not really a defence failing the team. 8 matches where United have scored more than 1 goal. That’s definitely not an attack bailing out the defence.
Click to expand...
Yeah but how many of those games ended in draws where keeping a clean sheet would have meant a win? When you are not freescoring it becomes essential not to concede especially through stupid mistakes etc. Go back to fergies tenure and have a look at how many 1-0 wins there were.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
I remember so many getting carried away last season with Lindelof. I just didn't rate him and still don't. He's just not physical enough for this league.

We all know what's going to hapt tomorrow night. Wood and Barnes are going to torment him and he will cost us at least one goal.

Smalling not the best on the ball but he's a better defender than Lindelof and miles better in air. We don't need two ball playing cb's. Should be Smalling and Maguire this season with Axel waiting in the wings.
Click to expand...
People always used to say that about Blind. And when it didn't happen, those posters pretended that game never took place, and they rolled onto the next week to say the same thing. Wood and Barnes WILL win headers, they will win headers against every defence in the league, let's see how we deal with that. If we somewhat nullify that thread, will you be here saying mission accomplished?
 
I thought Smalling & Lindelof were a good pair and complimented each other. When Smalling fell out of favour with many of the fans We needed an upgrade. It was decided by the powers that be as well as a large portion of the fans that Maguire was to be the replacement.

Smalling was deemed to be excess and was loaned out, he was never going to be an option, as any mistake he made, would bring a flurry of comments as people had already formed an opinion of him. I will say that I also felt this as Smalling had been here so long.

I felt that we should have gone with the combination of the three Smalling, Lindelof and Maguire, with Bailey & Rojo being sold. We would have Acel as a future option. This did not happen for various reasons.

I would welcome Smalling back at the end of his loan but I think that he will want to go where he is appreciated more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jojojo
A-man said:
When you push the whole team forward, you will risk counters but you expect to score more goals. When you don’t score even the worst teams in the league can attack on counters.

Liverpool have conceded significantly less goals. Apart from them, United have conceded more or less average for the top clubs.But United have only scored more than one goal in five games out of 19.
Click to expand...

You are stuck on the number of goals thing as how good this partnership is. Comes down to watching the actual games and watching Liverpool, they actually look weaker defensively regardless of how few goals they've conceded. The evidence is on the field when watching this partnership, that when push comes to shove there are glaring problems.

As for the worst teams, that is exactly how they are going to play us now and in the future, especially if we intend to become more dominant. Having a back pairing that can't handle that is not a good foundation for going for the future.
 
Edy2 said:
Yeah but how many of those games ended in draws where keeping a clean sheet would have meant a win? When you are not freescoring it becomes essential not to concede especially through stupid mistakes etc. Go back to fergies tenure and have a look at how many 1-0 wins there were.
Click to expand...
It depends on what kind of tactics you have. I am pretty confident United could keep more clean sheets if that was top priority. The five top scoring teams: City, Liverpool, Leicester, Chelsea, and Tottenham- have scored 206 goals together. Against United they only managed to score 3 goals together, in five matches. So I’m pretty confident that this team could keep clean sheets against weaker teams if that was priority. But it’s not.
 
Shimo said:
You are stuck on the number of goals thing as how good this partnership is. Comes down to watching the actual games and watching Liverpool, they actually look weaker defensively regardless of how few goals they've conceded. The evidence is on the field when watching this partnership, that when push comes to shove there are glaring problems.

As for the worst teams, that is exactly how they are going to play us now and in the future, especially if we intend to become more dominant. Having a back pairing that can't handle that is not a good foundation for going for the future.
Click to expand...

The numbers of goals scored and conceded are of course important, as that is what determine which team that win.

Of course the weaker teams will play like that. But as long as United score goals it is not going to be possible, it has only been possible because of the poor scoring.
 
Dunno, i dont like it, its not even based on their each quality, them being rated or not just when i look at it, they dont give me vibe of solid. Maybe my wish to see Axel in there instead is clouding things.
 
ivaldo said:
People always used to say that about Blind. And when it didn't happen, those posters pretended that game never took place, and they rolled onto the next week to say the same thing. Wood and Barnes WILL win headers, they will win headers against every defence in the league, let's see how we deal with that. If we somewhat nullify that thread, will you be here saying mission accomplished?
Click to expand...

The difference is that Blind is quite comfortably a much better all round player than Lindelof will probably ever acomplish in his time here. In terms of ball playing ability, defensive contribution and most importantly, actual influence on the game, Blind in levels ahead.

Criticism of Lindelof's weak physical engagement (defensively) is completely justified and true imo but the real problem is that he doesn't have any other attribute to make up for it.
 
criticalanalysis said:
The difference is that Blind is quite comfortably a much better all round player than Lindelof will probably ever acomplish in his time here. In terms of ball playing ability, defensive contribution and most importantly, actual influence on the game, Blind in levels ahead.

Criticism of Lindelof's weak physical engagement (defensively) is completely justified and true imo but the real problem is that he doesn't have any other attribute to make up for it.
Click to expand...
That first paragraph has nothing to do with what I said whatsoever.
 
Without judging about their partnership or quality a big positive is that both of them can actually stay fit.

What a difference from Bailly, Jones, Rojo, younger Smalling and maybe Tuanzebe.
 
It's going to be quiet in here today. I wonder how many of those telling us Lindelof was going to be bullied by Barnes and Wood will hold their hands up?

ivaldo said:
People always used to say that about Blind. And when it didn't happen, those posters pretended that game never took place, and they rolled onto the next week to say the same thing. Wood and Barnes WILL win headers, they will win headers against every defence in the league, let's see how we deal with that. If we somewhat nullify that thread, will you be here saying mission accomplished?
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.