LvG's bold approach to rebuilding

Hoof the ball

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Finally, a coach with an objective approach to managing this squad. Finally, we're removing players from the squad that should have been removed a long time ago, existing only out of sentimentality or skewed analysis.

Whether you lament the fact that we've sold a youth product (Welbeck), or even the fact that we've spent heavily on those outside (Di Maria & Falcao) the club, it is absolutely undeniable that something needed to be done in order to ensure that this club is to progress and thrive.

The fact is, Louis van Gaal has been brought in to achieve two things in three years :-

1. Establish a framework from the ground up, a vision, philosophy, that would continue in his absence and for the long-term future.

2. Restore United's competitiveness in a ruthless era where teams are generally stronger across the whole league.

In order to accomplish this, we have to come to terms with the fact that although the way Fergie sailed this ship was brilliant, it was something which depended on him to sustain itself.

We're moving to a brand new philosophy, new ideas, with new demands. These new standards are perhaps tough and harsh, but they expose the weaknesses and glorify the strengths of our collective squad. That which cannot adapt must be sacrificed for that which can..............for the sake of the club. Without which, we will lose our standing in this league.

Yes, there has to be a place for youth development, but even youth development must be renovated to produce the kind of players which lend to the philosophy. If they don't fit, they aren't worth investing in. To achieve anything akin to what Barca have achieved, we have to be willing to endure short term difficulties so that the long term is secure.

Sometimes you have to destroy a crumbling house to make way for a sure and stronger foundation. It's tough in the short term, but we need to be completely behind and on-board with what LvG is doing at the moment.
 
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Hoof The Ball said:
Finally, a coach with an objective approach to managing this squad. Finally, we're removing players from the squad that should have been removed a long time ago, existing only out of sentimentality or skewed analysis.

Whether you lament the fact that we've sold a youth product (Welbeck), or even the fact that we've spent heavily on those outside (Di Maria & Falcao) the club, it is absolutely undeniable that something needed to be done in order to ensure that this club to progress and thrive.

The fact is, Louis van Gaal has been brought in to achieve two things in three years :-

1. Establish a framework from the ground up, a vision, philosophy, that would continue in his absence and for the long-term future.

2. Restore United's competitiveness in a ruthless era where teams are generally stronger across the whole league.

In order to accomplish this, we have to come to terms with the fact that although the way Fergie sailed this ship was brilliant, it was something which depended on him to sustain itself.

We're moving to a brand new philosophy, new ideas, with new demands. These new standards are perhaps tough and harsh, but they expose the weaknesses and glorify the strengths of our collective squad. That which cannot adapt must be sacrificed for that which can..............for the sake of the club. Without which, we will lose our standing in this league.

Yes, there has to be a place for youth development, but even youth development must be renovated to produce the kind of players which lend to the philosophy. If they don't fit, they aren't worth investing in. To achieve anything akin to what Barca have achieved, we have to be willing to endure short term difficulties so that the long term is secure.

Sometimes you have to destroy a crumbling house to make way for a sure and stronger foundation. It's tough in the short term, but we need to be completely behind and on-board with what LvG is doing at the moment.
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Thank you! Some sense around here. All the people overreacting on this forum just don't know when to stop.

You said it perfectly. To restore our position to the top without facing a 90's like Liverpudlian reality where we descend into mediocrity, we need to make ruthless decisions. This is what LVG is doing. The first team is all important now. If we can't get the first team to move forward, all the youth products in the world won't save us.
 
In football, to fans, there's only one type of vision and that's short-sightedness.

LVG knows what he's doing. We might have lost Welbeck, which is a shame, but in the future we're going to be so much stronger. Falcao, Di Maria - these are the sort of players that take you to the top. The very top. Welbeck is not that sort of player, he's not a game changer. And he most likely never will be. And once we've reestablished ourselves back in the mix, no doubt we'll begin to see a strong youth presence in the squad. I mean, there's a fairly large youth contingent already in the squad now, at least compared to other big PL clubs.

We're too bogged down by sentimentality, here. Even Barcelona who produce great youth talents, better than most of ours, they're not afraid to let them go when they a) don't fit the team or b) not good enough for the team. We've been too impractical for too long. We've needed to be ruthless with our players. Ruthlessness would have seen Cleverley gone a few years back. It would have seen a new midfield implemented instead of playing a 40-year old Giggs there and a retired Scholes.

We're going to be better for this, much better.
 
Finally a sensible point of view. I totally agree with this.
 
I'm gonna withhold my judgement on a lot of things until the season is over. Ultimately, I don't care how we do it, the highest priority is returning to the club of elite teams in the BPL and in Europe. I will say though that the pressure is on for van Gaal. I don't wanna hear any excuse if we don't make it back to the Champions League after this season because there is none.
 
Agree to this. SAF started with getting rid of the drinking culture at the club. So i would say LvG is building towards the future.
 
I think Sir Alex probably felt like a father to some of the players. So it was difficult to get rid of them. Moyes probably deferred to Sir Alex and continued to keep dead wood. LVG is the objective outsider who did not feel constrained by any such emotions.
 
LVG knew if he did not bring in 6-7 players here, we would of not been in top 4. It is as simple as that. He got the the players in and now will change to a preferred 4-3-3. He knows he might lose his job if we do not get into top 4, he has the money to spend-why not spend it?
 
Another thing that needs to be mentioned as far as youth development goes is that the best way to bleed in the youngsters is while being successful.

Putting Wilson up front in a team that knows what it's doing, is cohesive, and on the back of a winning run is a lot more positive than throwing him on out of desperation in a team that lacks cohesion.

Sort out the first team, then bring the youngsters into it. Don't just throw them in hoping that it will all click together at some point.
 
It's actually positive we've got a two week break for the club to sort out its new equilibrium. No matches, no distractions.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
we have to come to terms with the fact that although the way Fergie sailed this ship was brilliant, it was something which depended on him to sustain itself.
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I agree with everything you said - but honestly this particular statement stands out as being the most important.

It's absolutely correct. Great post.
 
i don't think our business in the transfer market has much to do with LVG personally - i could be wrong
 
I definitely think he's got vision and he knows where he wants to go. A lot of people have described this as an erratic transfer window for us, but I really don't think it is.

He's got vision, but football isn't an exact science and there's loads of elements to factor in. Hopefully it all goes according to plan and Van Gaal can move towards what he wants of the team and the club.
 
Agree with the OP. This summer we did what was necessary IMO. We will continue to bring youngsters through if they're good enough but this injection of quality was required.
 
Dunk said:
It's actually positive we've got a two week break for the club to sort out its new equilibrium. No matches, no distractions.
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international distractions. otherwise agree.
 
Agree with this. You may have a 3 bedroom house, a double bed, a 40 inch tv, a Audi TT and a small garden. But life is better with a 4 bedroom house, a king size bed, a 50 inch tv, a Audi R8.

Incrementally changing everything changes life!

Too much sentiment and trying to stretch the value of a failed signing is definitely what has cost us. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions and act quicker, had we done that with our squad we might be in a better place now.

Many of our players looked obviously like they wouldn't fit or had reached peak, example: Anderson, Hernandez, Cleverley, Evra, Nani, Berbatov, Kagawa. Now we are either giving them away for much less than we could have got, or simply can't sell them. A year earlier on Berbatov, Kagawa, maybe even Cleverley and Evra could have made a substantial income advantage would could have been reinvested at ironically a lower cost, because player inflation has worked against us.

Selling Welbeck and Hernandez now are smart moves. We look set to get £16m and maybe £16-20m respectively. Another season on this might have declined to £10m a piece, as their involvement continues to decline and thus their value declines with less game time only making them appear worse, as they need regular football.

If we had acted last year with Cleverley we might have got £12m, now we risk getting nothing.

Nani again is 2-3 seasons overdue being sold.

What SAF did well earlier in his career at United was to sell players when he felt they were starting to decline, Beckham for example and Stam who he actually regretted selling. Even if you sell too early and could have got more out of a player, chances are you'll get a good fee and be a year ahead in getting a new talent thus reducing player inflation. In hindsight you could argue the turn of events led to us getting Vidic, so even when you get it "wrong" you still can get it right.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Finally, a coach with an objective approach to managing this squad. Finally, we're removing players from the squad that should have been removed a long time ago, existing only out of sentimentality or skewed analysis.

Whether you lament the fact that we've sold a youth product (Welbeck), or even the fact that we've spent heavily on those outside (Di Maria & Falcao) the club, it is absolutely undeniable that something needed to be done in order to ensure that this club is to progress and thrive.

The fact is, Louis van Gaal has been brought in to achieve two things in three years :-

1. Establish a framework from the ground up, a vision, philosophy, that would continue in his absence and for the long-term future.

2. Restore United's competitiveness in a ruthless era where teams are generally stronger across the whole league.

In order to accomplish this, we have to come to terms with the fact that although the way Fergie sailed this ship was brilliant, it was something which depended on him to sustain itself.

We're moving to a brand new philosophy, new ideas, with new demands. These new standards are perhaps tough and harsh, but they expose the weaknesses and glorify the strengths of our collective squad. That which cannot adapt must be sacrificed for that which can..............for the sake of the club. Without which, we will lose our standing in this league.

Yes, there has to be a place for youth development, but even youth development must be renovated to produce the kind of players which lend to the philosophy. If they don't fit, they aren't worth investing in. To achieve anything akin to what Barca have achieved, we have to be willing to endure short term difficulties so that the long term is secure.

Sometimes you have to destroy a crumbling house to make way for a sure and stronger foundation. It's tough in the short term, but we need to be completely behind and on-board with what LvG is doing at the moment.
Click to expand...

Excellent! Bang on.
 
Whether it works or not THIS season, i do think its the right way when you are in our position. We really needed someone to come in and get rid of a lot of the shite in the squad while also having the balls to try and bring in top class replacements.
My only problem with it is that IMO there were a lot more players that should of gone before Welbeck and also that LVG didn't IMO strengthen the centre midfield and defence enough. If the Glazers are happy with another year of transition then thats fine with me but if they expect top 4 THIS season then we could be in trouble.
 
I love how ruthless he's being; we're talking about very pampered and well looked after people here and Van Gaal is putting the axe to the deadwood. Long overdue and what we were all asking for. I am certainly on Van Gaal's side.Can't wait to see the way he's going to have us playing in a few month.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
I love how ruthless he's being; we're talking about very pampered and well looked after people here and Van Gaal is putting the axe to the deadwood. Long overdue and what we were all asking for. I am certainly on Van Gaal's side.Can't wait to see the way he's going to have us playing in a few month.
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Yup. Good stuff OP, I can't say I disagree with any of it.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Finally, a coach with an objective approach to managing this squad. Finally, we're removing players from the squad that should have been removed a long time ago, existing only out of sentimentality or skewed analysis.

Whether you lament the fact that we've sold a youth product (Welbeck), or even the fact that we've spent heavily on those outside (Di Maria & Falcao) the club, it is absolutely undeniable that something needed to be done in order to ensure that this club is to progress and thrive.

The fact is, Louis van Gaal has been brought in to achieve two things in three years :-

1. Establish a framework from the ground up, a vision, philosophy, that would continue in his absence and for the long-term future.

2. Restore United's competitiveness in a ruthless era where teams are generally stronger across the whole league.

In order to accomplish this, we have to come to terms with the fact that although the way Fergie sailed this ship was brilliant, it was something which depended on him to sustain itself.

We're moving to a brand new philosophy, new ideas, with new demands. These new standards are perhaps tough and harsh, but they expose the weaknesses and glorify the strengths of our collective squad. That which cannot adapt must be sacrificed for that which can..............for the sake of the club. Without which, we will lose our standing in this league.

Yes, there has to be a place for youth development, but even youth development must be renovated to produce the kind of players which lend to the philosophy. If they don't fit, they aren't worth investing in. To achieve anything akin to what Barca have achieved, we have to be willing to endure short term difficulties so that the long term is secure.

Sometimes you have to destroy a crumbling house to make way for a sure and stronger foundation. It's tough in the short term, but we need to be completely behind and on-board with what LvG is doing at the moment.
Click to expand...

Absolutely bang on. Enough of investing our time on players who are never going to be at the level we need. Lets try out the next batch of youth players and see if they're up to it instead of endless loans out. Bring on the cull.. next step is the actual first team squad, so much deadwood to get rid of.
 
Good OP.

It's certainly been quite the revolution, hasn't it? Plus he might have done more had he been here the full summer.

Also means we're lodged right in the middle of a period of massive transition though. That should be remembered as we inevitably struggle to adapt in the coming months.

Still, at least there's a sense of forward momentum now. Hopefully that will translate onto the pitch sooner rather than later.
 
We still have Young, Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher and Valencia on the books. Plenty of deadwood left.
 
Orton said:
We still have Young, Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher and Valencia on the books. Plenty of deadwood left.
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Fixed. Hopefully his loan move to AV will be ratified by the Premier League. :)

To be fair to LvG, he's given the above named players plenty of opportunities to prove themselves for a place in the squad.

I'm not expecting them to get many games this season following our recent acquisitions.
 
Irrational. said:
Fixed. Hopefully his loan move to AV will be ratified by the Premier League. :)

To be fair to LvG, he's given the above named players plenty of opportunities to prove themselves for a place in the squad.

I'm not expecting them to get many games this season following our recent acquisitions.
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He's actually leaving? Ive been busy all morning so never caught that. I take back what I said about him in the Welbeck thread then, if he goes.
 
Orton said:
We still have Young, Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher and Valencia on the books. Plenty of deadwood left.
Click to expand...
To be fair I think Cleverley, Anderson and Young all have just a year left on their contracts, so they'll be gone within the next 12 months.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Finally, a coach with an objective approach to managing this squad. Finally, we're removing players from the squad that should have been removed a long time ago, existing only out of sentimentality or skewed analysis.

Whether you lament the fact that we've sold a youth product (Welbeck), or even the fact that we've spent heavily on those outside (Di Maria & Falcao) the club, it is absolutely undeniable that something needed to be done in order to ensure that this club is to progress and thrive.

The fact is, Louis van Gaal has been brought in to achieve two things in three years :-

1. Establish a framework from the ground up, a vision, philosophy, that would continue in his absence and for the long-term future.

2. Restore United's competitiveness in a ruthless era where teams are generally stronger across the whole league.

In order to accomplish this, we have to come to terms with the fact that although the way Fergie sailed this ship was brilliant, it was something which depended on him to sustain itself.

We're moving to a brand new philosophy, new ideas, with new demands. These new standards are perhaps tough and harsh, but they expose the weaknesses and glorify the strengths of our collective squad. That which cannot adapt must be sacrificed for that which can..............for the sake of the club. Without which, we will lose our standing in this league.

Yes, there has to be a place for youth development, but even youth development must be renovated to produce the kind of players which lend to the philosophy. If they don't fit, they aren't worth investing in. To achieve anything akin to what Barca have achieved, we have to be willing to endure short term difficulties so that the long term is secure.

Sometimes you have to destroy a crumbling house to make way for a sure and stronger foundation. It's tough in the short term, but we need to be completely behind and on-board with what LvG is doing at the moment.
Click to expand...

I will start calling him bold and objective when I see him leave a Rooney or Persie on the bench for the good of the team.

Very easy to pick on the likes of Welbeck.
 
Change is all well and good, but we can't judge it for its own sake. The club has spent massively this summer without, many would say, directly addressing the most pressing issues in the squad. It's a huge gamble to get back in the top four this season. We'll see if it works.
 
Good OP
Sometimes its hard to move on, thankfully we have a manager who is going to do it his way.
 
Very good OP.

If people are getting upset over some of the departures in this window (of players who have on the whole underperformed for quite a while), I can only imagine the Caf meltdown there would have been back in 95 when Fergie got rid of three star players from the most successful United team for 25 years. Or when two genuine heroes like McGrath and Whiteside were kicked out.

The squad has become infused with mediocrity over the last 5 years, and while not everything can be fixed in one window, this is a very good step in the right direction.
 
Cheers to that, @Hoof The Ball - If I could give you a like or whatever for that post, I most certainly would. This is what we needed post SAF, and thankfully we have a man who's willing to do the deed at the helm now.
 
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