LV Monopoly Draft: R1 - Pat vs 3Amigos

With players at peak, who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    22
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Edgar Allan Pillow

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BLRTGGRHH-formation-tactics.png
vs
3-Amigos-formation-tactics.png


.................................... TEAM PAT MUSTARD ............................................................................. TEAM 3AMIGOS .........................................


Team Pat Mustard:

We’re looking to take the game to our opponents here, so we’ll start with a moderately high defensive line. Our Figueroa-led back line has the pace and nous to pull it off, and Alaba and Blankenburg have ample pedigree in high-line setups. Of course we’ll drop back if we’re under the cosh and we’re well capable of hurting the opposition on the counter, but the general game plan is to play on the front foot. We’ll be compact horizontally too - we expect the opposition to field wide attackers who generally look to cut infield rather than attack the byline, and our defence can be expected to dominate any aerial exchanges, so we’ll shepherd the opposition play into wide areas where possible.

If we’re looking to compress the space defensively, the opposite holds true in offence, where we have the quality to stretch The Amigo’s defence across the entire width of the pitch. I’ll not lie – when you sport two all-time great wingers the last pair of full backs you want to see on the oppo teamsheet are fecking Djalma and Maldini. That said, Dzajic and Johnstone are too good to shut out completely, and their crosses will have the inviting target of Uwe Seeler, who was absolutely deadly in the air and should have the beating of their CBs at times. Cut backs will be a huge weapon for us also, with Matthaus, Falcao, Rivaldo and Dzajic all packing a lethal punch with their long and middle-distance shooting. Our wingers will open up space for our central axis too; Matthaus and Falcao are one of the best midfield pairings imaginable, and Rivaldo will thrive between the lines here, particularly with Seeler’s superlative back to goal play to work off.

A word on the formation itself: whilst 4-4-2 variants have enjoyed a resurgence lately, questions will invariably be asked as to whether there’s enough bodies in the middle of the pitch. Notwithstanding the fact that Matthaus and Falcao are a fearsome duo in their own right, we have plenty of other situational options: Rivaldo will obviously be dropping into the hole, Alaba has demonstrated a knack for joining the midfield and attacking the left channel rather than sticking to the traditional overlapping full back brief, and in the absence of a specialist No. 9. to deal with I expect Blankenburg to be able to step into midfield with some regularity as well.


Team 3Amigos (Red Tiger, Sjor Bepo, Marty1968)

Key point: Maldini and Djalma play a fairly conservative game, keeping track of Mustard's exceptionally tricky wingers. Maldini might try to involve himself offensively to some degree, however, with Robson covering for him at such times – but it should be stressed that the Italian can't and won't bomb forward wildly here.

Other points: Younger version of Stielike. With Robson he forms a central midfield duo whose main function is to make sure the balance is there or thereabouts, what with the very offensive nature of what is essentially an attacking quartet further up the pitch.

Wide men: Rep is more of a true winger, relatively speaking (he is instructed to play a more traditional winger role here, stretching the play, making himself available as a wide option), Stoichkov's role is freer, less defined (it's his normal role, one could simply say).
 
Blankenburg - Figueroa seems like an odd fit to be fair, although the latter is probably good enough to make a working partnership with any center back.

Dzajic and Johnstone against Djalma and Maldini - brilliant!

KH Förster and Nadal make a pretty complimentary duo, actually, although there need to be an instant chemistry between them. Nadal is great at preventing aerial threat and Förster's intelligence will allow for him to cover his partner against tricky Pat's front two. Stielike will help out too, surely. Even though it can work on paper, the interplay between Seeler and Rivaldo (and maybe one of the midfielders) is still the most likeliest route to goal for Pat.

Stoichkov-Eusebio-Rep-Cubillas (and maybe Robson) will be deadly on the counter.
 
Will there be any overlaps between Dzagic and Rivaldo? Rivaldo might tend to operate more centrally with Dzagic overlapping on the left?

And Eusebio as CF? His best was a free role (to the left) behind a CF imo.
Dzajic is pretty much your perfect orthodox winger. He scored loads of goals as he tend to pop up in the box just in the right moment but he didn't spend much time cutting inside. I think that positionally he gels well with Rivaldo. There maybe slight concern behind him, Rivaldo and Johnstone being too greedy on the ball - Johnstone had Lennox on the left, Dzajic also had more simple players on the right (no one worth of notice though).

Eusebio actually can drop deeper with Rep and Stoichkov cutting inside on a constant basis, especially Rep can play this tactical distraction figure as he can't compete with Eusebio or Stoichkov on the ball. Cubillas as a #10 will limit Eusebio's space though
 
Cubillas as a #10 will limit Eusebio's space though

Yeah. From what I've watched, Eusebio tends to drop back pick up balls deeper and run at the defence. Not really sure how effective he will be playing target for the other.

Maybe Thomas Muller in a False 9 role might have been better to pair with Cubillas.
Stoichkov....Muller....Eusebio will be nice.
 
Dzajic is pretty much your perfect orthodox winger. He scored loads of goals as he tend to pop up in the box just in the right moment but he didn't spend much time cutting inside. I think that positionally he gels well with Rivaldo. There maybe slight concern behind him, Rivaldo and Johnstone being too greedy on the ball - Johnstone had Lennox on the left, Dzajic also had more simple players on the right (no one worth of notice though).

Eusebio actually can drop deeper with Rep and Stoichkov cutting inside on a constant basis, especially Rep can play this tactical distraction figure as he can't compete with Eusebio or Stoichkov on the ball. Cubillas as a #10 will limit Eusebio's space though

I think Eusebio with Stoichkov will work very well complimented with Rep on the wing. Probably a Suarez type forward with Eusebio in a bit deeper position would be better, but I can see them working as a front four.

The two teams are well matched IMO and it should be a close one. Nadal I've never rated but on paper seems a better fit in terms of CB pair. Pat has edge in midfield, Maldini/Djalma in balanced roles are great fit and give the three amigos the better defence overall while the attacks are probably pretty similar in quality. Marginally like the three amigos one more as they have Eusebio who is the best on the pitch that would probably give a slight edge.
 
Yeah. From what I've watched, Eusebio tends to drop back pick up balls deeper and run at the defence. Not really sure how effective he will be playing target for the other.

Maybe Thomas Muller in a False 9 role might have been better to pair with Cubillas.
Stoichkov....Muller....Eusebio will be nice.
Similarly to Puskas both work better with a more advanced forward or a false nine I agree. Although given their goalscoring record and abilities I don't think they won't be able to play the false 9 themselves.
 
Maybe Thomas Muller in a False 9 role might have been better to pair with Cubillas.

I think you'd get much of the same problem with that - but less of the undoubted attacking prowess.

The problem is obvious: Cubillas pushing forward, as he will do, makes it likely that he will occupy too much of the space Eusebio naturally operates in. Having someone there you stick a "false nine" label on won't fix that.

Eusebio isn't a #10, though - he's some kind of 9.5. Whereas Cubillas can be sold as an attacking midfielder more than a second striker - so while the problem is there, it isn't necessarily hugely detrimental. Eusebio is the main finisher - Cubillas is more akin to the (central) playmaker in this particular setup. It's not ideal, but it shouldn't be a clusterfeck either. You don't get 100% out of both players, but you get a fair share nonetheless.
 
I think Cubillas will have a great game here as there is space behind that midfield.

In my opinion Cubillas and Eusebio would dovetail nicely.
 
I think you'd get much of the same problem with that - but less of the undoubted attacking prowess.

The problem is obvious: Cubillas pushing forward, as he will do, makes it likely that he will occupy too much of the space Eusebio naturally operates in. Having someone there you stick a "false nine" label on won't fix that.

You are right. It was a thought, but doesn't actually contribute positively.
 
as a celtic man i can answer this. one of the greatest wingers ever to play the game, simple
I posted a clip somewhere of Don Elias making him look silly. Good thing they are on the same team then.
 
I think Cubillas will have a great game here as there is space behind that midfield.

In my opinion Cubillas and Eusebio would dovetail nicely.
Agreed, operating roughly in the same space and competing for it are different things.
 
A lot of punch in the 3 Amigos' attack. Think it would work quite well, very direct, but no issues with how it's set up. In the modern game I'd always see Eusebio as a one-man attack capable of being the focal point or a partnership gig.

@Gio

What would say about your fellow citizen in this game? :)
I wouldn't disagree with @DavidG. Then again he is up against Maldini here so he probably won't get lots of joy. But he'll keep him honest. Same for Djalma on the other side. Which leaves Nadal and Forster squaring up to a fearsome Seeler/Rivaldo duo. Steilike can obviously assist, but I would fancy Rivaldo getting something here if he's on his game. Great core Pat's got all in all from the attack through that central midfield pairing and to the back two.
 
Celtic - Penarol 1967?

Probably. One of the better quality footage of Peñarol that exists. It was a friendly but I found Peñarol underwhelming in that encounter, with Celtic being the markedly better side. Tbf though, I don't think I finished watching the match and perhaps Peñarol were better in the 2ND half. Goncalves and Johnstone were pretty impressive if memory serves me right.

 
Probably. One of the better quality footage of Peñarol that exists. It was a friendly but I found Peñarol underwhelming in that encounter, with Celtic being the markedly better side. Tbf though, I don't think I finished watching the match and perhaps Peñarol were better in the 2ND half. Goncalves and Johnstone were pretty impressive if memory serves me right.


Yeah, I remember stumbling upon the clip on youtube sometime earlier but never got to watch it.
 
2 very even teams, on one hand 3 amigos got incredible attack and a very sound defense, but that Matthaus - Falcao midfield form Pat is phenomenal and his attack is right on money and IMO works better than their opposition.

Its too even for me and I am gonna use goalkeeper as the deciding factor here. Oblak IMO is the weakest player on the pitch and is against the likes of Eusebio, Cubillas and Stoichkov. This could be the slight edge that could tilt this very even game in 3 amigos favor.
 
Probably. One of the better quality footage of Peñarol that exists. It was a friendly but I found Peñarol underwhelming in that encounter, with Celtic being the markedly better side. Tbf though, I don't think I finished watching the match and perhaps Peñarol were better in the 2ND half. Goncalves and Johnstone were pretty impressive if memory serves me right.



Yups, from one of those games (I think there were two, if not three). Peñarol was past its peak though, the likes of Figueroa prevented the drop being more pronounced, but it was clear as daylight.
 
2 good sides here. Pat's midfield is just phenomenal and I think the attack is very well balanced, but on first glance it looks to me like the 3 Amigos have the right players in the right positions to negate a lot of Pat's attacking threat, while also looking pretty dangerous on the counter.

Having said that I could see dribbling and movement of Dzajic and Rivaldo causing some problems for Nadal. Still undecided on this one.
 
Could someone share me good read on Stielike, couldn't able to find much on web.
 
Is it just me or would a slightly more defensive player next to Matthaus been better? Both players like to get forward. That maybe be compensated for by the wingers working hard but neither, at least to my knowledge, are grafters out wide.

In regards Eusebio and Cubillas they are too different in style to get on each others toes and with Stoichkov moving central it allows both of them to drop deeper. It's actually a good modern setup for Eusebio although as with EAP I'd normally think of using him in a 433 with wide forwards or as a second-striker in front 2.
 
Could someone share me good read on Stielike, couldn't able to find much on web.

I don't have anything to read but there's a decent (all the touches) video of him playing for Real on YouTube.
 
I don't have anything to read but there's a decent (all the touches) video of him playing for Real on YouTube.
Yeah watched that before but couldn't able to find decent read on him,is he a player similar to Carrick/S.Busquets?
 
Yeah watched that before but couldn't able to find decent read on him,is he a player similar to Carrick/S.Busquets?

Well, he was superior to both of them when it comes to the purely defensive side his game – that's one obvious difference.

But as a (defensive) midfielder he was tougher than both of those, more of a tackler, more energetic, a ball winner who got involved directly (which doesn't mean his reading of the game was inferior – just a matter of style, plus the era was obviously different, with more rough duels allowed than these days).

Much better defender, worse passer (he was decent, though), less smooth overall. As for ability, I'd rate him above Carrick but below Biscuits in an all-time setting.
 
Well, he was superior to both of them when it comes to the purely defensive side his game – that's one obvious difference.

But as a (defensive) midfielder he was tougher than both of those, more of a tackler, more energetic, a ball winner who got involved directly (which doesn't mean his reading of the game was inferior – just a matter of style, plus the era was obviously different, with more rough duels allowed than these days).

Much better defender, worse passer (he was decent, though), less smooth overall. As for ability, I'd rate him above Carrick but below Biscuits in an all-time setting.
Cheers Chester.
 
Is it just me or would a slightly more defensive player next to Matthaus been better? Both players like to get forward. That maybe be compensated for by the wingers working hard but neither, at least to my knowledge, are grafters out wide.
If you were designing a set-up to maximise Matthaus, then yes you'd have someone who could anchor to fully liberate him bursting forward. But he was world class in any central midfield gig really - man-marking Maradona, holding the midfield, pushing forward in a three. If you look at his career zenith - Italia '90 - he played in a midfield three in a 3-5-2. But there were a range of roles within that. His standout performances from that tournament were alongside a disciplined player like Olaf Thon or Guido Buchwald, but in the final Beckenbauer deployed him alongside Pierre Littbarski and Thomas Hassler. As much as they were hard-working and well-rounded attacking midfielders, he clearly had a lot of defensive burden there with a duty to keep tabs on Maradona. Irrespective of the assignment his attacking contribution was typically such that you'd often mistake him for having a free role in front of a midfield four.

The partnership with Falcao is brilliantly well rounded. Much like Joga and Mazhar's Rijkaard/Schweinsteiger, but ramped up another notch, and very likely to boss anything they come up against.
 
If you were designing a set-up to maximise Matthaus, then yes you'd have someone who could anchor to fully liberate him bursting forward. But he was world class in any central midfield gig really - man-marking Maradona, holding the midfield, pushing forward in a three. If you look at his career zenith - Italia '90 - he played in a midfield three in a 3-5-2. But there were a range of roles within that. His standout performances from that tournament were alongside a disciplined player like Olaf Thon or Guido Buchwald, but in the final Beckenbauer deployed him alongside Pierre Littbarski and Thomas Hassler. As much as they were hard-working and well-rounded attacking midfielders, he clearly had a lot of defensive burden there with a duty to keep tabs on Maradona. Irrespective of the assignment his attacking contribution was typically such that you'd often mistake him for having a free role in front of a midfield four.

The partnership with Falcao is brilliantly well rounded. Much like Joga and Mazhar's Rijkaard/Schweinsteiger, but ramped up another notch, and very likely to boss anything they come up against.

While I agree they are formidable all-rounders, it's just them two.

I assumed that straight away, but the more I look at this the more graft I see in the 3 Amigos side. Robbo/Stielike has a more evident balance to it and every single player in their front 4 will work harder and drop deep to get stuck in if needed.

There's real scope for the 3 Amigos to play around those two, bypass them, and have a tighter grip on the game. The more I think of it, they'll have more control and possession and Pat has a better setup to counterattack.

All that is the complete opposite of what both managers state in the op. :lol:
 
There's real scope for the 3 Amigos to play around those two, bypass them, and have a tighter grip on the game. The more I think of it, they'll have more control and possession and Pat has a better setup to counterattack.
Yup, that's what I think as well, and that's what makes it so close for me. I really cannot decide between the two sides. I may have to not vote in this match simply because voting for one will be unjust to the other team.

The one thing that stands out to me is the 3-Amigos' central defensive partnership. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I really think Seeler and Rivaldo can cause problems for Förster and Nadal. Specifically, I don't like the fact that Förster is on the left side as he is much better on the right side, and Nadal sticks out as a potential weak point there, able to be pulled out of position by Rivaldo. The good thing here for both central is that they have amazing full backs who can provide cover for weaker central defenders, particularly Djalma Santos.
 
All that is the complete opposite of what both managers state in the op.

There's no mention of it in the OP, so I don't quite see that.

I don't know how the amigos themselves originally regarded it, but to my thinking it's not an obvious setup in either direction (possession/counter). Could play out in various ways. They're well set to hit Mustard on the counter, I think, but they wouldn't necessarily be seeking actively to do so, as a dedicated tactic, if you will.

If I had to characterize the XI as such, I'd perhaps label it combative - plenty of fighters in the team, whose natural inclination won't be to sit back and be overly cagey - but then again this doesn't really amount to any set strategy as far as possession and the like is concerned.
 
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Yup, that's what I think as well, and that's what makes it so close for me. I really cannot decide between the two sides. I may have to not vote in this match simply because voting for one will be unjust to the other team.

The one thing that stands out to me is the 3-Amigos' central defensive partnership. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I really think Seeler and Rivaldo can cause problems for Förster and Nadal. Specifically, I don't like the fact that Förster is on the left side as he is much better on the right side, and Nadal sticks out as a potential weak point there, able to be pulled out of position by Rivaldo. The good thing here for both central is that they have amazing full backs who can provide cover for weaker central defenders, particularly Djalma Santos.

I don't see the issue with Forster on the left. In fact, I'd have him down as one of those proven to work well at LCB (while I don't get why Paul McGrath keeps getting started there).

Rivaldo and Seeler obviously can cause them problems and Nadal+Forster isn't the most natural fit to deal with that. Different from other cases though, the fullbacks here are better defenders than their respective CB, they can be trusted to shut out their wingers, but will that leave room for them to also help out and organise the Two Amigos in central defence? Don't think so.