LV Monopoly draft - QF1: Pat vs Skizzahnomoss

With players at Peak, who will win the match?


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Edgar Allan Pillow

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.......................................... TEAM PAT ................................................................................................................ TEAM SKIZZAHNOMOSS ......................................................


TEAM PAT


Formation: 4-4-1-1
Style of Play: Counter-attacking.

Same formation as last time, but a change in tactics. We shift from a high defensive line to a fairly deep line to mitigate against the threat of Maradona, and we look to break swiftly on the counter when we regain possession.

Rinat Dasayev and Paolo Maldini bolster the defence, with Dasayev/Maldini/Figueroa/Matthaus forming a rock solid central axis. Patrice Evra gets the nod over Alaba at left back. A key player in Utd’s greatest ever defence, Evra has excelled in this sort of counter-attacking set up in countless CL away games for us. His strength in one on one situations and his brilliant ball-carrying in transition makes him the right man for the job here. Matthaus’ ball-winning and barnstorming surges forward will be crucial to the success of our counter-attacking strategy, and in Falcao he has an ideal partner.

Uwe Seeler has attracted some discussion in the main thread courtesy of his inclusion in Anto’s shadow-wanking XI, and I’m one of the small but devoted band of acolytes who view him as one of the all-time great centre forwards. A first-rate goalscorer and supreme aerial threat with great link-up play, he has an excellent real-life record against Beckenbauer and Schwarzenbeck, scoring 4 times in 7 matches against the pair between 1965/66 and 1968/69 near the tail-end of his career. Flanked by two of the great wingers in Dzajic and Johnstone, and with an abundance of creativity behind him, he’s well-placed to do damage here. A final point worth mentioning is our threat from distance – Dzajic, Matthaus, Falcao and Rivaldo are all lethal from middle to long range, and they’ll look to put Courtois, probably the least-credentialed and weakest player on the pitch, to the test frequently.

TEAM SKIZZAHNOMOSS

Defense
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The defense and spine of the team is inspired by Beckenbaurs and Schwarzenbecks iconic West Germany side The steel of Schwarzenbeck and Vogts provided the defensive cover which let Breitner operate as a free roaming playmaking left back which suits the way Lahm would play the position as well. Alternating between making overlapping runs and drifting inside to provide a passing option while causing confusion for the defending team.

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In Vogts role we have Bergomi who also thrived in a defensive right back role and there aren't many like-for-like replacements for Vogts in terms of style and genuine star quality but Bergomi is one of them. After watching Vogts and comparing him against Bergomi for this particular role I think Bergomi is an upgrade while Vogts had to give away some of his greatness in comparison to his club form to free up Beckenbauer and Breitner for their offensive raids.

Beckenbauer and Schwarzenbeck won everything together and they formed one of the best centre back partnerships in history. It is difficult to find the right defensive setup and player to partner Beckenbauer but Schwarzenbeck did so perfectly. One of the players who impressed me the most from that vintage German side was Schwarzenbeck who was an all time great in his own rights and managed to sweep up after both Beckenbauer and Breitner thanks to his geniune defensive greatness. He was more composed than Vogts(who isn't at his best there) in the role and he provided everything your typical stopper would. Great aerial ability, strength and a no nonsense mentality to complement the artists around him.
German football in the 1970s stood for straight-forward, well-organised, disciplined football. The one player who embodied this more than anyone was Schwarzenbeck. Deployed as a centre-half, Schwarzenbeck acted as a vacuum cleaner for Beckenbauer, taking care of the dirty work while others shone in the limelight. Labelled by Kicker magazine as "the most modest international Germany ever had", his work ethic gave balance to a team that otherwise leaned towards technical quality.
Midfield
The Battle of Münich, the treacherous Matthäus left Bayern in the middle of his prime and is back for his first match at his old home soil. Awaiting him is his old team, his mentor and now worst enemy, Beckenbauer. Who had the following to say during the interview when asked what he thought of Matthäus joining Patnazionale:
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While the team lost Matthäus they used the winter transfer window to pick up Diego Maradona. Who will spearhead this central midfield as a number 10. Neeskens and Netto are an incredible pairing - both comfortable in whatever position Beckenbauer decides to take whether it is to form a flat 4-3-3 where Neeskens and Netto are at home with their experience or if one or both have to play conservative as Beckenbauer is making a marauding run to the box.

There will always be one of the three making a direct explosive run towards the box when opportunity arises.

With such an even midfield three in Neeskens, Netto, Maradona against Matthäus, Falcao and Rivaldo - Beckenbauer will have the match winning impact that has him rated the third best player in history.

Offense
With Maradona in the team we're guaranteed creativity, playmaking and goals as long as we can stretch the pitch and provide the runs he needs. Therefore we're not using the hybrid playmaker/winger version of Giggs - and instead sport the electric welsh Wizard of the early 90's where he was also a goalscoring threat scoring up to 17 goals in one season.

Giggs With Lahm working together in tandem, cutting in when Giggs needs him there, overlapping when Giggs wants to cut in himself.

On the other wing we have Julinho, the third best Brazilian right winger of all time and one of the best right wingers overall. The man made it a job to dominate a flank on his own and provide width and even created a lot of goals from that side with 101 goals in 191 games for Palmeiras and 13 in 31 for Brazil.

After playing fine in English best of all time and become a holy being wearing the shirt of Fiorentina-ITA, that impish, technical and sublime tip-right was back to Brazil missed its land and its people. But in 1959, that same people decided booing him before a game against the Brazilian National Team England squad at the Maracana, months after the canary team have won their first World Cup title. The more than 130,000 people wanted to see Garrincha, the tip-right champion Sweden and absolute owner. No one wanted to see that citizen thin mustache, fine features and slender. But on the way up to the lawn, Mané substitute decided to end that audacity against his football in a few minutes.

More precisely three, until the moment when José Ribamar de Oliveira dominated on the left, he played for Henry and this left the man jeered dominate and send the ball into the goal. Minutes later, he built the play of the second goal. Following, dribbled English with the ease that only he had and turned the faces of anger and envy in smiles. At the end of the match two minutes of applause to bury the two hoots. The Maracana was apologizing for the crime. And the man who made the day May 13, 1959 the foundation stone of his legend, thanked him and smiled. Júlio Botelho, known as Julinho Botelho wrote this and many other fantastic stories with an absolute beauty football and had always been the purest essence of the victorious Brazilian football once: fed up dribbling, speed, insinuating plays, devastating kicks and passes tasteful
He'll stretch the pitch perfectly for us while he is more than dangerous enough in his free defensive role to punish offensive plays from the opponents full backs. Julinho is a great player to face Maldini, his crossing is excellent and he doesn't have to cut his way in to the box if Maldini is in position but can rather curl a cross in or just find Leonidas/Maradona running in to space inside or around the box.
When Maldini is pushing forward Julinho will be ruthless in a free role defensively just looking to punish them and I would not be surprised to see him be the match winner at the end of the day.



Playing at inside- or centre-forward, Leonidas was a magician who possessed all of the great virtues. He had speed, excellent technique and an incomparable elasticity. "He was as fast as a greyhound, as agile as a cat, and seemed not to be made of flesh and bones at all, but entirely of rubber. He was tireless in pursuit of the ball, fearless, and constantly on the move. He never conceded defeat. He shot from any angle and any position, and compensated for his small height with exceptionally supple, unbelievable contortions, and impossible acrobatics." In 1938, the French media compared Leonidas to a circus freak, a rubber man with 6 legs.

The second son of Samba, after a certain Friedenreich, the Black Diamond/The Rubber man was voted as the 8th best Brazilian player of the 20th century by IFFHS - a point ahead of both Nilton Santos and Ronaldo. An odd inclusion some would say but when the Brazilans themselves choose their legends he is common sense. Both Folha de São Paolo and Placar Magazine[1997] included him in their first eleven when they collected an all-time Brazil team. His phenomenal goalscoring of a goal per game over a 13 year period, both for the National team and for his different club sides highlight his efficiency.

He won 8 times the stated championship was named Best player in the 1938 , 1940 , 1943 , 1945 , 1946 , 1948 and the 1949 Championships. His most memorable moments came at the 1938 World Cup where Leonidas showed phenomenal class being the top scorer with 7 goals and until 2010 the only MVP not being in one of the finalist teams, where the legends Sarosi and Meazza clashed together.

His most memorable moments came at the 1938 World Cup where Leonidas showed phenomenal class being the top scorer with 7 goals and until 2010 the only MVP not being in one of the finalist teams.

In Placar's "100 Craques do Século", rating the 100 greatest players in the history, Leonidas is ranked as a mighty respectable number 28.

When the Guerin Sportivo[Italy] published their list "I 50 Grandi del Secolo by Adalberto Bortolotti" Leonidas was placed even further up at place 26.

The words of Diego Lucero, an eye-witness, give portrait of Da Silvas character and breakthrough performance that is more precise than any. "As a player he was simply phenomenal. A classy yet effective dribbler, he cut through the enemy defense like lightning, and he shot at the enemy goal with the precision and power of a born goal-scorer. Leonidas, according to Nelson Rodriquez, epitomized the Brazilian player "He had imagination, mischievousness and the sensuality of a crack(star player).

The things Leonidas did in that first half of that historic game against Poland on July 5 in Strasbourg can be ranked among the most beautiful and brilliant plays in soccer history - artistic, rhythmic plays that carry the secret of soccer magic, and a grace that make the ball speak. Leonidas was a flash of joy and glory that easily danced through the entrenched Polish defense.

In that first half he made three goals, but then a deluge of rain set in, and the Polish managed to transform Brazils lead to a 4-3 lead into their favor. Then, Leonidas, living up to his name became a lion in battle, wreaking havoc in the mud on the players from the sunless land. At one point his foot got stuck in the mud. "The black Diamond" took his foot out of the shoe and kicked the ball with all his might to tie the game. In the end, Brazil won 6-5."
 
midfield and defence of skizzah is insane.....
 
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Interesting match. I was hoping skizzannah would get a chance to pick up Breitner but instead they were able to get Maradona. That has me debating because without Diego I don't see them having enough firepower against Pat's defense. Maradona brings that extra unpredictability that I think is needed on both sides to break down those defenses.
 
I like Pat's flanks better, esp the suitability of the fullbacks.

Personally I've always like Beckenbauer paired off with a defensive minded midfielder ahead of him. Not saying it's mandatory...but a personal opinion. Neeskens is more than capable of running the game himself and so can Netto who is known for his offensive contribution too.
 
Personally I've always like Beckenbauer paired off with a defensive minded midfielder ahead of him. Not saying it's mandatory...but a personal opinion.
I don't think Beckenbauer ever had a purely defensive minded midfielder ahead of him though? It was always some kind of box to box midfield and a very defensive rightback tucking in to cover for him. The set-up with Bergomi as the rightback seems to be the best possible version of this?
 
This is gonna be a 0-0.
Not sure if it ends up 0-0 all the time, but it's certainly a low scoring game with the defenses looking stronger than the attacks and the big game changers most likely coming from the two midfields (Matthäus and Maradona).
 
I don't think Beckenbauer ever had a purely defensive minded midfielder ahead of him though? It was always some kind of box to box midfield and a very defensive rightback tucking in to cover for him. The set-up with Bergomi as the rightback seems to be the best possible version of this?

I was thinking of someone similar to Bonhof.
I'd rather Bergomi provided more width than playing a tucked in role here. He has enough ammunition down the middle already.
 
The words of Diego Lucero, an eye-witness, give portrait of Da Silvas character and breakthrough performance that is more precise than any. "As a player he was simply phenomenal. A classy yet effective dribbler, he cut through the enemy defense like lightning, and he shot at the enemy goal with the precision and power of a born goal-scorer"

Where the hell did you get this from @Skizzo @Annahnomoss?

I find it remarkable he somehow made it to the internet when he died before it became mainstream. Not disputing it, just curious about how he ended up in a Leonidas profile on Redcafe (I've wanted to quote him several times before but, as usual, it would be my say so which can't be proved to those prickly about that).
 
I was thinking of someone similar to Bonhof.
I'd rather Bergomi provided more width than playing a tucked in role here. He has enough ammunition down the middle already.
Isn't Bonhof similar to Neeskens? A box to box midfielder with experience as fullback and wingback who'd often make attacking runs down the right wing to provide width? Difficult to think of a better player to play Bonhof's role than Neeskens.
 
Not really counting on Lahm at right to provide same amount of width as he does left. If Bergomi also plays defensively, it'd be a plethora of players all through the middle to get things working for Skizzo.

The entire German setup was based on letting the left back and Beckenbauer attack freely while two defensive giants stays back like a modern centre back pairing would. Lahm will be playing offensively, interchanging with Giggs between who provides the width and who makes a run towards goal on the inside. Giggs naturally provides plenty of width himself and between the two they'll both get to cut in or provide width. Lahm has an excellent passing game too and a simple but perfect pass to Maradona may very well turn out to be a match winner.
 
Personally I can't see the midfield two being ideal here when Maradona lurks around them, and Falcao would have serious issues against a peak Maradona running at him even from the midfield, and all that while Beckenbauer moves in to the area as well. Johnstone and Dzajic are far from ideal in terms of defending like a right/left midfielder and will instead defend like wingers which is difficult when you already have Rivaldo as your number 10.

Maradona isn't your statical number 10 either, he would find himself 1 vs 1 with Evra and in general be a menace all over the front line. He'd be helping Giggs on the left, Julinho on the right - the man liked staying close to the ball and available for the play.
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Where the hell did you get this from @Skizzo @Annahnomoss?

I find it remarkable he somehow made it to the internet when he died before it became mainstream. Not disputing it, just curious about how he ended up in a Leonidas profile on Redcafe (I've wanted to quote him several times before but, as usual, it would be my say so which can't be proved to those prickly about that).
Goooal: A Celebration Of Soccer
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Well one of them is the toughest opponent Maradona ever faced, in his own words.
The only thing that concerns me, if Matthaus is dealing with Maradona, Pat is left only with Falcao in the middle - Rivaldo/Dzajic/Johnstone won't help him and Seeler's workrate is utilized higher up the pitch
 
The only thing that concerns me, if Matthaus is dealing with Maradona, Pat is left only with Falcao in the middle - Rivaldo/Dzajic/Johnstone won't help him and Seeler's workrate is utilized higher up the pitch

Yup. I don't see Matthäus being able to try to stay close to Maradona here as it would completely tear apart their own system. Instead Matthäus will be a centre midfielder who does his job positionally and Maradona will be moving around to both wings where Johnstone/Dzajic aren't ideal to challenge the full backs in 2 vs 1's with the winger or 1 vs 1 them. Or he will find space behind Matthäus and Falcao or close to Falcao. Just too many solid options for him to get a pass and and start inflicting damage.
 
Goooal: A Celebration Of Soccer
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Ah... quoted in a book. Diego Lucero is the pseudonym of the reporter I've mentioned before, the one going to all World Cups up to 1990. He was exclusively a newspaper sports columnist and died in the early 90s so I was surprised you could get any of his material online.
 
Ah... quoted in a book. Diego Lucero is the pseudonym of the reporter I've mentioned before, the one going to all World Cups up to 1990. He was exclusively a newspaper sports columnist and died in the early 90s so I was surprised you could get any of his material online.
:D You should share some of his quotes!
 
The only thing that concerns me, if Matthaus is dealing with Maradona, Pat is left only with Falcao in the middle - Rivaldo/Dzajic/Johnstone won't help him and Seeler's workrate is utilized higher up the pitch

He is sitting deep, soaking and hitting on the break. There's no one individual player getting dragged around by Maradona. That would be a rather pointless effort if I may add, peak Maradona wasn't a player you could just stick someone on. You would have to trust the defensive unit to keep it tight (I do) and when they fail to prevent danger that the keeper will respond (and I trust Dasayev to do it).

@Pat_Mustard makes a very valid point re: Courtois, in such a finely balanced game he would very likely end up being the difference that separates the two teams.
 
Ah... quoted in a book. Diego Lucero is the pseudonym of the reporter I've mentioned before, the one going to all World Cups up to 1990. He was exclusively a newspaper sports columnist and died in the early 90s so I was surprised you could get any of his material online.
The one who you mentioned during the chain draft(?) ?
 
He is sitting deep, soaking and hitting on the break. There's no one individual player getting dragged around by Maradona. That would be a rather pointless effort if I may add, peak Maradona wasn't a player you could just stick someone on. You would have to trust the defensive unit to keep it tight (I do) and when they fail to prevent danger that the keeper will respond (and I trust Dasayev to do it).
Pretty much this. Between Matthaus, Maldini and Figueroa the threat of the opposition front two is rather well mitigated.

Courtois, in such a finely balanced game he would very likely end up being the difference that separates the two teams.
And this. First thing that stuck out to me and probably what might end up deciding the match-up. He's some way off in matching the Iron Curtain.
 
:D You should share some of his quotes!

Hard work man, didn't even do it for Zmuda :p... I have a "History of the World Cup" he published before Italia 90 and the add-on published after it. It sort of brings together all his columns pre/during/post World Cup and reads like a chronicle with no hindsight/historical perspective/revisionism. Very enjoyable read but in newspaper print so I have to handle it with great care.

I just checked, he actually made it to 14 consecutive World Cups inc. USA (which he never wrote as he died a few months later). Seems I had it the wrong way around, I thought it was soon after Italy, not USA. I had already left Uruguay then so it's all a bit of a mish mash.
 
First of all, good luck @Pat_Mustard no handbags here :lol:

As far as Courtois, I can understand why he's being looked at through more of a microscope, but that's ignoring the ridiculous talent he's shown so far in his young career.

Courtois oozes calmness and his defenders know they can trust him 100 per cent to make the right decisions. Furthermore, every time the ball is crossed into the box, Courtois - thanks to his 6ft 6in frame - alleviates the pressure off his defence by simply catching the ball.

There is not a goalkeeper on the planet who catches the ball as well as Courtois. This may sound like a basic attribute, but so many keepers opt to punch these days that it’s become a dying art.

What is so good about Courtois? Well, for a start, he's absolutely huge. Most goalkeepers are big, but at 1.99 metres (6-foot-6) the Chelsea man towers over his rivals. He has six, seven and 11 centimetres over Neuer, David de Gea and Hugo Lloris, respectively, and if this seems a peculiar place to start, remember that goalkeeping is a profession in which "fingertip saves" are commonplace. Never mind the fingertips; Courtois' advantage over his major rivals is essentially equivalent to extra fingers.

Courtois is "tall" rather than "big," however. There's a difference: Edwin van der Sar was tall; his successor at Juventus, Gigi Buffon, is big, and it's no surprise that Courtois admires the Dutchman. "I'd watch Edwin van der Sar, and try and steal things with my eyes from how he played," he told the Guardian earlier this season. "Because he wasn't all muscles and was a similar build to me."

This extra height helps in two major situations: when it comes to shot-stopping, and taking crosses. Shot-stopping is a goalkeeper's bread and butter, although for the top teams, sometimes there's only one save per game to make. Nevertheless, Courtois has stupendous reactions, to the extent that "Thibuating," an internet meme involving outstretched, diving poses, went viral last year. It was perfect for the Instagram generation, but Courtois isn't one to make saves look spectacular for the cameras.

The latter quality, collecting crosses, has become underrated in recent years, because so many big, fashionable teams play with a high defensive line, and goalkeepers are therefore dealing with one-on-ones rather than a succession of crosses. When at Atletico, who play a much deeper defensive line than the likes of Barcelona or Bayern, Courtois' command of his box was exceptional. It's reminiscent of Peter Bonetti, one of the most famous goalkeepers in Chelsea's history, who helped popularise the art of coming to claim crosses in the 1960s and 1970s, at least in England. Bonetti, though, was only 1.77 metres (5-foot-10).

In this respect, Courtois is proactive, just not in the Neuer sense. "I think a goalkeeper has to participate at the back of the defence and come off the line to play," he said in his first interview for Chelsea TV earlier this year. "If you play away from the defence [on the goal line] then the opposition players want to cross the ball. If they see a goalkeeper close to the defenders they don't have the space to cross the ball into, or if they play a high ball forward and they see the keeper coming, the next ball they have to play far away from the goal so there is less danger."

Courtois is equally capable of saving in one-on-one situations. "Now here at Chelsea, it is really important [to come forward from the goal line] because the defence play higher [up the pitch] than Atletico," Courtois says. "There, the defence was lower and I didn't have to come out that much."

The goalkeeping textbook should point to Courtois when it comes to one-on-ones, as the Belgian has helped to redefine what it means for a goalkeeper to be "quick off his line."

"Quick off his line" is often interpreted as a goalkeeper starting his charge towards the goalkeeper immediately, as soon as it becomes apparent the striker is clean through. But how often do you see goalkeepers overcommit, be rounded by the striker or forced to concede a penalty and collect a red card? Some goalkeepers make the same error repeatedly.

Courtois is quick off his line, but he's quick off his line in a different way. For Courtois, "quick" refers to the sprint forward itself, rather than his reaction to the situation. Courtois' genius is that he moves as soon as the striker makes a decisive touch, for he knows strikers don't generally want to take multiple touches in those situations -- they want to knock the ball ahead of themselves, then shoot. Courtois lingers in his goal slightly, encourages the striker to take a heavy touch -- and as soon as that first touch comes, he pounces and sprints quickly forward.

A fine example was in the 2-0 victory over Leicester, Courtois' first home Premier League match. At 0-0 at the start of the second half, Courtois made an excellent one-on-one save from David Nugent that epitomised his style in those situations: He didn't spring forward immediately, but instead waited deep, then darted forward at Nugent's penultimate touch, suddenly narrowing the angle and forcing a quick shot.

Time and time again, throughout his Atletico and Chelsea spells, it seems like strikers overhit their touch against Courtois. Eventually, like Pippo Inzaghi scoring so many "lucky" goals, you realise it's no coincidence, and that Courtois is simply supreme at one-on-ones. Neuer would be sweeping higher up, Courtois starts much deeper, but both are brilliant and worthy of comparison to the world-class attackers they repeatedly deny.

Comparing him to the guy across the pitch is just like comparing my right back to his right back, they won't be coming up against each other. Courtois slots into a defensive unit/setup that emulates the best style to get the best out of Beckenbauer.

The fact that the opposition can take a few pot shots at goal as opposed to breaking it down is rather irrelevant, as we have a keeper who is able to reach those corners to claw the ball away.

On top of that (and this will be my last post for a while as I have to get to my game too) is that the opposition is sitting deep to soak pressure. There was no mention of a pressing system, just a deep line to hit on the counter. That leaves Maradona, Beckenbauer, Neeskens, Netto et al to work the ball around and push for openings. Obviously @Pat_Mustard has a great defense, but we have some of the best players who are able to unlock it.

our wings are set to stretch the play with a prime Giggs who would look to get wide, and create that space for Maradona to operate in. With Beckenbauer able to orchestrate the play if someone does track Diego.

And lastly, since I'm already getting a little "wordy" is that a deep defensive line would leave some gaps if the whole team isn't sitting in and working hard on the defensive end, and I think the opposition in this case would suffer from a few "passengers" in that regard
 
He is sitting deep, soaking and hitting on the break. There's no one individual player getting dragged around by Maradona. That would be a rather pointless effort if I may add, peak Maradona wasn't a player you could just stick someone on. You would have to trust the defensive unit to keep it tight (I do) and when they fail to prevent danger that the keeper will respond (and I trust Dasayev to do it).

@Pat_Mustard makes a very valid point re: Courtois, in such a finely balanced game he would very likely end up being the difference that separates the two teams.
Yeah, still, he is giving too much space to Beckenbauer - Netto - Neeskens, imo - and Giggs with Julinho will do well stretching Pat's defence here

Courtois is definitely a weak link and by far the worst player on the pitch, especially compared to Dasayev. But he isn't likely to make a mistake here and he is fairly covered by S/A defence.

edit: basically I've just repeated Skizzo's points :(
 
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Not really counting on Lahm at right to provide same amount of width as he does left. If Bergomi also plays defensively, it'd be a plethora of players all through the middle to get things working for Skizzo.
Not sure why would they need their fullbacks to provide width when they gave 2 genuine wingers in Giggs and Juninho doing exactly that and 2 box-to-box midfielders comfortable out wide
 
Yeah, still, he is giving too much space to Beckenbauer - Netto - Neeskens, imo - and Giggs with Julinho will do well stretching Pat's defence here

Courtois is definitely a weak link and by far the worst player on the pitch, especially compared to Dasayev. But he isn't likely to make a mistake here and he is fairly covered by S/A defence.

edit: basically I've just repeated Skizzo's points :(

:lol: well at least now I know my thoughts weren't completely out of left field
 
The goal output of wingers differs between a 442 and a 4231. Here if he needs more threat in the box, I'd expect more support from his fullbacks.

During Julinhos era the outside right would provide width but they also had the freedom to cut inside which is why his goal output was still good. He played most if not his entire career without a modern full back and "score a lot of goals from that side with 101 goals in 191 games for Palmeiras and 13 in 31 for Brazil." which are great for a winger who created far more than he scored himself.

Giggs played as a wide midfielder most of his career and still managed to score plenty of goals himself and rack up a lot of assists and otherwise involvement in goals. Lahm will provide a better supporting cast than most other left backs that Giggs played with. Again, Maradona was a constant threat out wide and he would be found in the wide channels over and over through out this game challenging the full back for a 1 vs 1 while Giggs made the off the ball run.

Between the four of them, young Giggs scored up to 17 in one season, Maradona 21, while Leonidas averaged over a goal per game through out almost his entire career - all from the roles they are playing here. They're all capable of scoring goals, the match will be decided by who has the play to create goals.

Not to mention Neeskens and Beckenbauer who scored goals as well from their positions.

I do think Maradona and Beckenbauer together will create the most decisive chances in this game, being the two best players working in together beautifully.
 
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Went for Skizzoanaho atm. I still don't really like Lahm in Breitner's role; I don't think Lahm on the left can offer what Breitner did. But that spine is just too solid IMO. In a dogfight, I think Skizzoanaho has advantage with more versatile players and the two best players on the pitch in Maradona and Beckenbauer. I think I read that Maradona always had tremendous respect for Kaiser and would have liked to play with him. I just see that spine as too strong supported by Neeskens and Netto for Falcao and Matthaus. I don't think this match favors Rivaldo and can see him going invisible with these tactics.

I think S/A flanks are more unpredictable offering a wider range of threat with Giggs and Julinho whereas Dzajic and Johnstone seem a little more predictable and easier for someone like Bergomi to manage efficiently.
 
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Went for Skizzoanaho atm. I still don't really like Lahm in Breitner's role; I don't think Lahm on the left can offer what Breitner did. But that spine is just too solid IMO. In a dogfight, I think Skizzoanaho has advantage with more versatile players and the two best players on the pitch in Maradona and Beckenbauer. I think I read that Maradona always had tremendous respect for Kaiser and would have liked to play with him. I just see that spine as too strong supported by Neeskens and Netto for Falcao and Matthaus. I don't think this match favors Rivaldo and can see him going invisible with these tactics.
:drool: Lahm is not there to try to offer what Breitner did, don't get me wrong. Lahm is covered defensively and will be covered to roam forward in a free role, which he'd play very different to Breitner. Lahm would be far more of a regular left back focusing on the overlap and instead of those massive runs straight in to the heart of the opponents defense like Breitner would provide - Lahm would happily just use his composure under pressure and great passing to find someone else making the run(Leonidas/Giggs/Netto/Maradona).

"Beckenbauer, dijo qu es "apropiada" la comparación entre Maradona y Messi. Pero, si bien confesó que admira la "determinación de ambos", ubicó al ex astro del Napoli por encima del rosarino por ser "más excepcional"."

I do think that it is hard to find a mix of those top five in history who would blend as well as Beckenbauer and Maradona.
 
:drool: Lahm is not there to try to offer what Breitner did, don't get me wrong. Lahm is covered defensively and will be covered to roam forward in a free role, which he'd play very different to Breitner. Lahm would be far more of a regular left back focusing on the overlap and instead of those massive runs straight in to the heart of the opponents defense like Breitner would provide - Lahm would happily just use his composure under pressure and great passing to find someone else making the run(Leonidas/Giggs/Netto/Maradona).

"Beckenbauer, dijo qu es "apropiada" la comparación entre Maradona y Messi. Pero, si bien confesó que admira la "determinación de ambos", ubicó al ex astro del Napoli por encima del rosarino por ser "más excepcional"."

I do think that it is hard to find a mix of those top five in history who would blend as well as Beckenbauer and Maradona.


Yeah I get that. Breitner is just the one player I had time to finally watch more games of and learn more about this draft. As a former [really bad] youth LB, I just fell in love with his playstyle. It was like how I always wanted to play even though I was more like a 1970s English league hatchetman. But if you guys win and land in the right box, I might hold it against you in the future if you don't select Breitner ;)
 
Yeah I get that. Breitner is just the one player I had time to finally watch more games of and learn more about. As a former really bad youth LB, I just fell in love with his playstyle. It was like how I always wanted to play even though I was really more like a 1970s English hatchetman. But if you guys win and land in the right box, I might hold it against you in the future if you don't select Breitner ;)

I also fell in love with him for his left back exploits in this draft. I was planning to pick him up thinking he was well underrated as a left back but at least I'd get to bring up what I saw and have a discussion about it. But it seemed that people already rated him highly there. So you can bet I will pick him up if I have the chance, even if Lahm has proven for years that he is a great left back and was already one of the best full backs in the world as a left back.
 
The man who discovered him is called Hermann Gerland. He is now Bayern's assistant coach but used to be the coach of the reserves, where the club grooms its homegrown talents. He once said: "Lahm was already perfect when he was 17. He could do it all, there was nothing left for me to teach him." Gerland also said: "Philipp never played a bad game for me. He is incapable of playing badly.“Philipp never played a bad game for me. He is incapable of playing badly" - Former Bayern youth coach Hermann Gerland

When Lahm was 19, in 2003, Gerland tried to find a loan club for him because the youngster wouldn't get the playing time he needed in Bayern's star-studded side. Gerland phoned Felix Magath, then coaching VfB Stuttgart and offered him the services of a player "who looks like he's 15 but plays as if he 30". A skeptical Magath wanted to know where he should play this wonderboy. Gerland replied: "At right-back. Or left-back. Or right-sided midfield. Or central midfield."

Two months after the loan deal, Stuttgart met Manchester United in the Champions League. According to Gerland, Sir Alex Ferguson took one look at Lahm and immediately wanted to sign him.
That has been the story of the last 10 years: Lahm fitted in wherever you played him, hardly ever put in even a middling performance and immediately earned the admiration of anyone who knows the game. But it probably took the arrival of Pep Guardiola to make the world realise how good Lahm really is.

"When it comes to attempts on goal however, there is a clear discrepancy. In his previous left back days, Lahm racked up a total of 36. Since moving to the right, he has managed only 14. At the same time, he has managed to up his crosses per game average from 2.6 to 3.7. While playing on the left though, around a quarter of those crosses found a team-mate in the middle. His quota as a right back is lower, at just 19 percent.

On the defensive front, the Munich-born star was also more active as a left back, averaging 9.1 man-on-man situations a game, of which he won 62.6 percent. His average down the right has been 6.4, almost three less, and he came out on top in “only” 58 percent of those. When it comes to clearing the ball, too, left has trumped right by 158 to 82 thus far. And when FC Bayern set a new Bundesliga record for fewest goals conceded (21) in 2007-08, Philipp Lahm was their left back."
 
Went for Skizzoanaho atm. I still don't really like Lahm in Breitner's role; I don't think Lahm on the left can offer what Breitner did. But that spine is just too solid IMO. In a dogfight, I think Skizzoanaho has advantage with more versatile players and the two best players on the pitch in Maradona and Beckenbauer. I think I read that Maradona always had tremendous respect for Kaiser and would have liked to play with him. I just see that spine as too strong supported by Neeskens and Netto for Falcao and Matthaus. I don't think this match favors Rivaldo and can see him going invisible with these tactics.

I think S/A flanks are more unpredictable offering a wider range of threat with Giggs and Julinho whereas Dzajic and Johnstone seem a little more predictable and easier for someone like Bergomi to manage efficiently.

No issues with you voting for Skizzo/Annah as hey have a fantastic team of course but what do you feel Giggs and Julinho offer that Dzajic and Johnsone don't? Dzajic and Johnstone can do pretty much everything you'd want from a pair of wingers IMO. Incredible dribbling and crossing of course, and between them capable of hurting the opposition from all areas, with Dzajic's knack of taking up good scoring positions in the box and Johnstone's ability to drive at defences from deep:

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