Lukaku: Aguero successor

[GifLord]

Lukaku had a great game regardless of this goal (which was a great move). Many posters here at this time also believed that. He got high rating in many sites for his performance in this game.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brazil-1-2-belgium-player-12868019

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-de-bruyne-romelu-lukaku-neymar-a8435651.html

I'm not giving him "too much credit". It's the opposite. You're the one who doesn't want to give him any credit whatsoever, to the point of actually bringing silly arguments. You're obsessed with proving that he's shit and shouldn't be credited with anything, it's kind of weird to be honest.

Because he is shit
This was just 1 week ago







I don't rate overrated players who stat pad but go MIA when it really matters against top sides - People nowadays are all about xG and stats
Benzema said it best a few days ago. You''re shit for 90min but then you score a goal in the 91st min and you're rewarded with a MOTM award and get all the spotlight.
That's Lukaku

 

[el3mel]

Because he is shit
This was just 1 week ago







I don't rate overrated players who stat pad but go MIA when it really matters against top sides - People nowadays are all about xG and stats
Benzema said it best a few days ago. You''re shit for 90min but then you score a goal in the 91st min and you're rewarded with a MOTM award and get all the spotlight.
That's Lukaku

It's fine to rate or not rate player. It's actually weird and unhealthy to be obsessed with proving that he's shit by discrediting any good thing he does, spotlighting every shit ball he plays and be camped in his threads to respond to any positive thing said about him. It's really weird no matter how you look into it. You're ready to ignore any good game he plays for whatever reasons and focus on the shit games. Pretty weird obsession.

 

[OL29]

It's fine to rate or not rate player. It's actually weird and unhealthy to be obsessed with proving that he's shit by discrediting any good thing he does, spotlighting every shit ball he plays and be camped in his threads to respond to any positive thing said about him. It's really weird no matter how you look into it. You're ready to ignore any good game he plays for whatever reasons and focus on the shit games. Pretty weird obsession.

A lot of posters do this with our current players which is even more strange.

 

[Stormpetrel]

Croatia are very poor at the moment. Even we beat them and we're currently dog shit
He's barely scored against top opposition over 80% of his international goals are against cannon fodder.

Couldn't score vs Germany (2 games), Spain, France (3 games), Argentina, Italy (2 games) & Brazil

What is belgium % of games against cannon fodder?
What is the team % of goal against cannon fodder?

 

[United in sin]

You're giving Lukaku way too much credit for that goal. A belter from outside the box and Lukaku had a good game based on that move?
Also just checked his goalscoring record against top 6 in Italy
Last 2 seasons 20 games 8 goals - 3 from pens
He's just not that good when playing against top teams

So he's not too different from our Bruno who is toothless against top teams for us. I believe some posters will just never give Lukaku credit no matter what he does in the pitch

 

[GifLord]

So he's not too different from our Bruno who is toothless against top teams for us. I believe some posters will just never give Lukaku credit no matter what he does in the pitch

Bruno has been shocking for most of the season though

 

[Bepi]

His problems at Utd certainly weren’t due to ‘bad habits’.

He’s famously quoted as saying that he wanted to leave the club after his 2nd training session.

The ‘issues’ were that Utd didn’t have a clue as to how to get the best out of his exceptional talents.

He was still a fantastic striker for Utd - he scored circa 1 goal from every 3 shots - the same stats as Harry Kane except that Harry Kane got much more service, so took many more shots and consequently scored a lot more goals.
Utd supporters wearing the pink tints have a downer on the guy but it’s unfair and unwarranted as it was the clubs management that failed the player rather than visa versa.

In all fairness, many City supporters (blue tints on) have a similar negative take on him because he was a Utd player and didn’t function as he should in a red shirt.
However, that’s just twisted attitudes, that don’t detract from what he clearly is, and I’d happily have him at City.
In fact I’d prefer him to Kane because I think he’d be better than Kane in a functioning system that served his talents.

It’s academic for Utd supporters now because he wouldn’t return to the club after his experience there.
What isn’t academic is that the issue of not getting the best out of extremely talented players still persists and great players often wilt under the clubs care (VDB being one recent example - I only wish that we had him as he’s fantastic).
Anyhow, that’s my take on it and it’s not due to any lack of respect - just me, looking in from the outside as a supporter of football.

Ok, ‘bad habits’ was incorrect words on my side to say that Conte pretended a rigorous approach to Lukaku’s conditioning, which started from a detailed medical assessment of his metabolism and went on with tailored diets, exercises and mental training.

He was an expensive asset and Inter tried to maximise his output since day 1, which they did pretty well indeed if you consider he is neither the most natural scorer nor the most talented footballer.I am not going on to say that United did not take care of him: Lukaku said he was often left to himself, without guidance, and he drifted out.

Mind, football aside, this kind of feedback from an employee just shows his employer’s sloppiness, which turns into lower than expected performance level. I mean: Lukaku underperformed at United and overperformed under Conte, with Conte being a notorious manic able to make the most of his players overperform.

 

[HerbT]

Ok, ‘bad habits’ was incorrect words on my side to say that Conte pretended a rigorous approach to Lukaku’s conditioning, which started from a detailed medical assessment of his metabolism and went on with tailored diets, exercises and mental training.

He was an expensive asset and Inter tried to maximise his output since day 1, which they did pretty well indeed if you consider he is neither the most natural scorer nor the most talented footballer.I am not going on to say that United did not take care of him: Lukaku said he was often left to himself, without guidance, and he drifted out.

Mind, football aside, this kind of feedback from an employee just shows his employer’s sloppiness, which turns into lower than expected performance level. I mean: Lukaku underperformed at United and overperformed under Conte, with Conte being a notorious manic able to make the most of his players overperform.

I can appreciate your take, that's kind of how I first perceived him, probably driven by his up and down club level performances.
Then I heard that Kevin DeBruyne was trying to get City to buy Lukaku and I wondered why the eff he'd do that?
So, I looked at DeBruynes relationship with Lukaku, at an international level, and then I understood.
Played in the right system (as example; played in Belgium's system where he grew up and where they'd learned to get the best out of him), he's phenominal.
Lukaku's movement and ability to take a ball from anywhere and score, makes him a great fit with DeBruyne, he makes DeBruyne look good because he uses the service he receives very well and DeBruyne knows it.

I'll try to show this here.

At West Brom 2012/13 he was good
35 games 17 goals (35/17)

At Everton 2013/17 he did
31/15 (ok)
36/10 (ouch!)
37/18 (ok)
37/25 (nice)

At United 2017/19
34/16 (ooh)
32/12 (boo)

At Inter Milan 2019/21
36/23 (nice
36/24 (nicer)

Then look at his international record as comparrison.
2016/21 (the 'sussed' years)
14/11
9/9
14/14
5/7
5/5
5/5

His senior team games for Belgium span right across his tenures at Anderlecht, Chelsea, Everton, United and Inter Milan.
As Belgium's striker, he was ok some years not so ok in others, right up until 2015, after that (2016 onwards / the 'sussed' years) he's been an absolute goal scoring monster for his national side. They had him blowing hot and cold from 2011 to 2015 and then they sussed how to use him.
That comparison between national performance and club level performance, whereby his club performances can dive while his national performances are great and getting better, show that he's lethal if used correctly. His national side now use him correctly and have 5 unbroken years of awesome from him to prove it.
His problem with United was that United didn't know how to use him and he knew it.

 

[Leeuw]

Lukaku has improved a lot the last 2 years. I predicted that he would score more goals in the first 2 games of the World cup then in all the other games of the world cup. I believe he can score against better sides now.

But I would never make him the main striker if I was the person who decided which players to get at one of the biggest clubs in the world. I think he is a player that needs to feel that he is liked and so not so much competition in the squad.

 

[11101]

It was relatively benign stuff. Came across as a bit of a wally but you’d have to be seriously thin skinned to take much offence.

It is quite normal for fans to try and find reasons to dislike players that flop at one club then do well at the next one. Classic transference.

If you care to look back through my posting history you'll find i wanted him gone from early on in his United career.

He'll scores bags of goals against cannon fodder and disappear when he faces a good defence. That's fine, most sides can do very well with that, but it's no use to teams like us or City.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If you care to look back through my posting history you'll find i wanted him gone from early on in his United career.

He'll scores bags of goals against cannon fodder and disappear when he faces a good defence. That's fine, most sides can do very well with that, but it's no use to teams like us or City.

I’m sure the Lukaku haters are a broad church. If you never rated him at any stage you’ll probably be even more invested in arguing that he’s not as good as his prolific goal-scoring implies.

Re your second paragraph, our season could have turned out very differently with a few more goals against “cannon fodder”.

For what it’s worth, I still think it was probably the right decision to move him on. But can’t help wondering how things would have turned out if we’d found a way to get him as fit/motivated at United as he looks for Inter and Belgium.

 

[RUCK4444]

He’s not shite but he’s not great either.

No great shakes, there’s tonnes of players like that. Don’t get why it’s debated so much.

We know his limitations would be highlighted again back in the PL. He gets goals but for a club like us trying to chase a title he’s too wasteful and too much of a flat track bully.

Flat track bully isn’t necessarily a bad thing, you need to beat the lesser teams every bit as much as the top clubs, but you also need your no. 9 to show up in big games.

 

[Bertie 2 Hats]

Lukaku is a steak & chips goal scorer but a pie & peas footballer.

 

[11101]

I’m sure the Lukaku haters are a broad church. If you never rated him at any stage you’ll probably be even more invested in arguing that he’s not as good as his prolific goal-scoring implies.

Re your second paragraph, our season could have turned out very differently with a few more goals against “cannon fodder”.

For what it’s worth, I still think it was probably the right decision to move him on. But can’t help wondering how things would have turned out if we’d found a way to get him as fit/motivated at United as he looks for Inter and Belgium.

Cantona
Yorke
Van Nistelrooy
Rooney
Ronaldo
Van Persie

Tevez
Aguero

Drogba
Costa

Suarez
Salah

Henry

Those have been the main strikers for the big teams over the PL era. It doesn't matter how fit or motivated he is, he's never going to be in that company.

 

[diarm]

He'll always be good at banging in plenty of goals against the weaker sides and at the same time, he'll always wilt in the big games and against good teams.

The guy has 60 odd international goals at 27 which is bloody impressive. But they all come from hattricks against the likes of Luxembourg, Cyprus or San Marino. He's never scored a single goal against Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Holland, France or Italy and has a goal each against England (a penalty) and Portugal.

His record in games between the big 10 countries is 2 in 19.

People say he's improved in the last couple of years and he probably has -he certainly looks leaner and fitter than when he was here. But he's also found a level that allows for his weaknesses. You can't get away with a shambolic first touch in the Prem because defenders are on you in a heartbeat, whereas in Italy you get that extra half second to make up for it.

You can watch every goal he's scored this season on Youtube and the defending for half of them is absolutely hilarious.

 

[ryan_forlan]

Dint score a goal vs Denmark.
Was given Motm.
Was the one who helped create and setup the goals.

Wonder what drivel the idiotic but creative posters will come up with this time.

 

[Bebestation]

For me the big problem with Lukaku was how much he cost vs how valuable he was for us, how much he would lose the ball during first touches or unable to score important harder goals.

The fact that we nearly made our money back from selling him for 70 mill was just too good to avoid.

If someone had only payed 35-45 million for him - I’m pretty sure we would have kept him.

 

[Champ]

Was unplayable at times against Denmark, seems to have carried his league form over to this tournament.

 

[::sonny::]

Wanna?

 

[sullydnl]

I will say that even with not having worked out here, he's absolutely murdered the Morata v Lukaku debate from the year we signed him.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

He has been brilliant so far. Best player in the tournament potentially so far? I know France only played one game though and they had many good players.

I feel as if Lukaku and Pogba been the most impressive guys so far. What could have been for us when we all hoped they would win us the league and imagine if we added Bruno with them as well. I feel our managers need to take the blame for not getting the best out of these players.
Mostly Mourinho, but also Ole for selling Lukaku and not being able to convince him to stay. I know Lukaku etc wanted to leave which was annoying I guess.

 

[Ali Dia]

I genuinely think Lukaku checked out mentally here after he fell out with Pogba. Yeah he wasn’t amazing in enough big games but he was class against PSG. I think he’s entering his peak years now and we will be having this discussion for a while yet.

 

[Ish]

Lingard - going from 1 goals in 22 PL last season (avg rating 6.3) to 9 goals 4 assists in 16 games this season (avg rating 7.22). He did shine despite not scoring in his last few games there.
Zaha - well we sold him for 3m and he is later worth 75m at one point. I think he is doing far better than what we were expecting, despite not given much chances here.
Smalling - Fair enough. But maybe we shouldn't sell him, he isn't any worst than Lindelof.
Depay - For whatever his issues at Man Utd, he becomes a top player for Lyon, scored 20 goals 12 assist last season, beating PSG to league title, and outperform the likes of Neymar over there. He did shine far better than what we have been expecting.

Did Depay win the league with Lyon? I thought it was Lille.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I genuinely think Lukaku checked out mentally here after he fell out with Pogba. Yeah he wasn’t amazing in enough big games but he was class against PSG. I think he’s entering his peak years now and we will be having this discussion for a while yet.

Did he fall out with Pogba?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Yeah it is typical Depay and Lukaku two of the best stars in Euros that we had.

We spent big on many great talents, but it did not work for us.

Maybe it is down to the pressure or just poor coaching or other factors?

I guess Chelsea did the same with Salah and KDB too I guess.

 

[Ali Dia]

Did he fall out with Pogba?

yeah I believe so. he changed agent from Mino while he was here. I think the thing with Zlatan last season is some kind of continuation from their time at United. It’s funny that by the end of this summer if Pogba doesn’t sign it will probably be beyond much doubt that Lukaku is who we should have kept, especially if we insist on playing Pogba as a box to box in a 2. Plus he only stayed for one deal after a world record return and all the added agent hassle over the years. I guess it’s just personal preference/hindsight but I think keeping Lukaku would have been better value.

 

[GifLord]

yeah I believe so. he changed agent from Mino while he was here. I think the thing with Zlatan last season is some kind of continuation from their time at United. It’s funny that by the end of this summer if Pogba doesn’t sign it will probably be beyond much doubt that Lukaku is who we should have kept, especially if we insist on playing Pogba as a box to box in a 2. Plus he only stayed for one deal after a world record return and all the added agent hassle over the years. I guess it’s just personal preference/hindsight but I think keeping Lukaku would have been better value.

Some of you still living in cloud 9

 

[Ali Dia]

Some of you still living in cloud 9

We get it, you hate him.

When it’s all said and done here I don’t think the statement will be proven to be outlandish. Yeah Pogba is a much more aesthetically pleasing footballer, a better footballer but we are about to lose him on a free for the second time after making a world record investment. He doesn’t even have a solid position anymore. I think it’s fair to say if there was any split we backed the more flighty player but I understand it due to his marketability and obvious history at the club. We still need a younger box striker and will have to reinvest in midfield once Pogba goes so instead of only needing one player we will need two again soon.

 

[He'sRaldo]

We get it, you hate him.

When it’s all said and done here I don’t think the statement will be proven to be outlandish. Yeah Pogba is a much more aesthetically pleasing footballer, a better footballer but we are about to lose him on a free for the second time after making a world record investment. He doesn’t even have a solid position anymore. I think it’s fair to say if there was any split we backed the more flighty player but I understand it due to his marketability and obvious history at the club. We still need a younger box striker and will have to reinvest in midfield once Pogba goes so instead of only needing one player we will need two again soon.

It's doubtful Lukaku would be the same player had he stayed. He played off the right wing a lot of the time under Ole, so had he been here your complaints would have been similar.

 

[GifLord]

We get it, you hate him.

When it’s all said and done here I don’t think the statement will be proven to be outlandish. Yeah Pogba is a much more aesthetically pleasing footballer, a better footballer but we are about to lose him on a free for the second time after making a world record investment. He doesn’t even have a solid position anymore. I think it’s fair to say if there was any split we backed the more flighty player but I understand it due to his marketability and obvious history at the club. We still need a younger box striker and will have to reinvest in midfield once Pogba goes so instead of only needing one player we will need two again soon.

Yeah it will. There's a big difference playing in Italy vs England. Also people saying he's been amazing this Euro tournament. He was absolute wank 1st half vs a very poor Denmark side. In the 2nd half besides that run he was mostly useless so saying he's been amazing is just crazy. People are seriously lowering their expectations when rating Lukaku . I've seen this last night while watching the ITV highlights. Aluko said that Lukau in the 1st half was in open space numerous times but the players didn't pass the ball to him. How about being blunt about it and saying it as is? He was bad?

 

[Ali Dia]

It's doubtful Lukaku would be the same player had he stayed. He played off the right wing a lot of the time under Ole, so had he been here your complaints would have been similar.

Obviously it’s all guesswork. The Italian league isn’t as difficult but Inter will make a profit on Lukaku if they sell him in the morning. We stand to lose at least 50 -90 million on Pogba. Lukaku has stayed fit and by all accounts is a leader in the inter team. Pogba has been plagued by injuries and by all accounts has wanted to leave every summer since he got here but he’s also supposedly a very influential player for us. That doesn’t stack up right for me. As I said I prefer Pogba as a player but if we’d kept Lukaku I think he’d have settled here and delivered coming into his prime if we used him properly (ie not a target man). Pogba is still as much of an enigma here as he was when he left the first time and he’s probably going to need replacing again very soon

 

[He'sRaldo]

Obviously it’s all guesswork. The Italian league isn’t as difficult but Inter will make a profit on Lukaku if they sell him in the morning. We stand to lose at least 50 -90 million on Pogba. Lukaku has stayed fit and by all accounts is a leader in the inter team. Pogba has been plagued by injuries and by all accounts has wanted to leave every summer since he got here but he’s also supposedly a very influential player for us. That doesn’t stack up right for me. As I said I prefer Pogba as a player but if we’d kept Lukaku I think he’d have settled here and delivered coming into his prime if we used him properly (ie not a target man). Pogba is still as much of an enigma here as he was when he left the first time and he’s probably going to need replacing again very soon

Maybe, maybe not. Lukaku's lowest career point was at Utd, same as Pogba. I don't see any reason why it would be any different, especially since Ole didn't seem to know how to use him.

I would have liked the man to succeed here, but things weren't setup for him that way. The bulking up, target man role, playing as a single striker without a foil, playing on the RW, etc. It was all the wrong conditions.

He's a very good player in the right environment, but I don't think we'd have seen that player too often. In the end we recouped our fee for him and he's showing his qualities elsewhere, so it's a win for all involved.

 

[abkmufc92]

Yeah it will. There's a big difference playing in Italy vs England. Also people saying he's been amazing this Euro tournament. He was absolute wank 1st half vs a very poor Denmark side. In the 2nd half besides that run he was mostly useless so saying he's been amazing is just crazy. People are seriously lowering their expectations when rating Lukaku . I've seen this last night while watching the ITV highlights. Aluko said that Lukau in the 1st half was in open space numerous times but the players didn't pass the ball to him. How about being blunt about it and saying it as is? He was bad?

"There's a big difference playing in Italy vs England"

Yeah not like he didn't do anything at clubs he played for in England, you type some absolute shit

"In the 2nd half besides that run he was mostly useless"

He was involved in both their goals so how the feck was useless then

 

[GifLord]

"There's a big difference playing in Italy vs England"

Yeah not like he didn't do anything at clubs he played for in England, you type some absolute shit

"In the 2nd half besides that run he was mostly useless"

He was involved in both their goals so how the feck was useless then

Are you being serious??
This is what i meant by lowering their expectations when it comes to Lukaku.
Any other player wouldn't even get a mention yet Lukaku does

This is the 2nd Belgium goal btw


Is this what they call nowadays a pre-pre assist?
Some of you need a reality check when it comes to Lukaku

 

[Pow]

Are you being serious??
This is what i meant by lowering their expectations when it comes to Lukaku.
Any other player wouldn't even get a mention yet Lukaku does

This is the 2nd Belgium goal btw


Is this what they call nowadays a pre-pre assist?
Some of you need a reality check when it comes to Lukaku

That's great hold up play by lukaku who held off a man
Turned two guys and layer it off which led to a goal. Exactly the thing people like you say he can't do.

 

[abkmufc92]

Are you being serious??
This is what i meant by lowering their expectations when it comes to Lukaku.
Any other player wouldn't even get a mention yet Lukaku does

This is the 2nd Belgium goal btw

Is this what they call nowadays a pre-pre assist?
Some of you need a reality check when it comes to Lukaku

A well worked team goal and your going out of way to discredit Lukaku's involvement in it.

You don't discredit anyone else for this shit except for Lukaku, you're a joke.

 

[11101]

Yeah it will. There's a big difference playing in Italy vs England. Also people saying he's been amazing this Euro tournament. He was absolute wank 1st half vs a very poor Denmark side. In the 2nd half besides that run he was mostly useless so saying he's been amazing is just crazy. People are seriously lowering their expectations when rating Lukaku . I've seen this last night while watching the ITV highlights. Aluko said that Lukau in the 1st half was in open space numerous times but the players didn't pass the ball to him. How about being blunt about it and saying it as is? He was bad?

For the first he kicked the ball out ahead of him and ran faster than the other guy.

For the second he used his strength to keep the defender off the ball.

Both things he could do in England against weaker defenders and can do all season long in Italy. Try it against the best teams though and you quickly have a hindrance rather than a help in your team as he repeatedly loses the ball and breaks attacks down. Pace merchants and big lumps quickly get found out at the top level. He's better than most as he has both but it's still always going to keep him from working in a top team.

He has improved from his awful second season with us but he's still the same limited player I saw at Everton and when he first arrived with us.

 

[Stacks]

His problems at Utd certainly weren’t due to ‘bad habits’.

He’s famously quoted as saying that he wanted to leave the club after his 2nd training session.

The ‘issues’ were that Utd didn’t have a clue as to how to get the best out of his exceptional talents.

He was still a fantastic striker for Utd - he scored circa 1 goal from every 3 shots - the same stats as Harry Kane except that Harry Kane got much more service, so took many more shots and consequently scored a lot more goals.
Utd supporters wearing the pink tints have a downer on the guy but it’s unfair and unwarranted as it was the clubs management that failed the player rather than visa versa.

In all fairness, many City supporters (blue tints on) have a similar negative take on him because he was a Utd player and didn’t function as he should in a red shirt.
However, that’s just twisted attitudes, that don’t detract from what he clearly is, and I’d happily have him at City.
In fact I’d prefer him to Kane because I think he’d be better than Kane in a functioning system that served his talents.

It’s academic for Utd supporters now because he wouldn’t return to the club after his experience there.
What isn’t academic is that the issue of not getting the best out of extremely talented players still persists and great players often wilt under the clubs care (VDB being one recent example - I only wish that we had him as he’s fantastic).
Anyhow, that’s my take on it and it’s not due to any lack of respect - just me, looking in from the outside as a supporter of football.

Amazing. A striker is outperformed by Kane every season they are together and it just takes a move to Italy to overtake him??

imma bookmark this for when you sign him

 

[Stacks]

Croatia are very poor at the moment. Even we beat them and we're currently dog shit
He's barely scored against top opposition over 80% of his international goals are against cannon fodder.

Couldn't score vs Germany (2 games), Spain, France (3 games), Argentina, Italy (2 games) & Brazil

most international players score vs fodder

You can play a very good game without scoring goals. He didn't score against Brazil but he was crucial for their win and a big reason they scored the second goal.



You can't just say "he didn't score so he had no impact".

He is surprisingly good on the RW. Since his Everton days I remember he played there vs Arsenal and he was great.

 

[RooneyLegend]

People say he's improved in the last couple of years and he probably has -he certainly looks leaner and fitter than when he was here. But he's also found a level that allows for his weaknesses. You can't get away with a shambolic first touch in the Prem because defenders are on you in a heartbeat, whereas in Italy you get that extra half second to make up for it.

You can watch every goal he's scored this season on Youtube and the defending for half of them is absolutely hilarious.

The only real difference in his scoring in the prem and in serie a is that he's now the primary penalty take which wasn't the case in the prem. The most goals he's scored in a season still remains his last Everton season. Without penalties he's scored 17 and 18 league goals respectively in the past two seasons. Numbers he was very capable of in the prem.