Yes & no, as Tata Martino learned
Overall though, Lucho must go - not just for his tactical naivety but a cycle for a Barcelona coach rarely extends beyond 3-4 seasons
Luis Enrique to leave Barcelona at end of the season
- Thread starter Damien
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Yes & no, as Tata Martino learned
Overall though, Lucho must go - not just for his tactical naivety but a cycle for a Barcelona coach rarely extends beyond 3-4 seasons
Tatas football wasn't as bad as Enriques and he didn't have MSN. The club has a culture that destroys itself from inside out. It's a poisoned chalice. Nothing has changed in that regards since I started watching them in the 80s.
I'd love for my club to be destroyed from the inside out the way Barcelona has been since Cruyff became their manager.
If Mourinho or Guardiola or Ancelotti were Barcelona manager and something like that happened everybody would talk about this game as their miracle for decades, but It`s a shame that Enrique will never get such credit and it will always be the Barcelona miracle. He`s not in Pep`s or Mou`s level but he should get huge credit for that result. It was one of the most amazing things I ever watched.
Barcelona have had the mostracised Balon dor players in history of football at the club and only became a dominant force after Guardiola came. The clubs management is very mafioso like and Maradona alluded to this when he left. Ironic considering his ties in Naples but a story for another day.
They have had the best players throughout history but always end up biting their own tales. Lord Cruijffs philosphy gave them a base to work on, Louis van Gaal gave them a more structured model and Guardiola took it to the next level.
United can't attract Barcelona level talent so there is that.
Exactly. It's amazing how many forget that up until 1994, Barcelona never the CL and up until 10 years ago, they had one! They are not the most successful club in their country and their European return up until a decade ago was embarrassing for a club of their standing and considering the players they have had. You are absolutely right also about how the accumulation of influences between Cruyff, LvG and Pep has played a huge role in changing that. One can't underestimate also the different Messi made to them. The point is what we are seeing from Barcelona recently is utterly unique.
No he shouldn't get that much credit, neither should Mourinho or Pep or whoever really. Comebacks like that are not the result of some meticulous planning, strategic or tactical preparation. They are a mixture of luck, character, determination, skill of the players, etc. Managers should be credited with coming up with systems and implementing them that extract the best out of their players or for having an eye for talent to bring to their team, not one off events like yesterday's. You might bring up the argument that Fergie was credited with the mental strengths of his United teams which was illustrated by the numerous comebacks we have launched, but in that case, it was the consistency and those comebacks, they meant there was a pattern at play there that could only have been traced to the manager, not a one-off comeback.
The announcement of his 'decision' to leave the club was a brilliant move.
I thought the timing of it was brilliant. Probably had decided after the Paris debacle and waited for a superlative performance to reveal his decision. Plus, he was going to invariably be nagged about what he was going to do throughout the rest of the compétitions - big distraction. Now, the focus will be elsewhere
Barca rarely make big name signings, the bulk of Barca level talent came though their own academy .
Even their big name players didn't come from elite clubs, they sign players ready to take the step up. Fair play to Barca but anybody with money could have signed Suarez etc. Hell Arsenal nearly did, even United had Ronaldinho halfway to Manchester before Kenyon fecked it up.
I'm talking about talent here. Di Stefano was meant to be a Barcelona player. One of the 5 kings. Lord Cruijff was a Barcelona player, another one of the 5 kings. Maradona another one of the 5 kings. Both Maradona and Lord Cruijff wete record world transfers at the time.
Only when Lord Cruijff suggested to Nunez that he invest in La Masia when he left as a Barcelona player did that ideology even have a form. Cruijff came and instilled the methodology for their reverred positinal game. Rivaldo won the Ballon D'or at Barcelona, as did Figo, R9 won it for his season at Barcelona when he joined inter as the newly crowned El Fenomino.
Barcelona where struggling during the Ronaldinho saga and in fact Real Madrid should have signed him a year earlier but Florentino told him to wait a year. Laporta used the Beckham signing as a smoke screen to sign Dinho. Manchester United are simply not on the same level as Barcelona when it comes to the all the time greats. The heavy La Masia usage only happened under Cruijff, van Gaal integrated a few youngsters but was chastised by the Spanish press for turning Barcelona into Ajax 2.0 with the massive influx of Dutch players.
The massive usage of La Masia was part of Laportas strategy under his Mes que Un club theme and under the advice of Lord Cruijff. Grimaldo was sold, Thiago Alcantara was sold for peanuts. The club is like any other super team now in playing style and transfer activity.
Even Michael Robinson long ago mentioned that pre-Cruyff you'd struggle to find a Barcelona fan in Spain outside of Catalunya - no longer
Cruyff is to Barcelona what Sheikh Mansour is to man city
Part of the reason perhaps... but lets also factor in the Barca culture of manager churn...
Rijkaard lasted 5 years... the previous manager to last any longer than that was Jack Greenwall and was in charge 1917 to 1923
So three years isn't a bad run as Barca manager (61 Managers appointed in the last 100 years!... we have had 20 by way of comparison)
Lord Cruijff was there for over 6 years...
I agree with what you said but the fact is if those managers were at Barca they would get much more credit than what Enrique is getting.
And i think Enrique has done those things, even if he won`t win a trophy this year he still has done a great job at Barcelona. 2 Leagues, 2 Copa del Ray, 1 CL, that`s fantastic.
I agree with that actually. But still I would think it is misplaced credit even if it was a more glamorous name. I mean sure, you can't win all of that without having a part in it but it is nowhere near the part that Pep played in their success. Enriqué's contribution is more reminiscent of Grant taking Chelsea to a CL final and coming within one game of a PL title, he certainly had a role to play but nowhere near significant to the point of managerial greatness. The reason I say this is when watching Barcelona, there obviously is no method to their game, no control or at least nowhere near the control they displayed under Pep. They are more of a traditional normal team now in the sense that you can actually attack them and make their goalkeeper work. Their greatness comes from simply having what I think is the best front three in club football history. They bailed them out vs Bayern two years ago and bailed them out yesterday again. Under Pep you always felt you were watching a team that moves and makes space in a synced clockwork like manner, now that was the work of managerial brilliance.
I would expect nothing less from him. Always had the winner mentality. I saw him deadpan that if PSG could score four they may just go and score 6 and knew the nutter was really going to get that message across.
Great tactician or not, you need that sort of confidence at a big club over anything else. Tactics are useless if you have a Moyes or Wenger at the helm.
The win was more down to PSG choking than it being a great tactical game from Enrique and Barca. That's just my opinion and it looks like his cycle at Barca is over.
I genuinely can't understand why you want him gone. What he did there was prove he put the club above everything else including his own ego. Good luck finding someone better who also offers that (which, to me, with the egos in there, is absolutely massive).
I'd be very surprised if anyone thinks yesterday was the work of tactical brilliance. Technically and tactically yesterday was a every average performance from them compared to what they usually serve up. It was pure individual skill, guts, and luck.
The disappearance of the midfield, the disposal of the youth players and inability to tactically adjust during a match to counter an opposition's successful approach to stagnating the attack
Plus, as has been discussed in other posts/threads, the Barcelona job is not a longterm one - even if Lucho still has hair, look at the difference in his pics from 3 years ago. The entorno wears them all out, even through & through Blaugrana coaches like Pep & Lucho
I credit Luis Enrique, he was already a club legend - more so now but it's time to breed new life into this Barcelona machine
Ye I completely agree. Barca were very average last night but they just had all the luck on the night with PSG allowing them to dominate the game and not putting up a fight.
Seems to me the problem is the crap signings that have failed to address the fading great midfield. Then that leaves you unable to have a viable Plan B.
Gomes was a crap signing, I had no idea what they were up to other than trolling Marca after they built him up as the better alternative to Pogba.
Crap signings, harder to discern who is to blame at a club like Barcelona with this board - coach, Robert, Barto or some combo of those 3. Surely Arda & Aleix were board election gimmick signings
I like Gomes and I believe you'll see a better version of him next season
Plan B is the eternal question to address with this squad but in general, I have never seen (Apart from Tata's tenure) Barca look as unprepared in as many matches in the past 10-15 years than they have under Luis Enrique. Moreover, it never sat well with me how naive he was tactically when there were often few surprises awaiting from the opposition. The youth neglect though is a serious issue that the next coach has to address, if this board supports it of course
I don't like it but I suspect the odds are that the next coach will be Valverde over say Sampaoli
It will definitely be Sampaoli because his work with Sevilla has been one step ahead of what Thomas Tuchel did by winning 3 consecutive Europa and landing a job at PSG. Sampaoli can do one better and land the Barca job.
I agree with the part that Pep is better than Enrique. The thing is Enrique is not a tactical manager like Pep, he plays simple and basic football, they are more direct for example. They have struggled this year but in the past two years they were dominate on games as much as Pep`s team, just a different way. I mean sure MSN have been the reason for their success but they have coach who is playing the team in a way that they get the best of each other. You can`t compare him to Grant, his success has been consistent. For me he`s been kind of like del Bosque or Ancelotti. This Barca won`t be remembered as a great tactical team but they have been very successful, you have to give him credit for that
There's the MSN factor obviously but Lucho deserves credit for getting them to press again like under Pep and I'd argue that at times this Barcelona more closely resembles the sort of player Luis Enrique was
In what universe did Tuchel manage Sevilla and win 3 Europa leagues? I think you mean Emery who's team just lost 6-1.
The only coaches that use positional play at any hight level today are Tuchel and Sarri. Sarri is the closest to Lord Cruijffs philosphy bar Guardiola. He is a Cruijffista without ever being coached by him.
Lord Cruijff?
Julian Nagelsmann is highly influenced by Guardiola's ideas and is tactically more oriented compared to Tuchel in my opinion. But then again i will say lets not get too carried away with the positional play. Its a great concept but its not the only one. I think Barca became too dependent on that system because of the success they had with it and now its hard for them as a club to try a different one
You can talk about positional play and tactics all you want. Matter of fact is this: Bar the front 3, Barcelona's team is good but certainly not extraordinary anymore. When Guardiola was there Barcelona had at least 4 all-time great players across all three lines on the pitch at their absolut physical peak in Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Alves and top 3 players in every other position bar goalkeeper.
Dani Alves vs. Sergi Roberto.
Prime Iniesta vs. Iniesta in his 30s.
Xavi vs. Rakitic/Gomes/Rafinha/Turan.
Puyol vs. Umtiti/Mascherano.
Abidal vs. Alba.
You could also argue that Messi was a lot more explosive, hungry and dangerous, even if the passing side of his game has matured.
It's no contest.
And while this team has Suarez and Neymar - Eto'o, Henry, Ibrahimovich and David Villa weren't exactly nobodies.
So this makes it all the more remarkable that Luis Enrique's team does it what does.
Dani Alves vs. Sergi Roberto.
Prime Iniesta vs. Iniesta in his 30s.
Xavi vs. Rakitic/Gomes/Rafinha/Turan.
Puyol vs. Umtiti/Mascherano.
Abidal vs. Alba.
You could also argue that Messi was a lot more explosive, hungry and dangerous, even if the passing side of his game has matured.
It's no contest.
And while this team has Suarez and Neymar - Eto'o, Henry, Ibrahimovich and David Villa weren't exactly nobodies.
So this makes it all the more remarkable that Luis Enrique's team does it what does.
What in Gods name are you talking about?
Before this decade of dominance they only had the dream team. The fact you include Maradonna who had a forgetful spell there should give you a hint about the nonsense in your post.
Rewriting the Ronaldinho history is ridiculous as well. Beckham turned them down and they lost out on Dinho before Kenyan went back on his word. That is from Ronaldinho and PSG themselves.
Barca aren't signing players the rest of us can't sign. Their whole success is built in who they brought through, not the elite of the elite players you think they sign.
It is the best concept for me and creates dominance like no other tactical concept. Big clubs cannot be sitting back like provincial Italian side and relying on counter attacking. That is for small teams. A big team should always aspire to be the protagonists. Barcelona have actually done well when theit conviction in Cruijffs ideology was strengthened.
@Cait Sith
Sarri has already shown that you can play a high level position game with his Napoli midfield comprising of Zielinski Hamsik and Diawara. You think Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic can't reproduce something similar?
The concept is not being applied well in any formeans Enrique relies on his forwards. The team plays like Real Madrid. Just waiting for errors and counter attacking. It is a very talented team that is poorly coach.
Why are the central midfielder always a pitch width apart? Why does Busquets have so much space to defend?
The team can't even use lavolpiana exit effectively because he uses the side backs in the build up and the team constantly pass the ball in a U shape, utter sacrilege of Cruijffism.
Messi has to drop deep every game because he cannot get a clean ball and Neymar sometimes receives the ball with his back to goal in his own half! The team is terribly coached. It's got nothing to do wit the midfield. Do you think the midfield of Silva KDB and Yaya Toure is superior to the current Bacelona midfield? The wingers there receive the ball in one vs one situatons in one game than Neymar does in like 3 for Barcelona.
Barcelona concede so many clear cut chances per game because if Enriques coaching. Leganes created 4 clear cut chances and more than Barcelona when they faced off agains each other. Leganes....
I will never forget when Barcelona had all their men behind the ball against Valencia in their treble winning season, plating like a small team and Valencia dominated them and in the Camp Nou and should have won the game.
Enrique isn't maximising the talent of the team and if Pep was still the coach Barcelona would never play like a small team. What was Xavi doing in Bacelonas midfield in Rijkaards last season? He was still the same player but the platform that he was used in didn't maximise his talents.
You can't be having a midfield as unathletic as Barcelonas be covering so much season space every game. It makes no sense logically. Kante is the perfect Enrique midfielder.
I don't know what you are on about. I was referring to Barcelonas lack of success from a historical context despite them having some of the best players in history playing for them. I said it is because the management is poisonous and keep straying from Cruijffs ideals and they are not consistent because of all the politics.
As of now the only thing United offer over Barcelona is perhaps more money because Barcelona can't afford any more high wages. If a top player had a chance to choose between Manchester United and Barcelona and could be the star player there I no competition. Barcelona are a bigger club, the City is better and the women are much better looking. The only thing United has to offer is wages. They play awful football and don't guarantee you trophies.
Hardly Lucho's fault. The fact is that Barça's ability to lure good players is marred by the MSN wages, and Messi is always renewing his contract every 2 years (and asking for another rise now). No matter the coach, is going to get worse. Many people have suggested that they should sell one of the front 3 if they want to be consistent across all areas
Ah so Barca were mismanaged for 100 odd years.
Gotcha.
Barca are a modern superclub. They haven't got this rich and varied history that puts them in the elite bracket until the 90s.
Even then it was with 1 specific side.
Rabbiting on about Barca's history of always having signing the best players while quoting 3 names, 1 who didn't even sign for them is beyond ridiculous.
There's nothing wrong with having a modern history, hell the last 25 years is more than enough. Theres no need to try and stretch it
Even your Beckham / Ronaldinho point is a misinformed reach tbh. You're trying too hard
Yes they were. I brought up Di Stefano because they shold have signed him but they shot themselves in the foot by playing hardball and essentially helped Madrid on their road to becoming the biggest club in all of football history. They had a very strong victim mentality.
They were bigger than Madrid and had thier last great team before Cruijff, Barcelona of the six cups. Their management were invited to attend the iaugural European Cup but they declined because they said it was a useless tournament, Madrid entered and won the first 5 and that started their myth.
I mentioned Cruijff and Maradona because they are part of the 5 kings of football alongside Di Stefano, Pele and Messi. Barcelona should have had 4 of those 5 kings. They messed up and renegaded in the deal to keep Ronaldo De lima and sold him to inter.
They were on the verge of bankruptcy before Laporta took over from years of bad financial mismanagement, something that is still around with the Neymar case point.
My point was the best football players n history and ballon dor winners played for them and the return on trophies is pathetic pre Cruijff because of the management and mentality of the club.
Lord Cruijff Cruijff's ideals Lucho is a traitor
Lord Cruijff Cruijff's ideals Lucho is a traitor
Lord Cruijff Cruijff's ideals Lucho is a traitor
ffs guys, give Enrique a break. He mightn't be a stereotypical Barcelona coach. But he is a good one, who has made full use of Barcelona's front 3 giving the players more freedom
Lord Cruijff Cruijff's ideals Lucho is a traitor
Lord Cruijff Cruijff's ideals Lucho is a traitor
ffs guys, give Enrique a break. He mightn't be a stereotypical Barcelona coach. But he is a good one, who has made full use of Barcelona's front 3 giving the players more freedom
uh, actually...Kubala, Johan, Neeskens, Diego, Ronaldo, Romario, Laudrup, Hristo, Dinho, Eto'o, Riquelme, Rivaldo....barcelona always signed the biggest stars in the game, or tried to. The only reason they didn't during Pep's reign is because their academy produced an outrageous generation. Still, Dani Alves, Abidal, Yaya, Villa, Zlatan, Alexis...all big signings. Add in cesc and pique, products of their academy they had to buy back.
Also, for all that they hadn't won the EC until the Johan's Dream Team, they were very much a big club, what with having won 3 CWC and 3 Fairs Cups...of course they weren't on the same level as madrid or liverpool before Cruijff, but they were the second biggest club in Spain, they were very much a big club