Ludo Draft SF: Onenil vs 2mufc0

Who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
Gio said:
Like Beckham's role here in terms of the tactical instructions. Looks too high on the team-sheet which is more about presentational symmetry in the attack, but in the game he'd find himself parked alongside Keane and Matthaus in a very functional role that plays to his strengths releasing Shevchenko on the counter or unfurling a diagonal into Rivaldo's path.
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It's also the 4-3-3 for me. If I'd put Becks in a 4-3-3 it would be in midfield rather than wide forward. If he's parked alongside Keane and Matthaus it makes it less difficult for the opposition to counter only Sheva and Rivaldo who are the primarily attacking sources. Against 2 GOAT full backs, GOAT defender in Beckenbauer and well protected core with three highly dynamic midfielders to counter Matthaus and Keane and Luisito in deep position it would be hard to break down that onenil side.

Most of the time they will be outnumbered and would not find much space. If there was RW instead of Becks who would offer significant attacking threat and goalscoring output this could be very close.

In short Becks doesn't provide the attacking outlet his team needs and whilst his industry is positive, Matthaus doesn't really need this defensive cover considering he has Keane next to him and Luisito behind him. Matthaus was able to produce a lot in the attacking phase for Inter whilst having to also man mark no other than Maradona. Against 4-3-3 where he's in a bit of a free role out of the other 3, he would have no issues filling the gaps he left rather quickly.
 
Weirdly enough, I can see 2mufc0's team getting the result here. Sheva is really one of the perfect counter-attacking strikers, and when 2mufc0's team will form a defensive shape, there's no going through that. Of course Cruyff & co have enough individual quality to overturn any game, but in this case I've went with my guts (not that it would matter in the end).

It's weird how a little tactical tweak can change the whole team — I wasn't a fan of 2mufc0's teams from the first rounds.
 
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2mufc0 said:
They haven't specifically said it is a replica but there are many references to the Dutch style of play and historical partnerships of the players, so it's understood the main philosophy is the total football style.
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Just reread the thread, and I didn't find references prioritising the Dutch style over others - perhaps I've missed something or there was something in earlier rounds? From what I've seen, it's treated more as an unspecific Holland/Brazil/Germany hybrid, highlighting general compability of all players and some historic partnerships. But I agree with you that info on team tactics is vague, so I have to fill some blanks by myself.

My Germany 72 reference was meant as an example how a team can run on roughly similar principles, but without the specific division of work of totaalvoetbal. A quite dominant, positionally fluid passing system, and with Schwarzenbeck at CB. Looking at onenilvictus' line up (only 3 players from the two relevant Dutch teams), I'd rather expect a more generic style like that than the highly specialised totaalvoetbal one. But again, that's just me speculating.
2mufc0 said:
We will have to disagree regarding Schwarzenbeck, his lack of pace would be mercilessly exposed here, esp with balls pinged behind him.
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Not every defender in a high line (assuming there is one) has to be particularly fast, see Pique and Hummels - good reading of the game, quick reactions, good timing for picking up runs, and smart conduct in direct duels can prevent him from getting exposed. Schwarzenbeck had all of this, although there are certainly setups in which I wouldn't want to see him.

I'm also not sure if he was actually notably slow, because his somewhat cumbersome appearance has often been mistaken for his actual abilities (both regarding mobility and ball handling). I remember him having to make 1 on 1 recoveries frequently in the much more open 70s game, and usually succeeding at this. But I'd have to rewatch some games to take a closer look at this.
 
Synco said:
I'm also not sure if he was actually notably slow, because his somewhat cumbersome appearance has often been mistaken for his actual abilities (both regarding mobility and ball handling). I remember him having to make 1 on 1 recoveries frequently in the much more open 70s game, and usually succeeding at this. But I'd have to rewatch some games to take a closer look at this.
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I think the most obvious examples that come to mind are Blokhin and Rensenbrink (playing in a central role) tearing that Bayern's defence up with their pace and dribbling in 2 successive European Super Cups. Now Sheva is not as elegant in his dribbling as those two, but he is one of the most direct and smart strikers of all-time that has the pace and skill to exploit their relative weakness.

I've never rated that partnership as an all-time great one in the defensive sense. I'd probably have Beckenbauer somewhere close to Rio defensively (sound sacrilegious, but I rate Rio very highly and obviously Beckenbauer has skills of an all-time great midfielder as a bonus that elevates him a few levels above) and Schwarzenbeck was just a good defender who understood Der Kaiser's movement well.
 
@harms
All right, I'll keep your and @2mufc0's assessment in mind when I watch some more in the future. Bayern was a strange team in any case - defensively sound until 1973 or so, and then inconsistent and often leaky as hell, including downright collapses.

Beckenbauer/Rio comparison doesn't sound sacrilegious at all to me - I'm actually a bit surprised by it, as I would have thought Rio was the more complete center back.
 
2mufc0 said:
Anyway congrats @oneniltothearsenal @Invictus there's no coming back now so I forfeit the game so you guys can continue with the draft and to be honest I don't want to spend any more time on this game :lol:.

I knew it would be an uphill battle as you guys have a great team and not being able to reinforce even once hamstrung me severely thanks to Edgar's shite reinforcement rules.
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Cheers. You drafted great with the clogged 60s group and knocking out the favorite
 
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