I agree completely. But I'm starting to wonder whether this fluidity will ever happen, despite Van Gaal. This continental fluidity, which is necessery to be a CL contender nowadays, is about pass and move and making triangles. But players have to pass and move in the right direction, and they still don't get it. Di Maria didn't, Carrick didn't and Rooney didn't. Even a few counter attacks with only two players got wasted because of wrong movement, making the space and passing opportunity disappear. Triangles are even more complicated. One can't have fluidity with headless chickens, the manager can give them a clear framework, but they have to understand their part in it themselves, and I do not see many signs of understanding.
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I agree we were very poor transitioning from defence to midfield in the first few games. Blackett was very poor yet everyone seemed to say he was doing well (until the Leicester game anyway).
It is not the managers problem when the players are on the pitch. He can only do so much beforehand and for me, they didn't do what they were told to do within the first half an hour until we gradually got better. We gave the ball away cheaply including De Gea and we created our own problems. You can't legislate for that. LvG said himself in the post-match press conference he wasn't happy with the first half. Players have to adapt, that is up to them.
You're looking at it the wrong way. We won at a place where no other Premier League club has won in 15 months. There was probably a little bit of nervousness as well considering we've thrown points away at grounds this season but we won. Belief and confidence is needed before the expression can come back into our play.
Not a fan of the three at the back, but the most encouraging sign of late is that we clearly look like United again in the sense that we are made of strong stuff and are not seemingly accepting defeat. The defensive performances against Chelsea, City and much of yesterday was the good United. The performance yesterday was the United of old I think, particularly away at Arsenal.
SAF always played with 3 in the middle against arsenal and you saw yesterday why he did that . Fellaini and carrick were passengers in that first 25 minutes and we were lucky to not be 2 or 3 down .
All said we have to think that starting with blacket , McNair and shaw and tony in the back 5 it's no surprise we came under the cosh and we did well considering .
I'm i the only one that thinks rooney should be pushed up to 9 with rvp dropping to the bench to accommodate herrera , fellaini and carrick in the middle with adm given a free role . If van gaal can't get a tune out of Robin then nobody can . Van persies performances have been well under par and he can have no complaints being benched . 12 touches yesterday is un defendable IMO .
All said we have to think that starting with blacket , McNair and shaw and tony in the back 5 it's no surprise we came under the cosh and we did well considering .
I'm i the only one that thinks rooney should be pushed up to 9 with rvp dropping to the bench to accommodate herrera , fellaini and carrick in the middle with adm given a free role . If van gaal can't get a tune out of Robin then nobody can . Van persies performances have been well under par and he can have no complaints being benched . 12 touches yesterday is un defendable IMO .
I'm the opposite, I was dreading the idea of Blind and McNair as a centre back partnership against Crystal Palace with Valencia right back, Blind not a centre back, Valencia not a right back, McNair hardly played any elite football and thrown in the deep end from day one.
Then against Arsenal when he said in the press conference that Shaw is a doubt but he will be forced to play if he can due to lack of defenders I was even more concerned as he very well might have needed to come off.
As of now our entire first team defence (Rafael, Jones, Rojo, Shaw) and a sub in Evans are injured, this rarely happens but it's crazy, in both of those games the team seemed to be playing unnaturally but that was forced since his natural way is to outscore the opposition but that's not happening with our defence, he played it safe as it increased the chances of us getting six points and he did it.
We have shown this season lack of clinical finishing that is to say not being able to take enough of the chances we create but also we have shown our opponents need only a few chances to score therefore it would have been suicidal in my opinion playing the last two games in an open way as this pattern probably would have continued.
I just don't see what more he could have done, he hardly gave Palace a chance and looked to get a 1-0, he actually said something like the plan was to up the tempo after tiring the opposition out since that would surely lead to a goal, a defensive approach and also against Arsenal we just defended for our lives and got something on the counter, he required luck without a doubt but he set up to increase his chances of luck.
I don't get all the negativity here. Everyone harping about how lucky we were and how without DDG it would've been 5:0 at half time. Were we really that lucky? Arsenal was on top for the first 25 minutes and so what - for all their domination they had only one clear cut chance, which Wilshire fecked up. The rest were shots from 20 yards or from the byline. I don't think DDG made any superb save the whole game - all the shots were right at him.
Our first and Arsenal's were both freak goals, so things are pretty even there, but lets count the clear cut chances during the game - Wilshire's miss, Rooney's goal, ADM's miss, Smallings's miss and Rooney's false offside, which would've put him one on one with the keeper. Out of the 5 clear cut chances one was Arsenal's and four ours. Add to that the fact there should've been a red card for the hard man Wilshire and the "we were lucky" line gets even more mindboggling. If anything Arsenal was the luckier team.
Come on, stop the negativity and enjoy - with a decimated squad we just beat a direct rival, away from home, after they've been 15 months unbeaten, to put us back in top 4. LVG deserves big kudos for it!
Our first and Arsenal's were both freak goals, so things are pretty even there, but lets count the clear cut chances during the game - Wilshire's miss, Rooney's goal, ADM's miss, Smallings's miss and Rooney's false offside, which would've put him one on one with the keeper. Out of the 5 clear cut chances one was Arsenal's and four ours. Add to that the fact there should've been a red card for the hard man Wilshire and the "we were lucky" line gets even more mindboggling. If anything Arsenal was the luckier team.
Come on, stop the negativity and enjoy - with a decimated squad we just beat a direct rival, away from home, after they've been 15 months unbeaten, to put us back in top 4. LVG deserves big kudos for it!
Calm down I didn't criticise his defending, I said his distribution of the ball from the back to the midfield has been poor, I don't see how anyone can argue that. He resorts to hoofing it up field most of the time or is panicked into an awakward back pass. Blind is very useful because he makes himself available for a simple pass from the defense all the time, unfortunately he didn't play and it showed.
After winning away to Arsenal with Valencia, Young, McNesta and Blackett in our back line, I can't help but think if we can get Jones and Rafael back and Falcao starts to produce in place of RvP then we will go on a real good run and top 3 shouldn't be out of the question.
It's a big if though. fecking injuries.
It's a big if though. fecking injuries.
Positives - with a injury struck squad we beat a rival
- Rooney continues decent scoring form
- Fellaini had a reasonably good game again
- De Gea was brilliant
- Young did well when he came on
- LVG - Strategically counter attacks were quick and worked
- We're now top 4 after a difficult run - Huge positive
Negatives - Positionally we were terrible for 30 mins, and in the last 15 mins how we left so much space in midfield I'll never know, Arsenal played one square ball when we were theoretically backs to the wall but they still had 10 yards of space 30 yards from our goal. Shape wise we still need a lot of work
- RVP poor run of form continues
- Back line looked slow at times and got found out a bit
- First half still looked slow in attack when got to final third had no creativity
- Our second goal was our first shot on goal (tells a bit of a story)
- LVG still hasnt enforced a philosophy from this performance players looked all over the place. And still slightly unsure what he's looking for other than possession, but this wasnt it.
Hopefully the team builds from here, but I wouldnt say this is the type of performance I want us to pursue against rivals, cos it could have been painful if Arsenal took some chances, obviously our fans would say it could have easily been 3-0 to us too. Overall 3 pts and we move on, and hope injuries start to clear.
- Rooney continues decent scoring form
- Fellaini had a reasonably good game again
- De Gea was brilliant
- Young did well when he came on
- LVG - Strategically counter attacks were quick and worked
- We're now top 4 after a difficult run - Huge positive
Negatives - Positionally we were terrible for 30 mins, and in the last 15 mins how we left so much space in midfield I'll never know, Arsenal played one square ball when we were theoretically backs to the wall but they still had 10 yards of space 30 yards from our goal. Shape wise we still need a lot of work
- RVP poor run of form continues
- Back line looked slow at times and got found out a bit
- First half still looked slow in attack when got to final third had no creativity
- Our second goal was our first shot on goal (tells a bit of a story)
- LVG still hasnt enforced a philosophy from this performance players looked all over the place. And still slightly unsure what he's looking for other than possession, but this wasnt it.
Hopefully the team builds from here, but I wouldnt say this is the type of performance I want us to pursue against rivals, cos it could have been painful if Arsenal took some chances, obviously our fans would say it could have easily been 3-0 to us too. Overall 3 pts and we move on, and hope injuries start to clear.
Did anyone notice after the first goal, he celebrated for literally a few seconds then immediately started taking notes?
I wonder what notes he could possibly take from a goal like that.
I wonder what notes he could possibly take from a goal like that.
I reckon he was just doing a sudoku or something.
Note to shelf: Ish good when de opposhishun defender ish on ground. Thish ish my philoshophy.
"Nov 22 '14 - A Valencia cross results in a goal. I repeat, a Valencia cross results in a goal. I cannae believe it!"
Holy shit a Valencia cross actually worked.Did anyone notice after the first goal, he celebrated for literally a few seconds then immediately started taking notes?
I wonder what notes he could possibly take from a goal like that.
"FUCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK"
He is right about the confidence on the ball, our players are good technically but they are afraid of the ball, or maybe they are afraid of losing the ball and being blamed for it.
I don't know how you instill confidence or a little bit of cockiness in players.
I don't know how you instill confidence or a little bit of cockiness in players.
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Your love for Dave isn't going to disappear anytime soon, is it?
I definitely agree that the side has regained self belief under LvG, we look mentally tougher this season (Leicester capitulation aside). He's forgone the promise of attractive, attacking football though, at the start of the season we were very exciting to watch but I understand points on the board are all he can think about right now, so functionality has replaced flair for the time being.
That will come if we put together a run of wins. Nothing succeeds like success and all that. The big IF is injuries more than quality of players. If our squad remains fully fit, we have options of not only a strong first XI matching both City and Chelsea but enough options on bench to change things formation and tactics wise when the game is not going according to plan.
Exactly. All I see is this talk of how we were lucky. feck that. First 20-30 minutes we were shite, we never got going, I agree. But after that, arsenal did nothing other then shots from range, while we were counter attacking on them at will and just slightly better passes at times and we could've won that more comfortably. On the whole we had much better chances then they did, with smallings miss off a corner, di marias miss, our 2 goals, and other moments where we were 2 v 1.
People criticizing the formation - what do you want him to do? Play the diamond and have Blackett and Valencia isolated at fullback against sanchez and Chamberlain? We would get hammered. If you don't know, all of our fullbacks and all but smalling for center backs are injured. If you think we can get some sort of solid team out of that, you're out of your mind. With the players we had, we did as well as anyone could have hoped for. The last time we won a game away to a team that finished in the top 8 last season was in December of 2012, until yesterday. It's almost as if people expected us to dominate possession and not concede any chances at the Emiates and anything less then a 3-0 win(which we should have got really) is unacceptable.
Someone saying they are furious at him after the last 2 games
You do know we won them both? The first, palace didn't have a sniff and never got close to our box pretty much, and we completely dominated and but for poor finishing, would've been a comfortable result. Then we won away to arsenal, the first time they lost at home since the opening day of last season. People really do love having a whinge on here, don't they?The negativity on the caf about everything this season has been ridiculous and lacking any sense of perspective on the reality of the situation, which is we are 4th despite having the worst run of injuries I can remember anyone ever having, while playing youth players in every game.
Exactly. Some muppets in here need a hard look at themselves.
Agreed. We were talking about it in work at lunch, and many found it astounding how we pulled a win with all the circumstances. Who cares though? We got 3 points away from home and we're 4th.
Getting that away win is definitely a monkey off our backs. The performance wasn't great, but that is down to injuries more than anything.
You forgot the make shift personnel we had in defense. Smalling, Blackett, McNair...I agree, but fair fecks LVG you've shut me up
I'm a huge fan of LVG but this was a smash and grab, not a defensive masterclass with counter attacking prowess. A defensive masterclass is giving nothing to the opposition, not giving them 3 gilt-edged opportunities that only their own dreadful finishing ruined.
Reading quotes in today's paper and he was taking the piss out of Monreal
"We knew Arsenal would attack and that we'd be left with Mertesacker and our friend, Monreal"
"We knew Arsenal would attack and that we'd be left with Mertesacker and our friend, Monreal"
Smalling isn't really make shift since he's likely to start most games, although you've got a point with the other two. Still, I'm not too much more confident when you add in Rojo, Evans etc.
Reading quotes in today's paper and he was taking the piss out of Monreal
"We knew Arsenal would attack and that we'd be left with Mertesacker and our friend, Monreal"
The way be says "our friend" all the time is easily my favourite thing about him!
Some people need to piss off and start supporting Real Sociedad...
Fourth place with all of our cockamaime injuries seems OK by me. He's been pragmatic in setting the team up given all of the line-up changes. No complaints.
One thing I have to give him huge credit for is the team spirit we've seen since the Leicester capitulation. We've shown a fantastic grinding, never-say-die spirit week in week out since then even if the football has declined in the absence of Herrera and the diamond formation.
Last minute equaliser at WBA having performed poorly. Last minute equaliser against a seemingly unbeatable Chelsea side after fighting hard all game. Digging in and performing really well after going down to 10 against City. Digging in after being under the cosh against Arsenal to escape to victory. We've shown amazing team spirit, something Moyes had sapped out of us. Credit to LVG.
Last minute equaliser at WBA having performed poorly. Last minute equaliser against a seemingly unbeatable Chelsea side after fighting hard all game. Digging in and performing really well after going down to 10 against City. Digging in after being under the cosh against Arsenal to escape to victory. We've shown amazing team spirit, something Moyes had sapped out of us. Credit to LVG.
Ronaldo tends to do that to a side.
Reading UWS this month, stories from the training ground are that everyone is loving it.
Apparently the players are loving the approach to training, the new ways of doing things and the atmosphere.
Might be a load of bollix and they're all secretly planning to break his legs but, gives hope after reading negative stories in fanzines from last year
He has been unlucky with injuries but I am pleased to see he has been pragmatic and is focusing on getting results rather than just trying to implement the philosophy at all costs which I think he was doing initially. By the end of the season I think he will have adapted and learnt from the league and that will affect how he reshapes the squad along with his philosophy of course.
I am intrigued to see how long he will stick with RVP as it looks like Rooney should be moved up front with either Mata, Herrera or Januzaj coming in or that Wilson should be given a chance (Falcao will hopefully be in the equation soon as well). We still look a long way off being a good side but if he can keep us in the top 4 he will have done a good job and we will have a great foundation to build on.
I am intrigued to see how long he will stick with RVP as it looks like Rooney should be moved up front with either Mata, Herrera or Januzaj coming in or that Wilson should be given a chance (Falcao will hopefully be in the equation soon as well). We still look a long way off being a good side but if he can keep us in the top 4 he will have done a good job and we will have a great foundation to build on.
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