How is that abuse? It's pretty much spot on. We need a commanding centre half desperately. We won't win the league with any combination of CB we have now.
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Pressure should begin to increase from now on if results don't improve.
First of all, this isn't a knee jerk reaction to todays match.
I don't know if I really believe in LVGs 'Philosophies'
It may work at other clubs, but we can't play like Barcelona for 2 reasons.
1. We don't have the players
2. This is the Prem, it wouldn't work here
We have gone such a long way from scoring goals like this:
Problem is, minus Di Maria we are a very slow team.
We Nullify Di Maria's pace as our build up play is so slow. When he receives the ball, he has 10 players in front of him to break down. At Real Madrid, the build up was so much quicker, that he had gaps to run into
Aguero shows today that pace up front is very troublesome, but look around our attack and you don't see it. Rooney, RVP and Falcao are not quick, and the ball needs to be put in front of goal for them, rather than creating their own chances on a regular basis.
The defence is another issue for another day
TBH, that was a special counter where all the stars aligned. Those are one offs in any situation.
You don't think we need a commanding centre back who can stay fit?
If we played them a couple of weeks ago we would have beaten them as well. I hate playing these type of teams early in the season, when their spirits are still up, before reality hits. Now is the time to play them. Don't like playing teams fighting relegation at the end either. Playing the teams who have nothing to play for is better.
I'm not saying I would fire him but the Glazers and Woodward having seen how we imploded when in the second half of last season will not be so patient as to allow him a full season given what we have already spent. I think there is a sentiment, or if there isn't then there bloody should be one, that we kept Moyes for three months too long and allowing Van Gaal the same leash could be tantamount to writing off another season. But if you don't do before the winter window then what's the point of doing it before the end of the season?So If he can't make injury-prone defenders that Fergie left stay fit, he'll be gone in 2 months?
Back to your question, it's not his fault that these players are fecking sick notes but he won't survive this run of form if it continues into Christmas. Unfair but that's the world we live in. The financial reality of this club makes it imperative that our one season out of the CL remains just that.
Exactly. Even against City there were a couple of blistering counters that relied on that final ball being inch perfect like it was in the above video. It's not as if counter-attacking has been coached out of our game or anything like that.
True, I don't expect to see goals like that every match, but it is so evident in our play that we don't play quick football.
When we win the ball back, we happily play it around the back one or two passes, which gives the opposition time to get back, and get organised, and this is the problem, and it is happening so often every match.
By the time we go forward, we have made it very hard for ourselves to break the opposition down.
When we win the ball back, we need to play positive and direct football. Lets pass it forward and take out 3 or 4 of their players by the time we enter their half. Lets see some gaps in their play that we can work in.
Then who would manage us if we sack LvG?
Until the red card it was the best representation we've had of Van Gaals philosophy against a pressing and quality side.
We were tactically disciplined for the most part (I know they broke through twice) with patient build up play and intelligent recycling of possession. It's not easy to do that to City at home, we reduced them to booting it down the wings for the most part. Fortunately for them there's probably no striker in the world who you would give that striking role to than Aguero who still managed to make them look a very dangerous outfit despite our control.
We were tactically disciplined for the most part (I know they broke through twice) with patient build up play and intelligent recycling of possession. It's not easy to do that to City at home, we reduced them to booting it down the wings for the most part. Fortunately for them there's probably no striker in the world who you would give that striking role to than Aguero who still managed to make them look a very dangerous outfit despite our control.
We're not gonna sack van Gaal. If we don't finish 4th then the damage will have been done and he should be given another year to correct it. If van Gaal, a hugely successful, innovative and experienced coach, can't get it right, then I don't think anyone can. Seriously.
No chance, the performance against Chelsea was far and away better and more tactically disciplined than what we saw today.
City were there for the taking and we threw it away.
I wouldn't really call it booting it down the wings. One frustrating thing today for me was, how narrow we played. We let them have the wings, and gave up so many open areas for them to exploit. I didn't like that at all.
Yeah you could say that, he was dropped but its understandable, we needed a more physical presence in the middle in the last 2 games and to an extent Fellaini provided that. Hopefully we will get to see Herrera in the next 2 games as Fellaini physical presence will not be required and I hope that Rooney will play behind RVP and Herrera deeper alongside Blind in a 4231 formation. Its inevitable IMO that we will play with the 4231 formation, the sooner LVG applies this the better.
Everyone has dropped points against dross this season, hence why if we would've won that game we would've been just 1 point behind City. I've not said we are perfect, I was merely responding to your implication that we aren't any better than we were under Moyes, picking stats and ignoring mitigating circumstances.
Yet we are the team with second most crosses per game and second most long balls per game.
If we find ourselves still around 10th by christmas people will still be saying he warned us about this. Even though the objective clearly is to get into top 4.
In some sense perhaps. But every player who pressed today (well, first half hour), someone dropped in and covered their space. In past weeks a big problem has been pressing and leaving huge gaps for the opposition to exploit, but all over the pitch today we had players covering for others and closing off space intelligently. I felt like everyone was taking some accountability off the ball.
I can't understand people not seeing an improvement. We got thrashed in this fixture last year, this year we held our own and lost by a goal.
We're really close. It takes time when you buy so many players at once. I don't see any reason we can't go on a winning run now.
We're really close. It takes time when you buy so many players at once. I don't see any reason we can't go on a winning run now.
I actually think we pressed worse today than in the Chelsea game. And I think Chelsea are a way better side at the moment.
After the first 15 minutes today I felt our shape and possession was poor in comparison to the Chelsea match.
Get me right, I am not advocating for his head but if we are still in a bad place by December, he will get it. We are not the same club that sat idly watching the Moyes demolition job in full swing. And unlike Moyes LVG doesn't have brigade of media hacks shielding him, fail to win against Palace and they will start to smell blood.
Our performance there with 11 men last season was far worse.
The improvement is obvious, I just think the people who can't see it, don't want to.
This is what I'm seeing as well. I think its part of the philosophy. I call it pseudo tiki taka. Its like we dont attack for the sake of attacking,picking our spots seems to be the method. I'm not concerned by this like you may be,not yet anyway. Time will tell.
Spending a shit load does not guarantee you anything - See City's spending right up until 2012.
Fact remains, we had to spend that kind of money to speed up this rebuilding job. And believe me, this is exactly what it is!
This isn't some, 2003-2006 job, where we still had Giggs, Scholes, Keane, RVN and Neville, this is a proper rebuilding job, where we had to replace three vital players, a bunch of no hopers who are happy to sit on their arse and some extremely below average players.
Even now, we still need to keep rebuilding the defence, we still need to add to the midfield and we still need to get Falcao fit and raring to go. This will take another year or so. And while the table doesn't lie, you only have to compare that performance today to last year's to see the difference.
1-0 down to the champions, away from home, 10 men for 50+ minutes, giving it a right go until the very end and with two teenagers, a winger(who is mostly shit anyways) and a midfielder in defence. All you have to do is look at the clowns, shitting themselves until the final whistle to realise the difference.
It's a slow process but, some of these defenders need to go. Sorry but, Jones and Smalling, it's ridiculous at this stage with their injuries and even when they do start, nearly every attack from the opposition, they have a massive mistake in them just waiting to happen. People can go on about potential but Smalling is 25!! Evans is what? 27?....That needs to be addressed and at the first chance we get.
We will get there and if anything, you can see from performances and the body language of the players that it's slowly turning around. And also, we are not seeing the destruction of Manchester United like we were last season.
I'm as impatient as the next person but, we are just gonna have to tough it out and wait.
This isn't last year, where we all saw the shit hitting the fan on a bloody daily basis.
Fact remains, we had to spend that kind of money to speed up this rebuilding job. And believe me, this is exactly what it is!
This isn't some, 2003-2006 job, where we still had Giggs, Scholes, Keane, RVN and Neville, this is a proper rebuilding job, where we had to replace three vital players, a bunch of no hopers who are happy to sit on their arse and some extremely below average players.
Even now, we still need to keep rebuilding the defence, we still need to add to the midfield and we still need to get Falcao fit and raring to go. This will take another year or so. And while the table doesn't lie, you only have to compare that performance today to last year's to see the difference.
1-0 down to the champions, away from home, 10 men for 50+ minutes, giving it a right go until the very end and with two teenagers, a winger(who is mostly shit anyways) and a midfielder in defence. All you have to do is look at the clowns, shitting themselves until the final whistle to realise the difference.
It's a slow process but, some of these defenders need to go. Sorry but, Jones and Smalling, it's ridiculous at this stage with their injuries and even when they do start, nearly every attack from the opposition, they have a massive mistake in them just waiting to happen. People can go on about potential but Smalling is 25!! Evans is what? 27?....That needs to be addressed and at the first chance we get.
We will get there and if anything, you can see from performances and the body language of the players that it's slowly turning around. And also, we are not seeing the destruction of Manchester United like we were last season.
I'm as impatient as the next person but, we are just gonna have to tough it out and wait.
This isn't last year, where we all saw the shit hitting the fan on a bloody daily basis.
I think you're right that if we lose that match we might start to see the first articles speculating about his position. But he'll have a bit longer before the pressure really starts to build. Still I don't think it'll get to that. We've got those two horrible fixtures out the way now, I think we can start racking up some points now. Including against Arsenal.
Yeah - I think you're right. Sort of. Still don't trust Woody or our owners in that regard, but unless they're utterly stupid they won't fire him simply for missing out on top four. There may be valid reasons for missing out. And the question above all questions is who the feck would we get in that would be any better?
Of course we do, but given the circumstances our defence has had to play under we should maybe lay off them a little. We have only conceded four more goals than Chelsea this season, a team that have had more or less a consistent back four for the entire season. We have only had the privilege of playing the same back four for two games this season, two, next week will probably be the same, in fact it will most likely stay that way until we get all our injured players back.
Evans, Smalling and Jones have all come into criticism this season for being injured, yes it’s very frustrating and it needs addressed but I’m sick of reading some of the shite that’s posted in here. I’ll say it again, our attacking players have been a bigger let down this season, one goal LESS than last season, yet some are lavishing praise on them, it’s crazy.
I'm amazed how few people get this. Our last three games have been characterised far more by a failure to create enough chances than the sort of catastrophic defending that has umpteen threads calling for Van Gaal to sack every defender at the club.
Smalling was an idiot today but his disciplinary record is excellent and we've actually been defending quite well since the Leicester debacle. Despite yet more fecking injuries.
We really need to improve our attacking football though. Something is badly wrong when we've players like Van Persie, Rooney, Di Maria, Mata and Januzaj on the pitch and our most potent attacking threat is Marouane fecking Fellaini.
I think if you're going to use Van Persie as a lone man, someone who lacks that dynamism of Falcao or even Welbeck then you need people running beyond. We aren't doing that, ever.
I guess you're right re- the attacking players but isn't that what you get when you render two players in that department undroppable? Granted RVP did play well against Chelsea but prior to that his lack of movement really cost us in a few games and he has been at his wasteful worst! It's unfortunate that Falcao is injured, Rooney was suspended but in a few games we have gotten fewer goals than what our performances merited, even that Leicester debacle.
Relax guys, LvG is a notoriously slow starter with clubs in his first year. In his first season with Munich, they were floundering around mid table in November and they won the title that season. Obviously we're not getting the results we want but despite that we are only 4 points from 4th. I also expect Southampton and West Ham to come back to Earth at some point.
The problem with that is City were a lot better then. They have their own issues right now. It's not really a fair comparison.
City of last season would have destroyed us today, especially with the sending off.
Disagree with this. Van Gaal is Woodward's man, we, and more importantly, Ed, knew what we were getting when we employed him and the changes he is making will go a long way in restoring the positive way we should play football. Unless we went on some inconceivably horrendous run of games, or the players lose faith altogether, then we'll stick with Van Gaal whether or not we finish inside the top four this season.
We can do without the Champions League for another season. Plus we're in a unique position in that our players will be in no rush to leave if we do. Our best players are on incredible wages and many of the others will only go on to make less money elsewhere, at a smaller club, with less of a pull than United. Many will leave with damaged reputations.
The media won't impact upon our decision making. I absolutely believe that the entire club, from top to bottom, are behind what Van Gaal is trying to do here, and given further spending in the next two transfer windows, which will happen, we'll benefit immensely from that in the coming years.
What we can't do is go from manager to manager year to year.
Yes City are nowhere near as good as they was last season, but a lot are forgetting we should have given away 3 penalties and had another player sent off...
Good points here. Our attackers should be doing more, definitely.
If you want to think about what City might do to us after a first half sending off you should think back to the year before last.
Yes, City missed Silva but there was a world of difference in our level of performance (especially 11 vs 11) comparing today with previous seasons. It's so obvious I don't know how or why anyone can't see it.
I thought the fact that Van Persie came off today was very encouraging in that regard. I think he had a decent game to be fair, and it wasn't easy plying a lone furrow after the sending off. But it was nice to see that Van Persie's supposed untouchable status is not so and if LVG believes he is the cause of what I agree has been some fairly turgid attacking play recently (although I thought we actually did well against Chelsea) then he will go.
I think the real problem is how slowly Januzaj plays though tbh.
Our attackers aren't able to sustain any period of attacking pressure, which is bizarre. There are glimpses of good attacking moves but then the midfield starts putting a few passes and things start to crumble.
Maybe it is the new players all getting to know each other and it needs a bit more time but really they should deliver more. Really think our best football will come having a midfield three of Herrera Blind and Carrick to keep possession and sweep up, the way things are. Mata and Van Persie have been the most disappointing, Di Maria makes the odd terrible pass as well but he doesnt hide away to be fair. Januzaj seems to have regressed a tad as well.
Maybe it is the new players all getting to know each other and it needs a bit more time but really they should deliver more. Really think our best football will come having a midfield three of Herrera Blind and Carrick to keep possession and sweep up, the way things are. Mata and Van Persie have been the most disappointing, Di Maria makes the odd terrible pass as well but he doesnt hide away to be fair. Januzaj seems to have regressed a tad as well.
I think our biggest problem is being able to have the balance to get forward and defend. I don't feel we can do both at the same time yet. If we are a threat going forward chances are the defence is too exposed and we are liable to getting opened up, if we are more solid defensively it ends up meaning that we don't have enough going forward.
I think 4-3-3 is our best formation.
We have a lot of players but and many different options, but to get the best out of the team some big names need to be on the bench. At this time Falcao is better and more effect than RVP. In midfield Blind must start, then it's Herrera who has to take more responsibility defensively and support Blind. The point of our 3 midfielders should be Rooney or Di Maria.
Then Januzaj on one wing and one of either Rooney or Di Maria out wide. How Herrera does in the engine room is key, Felliani does a job and gets stuck in but on the ball he isn't the player that Ander is and that affects the team. But when Felliani plays bind is less exposed.
I think 4-3-3 is our best formation.
We have a lot of players but and many different options, but to get the best out of the team some big names need to be on the bench. At this time Falcao is better and more effect than RVP. In midfield Blind must start, then it's Herrera who has to take more responsibility defensively and support Blind. The point of our 3 midfielders should be Rooney or Di Maria.
Then Januzaj on one wing and one of either Rooney or Di Maria out wide. How Herrera does in the engine room is key, Felliani does a job and gets stuck in but on the ball he isn't the player that Ander is and that affects the team. But when Felliani plays bind is less exposed.
Van Persie has been fairly average all season and Di Maria and Januzaj have both become very ineffective for some reason. Which all ends up with us looking depressingly toothless. We can carry one or two attacking players that aren't on their game but not three of them.
Agreed. Was pleased about that myself.
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