Liverpool's inevitable q̶u̶a̶d̶r̶u̶p̶l̶e̶ tr̶i̶p̶l̶e̶ dibble/ The Hala Madrid Thread

NicolaSacco said:
Can you name a pro footballer in that 0.01% bracket who always scores though? You can pick someone with a straight run-up, a pause, a placed kick or a powered kick. You can pick someone on any wage. The fact that you won’t be able to name anyone who always scores with whatever technique should surely teach you that it’s not as simple as you say. If you’ve got evidence that a certain technique is associated with a higher success ratio then fair play to you but I just don’t think you’ll be able to do it. Shearer was one of the highest earners of his era, and usually blasted them. Beckham was one of the best set piece takers of his era too. They both missed penalties. It’s pure hindsight to associate the run up with a failure.
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So you really think it's a lottery? You do know that lottery wins is 1 in millions right?

There are unlucky miss (hitting the post, keeper got it right, slip)
There are stupid miss (ballooning shots, missing the mark, weak shot)

I don't expect footballers to be 100% successful with penalties, but the stupid miss are … well... stupid and avoidable.

I'd hazard a guess that a simple straight hard kick to one corner would beat fancy run up trying to outsmart the goalkeeper by a wide margin in every 100 shots.

PS : Find me a video of a rocket shot to the far corner being saved if you can.
 
A reminder that THE DOUBLE is
PL and CL/FA CUP
 
A reminder that THE TREBLE is
PL, CL and FA CUP
 
A reminder that THE QUADRUPLE is
PL, CL, FA CUP and Peanuts Cup
 
Sky1981 said:
So you really think it's a lottery? You do know that lottery wins is 1 in millions right?

There are unlucky miss (hitting the post, keeper got it right, slip)
There are stupid miss (ballooning shots, missing the mark, weak shot)

I don't expect footballers to be 100% successful with penalties, but the stupid miss are … well... stupid and avoidable.

I'd hazard a guess that a simple straight hard kick to one corner would beat fancy run up trying to outsmart the goalkeeper by a wide margin in every 100 shots.

PS : Find me a video of a rocket shot to the far corner being saved if you can.
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Finding an example of a rocket to whatever you mean by the ‘far corner’ (it’s a penalty, corners are equidistant) being saved doesn’t prove your point. What you’d find is examples of penalty takers *trying* to hit it hard into the corners and a proportion of them either skying the ball or hitting it wide. The only way to prove that one method is better than the other is by showing that you have a higher chance of success in one particular method, which might be true but which you haven’t showed.
 
Sky1981 said:
It's not easy for me, i'm not the 0.01% pro footballer earning hundreds of thousands of dollar weekly.

I get it mentality, fatigue, etc but you're paid to do wonders with football, getting shots on a target from a 12 yard should be a given. If you do funny funky runs, make sure you at least hit your target
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Hey man, all I know is - over the years I have seen the greatest players, highly trained penalty taker specialists fold under the pressure and miss, so that's what I am basing my judgement on. The "it's a lottery" tale is also not mine. Many pro footballers of world quality have said the same.
 
NewGlory said:
Thanking neuroscientists for the win is nuts :) Penalties are basically a gamble. Many things can tip the odds in your favor, one of them could have been whatever voodoo they did or didn't do but overblowing it is nuts
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Oh, no. Not this myth again. Penalties are not gamble ffs. That is biggest myth in football which always makes me angry.
If they are gamble how come;
1) that every team have two or three players who are designed penalty takers? If they are gamble (so you have 50:50 chance) then no matter who shoots, right? Ronaldo or Phil Jones, Bruno or De Gea, Cantona or Maguire...right?
2) that some gks are labelled as penalty experts and have good penalty saves ratio? What, they are luckiest gks in the world?
3) that Le Tissier, Balotelli, Mendieta, Bruno, Shearer have fantastic score in penalties? They are just lucky?
 
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Andycoleno9 said:
Oh, no. Not this myth again. Penalties are not gamble ffs. That is biggest myth in football which always makes me angry.
If they are gamble how come;
1) that every team have two or three players who are designed penalty takers? If they are gamble (so you have 50:50 chance) then no matter who shoots, right? Ronaldo or Phil Jones, Bruno or De Gea, Cantona or Maguire...right?
2) that some gks are labelled as penalty experts and have penalty saves ratio? What, they are luckiest gks in the world?
3) that Le Tissier, Balotelli, Mendieta, Bruno, Shearer have fantastic score in penalties? They are just lucky?
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That is not what is meant under "gamble". Definitely not 50/50! And definitely huge difference between Phil Jones or Ronaldo taking it.

What it means, is that even with a designated penalty taker, like Ronaldo or Bruno, who train on taking penalties ad infinitum, there is no guarantee they won't feck it up in a final, after playing 120 minutes. So when you add up all of the probabilities, of all players (at least 10 of them) – it becomes significantly more of a crapshoot, less about skill and more about chance than the rest of the game. Which is why everybody hates it.

The rest of the game is infinitely more about skill, whereas a highly skilled player can feck up a penalty and just like that - game over.

Remember how we lost Europa League final. All our outfield players scored! (Can't remember seeing that ever) but so did the players of our opposition and their goalkeeper, but De Gea missed. And that was the end of it. Do you want to calculate the probability of that outcome? There is not a neuroscientist in the world that can help with that crap.
 
Quadruple dream ended today.

Liverpool's draw with Spurs gave City the cushion of knowing they could afford one draw themselves. Either the Wolves/West Ham games were where they could activate that offering.

They'll breeze past Villa.
 
Sky1981 said:
So you really think it's a lottery? You do know that lottery wins is 1 in millions right?
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:rolleyes:

When people say penalties are a "lottery," they're not saying that the odds are comparable to that of winning the actual lottery. Come on, man. Why even try to make an argument like that?
 
Nero said:
Quadruple dream ended today.

Liverpool's draw with Spurs gave City the cushion of knowing they could afford one draw themselves. Either the Wolves/West Ham games were where they could activate that offering.

They'll breeze past Villa.
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I don’t think it changes much. I think we couldn’t claw back their goal difference regardless? As far as I’m aware at least. They’ve been putting 4 or 5 past teams the last few games. Even if they lost today we would still need them to drop points at villa. Which they won’t do because they know they need to win the game.
 
Isn’t it strange how they will probably go down as the consensus best English side ever if they win all four even though it’s not in their hands? Win their last 2 league games, beat Madrid and they’re the best English side ever if City drop points. But if City beat Villa they’re just another great team.
 
By the way, I've looked at the statistics. On average, forwards score about 76% of their penalties, defenders 74%, and fecking goalkeepers, who tend to take no more than maybe two or three penalties in their entire careers, score about 72% of penalties they take. That really says it all about how small a role things like skill and experience plays. Ronaldo, famed for his vast experience and being the main penalty taker for practically all of his career, scores about 83% of his. It's 7% more than literally the average forward across the sport. It really is a total lottery, and even the very best penalty takers only actually score marginally more than average. It's almost entirely blind luck, with skill making up the tiny margins.
 
Football is broke. Can't be bothered with this shit anymore. Any sport that brings so much happiness to those dribbling bin dipping inbreds is not for me.
 
Tavern in the town said:
Isn’t it strange how they will probably go down as the consensus best English side ever if they win all four even though it’s not in their hands? Win their last 2 league games, beat Madrid and they’re the best English side ever if City drop points. But if City beat Villa they’re just another great team.
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Fine margins in these arguments. If a couple of penalties had been different they could also be sat on feck all at the moment and be a bunch of nearlymen.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Oh, no. Not this myth again. Penalties are not gamble ffs. That is biggest myth in football which always makes me angry.
If they are gamble how come;
1) that every team have two or three players who are designed penalty takers? If they are gamble (so you have 50:50 chance) then no matter who shoots, right? Ronaldo or Phil Jones, Bruno or De Gea, Cantona or Maguire...right?
2) that some gks are labelled as penalty experts and have penalty saves ratio? What, they are luckiest gks in the world?
3) that Le Tissier, Balotelli, Mendieta, Bruno, Shearer have fantastic score in penalties? They are just lucky?
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Not the point you were making whatsoever, but Maguire does take a mean pen.
 
Offside said:
Fine margins in these arguments. If a couple of penalties had been different they could also be sat on feck all at the moment and be a bunch of nearlymen.
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Yep, it’s why I think focusing too much on achievements in these arguments is dumb. (Obviously you can’t just win nothing but you get my point.) Most people would have our treble winning team being our best ever team, whereas I’m probably in the minority for thinking we were better between 06/09. If it wasn’t for 2 minutes of absolute madness vs Bayern the common opinion would swing the other way.
 
Tavern in the town said:
Yep, it’s why I think focusing too much on achievements in these arguments is dumb. (Obviously you can’t just win nothing but you get my point.) Most people would have our treble winning team being our best ever team, whereas I’m probably in the minority for thinking we were better between 06/09. If it wasn’t for 2 minutes of absolute madness vs Bayern the common opinion would swing the other way.
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We won the 08 final on pens though?
 
It definitely feels inevitable after today. That missed Mahrez penalty will haunt City.
 
sugar_kane said:
If Liverpool do the quad they should make sure Ed Woodward gets his medals too, he’s played a massive part in them getting to this level in the past 10 years by having us miss out on Klopp, let about three key members of their squad sign for them unchallenged and ground our club down to the point where we gifted them 6 points without even a fight this season.
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Here here.
 
Sky1981 said:
So you really think it's a lottery? You do know that lottery wins is 1 in millions right?

There are unlucky miss (hitting the post, keeper got it right, slip)
There are stupid miss (ballooning shots, missing the mark, weak shot)

I don't expect footballers to be 100% successful with penalties, but the stupid miss are … well... stupid and avoidable.

I'd hazard a guess that a simple straight hard kick to one corner would beat fancy run up trying to outsmart the goalkeeper by a wide margin in every 100 shots.

PS : Find me a video of a rocket shot to the far corner being saved if you can.
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Odds are stacked against the keeper, I agree with you. Knew the little bastard was gonna miss as soon as I saw him step up.
 
Nero said:
Quadruple dream ended today.

Liverpool's draw with Spurs gave City the cushion of knowing they could afford one draw themselves. Either the Wolves/West Ham games were where they could activate that offering.

They'll breeze past Villa.
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Villa will get something.
 
Tavern in the town said:
Isn’t it strange how they will probably go down as the consensus best English side ever if they win all four even though it’s not in their hands? Win their last 2 league games, beat Madrid and they’re the best English side ever if City drop points. But if City beat Villa they’re just another great team.
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Luck is always a difference between good and great teams. United fans should know this after the '99 & '08 CL finals.
 
Can someone tell me the latest on Salah, Fabinho & VVD injuries? Nothing on Twitter except Klopp giving out vague statements.
 
tentan said:
So what's the

CL, FA CUP and LEAGUE CUP

called then?
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I don’t think Liverpool will beat Real but if that were the case, the name is: Mickey Mouse treble a la 2001 with Houllier.
 
Charrockero said:
I don’t think Liverpool will beat Real but if that were the case, the name is: Mickey Mouse treble a la 2001 with Houllier.
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How does winning a CL make it a Mickey Mouse anything? It’d be our 18-19 season with two trophies added on.
 
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