Lionel Messi

Status
Not open for further replies.
kouroux said:
I can't see another player catching them up in terms of performance/Stats unless there is a ridiculous drop from either of them. They're way too good and productive compared to the rest.
Click to expand...

Except that it's just not true. Give the penalty taking duties to Neymar and Benzema this season and (assuming they score the same amount of them) this is how it looks,

Messi, 27 goals in all comps (in 26 apps)
Neymar, 18 goals in all comps (in 22 apps)

Cristiano, 26 goals in all comps (in 30 apps)
Benzema, 24 goals in all comps (in 29 apps)


Also shows once more that Cristiano didn't find some magical new level, as the more significant factors that changed were his team's offensive performance (he has around the same % of his team's goals as in the last two seasons, which means they just scored more on the whole) and the fact that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of penalties so far compared to Barça which skews it a bit. If the trend I noticed in the La Liga thread holds that means Barça will get more pens in the 2nd half of the season.
 
Skorenzy said:
Except that it's just not true. Give the penalty taking duties to Neymar and Benzema this season and (assuming they score the same amount of them) this is how it looks,

Messi, 27 goals in all comps (in 26 apps)
Neymar, 18 goals in all comps (in 22 apps)

Cristiano, 26 goals in all comps (in 30 apps)
Benzema, 24 goals in all comps (in 29 apps)


Also shows once more that Cristiano didn't find some magical new level, as the more significant factors that changed were his team's offensive performance (he has around the same % of his team's goals as in the last two seasons, which means they just scored more on the whole) and the fact that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of penalties so far compared to Barça which skews it a bit. If the trend I noticed in the La Liga thread holds that means Barça will get more pens in the 2nd half of the season.
Click to expand...

The penalty responsibility will always be theirs (Messi and Ronaldo's) therefore they'll always have a bigger chance to retain their productivity in comparison to the other players. So chances to have any of their teammates outscoring them by the end of the season are very slim.
 
They're going to be caught up. Nothing lasts forever. Football always works in cycles. They will have the advantage of being top dogs in teams that are so much superior to their competition, but it's not going to be like this when Ronaldo is 35 and Messi 33. Sorry, but that isn't happening.
 
Skorenzy said:
Except that it's just not true. Give the penalty taking duties to Neymar and Benzema this season and (assuming they score the same amount of them) this is how it looks,

Messi, 27 goals in all comps (in 26 apps)
Neymar, 18 goals in all comps (in 22 apps)

Cristiano, 26 goals in all comps (in 30 apps)
Benzema, 24 goals in all comps (in 29 apps)


Also shows once more that Cristiano didn't find some magical new level, as the more significant factors that changed were his team's offensive performance (he has around the same % of his team's goals as in the last two seasons, which means they just scored more on the whole) and the fact that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of penalties so far compared to Barça which skews it a bit. If the trend I noticed in the La Liga thread holds that means Barça will get more pens in the 2nd half of the season.
Click to expand...
Definitely the case.
 
Cait Sith said:
Just dropping this here belatedly. A United game was on at the same time before Christmas so probably everyone has missed it.

Messi%20G2%20Cordoba.gif


Great touch. :)
Click to expand...

the day other player does something like that, then i will consider the posibility that there's a player that may compete with messi as the BITW
 
Marcosdeto said:
the day other player does something like that, then i will consider the posibility that there's a player that may compete with messi as the BITW
Click to expand...
Messi is the obviously the best but it's hardly as if other players can't pull off a touch like that.
 
Marcosdeto said:
the day other player does something like that, then i will consider the posibility that there's a player that may compete with messi as the BITW
Click to expand...

Nice stuff but thats a huge exaggeration based on that touch alone though.. Berbatov used to do that every other day...
 
come on guys, you know what i mean, players like messi that can do that one day, score a perfect hattrick the next and be top scorer of la liga are something you dont see twice in a lifetime
 
The guy is magic, its not even debatable who is the best in the world. He's a good but in front as well I don't even think it's close between them.
 
Marcosdeto said:
the day other player does something like that, then i will consider the posibility that there's a player that may compete with messi as the BITW
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that he hasn't been for over 2 years...
 
Cal? said:
Except for the fact that he hasn't been for over 2 years...
Click to expand...

Funny how the Ballon d'Or is proof of who is the best player in the world when it suits your agenda but for 4 years in a row it didn't.

If the Ballon d'Or is definitive proof in the Messi v Ronaldo debate then I'd ask what it says when Messi has more than Ronaldo despite being younger than him and having finished second to Ronaldo in both years you mention unlike Ronaldo who missed the top 3 entirely one season.
 
CLARiiON said:
He might be scoring with right-foot a lot, but I am sure he can't control the ball same way he did with his left foot. That control to take the ball down was ridiculous.

Click to expand...


Yea, great touch. I had posted the same goal few days back, though from a different angle.
 
Pink Moon said:
Funny how the Ballon d'Or is proof of who is the best player in the world when it suits your agenda but for 4 years in a row it didn't.

If the Ballon d'Or is definitive proof in the Messi v Ronaldo debate then I'd ask what it says when Messi has more than Ronaldo despite being younger than him and having finished second to Ronaldo in both years you mention unlike Ronaldo who missed the top 3 entirely one season.
Click to expand...
Funny how the Ballon D'Or was definitely proof when Messi kept winning despite not really deserving to in 2012 yet now he doesn't win it, it means nothing?
 
Cal? said:
Funny how the Ballon D'Or was definitely proof when Messi kept winning despite not really deserving to in 2012 yet now he doesn't win it, it means nothing?
Click to expand...
Didn't he come off the back of a CL and league winning campaign? He was the standout player that year.
 
Vialli_92 said:
Didn't he come off the back of a CL and league winning campaign? He was the standout player that year.
Click to expand...
Didn't Xavi and Iniesta both do that AND WON the World Cup rather than getting completely blown away?
 
Cal? said:
Didn't Xavi and Iniesta both do that AND WON the World Cup rather than getting completely blown away?
Click to expand...

Your best mate was "completely blown away" at the World Cup and you still think he should have won, so...

At least be consistent for god sake.
 
Cal? said:
Funny how the Ballon D'Or was definitely proof when Messi kept winning despite not really deserving to in 2012 yet now he doesn't win it, it means nothing?
Click to expand...

the large number of people who vote for him would suggest otherwise. If I remember correctly each year you you state Ronaldo should win it, including the years Messi won it comfortably, so why even debate it?

Imagine the tears if I posted something like this in another thread!
 
Snake Plissken said:
the large number of people who vote for him would suggest otherwise. If I remember correctly each year you you state Ronaldo should win it, including the years Messi won it comfortably, so why even debate it?

Imagine the tears if I posted something like this in another thread!
Click to expand...

Why bother? Cal is the single most obsessed poster on this site. We go through it every season several times - he just can't admit defeat or accept commonly held opinion.

Bless him.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Your best mate was "completely blown away" at the World Cup and you still think he should have won, so...

At least be consistent for god sake.
Click to expand...
THat's in a year without any standout candidates who won a lot of trophies like Xavi & Iniesta did in 2012.
 
Snake Plissken said:
the large number of people who vote for him would suggest otherwise. If I remember correctly each year you you state Ronaldo should win it, including the years Messi won it comfortably, so why even debate it?

Imagine the tears if I posted something like this in another thread!
Click to expand...
You probably think Messi should have won it this year... he made the WC final... sob sob...
 
Actually, scratch all that, Xavi & Iniesta won the Euro in 2012.

It was 2010 they won the WC.
 
Either the balon dor is definitive or not. You just used it to argue Ronaldo has been better for 2 years. That means messi is overall better in your eyes, surely. (Even though using an award to decide is laughable)

Messi is the best in the world. Noone can be as devastating in terms of end product and add as much got he general play as he does. His peak is unmatched by anyone I've seen. Ronaldhinio is Probably next in terms of top level but messi is still far ahead of him.
 
Cal? said:
You probably think Messi should have won it this year... he made the WC final... sob sob...
Click to expand...

Except I didn't, and I was heavily critical of some of Messi's displays last season so you don't really have an argument there.

Cal? said:
Actually, scratch all that, Xavi & Iniesta won the Euro in 2012.

It was 2010 they won the WC.
Click to expand...

Like one of the lads above said, at least be consistent. If the Euro's and the WC are vital then surely by your reckoning Ronaldo should have been nowhere near the Ballon D'or this year after his piss poor showing in Brazil? or was that late goal against Ghana enough to swing it?
 
Snake Plissken said:
Like one of the lads above said, at least be consistent. If the Euro's and the WC are vital then surely by your reckoning Ronaldo should have been nowhere near the Ballon D'or this year after his piss poor showing in Brazil? or was that late goal against Ghana enough to swing it?
Click to expand...

It obviously means a lot, otherwise Neuer wouldn't be anywhere near the top 3 in 2014. There was no other stand out candidate in 2014 who won a lot domestically and won the WC, therefore Ronaldo fully deserved it for last year.

However, in 2010, the same argument cannot be made.

Cal? said:
Actually, scratch all that, Xavi & Iniesta won the Euro in 2012.

It was 2010 they won the WC.
Click to expand...

ThierryHenry said:
... The year in which he scored 91 goals?
Click to expand...

I've already pointed out that I meant 2010. 2012 was probably his best year.
 
Cal? said:
It obviously means a lot, otherwise Neuer wouldn't be anywhere near the top 3 in 2014. There was no other stand out candidate in 2014 who won a lot domestically and won the WC, therefore Ronaldo fully deserved it for last year.

However, in 2010, the same argument cannot be made.
.
Click to expand...

But your previous statements about 2010 seems to suggest you think benefit should be given to the world cup winner. So let's give it to Neuer, plus he was outstanding for Bayern too all season.
 
Snake Plissken said:
But your previous statements about 2010 seems to suggest you think benefit should be given to the world cup winner. So let's give it to Neuer, plus he was outstanding for Bayern too all season.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how you got that impression, plus Neuer didn't look too clever against Real Madrid, did he? and the CL counts a lot more than domestic titles.
Vialli_92 said:
Didn't he come off the back of a CL and league winning campaign? He was the standout player that year.
Click to expand...

Cal? said:
Didn't Xavi and Iniesta both do that AND WON the World Cup rather than getting completely blown away?
Click to expand...

And I thought Messi would have won it if Argentina managed to bore their way to the WC.
 
Snake Plissken said:
of course it is. You're very selective in your criteria, basically as long as it benefits your favourite player it's fine :lol:
Click to expand...
Likewise most people in this thread seems to think dribbling and close control is the be all and end all for footballers. :lol:
 
Cal? said:
I'm not sure how you got that impression, plus Neuer didn't look too clever against Real Madrid, did he? and the CL counts a lot more than domestic titles.




And I thought Messi would have won it if Argentina managed to bore their way to the WC.
Click to expand...

Yeah but your boy didn't look too clever in the CL final did he so should he lose marks for not actually turning up in the game that counted most?

Cal? said:
Likewise most people in this thread seems to think dribbling and close control is the be all and end all for footballers. :lol:
Click to expand...

But you would think that too if Ronaldo still had that in his locker :lol:

You and that 'Ronaldo's mum' poster should get a room.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Maybe I'm clouded by his physique? He may not be lightning anymore but he is still quick enough to get by defenders. I think he'll become a CF and his strength will show through.
Click to expand...
Possible, seeing as physique really doesn't tell you much about balance and agility. It's actually been sad watching him this season try to dribble the ball between defenders, he's all but lost it, which is why he now usually just takes two touches and passes it to a teammate, as opposed to old ronaldo who would take on the world before doing so. His mental attributes have just been getting sharper and sharper though, which is why his physical decline has not had too much of an impact on him. The only way his physical degeneration will take away from his game is if he is to start getting injuries, then it's curtains...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.