The Spanish wanted no parts of Maradona, they literally kicked him out of the league.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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I don't know why you even debate with that person. He's clearly a child and haven't seen enough football. If so, then he clearly has an agenda against an extraordinary player. No smart o average person could post Messi is a just a 'good player' and nothing more.
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Messi keeps getting stick for his loyalty. It's so tiresome. No one here would be giving Ronnie stick or doubting his ability if he spent his entire prime at Man Utd. If you are at the best possible club for you, why would you move?
I think the Thierry Henry said something along lines of "Bergkamp is the best player i've played with. I refuse to call Messi a player because he's an alien, what he does is impossible". Of course Boggs who's been a pro footballer thinks knows better than Henry because Messi doesn't do elasticos.
Boggs
That's it then, Messi is not even a player, he sucks.
Santos was a small team before Pele came along. He turned them into the best club team in Brazil, winning countless championships, cups and the Copa Libertadores twice. Would have won the last trophy a few more times, but Santos declined to participate in order to go on more lucrative tours facing Europe's top teams, which Pele demolished, having a better goals per games ratio than against the Brazilian teams.You are aware that this is a team sport where top players almost always play for top teams other than a few exceptions, right?
Messi is the major reason why that Barca was an amazing team.
Take Pele out of that Brazil team and put him at Peru/Colombia/Ecuador/Chile etc., he would win nothing.
Take Ronaldinho out of Barca and put him back at PSG, he would win no CL.
Take Ronaldo out of SAF's United and Real put him back at Sporting, he would have zero CL wins and Ballon D'ors.
Take R9 out of that Brazil with Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, R.Carlos, Cafu etc., he would probably win no WC and Ballon D'ors.
Take Zidane out of that France team and Los Galacticos Real, he would probably win no WC, CL or BODs.
You probably can see where I am going with that
And he would have probably still won something at the national team too.
Napoli was battling relegation before Maradona came along. He turned them into Serie A champions, Copa Italia champions and UEFA Cup winners.
Maradona also dragged an average Argentina team to World Cup glory.
CR7 proved himself in 3 different leagues. He won the Euro Cup with an average Portugal team.
Ronaldo (past prime) dragged an average Brazil team to World Cup glory. Ronaldinho was just a kid in 2002, he hadn't entered his prime yet. R.Carlos and Cafu were defenders. Ronaldo's only offensive help was Rivaldo.
And Ronaldo won Ballon D'ors before 2002, for the way he carried Barcelona and Inter.
I agree about Zidane being overrated.
My point is Messi's Barcelona team is far superior to the teams the other ATGs have had at their disposal.
Put Pele or Ronaldo in Messi's 2009-2012 Barcelona team and they score 100 goals a season.
Put Maradona in Messi's 2010 or 2014 Argentina squads and he wins the World Cup.
etc
This post proves how much of a clueless kid you are.
First of all, the Barcelona team that Maradona had at his disposal pales in comparison to the one Messi had.
Second of all, Maradona only stayed 2 years at Barcelona and never got to play an entire/complete season due to a burst of hepatitis and his leg being broken by Goikoetxea.
Well said. I told this chump the same thing.Ah yes, because the Barca side that Messi won so much with is of course directly comparable to the one that Maradona found himself in
Should Messi have downgraded from Barcelona then?
Napoli transformed into a great team with the arrivals of players like Careca, Alemao, Ferrarra, Zola, De Napoli and of course Maradona. The team finished Serie A fourth after Maradona’s departure. Maradona’s Serie A wins personally for me were very vey impressive simply because they managed to win it over formidable AC Milan, But, they failed miserably in the Champions League which does not look good as that was an era where Serie A would dominate every single tournament. Between 1988-1995, AC Milan played five CL finals, you would at least expect Maradona’s Napoli to play a SF, they could not even qualify for the QFs. Juventus and Roma also played CL finals when Maradona was at Napoli. Napoli with Maradona could not even go beyond the second round in the CL, probably the worst performing Italian team in the CL in that era. 7 years in Serie A playing for a dominant side that won 2 Serie As and winning only UEFA Cup is nothing to be proud of, I am sorry. This is a cup where between 1988-1995, 10 out of 14 finalists were Italian teams. Even 2nd tier Italian teams like Torino, Roma, Fiorentina all played UEFA Cup finals during that period.
Also, right after he left Barca, Barca won La Liga.
Maradona in my view like most is one of the GOATs easily, but let’s not act like he did not have multiple failures in his career and lacks the consistency of other GOATs in the conversation.
Ronaldinho was an emerging star and had huge impact in 2002 WC, Brazil probably would not see the SFs if not for his goal against England in the QFs when Brazil was down to 10-men. That Brazil was one of the top 2-3 favorites of that tournament along with Argentina and France, it’s weird to call it a team “average” with Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, R.Carlos, Cafu etc. in it. And, by the way, defenders matter in this game as well you know.
Also, I saw what you did with Ronaldo
So, Messi playing for that Barca is a problem and not "proving yourself", but playing for United under SAF with the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Van Nistelrooy, Rooney, Tevez, Vidic, Giggs, Scholes, Keane etc. and winning things (usual things like PL titles, CL title that SAF was winning with or without Ronaldo) at that United is “proving yourself”. Or playing for Real with the likes of Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo, Sergio Ramos, Ozil, Casemiro etc. under Ancelotti, Mourinho, Zidane and winning things is “proving yourself”. Or playing for Juve that has won 9 Serie A titles in a row (that Juve is winning with or without him) is “proving yourself”.As for Pele, do you think that Santos team without Pele would be considered an average side?
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Ronaldo won the Euro thanks to Eder, Portugal did beat France(with a bit of luck) without Ronaldo on the pitch.
Are you suggesting that Portugal beating Poland and Wales is somehow a massive achievement for Cristiano and Portugal? The only very good team Portugal with Cristiano on the pitch beated was Croatia.
Maradona had a very good team in 86 WC :
- Nery Pumpido,Oscar Ruggeri, and Hector Enrique won Copa Libertadores and Intercontinental Cup with River Plate
- Jorge Valdano was playing in Real Madrid
- Jorge Burruchaga won Copa Libertadores and Intercontinental Cup with Independiente
- Sergio "Checho" Batista won Copa Libertadores with Argentino Juniors (and then lost Intercontinental cup to Platini's Juventus on penalties after a very close game).
That was far from been an average team, their starting XI was very good, which is why they got criticized before the WC started, cause they looked very disjointed as team, and they had quality to play better.
Maradona didn't win shit until the likes od Careca,Alemao,Bruno Giordano,Ferrara, and Di Napoli arrived/improved.
His first season was his best season individually according to italian journalists of that time, and Napoli ended 8th in Serie A, as the team still lacked quality to compete for the title.
Maradona is a GOAT, but he didn't win trophies alone.
I'm surprised how ignorant some people can be to believe that great players can win tournaments/cups alone by themselves.
Thank god, many United former players are smart and don't stop praising Messi as a GOAT, i rather believe them who actually faced Messi on the pitch than some random poster on the Caf who can't even play amateur football.
Napoli transformed into a great team with the arrivals of players like Careca, Alemao, Ferrarra, Zola, De Napoli and of course Maradona. The team finished Serie A fourth after Maradona’s departure. Maradona’s Serie A wins personally for me were very vey impressive simply because they managed to win it over formidable AC Milan, But, they failed miserably in the Champions League which does not look good as that was an era where Serie A would dominate every single tournament. Between 1988-1995, AC Milan played five CL finals, you would at least expect Maradona’s Napoli to play a SF, they could not even qualify for the QFs. Juventus and Roma also played CL finals when Maradona was at Napoli. Napoli with Maradona could not even go beyond the second round in the CL, probably the worst performing Italian team in the CL in that era. 7 years in Serie playing for a dominant side that won 2 Serie As and winning only UEFA Cup is nothing to be proud of, I am sorry. This is a cup where between 1988-1995, 10 out of 14 finalists were Italian teams. Even 2nd tier Italian teams like Torino, Roma, Fiorentina all played UEFA Cup finals during that period.
Also, right after he left Barca, Barca won La Liga.
Maradona in my view like most is one of the GOATs easily, but let’s not act like he did not have multiple failures in his career and lacks the consistency of other GOATs in the conversation.
Ronaldinho was an emerging star and had huge impact in 2002 WC, Brazil probably would not see the SFs if not for his goal against England in the QFs when Brazil was down to 10-men. That Brazil was one of the top 2-3 favorites of that tournament along with Argentina and France, it’s weird to call it a team “average” with Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, R.Carlos, Cafu etc. in it. And, by the way, defenders matter in this game as well you know.
Also, I saw what you did with Ronaldo
As for Pele, do you think that Santos team without Pele would be considered an average side?
Ronaldo is unproved, he needed Vidic,Rio,Scholes,Rooney,Tévez,Giggs,Ramos, Modric,Kroos,Ramos,Benzema,Bale,Marcelo,etc to win important stuff.
Let's see how good he is now that he has to play with average players like Fred, McTominay,Wan Bissaka,Phil Jones, Maguire, etc.... this is his first real test.
No. My point is he wouldn't have won as much without that team.
If we refer to Bogdann's proof criteria, Ronaldo is definitely unproven. As you said, Ronaldo now has a chance to prove his real worth not playing under SAF the first time in his PL career. Until then he is "just a good player" again going by his criteria.
No shit? Its a team game??
It was a shame that a lot of people couldn't appreciate every second of the fantastic legacy that Cristiano and Messi left us.
And I have to consider myself lucky for it.
This endless discussion of who is the best, who was the best is absolutely meaningless, the clowning of the golden balloons and individual prizes that are more politics and corruption than anything else.
I saw Messi and Cristiano.
Ronaldinho and Maradona.
Romário, Bebeto and Ronaldo.
Milla and Baggio.
And so many others.
What luck and what a pleasure it was!
And I hope Messi doesn't stay in Paris or go to Miami!
I have a feeling it won't be like that, but I'd like the romance to win, it's going to Rosario Messi!!!!
And I have to consider myself lucky for it.
This endless discussion of who is the best, who was the best is absolutely meaningless, the clowning of the golden balloons and individual prizes that are more politics and corruption than anything else.
I saw Messi and Cristiano.
Ronaldinho and Maradona.
Romário, Bebeto and Ronaldo.
Milla and Baggio.
And so many others.
What luck and what a pleasure it was!
And I hope Messi doesn't stay in Paris or go to Miami!
I have a feeling it won't be like that, but I'd like the romance to win, it's going to Rosario Messi!!!!
And in my opinion, the way he played was very suited to that team and league that I always wanted to see him in a different place, team and environment- like how many players can play wonderfully at a certain league or club but be "different" at another.
Whilst I would never say that he cant do it - I've always wanted to see if we could see Messi's magic outside of that league, outside of that club.
Hopefully he can get to some form at PSG, the ligue 1 and the CL so I can rest my mind about who is the best I've seen.
I'm not sure he's going to Rosario before he breaks the all time football trophies record. He's already shattered and locked up the Balón d'Or record, golden boot record, highest goals in a season, highest goals in a calender year, most assists in a calender year, most domestic top scorer awards.
He will want to end up as the most decorated player ever.
I honestly don't think Messi is quite as obsessed about that as some think. I think he'll want to win another CL which I don't think he will because PSG simply have no chemisty this season. Apart from that, I dont think he cares at all.
I think that the world cup is his biggest goal, but even going back to Barcelona's peak 10 years ago, he would always talk about trophies being what counts. Whether that means he's chasing the all time record is something I don't know, so I suppose you might be right.
The only thing he seems to mention these days is the world cup.
Maybe, but 35 year old Messi and Argentina winning the next world cup? Maybe but also low odds. I dont know what interview you are talking about, but perhaps he was simply saying that team trophies count more him than individual records. Whether that's his true feelings I don't know, he's naturally humble in interviews but I think he definitely cares about his individual records and his stature in game. He just doesn't come across as insecure about it. Most contemporary players, managers and pundits already have him down as the best of all time. I don't think he feels need the call himself the best all the time like the rest do.
I don't think they'll win it either. I'm just pointing out that it seems to be his singular focus. I also agree that individual records matter to all players, including him. I was merely pointing out that he already has the biggest individual records already (which - as you pointed out - has led to many declaring him as the greatest ever). At the moment, attaining some team records (such as the trophies mark) might mean more than winning 7th golden boot, for example.
I think another CL would mean the world to him, but PSG are struggling to dominate teams in league one, I simply don't see them winning it and he has to pick up his form as well unless he's past it and won't get back to his best relative to his age. Winning league one means nothing to him I think. World cup definitely, but slim odds. I think his individual honours definitely cement his stature, but its the eye test that makes prime Messi so great. Looking up stats is great, but putting the greatest defenders in the world on their ass and scoring a great goal is what's memorable.
It's the eye test combined with goals, goals alone don't make anybody a GOAT, otherwise Gerd Müller would be considered a GOAT, but the german GOAT will always be Franz Beckenbauer.
Harry Kane has very similar number of goals as Henry in PL, but nobody thinks he is as great as Henry.
What we've seen so far shows he can't adapt very well in another league, team and playing system.
That will never happen since he can't win the World Cup.
I think we have found Bogdannn. Messi is a pace merchant
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Messi never getting a consistent run of games is really boring.
He is on retirement plan bro
he must be like let me chill till WC.jokes asides, covid recovery has not been kind to many footballers, so it will take time.
He is on retirement plan bro
jokes asides, covid recovery has not been kind to many footballers, so it will take time.
I know but it honestly seems like he never gets a chance to pick up form if it's going to happen at all.
No Barca team behind him, no party
His legacy as GOAT is already set, it isn't gonna get any better/worse for winning Ligue 1 with PSG.
I think he only cares about World Cup now, he has won all the other trophies.
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Didn't say anything about legacy. I just want to see more Messi magic before he retires.
You are really obsessed, aren’t you?
Isnt he soon going to play? still recovering from Covid?
He played last night...
Ah he was a sub.
Dont follow PSG, how has Messi been doing over there?
how is Barcelona doing without Messi?
Scored 1 goal in the league.
People expected him to shit on Ligue 1, but it just shows it's never as simple as that.
It really does make you wonder why he's struggling out there so badly.
1 goal in 12 Ligue games would be terrible for any expensive PSG signing but for Messi that's just shocking. However, he only cares about CL + World Cup and then he'll move to Miami. That's been obvious for some time now.