Yeah. He’s an introvert (from limited articles I’ve read), so how he’s often gone about his business made sense but it was also often conflated with “leadership” (you can lead in different ways). But this tournament was something else. He stepped up, was verbal, protected his team and most of all, provided on the pitch….agreed with you
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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I hope they show his pre-match speech like they leaked this pre-match speech for Copa America final.
There's been a film crew following Messi and Argentina around the whole tournament for a Last Dance style documentary, it's going to break the internet when it drops.
Can't do it in a cold night at Stoke. That should be common knowledge by now.
Ooooh, I had no idea. What a watch that’ll be.
That goal against Mexico to start their tournament, the goal against Australia, the amazing assists against Netherlands and Croatia and would also have been the game winner today, not even taking into account the coolness from the penalty spot.
What an inspired tournament he's had, don't think anyone expected him to perform like this.
What an inspired tournament he's had, don't think anyone expected him to perform like this.
He currently sits on 350 assists according to the google thing. So 793 goals and 350 assists in 1003 games which are just absurd numbers.
I love things like this.Yeah. His total goal production figure will likely never be beaten. 1143 now and you'd imagine he'll probably end up with close to 1200 by the time he's done.
He was way more deserving of the golden ball at 35 than he was at 27. Ronaldo has constantly been praised for his longevity, but Ronnie didn’t do anything remotely similar to this World Cup age 35.
Messi is the one who loses the ball for Mbappes's volley. i really feared the worst they would lose the game from that
World Cup is probably and easily Ronaldo's worst tournament, but at 33 he was having his best world cup and mauling some great temas like Spain like they were 2nd fiddle, many of them their teammates at RM. Someone mentioned Messi having clearly his best WC at age 35, and I think it's not coincidence for both that both had their best shows way past their "prime". Thing is the physical prime is one thing, your mind condition for playing football "prime" is another. Players like both of these can be thought of having had an all roses career, but they have had to overcome a lot over the years to achieve what they did. At 30-36 playing for their national teams (which I think is what their peak actually was in performances for their country), there's just been so much they've gone through that the level of experience and maturity is so much that despite them both clearly not being the peak players they once were, they could actually give much more to their teams than at their peak.
Someone also mentioned the Copa America being a determining factor in Messi's performance this World Cup and winning the Copa without scoring a goal in the final, and I agree 100% with that. That is indeed the turning point for Messi, which gave him an ease and comfort that allowed his already strong mind to go one notch further than before. It was also for me the difference maker for Argentina itself. The moment they won the Copa that's when I started strongly considering them for a WC win. It was freaking huge for the entire group.
Although he had 2 good games, the penalty miss against Iran was huge. Their run in if he scored, rather than Uruguay would have been Russia.
Yeah. I knew we were dead once we drew Uruguay in the final 16. That penalty was a gutter for me, really hard to take in. Ronnie doesn't really have many good WC performances, but vs Spain for me was one of the best games I've seen him play ever.
That reminds me, with the WC over and Messi winning it, where would you guys rank Messi's WC overall performances against, say his La Liga or CL ones? What would be your rank in order?
I think his 4 goals v arsenal is pretty tough to top.
do you have a source for this?
His best single match, given the title race context, the fouls, the hilarious unstoppable nosebleed, the fact that he was the one through whom all the attacks were built, 2 glorious goals including his 500th in stoppage time, the celebration:
The following should have been nominated for a Best Cinematography Award. I can't explain how glorious the sequencing after the goal is... Add in the legendary Ray Hudson of course...
I can see his productivity being beaten. It's the fact that he's also a playmaker pulling the strings that makes its a completely anomaly.
I really wonder how motivated Messi and Mbappe are for the rest of the season.
Or in general all playes that came to the final stages of the tournament.
And also how they get back to normal again. I see Mbappes role at the France national team equal to the role he has in PSG while Messi is the total leader of Argentina but "just" a star player in PSG.
In terms of individual award.. The fact that they play in the same club is very much a hedge for Messi with respect to Ballon d'or. Either they both win it or not but it makes it hard for Mbappe to be the favourite contender.
I will not be suprised if Messi will look very demotivated the coming months. Which will be understandable.
Or in general all playes that came to the final stages of the tournament.
And also how they get back to normal again. I see Mbappes role at the France national team equal to the role he has in PSG while Messi is the total leader of Argentina but "just" a star player in PSG.
In terms of individual award.. The fact that they play in the same club is very much a hedge for Messi with respect to Ballon d'or. Either they both win it or not but it makes it hard for Mbappe to be the favourite contender.
I will not be suprised if Messi will look very demotivated the coming months. Which will be understandable.
I think the carrot of another UCL will bring him back around. He will know PSG with their new 343 system is built to win it - Donnaruma, Hakimi, Ramos, Marquinos, Verati, Vitinha, Neymar, Mbappe - that would bring him to 5 UCL which I think he will want to do.
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't look as bothered in the league and small cups though.
Mbappe should be motivated. He's got loads to prove and achieve in his career. I can see Messi being a bit flat as he's basically achieved the pinnacle - the one missing dream left for him to realise. PSG and French league after that might be a bit..meh after that
Obviously I'm biased as Real Madrid fan, but nah. Barcelona lost that league title and RM did a league/CL double. The match ended up being entirely meaningless.
There are surely many more matches in which he scored great goals on the way to an actual title win.
He had far better games than that. Numerous much better games. I could, on top of my head, easily mention 25-30 better performances.
As for games against RM (he is the all-time goal scorer in El Clásico games and leading with the most recorded assists as well, surprise, surprise), the amount of spankings that he participated in against RM spanning over 1 decade is too many to count. Starting with the hattrick back in 2007 as a 19 year old (youngest player to do it of course). Or the 5-0 where he for did not score but ran the game completely otherwise and was in the center of almost everything. Typical Messi game where he is able to be the best player on the pitch despite not recording any goals or assists just due to his sheer dribbling, passing etc. brilliance and ability to control/being at the center of almost everything in a football match.
Anyway probably the most iconic goal of his against RM and performance, given what was at stake, were the 2 goals at the Bernabéu during the first CL semifinal leg back in 2011. If I recall his first goal in that game was that amazing solo goal.
But we are talking about the GOAT, his heighlight video catalogue is hours and hours long. Alien.
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As good as Messi was in this WC, he's had better performances in the past.
His 2010-2011 season is my personal pick for the 'best' Messi and you can find plenty of performances that season that were beyond amazing.
https://www.marca.com/en/world-cup/2022/12/20/63a11ee2ca4741d41f8b45dd.html
World Cup photo beat the egg picture by 5 million likes, Piers won't be happy about that!
World Cup photo beat the egg picture by 5 million likes, Piers won't be happy about that!
Maradona has the best ball handling out of all the players I mentioned. I really don't like comparing across eras because the game is too different. Nutrition, the pitch conditions, the offside law (which changes the way teams attack and defend), defenders being allowed to get away with so much more back in the 70s and 80s especially, the top players being concentrated in a few clubs (which is why you have players that are hitting 40+ and 50+ goals now in this era bar Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo), positional play being implemented now across all levels which means the game is more geared towards attacking.
I also have to say that La Liga in the 80s is one of the worst brand of football I have ever seen and it could not be called football. It was literally just kicking players to the ground. Maradona had to deal with too much. There were even arguments back then that top players would not come to Spain because of the lack of protection (Which is crazy when you think about La Liga today, the home of technical excellence in the sport). Johan Cruijff even had to come out and defend Maradona's performances. No player would have done anymore in those conditions. It was literally impossible to play football and it was a disgrace to be quite frank.
It was impossible to be a top player back then at a high level for that long because of the amount of kicks they took, which is why I hold Pele in particular in high regard. Johan Cruijff already lost a lot of his pace by 1972 due to the kicks he had to his ankle. Pele was kicked to pieces all throughout his career and people should go and watch the abuse Pele suffered in the 1966 World Cup vs Bulgaria and the game vs Portugal. Maradona was abused all throughout his career, particularly in Spain in the early 80s. But that is why football has advanced for the better. Each player of the next generation stands on the shoulder of the last generation. Football belongs to the attackers now and it is better for it.
The pitch back then bubbled and was muddy all over which not only affected ball control and ball carrying, but even affected how player's took their first touch. Despite all this, Maradona's ball control was just something I don't think I will ever seen. He had a mastery of the ball that I don't think anyone will ever have again in my lifetime. I still remember kicking the ball about in De Meer (Ajax's old stadium) as a child and kicking about the balls today. I don't think younger people today can fully understand the difference today, especially with the footballs themselves.
Saying all that, Messi is more robotic and effective with his dribbling and his passing is more effective (with regards to the final ball), but that also has to do with the rehearsed patterns that is part of modern football. Maradona was as good of a passer and was a far more creative passer. He would ball carry the ball into the corner and do a kick up and bicycle kick the ball into the box for an assist. The issue with Messi, is that he has made the extraordinary routine. I would say Messi is more like Johan Cruijff, and the modern equivalent of Maradona was actually Ronaldinho.
Both fantastic players and a product of their time. I think Maradona being born in this era would have been something else, but Maradona could not be born in this era, because what made him that man and player where the experiences he grew up with and he was prophesised as the perfect Argentinian footballer in the early 1900s, which further added to his myth. Both are fantastic and the best of their eras.
Maradona had a force of personality that I have never seen in a footballer which is why he transcended the sport and led to his cult like following which continues on today. What I liked is that Messi has shown that side of him at the age of 35 and has become more "Argentinian" for lack of a better word. His charisma and leadership since the Copa gave me the same "feeling" that I had when Diego played and I'm glad he topped it off with a world cup win to further cement himself as the dominant force of his era.
I was and am delighted for him to win the WC. In my opinion, he is now the greatest of all time.
The reality is that Messi is so, so good, that the two times we had a little organized team without amazing stars, we got to WC finals.
It's a shame how we wasted 2010 and 2018. Especially 2010 with Maradona. My grandma as a coach would have done it better.
It's a shame how we wasted 2010 and 2018. Especially 2010 with Maradona. My grandma as a coach would have done it better.
Before, I said there were 5 Emperors in football. Now there are 6.
In no order:
Alfredo Di Stefano, Pele, Johan Cruijff, Franz Beckenbauer, Diego Armando Maradona and now Lionel Messi.
That for me is the Tier 1 table of football.
Then after that you have Puskas, Platini, Gerd Muller, Cristiano Ronaldo
Then rest of the other greats of the game such as Xavi, Modric, Iniesta, Zidane, Ronaldo, Zico, Baresi, Marco van Basten
Good post.
Who needs to rest? Casemiro? Eriksen? No problem
2010 was a disgrace considering how much stacked Argentina was.
It could have easily been this team:
Romero
Zanetti Samuel Demichelis Heinze?
Cambiasso Mascherano
Messi Riquelme Aguero
Milito
Zanetti Samuel Demichelis Heinze?
Cambiasso Mascherano
Messi Riquelme Aguero
Milito
Milito was the best striker in Europe last season and the best player on that UCL campaign. Samuel, Zanetti and Cambiasso had just won the treble. Mascherano was arguably the best DF in Europe, Aguero was an excellent up and coming striker, and Riquelme was, well, he was Riquelme.
And then have Di Maria, Tevez, Lavezzi, Higuain, Veron, Otamendi, Pastore, Burdisso, Maxi Rodriguez in the bench.
Should have walked that World Cup with a competent coach. I can just imagine Riquelme feeding through balls to peak Messi and Milito. Would have paid to watch that team.
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I think they should have won it but they got an Diego as a manager who was incapable.
No offence to Diego, as a player, he's an absolute icon that's worshipped across the world, but as a manager awful.
I think there was a game he took only strikers on the bench, no defenders.
Yeah Argentina really flopped in 2010 by hiring Maradona as the coach.
That was the most stacked they'd been and they should have done better.
That was the most stacked they'd been and they should have done better.
I believe they had one midfielder on the pitch vs Germany. They wasted all the potential of that team to feed into the whole Maradona mania. Madness.
Maradona and Sampaoli were the worst managers in both WC, and possibly the worst coaches Argentina ever had.
What was the feeling among football experts and journalists during Maradona's time as manager? Did they actually back that ridiculous decision? I understand the people had to be for it.
journalists are fecking cowards, they kept the mouth shut although everybody knew the team was totally unbalanced.