Lindelof - new DM?

redrobed said:
You don’t see players tried in new positions often enough anymore. I’d be up for giving it a go. Fernando Torres was a CB until he was 11.

Scholesy is a player I’d have loved to have seen us stick up front when the whole big man/ little man thing was live and kicking as he was quite diminutive. Could have worked well with some of the bigger, burly strikers we had over the years like Sheringham, Dublin and Van Nistlerooy.
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Scholes played up front for the youth team and for the first team before moving back and finishing his niche in midfield
 
golden_blunder said:
Scholes played up front for the youth team and for the first team before moving back and finishing his niche in midfield
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Chesterlestreet said:
Eh? That's pretty much exactly how he started out.
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Where did Beckham play? I don't remember football before 98 and people talk about him playing centrally at one point for us, and in some old clips it does look like he is, but I can't imagine him as one of two up top, or in central midfield, and I assumed we always played 442 back then.
 
golden_blunder said:
...and finishing his niche in midfield
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Yes - and one could even add (controversially, possibly) that the version of Scholes most seem to remember now (deep in midfield, distributing long-range passes with pinpoint accuracy) was actually a post-prime version that didn't fully emerge until he was well past 30.
 
Lindelof as DM is just as stupid as Bailly as DM.

People who always want centrebacks as DM's usually dont have a fecking clue
 
DOTA said:
...and people talk about him playing centrally at one point for us, and in some old clips it does look like he is, but I can't imagine him as one of two up top, or in central midfield, and I assumed we always played 442 back then.
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Who do you mean - Scholes or Beckham?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Who do you mean - Scholes or Beckham?
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Beckham, yeah. Seen quite a few comments over the years about him playing in the middle for us in his early days.

EDIT - 96-97, Poborsky started 15 league games and Beckham started 33, so unless we played an extra 10 league games they were in the same side somehow quite a few times.
 
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redrobed said:
You don’t see players tried in new positions often enough anymore. I’d be up for giving it a go. Fernando Torres was a CB until he was 11.

Scholesy is a player I’d have loved to have seen us stick up front when the whole big man/ little man thing was live and kicking as he was quite diminutive. Could have worked well with some of the bigger, burly strikers we had over the years like Sheringham, Dublin and Van Nistlerooy.
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You're right in that perhaps players could be experimented with more often, it's just hard to say what the logic in this particular example would be.

Do Lindelof's abilities really seem to tally with what is expected of the modern defensive midfielder? I can hardly see a thing that makes it a good idea in terms of attributes. Maybe it's my lack of imagination. It's more that we've got a hole in our squad, people see a CB that is ok on the ball and come up with this idea - there doesn't seem to be anything to it in terms of substance.

If I'm being honest if we were going to speculatively attempt some conversion of a defender I'd have AWB higher up the list. He'd be pretty hopeless technically but at least dynamically capable, he could cover ground, tackle, harry people. He could do some of the dirty stuff, I don't see anything to argue Victor's case.
 
DOTA said:
Beckham, yeah. Seen quite a few comments over the years about him playing in the middle for us in his early days.
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He did - but that clearly wasn't Fergie's favourite position for him.

He did play centrally - with someone else on the right (in the Fergie style 4-4-2) on occasion. In the '99 final, not least (but that formation was forced by injuries).

Fergie wanted him wide, though - to make the most of his immense crossing ability, not least. But Beckham had the skill set to work well as a central midfielder too.

But his true niche was that of a side midfielder (not a winger) - a role that is pretty much dead these days - in a 4-4-2.
 
Abraxas said:
Do Lindelof's abilities really seem to tally with what is expected of the modern defensive midfielder?
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In short, they do not.

As you said, Lindelof is a semi-decent passer for a center back, i.e. when he has the entire game in front of him and can pick out long passes. People see that and think it means he'll be equally comfortable receiving the ball on the half-turn under constant pressure, needing to move it quickly.

Andersonson said:
People who always want centrebacks as DM's usually dont have a fecking clue
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The (slightly) nicer way I phrase it is that it's usually people whose understanding of central and defensive midfield roles comes from FIFA or PES \m/ Stick a defender in the midfield with good Tackling, hold X/A and use them to run around chasing the ball. It's why you keep seeing posters want Wan-Bissaka there too.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
He did - but that clearly wasn't Fergie's favourite position for him.

He did play centrally - with someone else on the right (in the Fergie style 4-4-2) on occasion. In the '99 final, not least (but that formation was forced by injuries).

Fergie wanted him wide, though - to make the most of his immense crossing ability, not least. But Beckham had the skill set to work well as a central midfielder too.

But his true niche was that of a side midfielder (not a winger) - a role that is pretty much dead these days - in a 4-4-2.
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Weirdly, I am not sure that Becks had the short passing game or spatial awareness to excel in CM, magnificent over range but when compared to guys like Xavi, Scholes, Pirlo, even Carrick he was not as good at finding short angles and dealing with an extreme press. I think he thought of himself as a CM and they tried him there in Madrid( without much success), but Fergie was correct, his game was much better suited to the wide midfield role with a little more space to get head up and find passes.
 
DOTA said:
Where did Beckham play? I don't remember football before 98 and people talk about him playing centrally at one point for us, and in some old clips it does look like he is, but I can't imagine him as one of two up top, or in central midfield, and I assumed we always played 442 back then.
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Never really played cm apart from filling in now and again. Sometimes played a little narrower but essentially played mostly as a right sided player, for us at least
 
Bobski said:
...when compared to guys like Xavi, Scholes, Pirlo, even Carrick he was not as good at finding short angles and dealing with an extreme press...
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Agreed - of course.

But now we're talking top of the line players - even historically great ones. He falls well short there (as a CM) - no doubt.

He was a niche player, ultimately - his skill set was perfect for the 4-4-2: Not quite a CM (but with CM like traits), not quite a winger (but with winger like traits).

And - with extreme qualities which made him stand out from most: he never had the speed or the 1-on-1 ability of a great winger - but he had a cross on him that's right up there with...anyone (I would say). And he knew how to use it - he was extremely dangerous whenever he got the chance to go for a long-ranger into the box.

He was also the very opposite of what his pretty boy image would suggest - as in, he worked his arse off, was a team player, etc. Which is something that enhanced his reputation among United fans back then, who watched him every week - but which was lost on neutrals (who considered him a bit of a - well - pop star).
 
Isotope said:
Silva and KdB in midfield three? what a stupid idea.
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Two incredibly technically gifted and intelligent attacking midfielders adapting to play central midfield in a dominant, possession-hungry team with the defensive structure behind them and pressing system around them to allow them to dominate games.

The parallels with putting a physically weak, aerially incompetent center-back with slightly above-average technical ability into a midfield that already struggles to not only progress the ball but also defend transitions are ... oh. Not there at all.
 
Andersonson said:
He also put O'shea there, and Rio.

Jones was much more mobile pre injuries and had some qualities that could be built on as a youngster. Would you put Jones as a DM now?
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No, but its not a wild suggestion to say one of our CBs could possibly play there.
 
Im not Lindeløf`s biggest fan, far from it! but with Matic over the top and Mctominay and Fred not really CDM`s either.

Could Lindeløf do a better job in CDM than CB? cause he has good long passes and decent on the ball. He lacks some pace and aerial presence so that makes him weaker as a CB but why not play to his strenghts?

If his only job was beeing a cover for the defence and hit those long balls we have seen he can do, he would give players like Bruino/Pogba/DvB more freedom to go forward without getting too much punished and we actually have 1 more player going forward instead of playing McFred and occipy 2 midfield slots.

Im just trying to find a solution for the CDM problems until we actuially get a great CDM.
 
He could play anywhere, central midfield, right wing, up front. Probably wouldn't be any good in any of those positions though.
 
AlexUTD said:
Im not Lindeløf`s biggest fan, far from it! but with Matic over the top and Mctominay and Fred not really CDM`s either.

Could Lindeløf do a better job in CDM than CB? cause he has good long passes and decent on the ball. He lacks some pace and aerial presence so that makes him weaker as a CB but why not play to his strenghts?

If his only job was beeing a cover for the defence and hit those long balls we have seen he can do, he would give players like Bruino/Pogba/DvB more freedom to go forward without getting too much punished and we actually have 1 more player going forward instead of playing McFred and occipy 2 midfield slots.

Im just trying to find a solution for the CDM problems until we actuially get a great CDM.
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Im not thinking of him in relation to what we currently have but his inability to read what's behind him.
I strongly believe he was developed in the wrong position. His posture, how uncomfortable he gets when a striker backs up into him, lack of recovery speed and his QB style. These are all not the strongest CB attributes.
Whilst as DM reading game in front of you, closing spaces, good passing range and simplicity are quite relevant. He has that to his game and that's why I've been convinced of his ability to transition from the first time I watch him play for us.
 
KikiDaKats said:
Im not thinking of him in relation to what we currently have but his inability to read what's behind him.
I strongly believe he was developed in the wrong position. His posture, how uncomfortable he gets when a striker backs up into him, lack of recovery speed and his QB style. These are all not the strongest CB attributes.
Whilst as DM reading game in front of you, closing spaces, good passing range and simplicity are quite relevant. He has that to his game and that's why I've been convinced of his ability to transition from the first time I watch him play for us.
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We see the same then mate, would be nice to see him given the chance just to try, not like it can get any worse than it is now anyway?
 
AlexUTD said:
We see the same then mate, would be nice to see him given the chance just to try, not like it can get any worse than it is now anyway?
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Made this point in his second season and I was shut down but the feeling can't go away. It won't be a popular decision amongs the fans but if it works out, we all win. The greatest managers always make such decisions.
 
KikiDaKats said:
Made this point in his second season and I was shut down but the feeling can't go away. It won't be a popular decision amongs the fans but if it works out, we all win. The greatest managers always make such decisions.
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Well the transfer window is closed,gotta look at options. Something Solskjaer is incapable of sadly.

Sky1981 said:
Can't master the position he plays for years

Play him in a new position

Caf logic.
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Well if you read my reasoning behind the question, wich was that we do not have any better options in midfield and its not like we can buy anyone yet either.

It does not hurt to look into what we have in the squad. I hate watching Lindeløf playing as a CB cause he cant play there, but it doesnt mean he could be better as a CDM until we get another CDM in.
 
AlexUTD said:
Well the transfer window is closed,gotta look at options. Something Solskjaer is incapable of sadly.



Well if you read my reasoning behind the question, wich was that we do not have any better options in midfield and its not like we can buy anyone yet either.

It does not hurt to look into what we have in the squad. I hate watching Lindeløf playing as a CB cause he cant play there, but it doesnt mean he could be better as a CDM until we get another CDM in.
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It's not that easy to play in another position in professional football, let alone in the EPL. Certainly not with Ole as the manager, he hardly instruct a real CM to play like alone, let alone the tactical capacity to identify a good candidate for a position make over, let alone instructing or moulding one.

There's more to being a DM than simply "good with defending" the positioning and off the ball movement would take years to master, the reflex and instinct. It's not something you can do easilly over 2-3 games like in FM. Even in FM it could take 1 full season at least.
 
This is an awful idea. Lindelöf isn’t really among the top ball playing defenders, and he isn’t all that good in his natural position let alone worrying about to have to play in a new one.

Looking around the PL at the very best ball-playing CBs; I wouldn’t want Laporte, Van Dijk, Stones, Christensen etc playing as a holding midfielder either. In recent memory the only 2 I can think of that I’d like there are Marquinhos & David Luiz.
 
Some quick and knee-jerk reactions from people here.

Some of you forget some squads Fergie turned up with to games, such as the 2-0 win against Arsenal when we had 7 defenders on the pitch.

Just ruling out Lindelof in DM like that is so black and white. Personally, I'd actually be intrigued to see him there. Who knows what he'd be like.

Mascherano reinvented himself as a CB at Barca from a mid at Pool, Bale moved from LB to a winger, even Schweinsteiger moved from a winger to central midfield.
 
Very few centre backs can play in the middle of the park with oppo players all around the them. It requires quick thinking and press resistancy they don't have.

The few that do were usually transitioned in to CB way later in their career to play better out the back. I'm thinking guys like Blind and Alaba.
 
RepardReece said:
Some quick and knee-jerk reactions from people here.

Some of you forget some squads Fergie turned up with to games, such as the 2-0 win against Arsenal when we had 7 defenders on the pitch.

Just ruling out Lindelof in DM like that is so black and white. Personally, I'd actually be intrigued to see him there. Who knows what he'd be like.

Mascherano reinvented himself as a CB at Barca from a mid at Pool, Bale moved from LB to a winger, even Schweinsteiger moved from a winger to central midfield.
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The problem is the players you listed are all class footballers to begin with. Mascherano was an excellent player, Bale and Schweinsteiger were world class footballers ultimately. They excelled in their final position, sure, but they'd have been bloody good regardless.

With a second rate player like Lindelof who probably isn't even top 4 starting quality it is a much bigger question. It's more like praying against all possible logic that it can work because we're desperate, it isn't really justifiable beyond vague ideas like he's good at passing for a CB (he's not really, but let's go with it...)
 
He’s a shockingly bad centre back so why on earth anyone thinks he can play in midfield is beyond a joke. Typical fifa fan who thinks these ridiculous ideas can work. Clearly never played the game.
 
Please can we just name one successful DC converted to DM example in last two decades ? You even would not do it in FM game , not mentioning real life.
 
Abraxas said:
The problem is the players you listed are all class footballers to begin with. Mascherano was an excellent player, Bale and Schweinsteiger were world class footballers ultimately. They excelled in their final position, sure, but they'd have been bloody good regardless.

With a second rate player like Lindelof who probably isn't even top 4 starting quality it is a much bigger question. It's more like praying against all possible logic that it can work because we're desperate, it isn't really justifiable beyond vague ideas like he's good at passing for a CB (he's not really, but let's go with it...)
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Of course they were, it is still ridiculous how people can dismiss something so quickly though. If a player is coached right, he can play a different position.

As I said, 3 defenders played midfield against a full-strength Arsenal side - and we won 2-0.

Not saying he would work as a DM, because I don't think he would, but it's actually crazy how closed-minded some people on here are. I'd love to read the reaction from the same people on here when Fergie came out with that team against Arsenal, bet their prediction would've been 5-0 Arsenal.
 
RepardReece said:
Of course they were, it is still ridiculous how people can dismiss something so quickly though. If a player is coached right, he can play a different position.

As I said, 3 defenders played midfield against a full-strength Arsenal side - and we won 2-0.

Not saying he would work as a DM, because I don't think he would, but it's actually crazy how closed-minded some people on here are. I'd love to read the reaction from the same players when Fergie came out with that team against Arsenal, bet their prediction would've been 5-0 Arsenal.
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Fergie managed to pull off incredible things. But that's not necessarily a basis to put forward Lindelof's case because it's a different time in football and we don't have the same structure around the team where you can experiment with areas or rotate heavily because there is reliability elsewhere.

You may be right generally speaking, that there could be options among the squad to play positions and different solutions with some lateral thinking. Ultimately good managers do that. I do think CB to CM is a fairly rare option among likely changes.
 
Abraxas said:
Fergie managed to pull off incredible things. But that's not necessarily a basis to put forward Lindelof's case because it's a different time in football and we don't have the same structure around the team where you can experiment with areas or rotate heavily because there is reliability elsewhere.

You may be right generally speaking, that there could be options among the squad to play positions and different solutions with some lateral thinking. Ultimately good managers do that. I do think CB to CM is a fairly rare option among likely changes.
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Hence why i did put my opinion forward in the matter that I do not think Lindelof would work there. My point is just that people are so arrogant on here and dismiss everything so quickly. I mean, who's to actually know he wouldn't work there. We could all be surprised.

If I was in the scenario Man United has with a weak defensive midfield, I would experiment in training, and see if something like this could occur. Great managers do find the best positions for their players and get the best out of them. Again, Fergie the prime example playing 7 defenders, many of you in here would not have thought about that for a split second.

I'll reiterate before some of you explode, I do not think Lindelof would be successful as a DM.
 
Johnsen played there, O'Shea played there, even Jones played as a DM. But for some reason trying Lindelof is taboo by caf logic.

Nobody says we have to permanently convert him, but no harm in trying him there especially with the way McTomminay is playing.
 
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