Liam Delap | £30m release clause?

Hojlund hit 16 in his first season, Delap is around the same. Hojlund has had to perform at a bigger club under huge pressure. Delap has done none of that. I don't think the evidence backs up your statement. I think both players are not good enough for Manchester United.
It's a really simplistic take to just look at the numbers. As a footballer he's far better than Rasmus in just about every aspect.

Attacks wouldn't die with Delap, you wouldn't see him on the floor everytime he's tussling with a defender, he's quicker, excellent at give and goes and I also think his ceiling is very high.

I've said it before on here but if I were a betting man he'll be Kanes replacement in a couple years for England.
 
He really wasn't. He had a purple patch of 7 goals in 6 games but was actually fluctuating between ok and not great in all the other ones, whilst being surrounded by a lot better quality.

Delap is more direct, he's a better dribbler, he's stronger in the air and he's sharper than both hojlund of last season and this season.

Again, having better quality is easily offset by having no pressure at Ipswich. There may be aspects to Delap's game that we are seeing because he's allowed more freedom to do whatever he wants at Ipswich, which would be constrained by Amorim's system and the pressure of playing at United.
 
Again, having better quality is easily offset by having no pressure at Ipswich. There may be aspects to Delap's game that we are seeing because he's allowed more freedom to do whatever he wants at Ipswich, which would be constrained by Amorim's system and the pressure of playing at United.
I dont think simple things like winning the ball in the air, being an aggressive nuisance to defenders, having more direct play and getting shots off quicker is something that's just a Mckenna style at Ipswich vs Manchester United.

These are all facets which Amorim would endorse surely. It's not a system or pressure thing.

Hojlund was showing some frailties in his game even at atalanta. Take aerial duels for example, he had quite a bad record even then at 6ft 4 no less.
 
At 30m, he's worth the gamble. However, you could imagine many games where Cunha, if signed, or Zirkzee would play as the number 9.
yes, maybe if we had a proven goal scorer and we were looking for a young back up but we don't have 30m to gamble at the 9 position bc we need goals
 
I suppose the question is do you think Delap could replicate around 12+ goals most seasons in a United side?

In which case I’d argue it’s a step in the right direction for a low fee.

I’d completely understand a hesitance to believe he’ll be the main man to fire us to the top. But I absolutely think he helps us climb the next rung on the ladder.

I think most available strikers will look appealing when contrasted against Hojlund's performances this year. If we're simply going for the cheapest option, Jonathan David might be worth a look. As for getting the same amount of goals as he did at Ipswich....I'd love to confidently say he would, but as we've seen with our current striker, one never knows how they are going adapt at playing a big club.
 
Hojlund of this year yes. The 16 goal Hojlund of last year was better and not too far off from this version of Delap. Once the pressure of needing to perform set in, his confidence began to quickly erode. Andy Carroll's first couple of years at Pool spring to mind.
Nah, Hojlund scored about half of his goals within a 6 game period. He's been pretty awful in the vast majority of games he has played.

The other issue is when he doesn't score (which is often) he shows himself up as a terrible footballer. Even if Delap isn't scoring, his general play is good.
 
If Cunha and Delap can contribute 30 goals and assists combined next season that would likely put us right back into the top 4/5 conversation. Imagine how many more points we'd have adding even 15 goals to our current season?

Get back into the top 5 next season and then push on from there
 
Not sure about the clamour for Delap. There is a thing within the Premier league whereby any overhyped English players gets peddled toward Manchester United. Aaron Wan Bissaka, Luke Shaw, Harry Maguire, Phil Jones, Ashley Young. These stories rarely ever end well. They need to be of outstanding quality to join Manchester United. That is what the likes of Michael Carrick, Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand were.
Shaw and probably Jones were of the right quality. They just got destroyed by injury to the extent they weren't able to reach their potential (although Shaw still went on to have two seasons where he was one of the best leftbacks in the world, so we can only wonder how good he could have been without the injuries).
 
He really wasn't. He had a purple patch of 7 goals in 6 games but was actually fluctuating between ok and not great in all the other ones, whilst being surrounded by a lot better quality.

Delap is more direct, he's a better dribbler, he's stronger in the air and he's sharper than both hojlund of last season and this season.
Just like Delap. They are both not good enough.
 
He really wasn't. He had a purple patch of 7 goals in 6 games but was actually fluctuating between ok and not great in all the other ones, whilst being surrounded by a lot better quality.

Delap is more direct, he's a better dribbler, he's stronger in the air and he's sharper than both hojlund of last season and this season.
I expect Delap to do better but a lot of what you are saying is projection. Delap has operated with a lot more space due to teams playing a high line against Ipswich and this has afforded him a lot more time on the ball than Rasmus has typically been given. Yes he is better in the air but 99% of footballers are as that is Hojlund's most glaring weakness, despite that Delap has not scored a single headed goal so yes he is better but he is not actually very good in this area.

I am mostly ok with the signing of Delap but I do not agree that he is a sure thing to be better than Hojlund in the long run. Liam could just as easily regress with us next season and finish in single digits although I am hoping that fixing some of the other glaring issues with the side will mean he is set up with a better chance for success than Rasmus has been during the car crash of the last 2 seasons.
 
I dont care about other positions, If we only have 100m including the money from the sale of other players and the only available quality striker is going for that price I would gladly pay all that money on one quality striker instead of 2 average players.

Would you not swap Hojlund and Zirkzee for Harry Kane 2 years ago?
 
I dont care about other positions, If we only have 100m including the money from the sale of other players and the only available quality striker is going for that price I would gladly pay all that money on one quality striker instead of 2 average players.

Would you not swap Hojlund and Zirkzee for Harry Kane 2 years ago?
That does not alter the fact that even for 100M the player you want simply is not there. Leaving aside the possibility of signing any bigger names which ranges from slim to none in most cases, there is not a single player potentially on the move this summer who is a certainty to score 20+ goals in the PL.

The club has quite rationally decided that it makes more sense to raise the overall level of the entire squad. We are in the bottom third for chance creation as it stands so if we were to blow our entire budget on a striker we would still have the problem of a lack of creativity behind whoever that is.
 
I dont care about other positions, If we only have 100m including the money from the sale of other players and the only available quality striker is going for that price I would gladly pay all that money on one quality striker instead of 2 average players.

Would you not swap Hojlund and Zirkzee for Harry Kane 2 years ago?

I'm of the same mind. Buy a proven quality striker even if it means toiling with who we have already.

It would take analysis that I don't have the time for, but my hunch is that of our 15 defeats and 8 draws in the PL, a top quality striker would have clawed back half of those 23 matches into wins. I could wildly off on that, but if I'm not wrong let's go with 8 wins from those 15 defeats and 4 wins from those 8 draws...if my math is right that 32 more points than our current 38 and if my math is right again that's 70 points, which would put us in second place. A lot of ifs I know, but I don't think there is a sentient being on earth who would deny that above all what we lack is a proper striker.

And the table does not lie, nor does our ridiculous goal difference of -8. And it's not so goals allowed that has done us in...it's goals scored. We're more or less level with the 2 through 9 nine clubs in the table on goals allowed, but we're 15tt in terms of goals scored. A proper striker is required above all else and whatever is left over for other players is gravy.
 
May as well stop posting about needing to sign a proven striker as club aren't listening unfortunately
 
I dont care about other positions, If we only have 100m including the money from the sale of other players and the only available quality striker is going for that price I would gladly pay all that money on one quality striker instead of 2 average players.

Would you not swap Hojlund and Zirkzee for Harry Kane 2 years ago?

Both the fees for those 2 were enough to sign a quality striker

For example Guirassy and Retegui both cost a lot less
 
That does not alter the fact that even for 100M the player you want simply is not there. Leaving aside the possibility of signing any bigger names which ranges from slim to none in most cases, there is not a single player potentially on the move this summer who is a certainty to score 20+ goals in the PL.

The club has quite rationally decided that it makes more sense to raise the overall level of the entire squad. We are in the bottom third for chance creation as it stands so if we were to blow our entire budget on a striker we would still have the problem of a lack of creativity behind whoever that is.

You argue two important and related but different points.

If there isn't a proven striker in the market this summer, then of course we'll settle for someone of Delap's level. Maybe he's ready for a breakout with a top club, but maybe. In any event, we can't buy a striker who doesn't exist.

But chance creation is something of a myth. It's a real stat, I don't dispute that, but a striker of the highest quality doesn't depend solely on quality chances being created for him. The days of a striker like Gerg Muller Ruud van Nistelrooy having glorious chances laid on your lap from 6 yards out are long gone. Whoever you are today, if you're going to score 25+ goals you have to have the ability to create your chances by beating your man on the dribble, scoring on shots from distance, or feasting on scraps in the box. There is no David Beckham to put the ball on a gnat's eyebrow. And scoring goals is not just about hard work or ability...it's also or maybe even primarily about anticipation and reading the situation at hand, which neither Hojlund or Zirkzee have in their bloodstream and neither will ever 25+ goal scorers even if gifted them a midfield of Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham. That midfield needed players like Cantona, Cole, Yorke and Ruud -- all players who could make something out of nothing, as well as do something with inch perfect balls, to tally the goals.
 
I'm of the same mind. Buy a proven quality striker even if it means toiling with who we have already.

It would take analysis that I don't have the time for, but my hunch is that of our 15 defeats and 8 draws in the PL, a top quality striker would have clawed back half of those 23 matches into wins. I could wildly off on that, but if I'm not wrong let's go with 8 wins from those 15 defeats and 4 wins from those 8 draws...if my math is right that 32 more points than our current 38 and if my math is right again that's 70 points, which would put us in second place. A lot of ifs I know, but I don't think there is a sentient being on earth who would deny that above all what we lack is a proper striker.

And the table does not lie, nor does our ridiculous goal difference of -8. And it's not so goals allowed that has done us in...it's goals scored. We're more or less level with the 2 through 9 nine clubs in the table on goals allowed, but we're 15tt in terms of goals scored. A proper striker is required above all else and whatever is left over for other players is gravy.
Not to rain on your math here but you are suggesting a wildly improbable impact from 1 player alone.

Just to say 8 wins from 15 defeats means at an absolute minimum this quality striker would have to score a minimum of 16 goals in those 8 games alone. By definition if we lost a game then a single goal scored could at best turn it into a draw and so you would need multiple goals in each of these games to turn them into wins. 16 goals would be good enough for 6th highest scorer in the league this season and you are suggesting they would do this in less than a quarter of our total games played. The striker that can do this does not exist.

Realistically, a very good striker might have been worth an additional 10 to 15 points if they scored in the right games, much better than where we are but nowhere near the 70 points you suggest.
 
At the end of the day Wilcox and McKenna will know this player inside out and where they think he can get too. Also speaks volumes the other teams that are being linked to him, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle to name a few
 
Both the fees for those 2 were enough to sign a quality striker

For example Guirassy and Retegui both cost a lot less
Yeah why we didn't sign Guirassy when he was available for something like €17m I don't know
 
Yeah I cannot for the life of me not understand buying a proven striker, look I get this is bargain price, however has Hojlund not taught us anything this season. I am so disappointed if they aren't keep an open mind on the situation after signing him.
Hojlund was a mistake. We spent 70m for a striker who scored 9 goals in the Serie A was bonkers. The Amad deal was crazy as well. We paid 19m (exc add ons and bonuses) for a player who played like 4 games in the Serie A. Then there was rumors that he wanted Ederson as well. Considering how he negotiated with Atalanta then they would have probably taken us for the cleaners as well. It's almost as if our former DOF wanted to make sure that if things went wrong with United he'll land a good job with them. It's all conspiracy theory of course.

Delap is what Hojlund should have been. He's young, he's promising and his financial package justify his talent and the risk we're taking. The only scenario were Delap-Hojlund would make sense is if

a- we don't find a buyer for Hojlund
b- we don't make it into Europe qualification

We'll probably sign Cunha, all our forwards will be 1 year older, they'll have more time to rest and Amorim will have more time to drill them into decent players. Having said that if we do qualify to the CL then a proven striker is a must. I think United should pursue that (and sell Hojlund) irrespective of CL qualification. Let's bring a proven striker even if he's on the cheap (David, Schick)
 
And why is Delap age relevant to his success? Again, age is not conduit for guaranteed success either way.
Many reasons: longevity, yet to enter physical peak, less mileage on the legs so likely to deal with pressing systems for longer, resale value, lower wage demands*

It isn’t a conduit for success but it does also protect us a bit against failure.

*typically but admittedly this is speculation
I think most available strikers will look appealing when contrasted against Hojlund's performances this year. If we're simply going for the cheapest option, Jonathan David might be worth a look. As for getting the same amount of goals as he did at Ipswich....I'd love to confidently say he would, but as we've seen with our current striker, one never knows how they are going adapt at playing a big club.
True. But I’d never suggested we are just going for the cheapest option, and I also think David would be entirely ill suited to the PL but could do well in La Liga or Serie A.

I think when we look at the physical and technical profiles of players Delap makes an awful lot of sense for our side for that price. Were he upwards of £50m I wouldn’t be wanting him so of course there is a limit to how much I rate him. That said I’d argue while we can never be 100% confident of a signing he appears to have the tools to do some useful things for our side and makes the kinds of runs I’d expect us to be able to pick out.
 
Hojlund was a mistake. We spent 70m for a striker who scored 9 goals in the Serie A was bonkers. The Amad deal was crazy as well. We paid 19m (exc add ons and bonuses) for a player who played like 4 games in the Serie A. Then there was rumors that he wanted Ederson as well. Considering how he negotiated with Atalanta then they would have probably taken us for the cleaners as well. It's almost as if our former DOF wanted to make sure that if things went wrong with United he'll land a good job with them. It's all conspiracy theory of course.

Delap is what Hojlund should have been. He's young, he's promising and his financial package justify his talent and the risk we're taking. The only scenario were Delap-Hojlund would make sense is if

a- we don't find a buyer for Hojlund
b- we don't make it into Europe qualification

We'll probably sign Cunha, all our forwards will be 1 year older, they'll have more time to rest and Amorim will have more time to drill them into decent players. Having said that if we do qualify to the CL then a proven striker is a must. I think United should pursue that (and sell Hojlund) irrespective of CL qualification. Let's bring a proven striker even if he's on the cheap (David, Schick)
Yeah we simply have to sign a proven striker like you say irrespective of CL qualification. Obviously the options will be reduced without being able to offer it. I just haven't seen anything yet to suggest we want to bring in an experienced number 9 too.
 
May as well stop posting about needing to sign a proven striker as club aren't listening unfortunately

Who do you want them to sign? Kane? Lewdandoski?

Or the bright shiny summer toy that is Osimhen who will demand ridiculous wages and has no real desire to play for the club, a signing and mistake we have made time and time again.

By going for delap the club is at least trying to learn from mistakes of the past.
 
Agree with this, feel very much like United of old when we used to pick up young British talents like Daniel James for reasonable prices.
Him and Cunha's combined 26 goals this season comes from a combined 16 xG. And both had been net underperformers up until this point.

I sure as shit hope our recruitment team knows what it's doing. Because on face value, there's an obvious risk of both their goals dropping-off simply through hot finishing streaks ending.

With Delap in particular, you're really depending on him becoming a better player in a better team.
This feels like the sort of thing I’ve said in the last few summer windows. Something along the lines of ‘I hope the club/manager sees something I don’t, because on the face of it this is a baffling decision’, only for that thing to happen like we all thought it would.

Things like signing mason mount, paying 85m for Antony, signing old players like Casemiro, not signing a striker for like 3 years, extending the contracts of players who only show up when it’s time to sign them…

Not saying I know better than the club, but there’s some things that you can just tell aren’t going to work before we do them.
 
Who do you want them to sign? Kane? Lewdandoski?

Or the bright shiny summer toy that is Osimhen who will demand ridiculous wages and has no real desire to play for the club, a signing and mistake we have made time and time again.

By going for delap the club is at least trying to learn from mistakes of the past.
Well as discussed with @devilish Shick or Sesko have impressive stats particularly aerially. Obviously Gyokeres is the ideal target but clearly he wants to go elsewhere so off the table.
 
Well as discussed with @devilish Shick or Sesko have impressive stats particularly aerially. Obviously Gyokeres is the ideal target but clearly he wants to go elsewhere so off the table.
Schick could be intriguing but you have to factor in that he is 29 with a pretty lengthy injury history and has not been that prolific in all bar a couple of his seasons. The price could be lowish, around 30M, but that is only if Leverkusen agree to sell which is not certain. Sesko is not certain to agree to a move at this point, he seems to be being very deliberate about his career progress so far, if he does move then the release clause is around 80M for a player with a similar goal scoring record to Delap in an easier league so no certainty of success there. I just don't see that there is anyone who is available and is going to bring a certainty of better production than Delap, it is just not a great market for strikers at the moment.
 
I'd take him. I like who we're linked with so far. Would much rather a Cunha and Delap than 2 random young attackers from the Serie A.
 
Depends what you really want from a CF isn't it? Forget the age of the player and instead look at the raw statistics. Whoscored has 28 players who have played the CF position with 720+ mins in the PL. Zirkzee and Hojlund are both in this list of 28.

Minute per Shot:
18th | Delap - 40.2mins
24th | Zirkzee - 48.0mins
28th | Hojlund - 85.5mins

Shooting Accuracy:
3rd | Zirkzee - 60.0%
6th | Delap - 48.3%
9th | Hojlund - 47.0%

Conversion Rate:
10th | Delap - 19.0%
11th | Hojlund - 17.7%
17th= | Zirkzee - 13.3%

Successful Dribbles:
4th | Delap - 47.3%
6th | Zirkzee - 46.2%
19th= | Hojlund - 33.3%

Successful Aerial Duels:
8th | Delap - 44.6%
22nd | Zirkzee - 33.3%
25th | Hojlund - 23.0%

I haven't looked at passing data. But from the above he'd certainly be a vast improvement on Hojlund.
 
I expect Delap to do better but a lot of what you are saying is projection. Delap has operated with a lot more space due to teams playing a high line against Ipswich and this has afforded him a lot more time on the ball than Rasmus has typically been given. Yes he is better in the air but 99% of footballers are as that is Hojlund's most glaring weakness, despite that Delap has not scored a single headed goal so yes he is better but he is not actually very good in this area.

I am mostly ok with the signing of Delap but I do not agree that he is a sure thing to be better than Hojlund in the long run. Liam could just as easily regress with us next season and finish in single digits although I am hoping that fixing some of the other glaring issues with the side will mean he is set up with a better chance for success than Rasmus has been during the car crash of the last 2 seasons.
I think thats fair - I didnt put too much thought into how he'd be vs a low block and how that affects his game. That being said, his physicality and willingness to be a nuisance would cause a lot more havoc for defenders than what Hojlund has offered, and I think that would lead to gaps in the opposition's defensive structure.
 
Zirkzee isn't a CF so I can't see United (aka Amorim) being happy with Delap IN and Hojlund OUT.

It would leave the team too short, so if Hojlund does leave then I think you would want Delap and maybe a cheap experience CF as well.

Which makes me think Hojlund is staying...if the target is Delap.
 
I think thats fair - I didnt put too much thought into how he'd be vs a low block and how that affects his game. That being said, his physicality and willingness to be a nuisance would cause a lot more havoc for defenders than what Hojlund has offered, and I think that would lead to gaps in the opposition's defensive structure.

Underlying stats definitely suggest he is more of a physical nuisance and more direct at the very least and he takes a lot more shots which to be totally basic has to improve his performance in line with the old cliche of you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, as we have seen far too often with Rasmus this season.
 
Yeah I cannot for the life of me not understand buying a proven striker, look I get this is bargain price, however has Hojlund not taught us anything this season. I am so disappointed if they aren't keep an open mind on the situation after signing him.

I agree with the general sentiment, but I just don't think Delap is the player who will get us there. He will be marginally better than Hojlund, but won't come near the level of quality that will drag us from 15th to 4th anytime soon, even with Cunha contributing goals.
We’ve got £90m ish cash and another £90m ish from the RCF (which I’d assume we’d like to avoid using).

We’ve got more than one position to sort.

Who’d you go for up front?
 
OK seeing as you asked here are four

Watkins - He can't be happy with the current situation at Villa and has proven himself

Mbuemo - 18 league goals for Brentford is phenomenal return in my opinion

Mateta - Scored a cracking goal last night and 14 league goals is a very decent return for Palace

Wood - Yes I will admit age is a factor but you can't argue with 19 league goals for Forest

There is no doubt Isak is the boat that we missed, however that applies to most other teams too, in terms of Gyokeres I am convinced he will be joining Arsenal which is frustrating.

Watkins - better right now but too old. We’re building a team here, enough stopgaps. Would cost twice the price too

Mbuemo - not really a striker. Plays more as a RW.

Mateta - similar goalscoring stats this year, 5 years older. Don’t see him as being significantly better

Wood - come on now
 
Watkins - better right now but too old. We’re building a team here, enough stopgaps. Would cost twice the price too

Mbuemo - not really a striker. Plays more as a RW.

Mateta - similar goalscoring stats this year, 5 years older. Don’t see him as being significantly better

Wood - come on now

And doesn’t Mbuemos tally include quite a lot of penalties (which he wouldn’t take for us)?
 
At the end of the day Wilcox and McKenna will know this player inside out and where they think he can get too. Also speaks volumes the other teams that are being linked to him, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle to name a few
Ye but it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t flop at either of those teams, or he could shine at them teams because there more settled than we are. Also some of the players we’ve signed over the years have been linked with city, Fred and maguire to name a couple.