Liam Delap | £30m release clause?

[Raoul]

That's a bit hyperbolic, is it not? Forest, of all teams, managed to catch up Arsenal before us. Liverpool overtook them without signing a single player! Gyokeres isn't going to transform them. He'll improve them, but where Arsenal have struggled, Gyokeres doesn't exactly excel. He does a lot of his best work with space to run into and down the channels. He hasn't played against low block teams, from what I can see, so I wouldn't be sure he's as transformative as people think.

Well they haven't exactly caught up with them since Arsenal are 5 points ahead and will almost certainly finish second. But I'm glad you brought up Forest, since they are a good example of how a club in 17th can rocket up the table to 3rd in less than 12 months with quality coaching and recruitment. If we get our striker and a solid #10 and/or wide player like Cherki then I'm 99% we will be in a similar predicament next year, especially when all our injured players are back.

On the other hand, if Gyokeres goes to Arsenal - a team who are well coached and have excelled over the past 3 years without a proper striker, then you are probably looking at a club that will go on a league run over the next few years. There's no hyperbole in suggesting a team that finishes 2nd every year would probably win the league by adding a prolific striker.

 

[romufc]

He could go as low as 55m.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/44536417/transfer-rumors-news-viktor-gyokeres-available-55m

And frankly, the numbers become somewhat irrelevant when trophies are won. You have to go for the very best player available, just as we did with every striker from Ruud onwards.

Could is the crucial word there... as things stand, the release clause stands at 80m. We will see in the summer, he may go for for less but that isn't guaranteed.

Likewise with Delap, he could go for less than 40m, depending on Ipswich's situation.

We are not looking to win the league next year... so if we go by Berrada's timeline of 2028... thats 3 years time, where Gyokeres would be 30 and a younger striker signed now would be coming into the prime.

 

[KD6-3.7]

I know there's a shortage of great strikers around but the club is doing themselves no favours by getting these young ones who are clearly not going to be good enough for the level that we aspire to be again.

 

[Lash]

Well they haven't exactly caught up with them since Arsenal are 5 points ahead and will almost certainly finish second. But I'm glad you brought up Forest, since they are a good example of how a club in 17th can rocket up the table to 3rd in less than 12 months with quality coaching and recruitment. If we get our striker and a solid #10 and/or wide player like Cherki then I'm 99% we will be in a similar predicament next year, especially when all our injured players are back.

On the other hand, if Gyokeres goes to Arsenal - a team who are well coached and have excelled over the past 3 years without a proper striker, then you are probably looking at a club who will go on a league run over the next few years. There's no hyperbole in suggesting a team that finishes 2nd every year would probably win the league by adding a prolific striker.

I would say being within 5 points of someone from the position they're in is catching up! Their striker or #10 is hardly anything to fawn over, it's just a well organised and physical team. It's not like anyone was screaming for Chris Wood in the summer. I think if we get the balance of our team right, it will be more impactful that pinning things on a prolific striker or a creative player. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, which I think Liverpool and Forest are model examples of. Arsenal are a great example of how just signing players that don't balance your team, means you stagnate.

I know the difference is like £15m, but that cold be the difference in affording that extra players we need - ie the wingback/CM is £45m but now our budget only stretches to £30m. I'm pretty sure the hierachy will want a close as possible to positive net spend this summer, so the bean coutners will be coming down hard on spending differences.

 

[romufc]

Anyone picking Delap over an established player like Gyokeres is simply just talking Glazernomics. Gyokeres is a player Amorin wants as his no1 choice. Why are we accepting 3-4 choice players? When Amorin finishes outside the top 4 next season due to a lack of goals, the very same people will be calling for him to be sacked. We are paying 30-40 million in interest payments alone each year. The lack of money is just spin from GLINOES, if Chelsea can find a way around it we can.

So you have been watching alot fo Mark Goldbridge I see... the term GLINEOS. If that is the case.. shows more about you listening to someone like him.

Yes, you make alot of sense... a team that wont get CL football from league position that needs 6/7 players to become a well functioning team should go spend 80m on a striker... because guess what signing a 80m striker will solve all our problems.

So you want to use Chelsea as an example and standard, I can imagine you having kittens if INEOS started selling Manutd infrastructure to INEOS to raise money.

I guess this is where you only look at one thing... Chelsea have not signed any established player since Boehly took over... should we adopt their strategy of stockpiling loads of U21 players then too?

 

[Giggsyking]

Oshimen in his career including this one has had 2 seasons with 20 + league goals at 26... so no, I do not think the risk of him flopping is low, I would argue Oshimen is the highest risk of flopping for a multitued of reasons...

Gyokeres has never played in a top 5 league, there is no difference between the Portugese and Dutch league, we have seen what the Dutch league players are like for us...

Whilst we dont have time to babysit young players... we dont have time for a 27 year old to settle into English football either...

I have actually done a working out above which shows that Gyokeres would cost us double in the 5 year period to Delap...

Gyokeres current release clause is 80m.

It's not a question of whether he is good enough or not, to me he is not even an obviously talented striker. Yes he has some good traits. He might be a good striker in 5 years, but no, we do not need him now. Every signing is a risk, but I would rather risk it on someone who already scored tons of goals and won something instead of a kid with limited qualities from a relegated team.

 

[Giggsyking]

I would say being within 5 points of someone from the position they're in is catching up! Their striker or #10 is hardly anything to fawn over, it's just a well organised and physical team. It's not like anyone was screaming for Chris Wood in the summer. I think if we get the balance of our team right, it will be more impactful that pinning things on a prolific striker or a creative player. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, which I think Liverpool and Forest are model examples of. Arsenal are a great example of how just signing players that don't balance your team, means you stagnate.

I know the difference is like £15m, but that cold be the difference in affording that extra players we need - ie the wingback/CM is £45m but now our budget only stretches to £30m. I'm pretty sure the hierachy will want a close as possible to positive net spend this summer, so the bean coutners will be coming down hard on spending differences.

I would rather two quality players than 3 mediocre. We should never repeat the mistake of Hojlund and Zirkzee, they both cost us 110m. That would have been a world class attacker.

 

[Tallis]

There is some news that Amorim wanted Delap at Sporting when he first took charge. If that is the case, I think there is some real legs to this transfer.

Chelsea is apparently also very keen.

 

[Lash]

I would rather two quality players than 3 mediocre. We should never repeat the mistake of Hojlund and Zirkzee, they both cost us 110m. That would have been a world class attacker.

Why is he mediocre all of a sudden?

 

[romufc]

It's not a question of whether he is good enough or not, to me he is not even an obviously talented striker. Yes he has some good traits. He might be a good striker in 5 years, but no, we do not need him now. Every signing is a risk, but I would rather risk it on someone who already scored tons of goals and won something instead of a kid with limited qualities from a relegated team.

This is the sort of arrogance that has got us here... go buy Oshimen for 70m with 250k wages... doesn't work out and you will blame the club for overpaying.. We have seen the script before.

Oshimen has scored 20+ league goals once in his career...

Liverpool bough Andy Robertston from a relegated team and became the best LB in his peak.

Signing from a relegated team does not mean he will never improve.

 

[DWelbz19]

Funny enough.. all you do is moan but give no solution.

Oh we need an experienced striker who scores 12+ league goals in Europe's top divisions regularly, but cannot give options.

Just critical only.

I’m not a professional scout, it’s not my job to sign players for Manchester United. I also don’t have the free time and fervour for football as I did when I was younger to meticulously watch other leagues. I’m just pointing out the dangers and obvious risks of ending up with three strikers who are all aged 22-24 without substantial histories of goal tallies behind them.

I’ve never once claimed Delap is a poor player, or anything, I’ve just made some very obvious observations and you seem to take umbrage as if I’m bemoaning the world will fall down. Relax.

 

[romufc]

I’m not a professional scout, it’s not my job to sign players for Manchester United. I also don’t have the free time and fervour for football as I did when I was younger to meticulously watch other leagues. I’m just pointing out the dangers and obvious risks of ending up with three strikers who are all aged 22-24 without substantial histories of goal tallies behind them.

I’ve never once claimed Delap is a poor player, or anything, I’ve just made some very obvious observations and you seem to take umbrage as if I’m bemoaning the world will fall down. Relax.

So you are not a scout... so how can you call a player average?

How can you tell someone is an average player if you have not scouted him?

If that is the case... you should just wait to see who the club signs?

Funnelling these average strike rate young forwards into the biggest club in England in a system that barely screams chance creation and everything is polemic will only end one way

 

[Raoul]

Funny thing is Delap has scored 12 league goals in one of the top leagues in the world. I'm genuinely not sure what else we could ask of someone for their debut season, for a relegation side.

You're probably making the points of those who are dubious of Delap. He's done it for an anonymous side where there's no pressure for him to perform. As Amorim has said about Antony and Rashford, the moment you take someone out of the pressure of being at United, they tend to do well. When they're at United, its often a different story.

 

[DWelbz19]

So you are not a scout... so how can you call a player average?

How can you tell someone is an average player if you have not scouted him?

If that is the case... you should just wait to see who the club signs?

Let’s just close the entire forum and not let anyone make comments until all the players have been signed and the season is over.

 

[Raoul]

So you are not a scout... so how can you call a player average?

How can you tell someone is an average player if you have not scouted him?

If that is the case... you should just wait to see who the club signs?

Its a football forum, so its a pretty normal thing for people to give their opinions on how good, bad, or average footballers are.

 

[Giggsyking]

This is the sort of arrogance that has got us here... go buy Oshimen for 70m with 250k wages... doesn't work out and you will blame the club for overpaying.. We have seen the script before.

Oshimen has scored 20+ league goals once in his career...

Liverpool bough Andy Robertston from a relegated team and became the best LB in his peak.

Signing from a relegated team does not mean he will never improve.

Are you comparing a CF to LB?

Nobody will ask a LB to assist goals from day 1. While the striker is required to deliver instantly.

I can accept a good young talent on the LB but not a striker.

The pressure of scoring goals coupled with the pressure of a big club and winning trophies is something that Delap never experienced.

No, buying an unproven young player (probably average talent) is a stupid mistake that we should absolutely avoid.

 

[Giggsyking]

So you are not a scout... so how can you call a player average?

How can you tell someone is an average player if you have not scouted him?

If that is the case... you should just wait to see who the club signs?

It doesn't need a scout to see he is average at best at the moment. Could improve? Probably, but he better learn the job at a small club, not Manchester United.

 

[romufc]

Its a football discussion forum. So its a pretty normal thing for people to give their opinions on how good, bad, or average footballers are.

I get that... but you can't tell me x player is average then I ask... who would you prefer to sign and say.. I am not a scout, its not up to me, not my job

 

[romufc]

Are you comparing a CF to LB?

Nobody will ask a LB to assist goals from day 1. While the striker is required to deliver instantly.

I can accept a good young talent on the LB but not a striker.

The pressure of scoring goals coupled with the pressure of a big club and winning trophies is something that Delap never experienced.

No, buying an unproven young player (probably average talent) is a stupid mistake that we should absolutely avoid.

I am comparing the signings yes.

Its like comparing Serie A or Portugese league stats and thinking its the same as the PL....

The pressure of playing at a club like Manutd is different to Napoli where there is no pressure to win the league, in which oshimen has not experienced either.

 

[romufc]

Let’s just close the entire forum and not let anyone make comments until all the players have been signed and the season is over.

No, only for you. Its funny you only make negative... cant do this, cant do that... but when asked what shall we do... "Its not my job".

 

[Lash]

You're probably making the points of those who are dubious of Delap. He's done it for an anonymous side where there's no pressure for him to perform. As Amorim has said about Antony and Rashford, the moment you take someone out of the pressure of being at United, they tend to do well. When they're at United, its often a different story.

I just don't really see it as a valid point because it's the same with any signing for United. The same applies to Sesko, Osimhen, Gyokeres. The most important thing is he's done it in the league and not everyone can make that transition. Antony is a very good example, because in Spain he looks absolutely rapid and here he looked like he didn't have the pace needed.

 

[Raoul]

I just don't really see it as a valid point because it's the same with any signing for United. The same applies to Sesko, Osimhen, Gyokeres. The most important thing is he's done it in the league and not everyone can make that transition. Antony is a very good example, because in Spain he looks absolutely rapid and here he looked like he didn't have the pace needed.

To an extent yes, but also not quite given that the latter three have scored a hell of a lot of goals including in the CL. So even if one were to dismiss the leagues they play in, they still bring a lot of Champions League experience to the table, which can't be casually dismissed as an easy competition. The broader point being that Amorim is correct. Its one thing to do it elsewhere, but you just never know how a player adapts to the pressure of being a starting #9 at United - Hojlund, who is more or less Delap's age, being a prime example.

 

[romufc]

To an extent yes, but also not quite given that the latter three have scored a hell of a lot of goals including in the CL. So even if one were to dismiss the leagues they play in, they still bring a lot of Champions League experience to the table, which can't be casually dismissed as an easy competition. The broader point being that Amorim is correct. Its one thing to do it elsewhere, but you just never know how a player adapts to the pressure of being a starting #9 at United - Hojlund, who is more or less Delap's age, being a prime example.

The thing is... SJR has said he would rather find the next big player than buy.

So... like you say Oshimen who has scored tons of goals... he has managed to get 20+ league goals once in his entire career.

3 years ago Gyokeres was playing in the championship.

I am sure fans would be saying why would we sign someone from the championship... 3 years later when he is 85m release clause wonder why we can't find these players.

You cant keep moaning we dont find these players, when we do moan that we dont sign proven players.

 

[Lash]

To an extent yes, but also not quite given that the latter three have scored a hell of a lot of goals including in the CL. So even if one were to dismiss the leagues they play in, they still bring a lot of Champions League experience to the table, which can't be casually dismissed as an easy competition. The broader point being that Amorim is correct. Its one thing to do it elsewhere, but you just never know how a player adapts to the pressure of being a starting #9 at United - Hojlund, who is more or less Delap's age, being a prime example.

As I work in finance, I am obliged to say past performance is no inidicator of future performance, but it's a fair point. That being said, Hojlunds is only 1 goal behind Gyokeres in the CL and they've got the same in the Europa, so make of that what you will. I am totally on board with that broader point, which is why I'm not sure why people can point to people's records at smaller clubs as a reason why they'd definitely translate it to the high pressure of United. If anything there's more pressure to replicate, which is not a given.

 

[bond19821982]

Cunha, Delap ,Bruno and Mount. Will have enough goals there i hope.

 

[Tallis]

Cunha, Delap ,Bruno and Mount. Will have enough goals there i hope.

Add another 10 - say Cherki and I am happy.

 

[2 man midfield]

There is some news that Amorim wanted Delap at Sporting when he first took charge. If that is the case, I think there is some real legs to this transfer.

Chelsea is apparently also very keen.

It sounds like the sort of thing that should be bollocks, until you remember he signed Gyokeres from Coventry. Somebody in his staff obviously has an eye on the championship.

 

[PeteManic]

No striker will survive in the current system with the current group of players.

 

[Giggsyking]

Cunha, Delap ,Bruno and Mount. Will have enough goals there i hope.

We should not sign Delap and we should sell Mount as soon as possible. None of them are good enough for a club of our size.

 

[Adnan]

I don't think we can go into next season with Liam Delap as our main striker. Whilst he


I think in the long run, Sesko will have a better career and if the fees were the same, Sesko would be the pick each and every single time. Interestingly enough, in an article done by the Athletic when you look at similar forwards to Gyokeres, Hojlund projects quite high if you look at attributes. Therefore I don't know if it makes sense to get the same type of forward with Delap. I think the only difference between the two is confidence. Delap also doesn't have the greatest pedigree in goalscoring as he did struggle in the Championship with Hull.

I rather we get Ekitike who has such a varied skillset and is a good allrounder. He would be a good addition to the squad and despite concerns over his physicality, he has similar physical stats to Isak who manages to hold up well in the EPL. I think Ekitike as no 9 with Hojlund on the bench makes a lot of sense from a talent and squad perspective.

I think too much is made of the central striker as far as how many goals he can score and very little is made of how we as a team can score 80+ goals in a league campaign. When Van Nistelrooij was signed in 2001 along with Seba Veron we had a embarrassment of riches in midfield and even defense, so it made sense to try and put that cherry on top of the cake in a team that was arguably the best in England along with Arsenal.

So the question is that how do we as a team create a proactive, attacking system which allows us to build play from the back and into midfield at a high level, also aids us in our aim to play higher up the pitch, which in-turn makes the pressing from the front more effective. This is how you score 80+ goals in the league by having the vision to implement a system of play by signing players who can carry out the plan on the pitch which requires high quality technical ability on the ball which is then backed up by the pace and physicality to defend space higher up the pitch in 1v1s out of possession.

We've had more prolific central goal scorers in our team than the likes of City and Liverpool and still we haven't been able to out score those teams. We've had Zlatan, Lukaku and even Cavani who are all players who are more prolific than someone like Roberto Firminho, but Liverpool still scored more goals than us.

With how the game has evolved in England in the last 15 years where teams are playing with more risk in higher defensive lines and using the high press as the first line of their defense. It's absolutely imperative that our own central and half spaces in our own half of the pitch are occupied by players who are not only comfortable on the ball against the press but can also defend bigger spaces in a higher defensive line against quick opposition transitions. So what I'm emphasising here is the importance of that area of the pitch where the CBs and deeper midfielders will have to first come under pressure from the oppositions high pressure tactics and then the same players will have to defend space in 1v1 situations against the opponent's transitions. If we fail to address this issue, we won't score a lot of goals because a team that doesn't have the tools to control the game in their own central and half spaces will revert to playing counter attacking football and ceding the possession to any quality team.

I think we do need to recruit players in the forward lines with Rashford and Antony both looking to leave. But I think the priority should be to make our deeper build up phase of a high quality and the same players who will be tasked with building the play against the press will also have to control the transition in a higher line. These are difficult tasks and the correct profile of players with the requisite attributes, need to be brought to the club to make us more of a dominant team. Failing to recognise this as a problem will only prolong our ceding the possession to any quality team and hence playing on the counter.

Apart from Sesko I don't really know a great deal about the rest of the young centre forwards. But if someone like Delap can come in and contribute in a positive way without us breaking the bank as far as transfer fee and wages. Then I think it would definitely help our rebuild potential because it would allow us to raise the level of the team in our central and half spaces in our own own half which is absolutely crucial towards building a proactive attacking system in the present day EPL.

 

[Cassidy]

Who said Gyokeres or Oshimen are 55-60m? His current release clause is 80m. There are reports there is a verbal agreement to leave for less, but we all know verbal agreements mean f all.

Gyokeres is now in his final big contract , he will be 27 in June, so he will want 200k wages as his big transfer, as there are multiple clubs in for him.

Gyokeres - 65m + 200k for 5 years will cost the club 118m
Delap - £40m + 100k for 5 years will cost 66m.

So almost double... not really low is it?

So you ask me who said then refer to the reports? Its widely reported what his fee will likely be so thats what my post was based on.

118m is low for a player of his caliber if you are including wages. That is not far off where you expect the transfer fee alone to be in this market

No one said low in relation to Delap they are not in the same stratosphere in terms of quality. Low is in relation to CFs of his calibre, same goes for Osimhen

When you factor in quality if you have the chance to get Gyokeres for 60m + 180-200k wages over Delap for 40m + 100k you take Gyokeres all day.

 

[Cassidy]

Cunha, Delap ,Bruno and Mount. Will have enough goals there i hope.

Mount? Are you serious?

 

[georgipep]

Right... I guess we have different opinions of trendy... Mine is when everyone is looking at the player based on some form and they are priced highly. Just have a look at the thread below.. 9% of fans want him... but apparently he is trendy and Oshimen who is at 24% isn't trendy..

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/striker-poll-who-should-we-buy.486972/page-16#post-33102946
=

Example... Ferguson was trendy based on 6 months form and he got valued at 100m due to trend... surprise surprise no one signed him for 100m as he only scored 6 PL goals.

Delap, not someone I am saying we should sign, has been rated quite highly from a young age from his numbers in the youth teams, since then he has played 2/3 season in the championship and has shown he can score in the PL too.

Comparing Ferguson and Delap is a bit silly...

Osimhen hasn't just scored some goals recently though. He has been one of the strikers we've been linked with for a few years.

Regardless, I don't really have an opinion on who Manchester United should aim to get. Haven't watched nearly enough of the 3 most wanted players.

 

[georgipep]

The signs were really there with Evan Ferguson though. Practically all his goals seemed to come from indirect set pieces and he offered little in open play. Brighton play better football with Welbeck or Pedro leading the line, with Ferguson mostly useful off the bench, until he couldn't make that. I don't know how that translates to him ever having had a £100m valuation but well done United for not paying it, as I'm sure it was a temptation at some point.

100% agree!

 

[romufc]

So you ask me who said then refer to the reports? Its widely reported what his fee will likely be so thats what my post was based on.

118m is low for a player of his caliber if you are including wages. That is not far off where you expect the transfer fee alone to be in this market

No one said low in relation to Delap they are not in the same stratosphere in terms of quality. Low is in relation to CFs of his calibre, same goes for Osimhen

When you factor in quality if you have the chance to get Gyokeres for 60m + 180-200k wages over Delap for 40m + 100k you take Gyokeres all day.

Erm.... how many strikers have gone for 118m if that is the norm?

 

[Marwood]

I'm not exactly desperate to sign him but if he ends up on 15 league goals this season playing for Ipswich you hVe to say that's an Impressive return.

Remember Zlatan got 17 for us in the lesgue and was rated an incredible success.

 

[Cassidy]

Erm.... how many strikers have gone for 118m if that is the norm?

I said not far off not an exact fee.

80-95m range is where I would have expected the fee to be without wages

 

[romufc]

I said not far off not an exact fee.

80-95m range is where I would have expected the fee to be without wages

80-95m is an expensive striker.... a WC striker.. someone who has shown it in Europes top divisions... not the Portugese league.

 

[Cassidy]

80-95m is an expensive striker.... a WC striker.. someone who has shown it in Europes top divisions... not the Portugese league.

Like Darwin Nunez?
Given the Hojlund, Ramos fees too I think its obvious the CF market has inflated fees

 

[romufc]

Like Darwin Nunez?
Given the Hojlund, Ramos fees too I think its obvious the CF market has inflated fees

Exactly... a flop.

You are further reinforcing my point... no point signing expensive flops.

Thanks.