Let's not buy Raiola players again - ever

It would be pointless any one club making a stand against such agents as they would just move to another club willing to pay them. Only if you had a packed with the top 50 biggest spending clubs in Europe not use certain agents would it make any impact at all.

At the end of the day they work for their clients and if the players aren't strong enough to tell an agent that they don't want to move etc then more fool them, but I think it's more likely that the players are happy for the agents to look like the bad guys while they get away with looking a little naive.

If Fifa brought legislation that players pay the agents in full as a % of there contract and also outlaw player signing on fees so then there is no incentive for them just to move clubs for another payday.
 
Agents like him make most of their income in agent fee. It’s against their interest to allow a player to stay with a club for too long.
 
roonster09 said:
Verratti - at PSG for many years after signing from Serie B team
Donnarumma - At Milan for last 3-4 years and didn't move to any club
Manolas - At Roma from 2014 after siging from Greek league
Moise Kean - At Juventus, their academy player
Mkhitaryan - Moved from Dortmund to ManUtd and then was forced out from ManUtd
Matuidi - Moved from PSG to Juventus when he wasn't needed
Balotelli - He was offloaded from every club except Inter
Kluivert - Signed for Roma from Dutch league
Zlatan - Only club where he forced his move was from Inter. Juve were relegated so he had to move. He was sold by Milan for financial reasons.
Maxwell - Stayed at various clubs for many years

It's not Raiola, it's the players who wants to leave.
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Fair point.
I just don't think that agents these days are telling players to spend more time focusing on their abilities, as much as they want them to build a bigger personal brand, make themselves more famous, making their value higher and then getting a bigger pay check.
A decent mentality is that you become a great player, build up the team around you and then leave when it's time for a new challenge.
The high-stock players of the market currently doesn't include any of the above, when exception maybe on Kean and Donnarumma. Donnarumma did make a big fuss, wanting to leave if his brother didn't join. And Moise Kean just last year had his breakthrough in what is a major CL contender anyways.
 
VP89 said:
How can we plan for the long term if we have one player on silly wages clogging up a key spot in the team who wants out, whose sale could fund 3 other positions to solve in the team?
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If you are not a useless club, it's extremely simple. You have the player on a 5 years contract, so at best you expect him to be here for 5 years but you still monitor the market and make sure to have alternatives from year 3 of his contract which is also the year where you contact his agent for a potential extension in the next 18 months. You only get into trouble when you are foolish enough to assume that players will be at the club for a longer period than their contract and don't anticipate. Also at a club like United, Pogba clogs nothing from a financial standpoint, we could send him in the stand for the rest of his contract and barely feel it, we are as wealthy as Barcelona and Real Madrid who are both perfectly happy to bench players on similar wages.
 
You mean ‘let’s not buy world class players again while we languish in 6th and outside of the CL, as they may want to leave’.
 
Not only should we never buy players from Raiola again, we should sell every client he has at United and then ask our lawyers if we have grounds for taking out a restraining order against him so that he can never set foot on United property again.
 
Rozay said:
You mean ‘let’s not buy world class players again while we languish in 6th and outside of the CL, as they may want to leave’.
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Yeah. Go make up a team of Pogbas and Neymars and mix them with homegrown players.
See how well they handle rough patches.
 
It would only hamstring us further. All agents are leaches, he's just a very good leach.

The only way out of this is to build your youth setup to generate decent players, so you don't have to rely on the market all the time.
 
Maybe Woodward has decided not to deal with any agent - hence no transfer activity! On De Light: I'd take him for three years and then let him moved if he wanted to - he's that good and would transform our defence in that time
 
The Nani said:
You really think he and Raiola didn’t have one eye on another big money move to sunny Spain after a few years ?
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Not if we upheld our end of the bargain (building a good team who would challenge for trophies). But equally there would be no chance in hell he'd stick around forever if we didn't do that. Unfortunately we know which one happened.

I expect we'll refuse to sell Pogba this window and he'll still be here next season. On the unfortunately slim chance we get our shit together and really push towards the top he may change his mind again and sign a new contract. Unfortunately it's unlikely and he'll be sold at the end of next season.

Literally any top player we sign will come to us with the identical plan. They will come to us with the goal of being a big part in turning us around, but ultimately if it doesn't happen they will leave as they won't want to waste their careers. That goes for the likes of De Ligt, Sancho and others that are being name dropped. Does anyone seriously think the likes of Keane, Rio, Ruud, Rooney, etc would have been any different in the past? Hell, even the likes of Giggs would eventually have left if we were as big a mess as we have been during Pogba's time.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
This with bells on. He left a much better side for a promise of a Jose Mourinho and Zlatan revived Manchester United. He left winning Serie A titles and a team that the went to a CL final for a team that keeps missing out on even qualifying for the fecking competition.

Pogba then gets abused by the Stretford End and some fans act shocked that he thinks it might be better to move on? My lord take off those rose-tinted glasses. As Sarni says, we should sign any agents players and the way to keep them is to build a side that plays enjoyable football and challenges for titles.
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I'm torn between being sick of the prima donnas, let's get back to basics, play the hungry kids etc. and this viewpoint, which you set out well. While I do think it's of paramount importance to rebuild the team ethos around hard work and hunger it's unrealistic to think we could get back to where we need to be with kids and bargain buys. I know if we want to be among the very best teams again we need to hold our noses and deal with big agents and big egos, and (un)fortunately we have two examples of how we could go about doing this in 2019/20 in close geographical proximity.
 
Lynty said:
Being professional doesn't have to mean he stays silent.

As long as he turns up and does what he's paid to do whilst he's contracted to United, despite his personal feelings, thats being professional. I'm sure he'll do that this season and he'll be at Madrid for the one after.
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It kind of does. Even in my job I can’t go about talking negatively about where I work which Pogba has done numerous times. And Pogba earns what I do in a year in a day.
 
Honestly, people need to bin off this notion they have of loyalty. Players are shown no loyalty by clubs and fans and yet inexplicably expect to receive it from them. They will do what is best for their career, and that's fine. It should be the clubs job to ensure the players we want think we are the best option for them.
 
ivaldo said:
Honestly, people need to bin off this notion they have of loyalty. Players are shown no loyalty by clubs and fans and yet inexplicably expect to receive it from them. They will do what is best for their career, and that's fine. It should be the clubs job to ensure the players we want think we are the best option for them.
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This 100%.
 
ivaldo said:
Honestly, people need to bin off this notion they have of loyalty. Players are shown no loyalty by clubs and fans and yet inexplicably expect to receive it from them. They will do what is best for their career, and that's fine. It should be the clubs job to ensure the players we want think we are the best option for them.
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Exactly.
 
The Nani said:
You really think he and Raiola didn’t have one eye on another big money move to sunny Spain after a few years ?
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I don't know. He has valid reasons for wanting to leave the club, and it has nothing to do with money.

He actually came here for the money. He had no reason to join United from Juventus.
 
It’s the players decision at the end of the day.

Also Ibra you need to take a look at his career. He left Ajax for Juventus. They had that whole cheating thing going on, so was forced to move to Inter. Inter then got a crazy deal for him, one of the best in history and he got to go to Barca. He didn’t really fit at Barca and Pep wanted him out for the year. At that time Juve were still struggling. Inter had Milito and Eto. So only real option if he was to return to Italy was Milan. Don’t think teams in England were interested in him at the time. City had just signed Aguero. Chelsea had Drogba and Fergie never really showed any real interest in Ibra because he probably didn’t want to deal with Raiola.

Milan got a decent fee for a 31 year old and he stayed at PSG for like four years.
 
ThomasEmil said:
Yeah. Go make up a team of Pogbas and Neymars and mix them with homegrown players.
See how well they handle rough patches.
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Ah, that’s what this is. A ‘rough patch’.

I repeat, world class players, like Pogba and Neymar, do not want to spend their prime playing Europa League football and away from the pinnacle of world football. Neymar is getting itchy feet in Paris due to not being at the summit of the game, despite winning league titles and competing for CL football.

This can, however, be avoided by signing Daniel James, Nathan Collins and James Maddison. Or any other football player whose alternative options are Swansea, Leeds, Stoke, Leicester etc, instead of Real Madrid and Juventus.

What about Man City? Should they never buy a Raiola player either, or is this limited to big clubs who spend more time out of the league’s top 4 teams than in it?
 
acnumber9 said:
It kind of does. Even in my job I can’t go about talking negatively about where I work which Pogba has done numerous times. And Pogba earns what I do in a year in a day.
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He's not out right slagging us off and spilling club gossip etc. He's (as respectfully as you can in such a position) suggested his intent to leave. What happens if he answered 'I only see my future with United' then leaves in 2 months. He'd be called a liar. These rumours had already started before Pogba said anything, by looking at our rumoured transfer targets it also looks like we've identified Pogba replacements if he does leave. This suggests he'd already discussed his feelings with the club.

I've done likewise on many occasions to my employer. Respectfully notified them that I do intend on taking up a new challenge within the next 6-12months and updating my LinkedIn status accordingly. They can then begin making plans on succession, training, improving staff retention if its a problem etc. The idea of 'hiding' job searches and job interviews from your current employer is outdated.

And salary has nothing to do with it really.
 
Raiola is great for players because he doesnt care about upsetting people at the club to get his clients the best deal possible. If the player wants to stay, he negotiates a new contract. If they want to go, then theres no changing their mind and he'll whore them out to everyone. The problem isn't him... it's the specific players. Was pretty obvious when we signed Pogba that he would see us as a stop gap and aim to go to Madrid in 3-5 years while he's still in his prime. He was never going to stay and retire here once he came back, that's just naive thinking. The problem is that we've been a fecking mess and are shite, so its accelerating his decision essentially. He's under contract so United have the power here, but in general, he will be leaving either this summer or next.
 
roonster09 said:
Not sure how you came up with that model for PSG when the players they have signed played for club for many years. Areola, Thiago Silva, Kimpembe, Marquinhos, Meunier, Kurzawa, Verratti, Rabiot, Cavani all are playing for PSG from years.

Barca didn't think twice to deal with him to sign De Ligt. Not sure why we are using Liverpool here as there isn't a club who pays more to agent than Liverpool and it's not even close. Last 2-3 years Liverpool topped the table, published by FA. Last year they paid 43 million when the second team paid around 22-23 million. If Raiola's players wants to move and Liverpool are interested in the profile, they will negotiate.

Also how did he not act in player's interest? Pogba's move to Juventus was the best thing to happen for the player. There are players like Hamsik who stayed at Napoli for years and IIRC he was Raiola's client too.
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PSG have players wanting out and their recent purchases to Mbappe and Neymar suggests a lack of patience and a "feck it let's go for it" attitude. They were never going to be long term purchases. But from your list you're right, it's inaccurate they solely go for that approach.

Barca aren't thinking twice about De Ligt but they are about Raiola. Also I don't have a problem with Raiola advising Pogba to leave us in the first instance, albeit he did it in a very disrespectful way. I do have a problem with him constantly being in Pogba's ear this term though. That's not on, agents shouldn't continuously distract their clients.
 
The Nani said:
Definitely agree on the second point which makes it a bit more difficult to agree with the first.
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I think if it was just about money, we would just pay him whatever he wanted. That’s how we operate. If he asked United to pay him £80m for three years to stay we would probably do that. We could do better than Madrid and certainly better than Juventus.
 
VP89 said:
PSG have players wanting out and their recent purchases to Mbappe and Neymar suggests a lack of patience and a "feck it let's go for it" attitude. They were never going to be long term purchases. But from your list you're right, it's inaccurate they solely go for that approach.

Barca aren't thinking twice about De Ligt but they are about Raiola. Also I don't have a problem with Raiola advising Pogba to leave us in the first instance, albeit he did it in a very disrespectful way. I do have a problem with him constantly being in Pogba's ear this term though. That's not on, agents shouldn't continuously distract their clients.
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How is signing by far the best young player and 2 players who are in top 5-10 players in the world lack patience? If anything that shows their ambition for the club.
 
The buck starts and stops with Pogba. Agents can't tell players what to do, well they can but they don't have to listen.
 
roonster09 said:
How is signing by far the best young player and 2 players who are in top 5-10 players in the world lack patience? If anything that shows their ambition for the club.
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They weren't signed for the long term ambition of the club because both players were obviously using PSG as a stop gap to earn good money and get easy cups. Everyone knew that it was a matter of time before both would want out, and low and behold, they want out.

They barely lasted 2 years before either causing issues or publically saying they want to leave.
 
Kapardin said:
More like, we should avoid players who don't seem the type of hang around long. Pogba and De Ligt are the types who will want to move to Real or Barca even if they joined us and won everything there is to win here.

Mkhitaryan is a Raiola client and he wasn't hell bent on moving. Ok, talentwise there is a difference between him and Pogba, but should be possible to sign talented players who don't have a habit of moving irrespective of their agents.
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I agree with this. If we were winning trophies and had a happy dressing room, big names would be happier here.

We are signing big names who are ambitious in our worst period in decades. Why exactly would players stick around if they feel they can achieve more elsewhere? Of course players like Jones, Smalling and Mata are happy to get new contracts because they know their limitations. But if I was Pogba and saw Hererra and De Gea (potentially) leaving but only players like Fred and Dan James signing, I'd be unhappy too.
 
Players go with Raiola with the intention of signing up to his method of moving every few years.

No one should have been surprised that Pogba wants to move. I think the only reason some deluded themselves into thinking he was loyal was because he took up a position against Jose and sides were picked.
 
VP89 said:
They weren't signed for the long term ambition of the club because both players were obviously using PSG as a stop gap to earn good money and get easy cups. Everyone knew that it was a matter of time before both would want out, and low and behold, they want out.

They barely lasted 2 years before either causing issues or publically saying they want to leave.
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Where did they say they want out? All I read is some vague interview by Mbappe and Neymar barely spoke to any media.

They spent 400 million on 2 of them, how is that not long term ambition? And what exactly is long term ambition you are going by as I have given you list of core players who have played for more than 5 years at PSG.
 
If we are winning titles and challenging constantly, players wouldn't want to leave (at least the majority).
Instead of not getting Raiola players, we should focus on returning to a level where players would want to come here, instead of wanting to escape.
 
Sarni said:
I think if it was just about money, we would just pay him whatever he wanted. That’s how we operate. If he asked United to pay him £80m for three years to stay we would probably do that. We could do better than Madrid and certainly better than Juventus.
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You could be right. His performances and antics just end up portraying him as a mercenary who is massively self-absorbed though.
 
Neil_Buchanan said:
He gets the best deals for his players, he is good at his job. It's the personality of the players that we need to look at rather than the agent.
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He also gets a huge wad of cash every time his players get transferred, so it's in his own interests to convince his players to make as many big money moves as possible in their careers.
 
shaky said:
He also gets a huge wad of cash every time his players get transferred, so it's in his own interests to convince his players to make as many big money moves as possible in their careers.
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It has already been pointed out that many of his clients end up staying. You get a good amount of money for extensions as well and Raiola is loaded.

However I don’t get how there are no rules in place to prevent this. Agents should not be getting a premium for their clients moving.
 
roonster09 said:
Where did they say they want out? All I read is some vague interview by Mbappe and Neymar barely spoke to any media.

They spent 400 million on 2 of them, how is that not long term ambition? And what exactly is long term ambition you are going by as I have given you list of core players who have played for more than 5 years at PSG.
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And your list doesn't include the recent departures of Lucas Moura and Matuidi or the players that retired like Motta and Maxwell, they all spent more than 5 years at the club. PSG don't do short term, some players failed and moved quickly but that's mainly due to the players themselves not being happy with the prospect of being on the bench.
 
JPRouve said:
And your list doesn't include the recent departures of Lucas Moura and Matuidi or the players that retired like Motta and Maxwell, they all spent more than 5 years at the club. PSG don't do short term, some players failed and moved quickly but that's mainly due to the players themselves not being happy with the prospect of being on the bench.
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Exactly. There are so many misconceptions about PSG, like they change coaches so easily when they have let every coach to see out the contract bar 1 or 2. Also IIRC they gave extensions to few of them.
 
ThomasEmil said:
With Pogba openly wanting out, and with the transfer saga og De Ligt, not to mention how often Zlatan changed club during his career, I think there's a clear pattern:

Raiola players are acting like spoiled brats, thinking money > loyalty and affiliation.

Call me sentimental, because the days of Totti's and Giggs' are over for far most of the players. Mainly due to agents. It's fine - I don't expect players to be one-club wonders. But this club-jumping, sponsorship announcements on star players and shit has grown me tired.

We're in the race for De Ligt. Honestly - If Raiola is gonna push for him to move on in 3 years, then I say let PSG have him.
I don't want more bigger-than-club players. I think this specific agent is more toxic for the players he represent, than most may realize.
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I disagree. To pass on a player like De Ligt because of his agent is crazy. A lot of people are saying it'll be hard for Raiola to get him out of PSG should he go there and tbh that's how it should be, feck what the agent wants, get a player signed up to a long term contract and then prove you're a big club but holding said player to said contract. As long as the player doesn't start acting up like I said feck what the agent wants. Scouting a players temperament/attitude is another thing though and that's something that definitely should be considered
 
You can't get rid of the likes of Raiola. Even if we sign a player and he turns out to be a worldie - he will end up in bed with a super agent.

Agents do their job, looking after the interests of their client and making them the best deals. They don't care about what goes on when their client is on the pitch. Raiola is one of the best at this (lining is own pocket off the deals too).

Only way to get around agents is to ban them from transfer deals - which wont happen.
 
The state of our club and its supporters is abysmal. We are sh*te and have been for years now, can you blame an agent to want to ship out one of his biggest stars.

Don’t get me wrong Riola is scum but it honestly saddens me what we as a club have become and how these types of threats pop up instead of pointing the finger against the people who are really at fault. Other clubs ship out players that are simply not good enough and we retain Young, Jones and others.

Madrid splash out 300 million in a week and we buy Daniel James eventhough we are in a worse state then them.

Honestly at this point we have become Arsenal and even they are a better side then us. Just stop pointing at Agents, Players etc. for protecting their legacy and wallet and start pointing at people who have turnt this club into Arsenal light because the only one who are responsible for what we have become is them.
 
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