Leeds Riots

So the video of the lad booting the police car on page one.

Quality isn't great but looks under 16.
I'd bill the parents.

Chances are, they're probably laughing along with it, and wouldn't punish the kid.... They'd soon be pissed if they got a nice invoice through the door
 
RedTiger said:
Chapeltown is probably the worst area but I didn't mention it because my sister married a guy from there so I'm a bit bias.
Click to expand...

Fair to say it's been bad for ages?

I ask because I've been up to Newcastle once for a United away and the supporters coaches went through Chapeltown. I remember people on the coach saying it was famously bad and this was back in the 90s. Looking at google maps, it was probably actually the big A road that splits Chapeltown and Harehills.
 
Last edited:
maniak said:
I have no idea about this specific case, but this is simply not true. Parents have their kids taken away all the time for the most unfair/stupid reasons you can think of.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? The criteria for that sort of court order is pretty high, certainly in Scotland and I can't imagine it's enormously different down south. There has to be proven imminent risk to the child and that's not a low bar.
 
maniak said:
I have no idea about this specific case, but this is simply not true. Parents have their kids taken away all the time for the most unfair/stupid reasons you can think of.
Click to expand...

Interesting, could you share some details around this please?
 
Chipper said:
Fair to say it's been bad for ages?

I ask because I've been up to Newcastle once for a United away and the supporters coaches went through Chapeltown. I remember people on the coach saying it was famously bad and this was back in the 90s. Looking at google maps, it was probably actually the big A road that splits Chapeltown and Harehills.
Click to expand...
Honestly, all those places I visited were in the 80s, 90s and early 00s. I haven't really gone north of London in over a decade so can't really comment on how these areas are nowadays, but I'm guessing 10 years of tory rule and no EU funding hasn't helped.
 
maniak said:
I have no idea about this specific case, but this is simply not true. Parents have their kids taken away all the time for the most unfair/stupid reasons you can think of.
Click to expand...
What a statement. Firstly to tell someone they are flat out wrong, secondly to make a sweeping subjective comment and attempt to pass it off as fact.
 
TheReligion said:
What a statement. Firstly to tell someone they are flat out wrong, secondly to make a sweeping subjective comment and attempt to pass it off as fact.
Click to expand...
Fingeredmouse said:
Are you sure? The criteria for that sort of court order is pretty high, certainly in Scotland and I can't imagine it's enormously different down south. There has to be proven imminent risk to the child and that's not a low bar.
Click to expand...
Rado_N said:
Interesting, could you share some details around this please?
Click to expand...

A few years ago there was a portuguese movie about a case like this and multiple newspapers reported on some seriously fecked up cases. The movie is called "Listen" if anyone wants to check.

Some of the cases were:

1) a portuguese mother who didn't speak english was going to get a visit from social services a few days after birth. The husband forgot to tell her, she didn't open the door. The next day they took the baby and it took her months to clarify the misunderstanding and get her baby back.

2) a mother lost her baby because the baby had bruisings that were reported by a nanny. The mother said it was an illness that was causing it. The authorities didn't believe it and took the baby. It took her about 5 years to get the child back because the british authorities refused the medical evaluations of her portuguese daughter. It ended up being a rare bone disease that causes marks that look like bruises, like the mother always claimed. She was without her baby without 5 years and tragically died a few months after getting the kid back.

3) a woman took her baby to the hospital because she fell off a trolley and hurt her head. They suspected the mother, a guy did a sloppy analysis and they took the baby. It took her months to prove it was not an aggression but an accidental injury.

These are the ones I remember, I'm sure there more as at the time this was big news here. I can provide articles in portuguese if anyone wants to check.
 
maniak said:
A few years ago there was a portuguese movie about a case like this and multiple newspapers reported on some seriously fecked up cases. The movie is called "Listen" if anyone wants to check.

Some of the cases were:

1) a portuguese mother who didn't speak english was going to get a visit from social services a few days after birth. The husband forgot to tell her, she didn't open the door. The next day they took the baby and it took her months to clarify the misunderstanding and get her baby back.

2) a mother lost her baby because the baby had bruisings that were reported by a nanny. The mother said it was an illness that was causing it. The authorities didn't believe it and took the baby. It took her about 5 years to get the child back because the british authorities refused the medical evaluations of her portuguese daughter. It ended up being a rare bone disease that causes marks that look like bruises, like the mother always claimed. She was without her baby without 5 years and tragically died a few months after getting the kid back.

3) a woman took her baby to the hospital because she fell off a trolley and hurt her head. They suspected the mother, a guy did a sloppy analysis and they took the baby. It took her months to prove it was not an aggression but an accidental injury.

These are the ones I remember, I'm sure there more as at the time this was big news here. I can provide articles in portuguese if anyone wants to check.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I hate it when Portuguese social workers rock up to my house in Leeds and confiscate my kids. Country's finished.
 
P-Ro said:
Yeah, I hate it when Portuguese social workers rock up to my house in Leeds and confiscate my kids. Country's finished.
Click to expand...
All these examples are of portuguese women living in england.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Social workers... who are they really helping
Click to expand...
To be honest, I've googled a few articles just now just to see if I had written bs and they mention the issue is not social workers who evaluate the cases directly but the increase in incentives to get kids adopted. They mentioned a law passed in the blair years where councils were actually financially rewarded for meeting certain quotas of adopted kids. So the processes of adoption were rushed which made the parent's work of getting their kids back much more complicated.
 
maniak said:
To be honest, I've googled a few articles just now just to see if I had written bs and they mention the issue is not social workers who evaluate the cases directly but the increase in incentives to get kids adopted. They mentioned a law passed in the blair years where councils were actually financially rewarded for meeting certain quotas of adopted kids. So the processes of adoption were rushed which made the parent's work of getting their kids back much more complicated.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure this is any way accurate, certainly for the UK. For a start, once a kid is adopted the original parents cannot get the kids back. It is a legal impossibility unless the adoption breaks down and the kids went back to their parents, which isn't a legal matter and the adoption isn't reversed. Secondly, no UK council is incentivised regarding adoption rates, which makes sense when you think about it.

Kids can't, and do not get removed, for trivial reasons. Really. The parent not speaking English, for instance, is not relevant or conceivably a factor in removal of a child.

That's not to say that there won't be miscarriages of justice on occasion but it'd take a whole team of social workers and management, as well as a judge, to make pretty profound errors. In fact, the bar for removal is so high, and social work so underfunded, the reverse where kids who need to be taken into care or parents who need support don't get the intervention needed.
 
Last edited:
Fingeredmouse said:
I'm not sure this is any way accurate, certainly for the UK. For a start, once a kid is adopted the original parents cannot get the kids back. It is a legal impossibility unless the adoption breaks down and the kids went back to their parents, which isn't a legal matter and the adoption isn't reversed. Secondly, no UK council is incentivised regarding adoption rates, which makes sense when you think about it.

Kids can't, and do not get removed, for trivial reasons. Really. The parent not speaking English, for instance, is not relevant or conceivably a factor in removal of a child.

That's not to say that there won't be miscarriages of justice on occasion but it'd take a whole team of social workers and management, as well as a judge, to make pretty profound errors. In fact, the bar for removal is so high, and social work so underfunded, the reverse where kids who need to be taken into care or parents who need support don't get the intervention needed.
Click to expand...
The cases I mentioned are pretty well documented in portuguese media. Serious media, not our equivalent of the sun. They include interviews to british lawyers who were involved in the cases.

I think we all like to believe the system works well, but these examples show it's not always the case. These parents spent months and in some cases years without their children for the most absurd reasons. It happened to real people, so telling them kids can't be removed for trivial reasons is just that words. They lived it.

I'll try to find more details about that law mentioned.
 
maniak said:
The cases I mentioned are pretty well documented in portuguese media. Serious media, not our equivalent of the sun. They include interviews to british lawyers who were involved in the cases.

I think we all like to believe the system works well, but these examples show it's not always the case. These parents spent months and in some cases years without their children for the most absurd reasons. It happened to real people, so telling them kids can't be removed for trivial reasons is just that words. They lived it.

I'll try to find more details about that law mentioned.
Click to expand...
In contrast to that you have multiple examples of children who should have been removed ending up dead. Elvis posts threads for them almost every time it happens, which is too often.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
In contrast to that you have multiple examples of children who should have been removed ending up dead. Elvis posts threads for them almost every time it happens, which is too often.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, it must be extremely difficult for those evaluating these cases to make a decision that can have such serious consequences. I was just countering the point that if a child is taken it's because there was a legitimate reason. Mistakes happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.