they were literally on a 5 game win streak and didn’t even concede a goal in those 5 games before the covid break. Where is this myth they were struggling coming from? If anything the break stopped their momentum they were winning the league whatever happened that season they were the best team by a country mile.
Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion
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they were literally on a 5 game win streak and didn’t even concede a goal in those 5 games before the covid break. Where is this myth they were struggling coming from? If anything the break stopped their momentum they were winning the league whatever happened that season they were the best team by a country mile.
Yeah that’s the season I was referring to. They had a spell where they dropped a few points, costing them automatic promotion, and at the time it got put down to Bielsa burnout which I personally wouldn’t agree with. They were outplaying the sides and playing with their usual intensity, just woeful finishing and the pressure getting them to a bit. Other than a bad loss to Wigan they still played good stuff and we’re good value in their games. Of course people could and will view it differently to how I do, but for me it wasn’t burnout, and in their last season had Covid not materialised, I think they would have still gone up without a hitch.
She’s perfectly entitled to her opinion though and there’s plenty of people that share it. And I don’t buy the male pundits would get the same abuse that some here are arguing, this is still very much a male dominated sport and any dissenting opinion, voiced by a woman, is often attacked in a far more aggressive manner than one voiced by a male pundit. It’s small time from Leeds, they’ve had everyone wanking them off for years (me included).
It's been a long standing criticism of Biesla's sides I think. He starts off like a house on fire, gets a load of credit and then the teams fade away which is why he's never really won anything.
Not sure about the accuracy but that's my understanding.
That’s fair enough mate, thanks for explaining. I agree with the latter half of your post too.
I also think in terms of an official club account criticising someone, it shouldn’t matter if they’re calling out a male or female pundit, in either scenario it sets up them for abuse (obviously much worse abuse when it’s a woman).
Swansea had the upcoming talent of Rodgers managing them in 2011, then they had Laudrup who continued from where Rodgers left. Southampton gambled on Pochettino (despite getting a lot of stick from the media) and it paid off massively for them, they've generally tried to follow the same blueprint of going for European managers (with Hughes being the blip), who've prefered to play on the ground more than going route one. Wolves have done the same with the backing of talented players from Mendes. Wigan's gamble with Martinez also paid off somewhat. I can't don't know much about Reading and West Ham.
Maybe you can say that if the lower league teams can gamble with overseas managers they might be more likely to play attractive football and stay up. Since you can count on a single hand the British managers who play attractive football and still maintain a good defense. But managements tend to go for the British Boys Clubs at the first signs of trouble, so it might take a while for bottom teams to trust other playing styles. Pardew, Pulis, McCarthey haven't got PL jobs recently, so maybe there is a turning of the tide. You also have young british managers like Potter playing attractive football.
If I remember rightly, the team was prone to mental rather than physical collapses that season. Wheels really came off after losing to 10 man Wigan at home despite having about 40 shots and completely dominating. When the pressure was on you could always count on our attackers to miss sitters and our defenders to lose their heads. See: Derby playoff game at Elland road. It was even visible last season against Barnsley. On the cusp of promotion the bottom of the league played us off the park on our own patch - we were so frightened of losing we camped in our own half and couldn't string two passes together. By the time we played the next game we were already promoted, pressure was off and we battered Derby and Charlton in style.
The one period where Leeds have consistently looked physically vulnerable under Bielsa is over Christmas and into the new year. That's the period I believe Bielsa's style and his preference for a small squad really does tend to push players beyond their physical limits.
I know that Liverpool's twitter account is managed by some American company. I can see Roma, Dortmund's twitter accounts pull the same thing which Leeds did. Just a hunch, that these twitter accounts are managed in America, where things like this are somewhat more accepted.
It sounds like people are fine with the Leeds tweet, but their tweet inviting the Twitter trolls is what people are concerned about. I don't think preventing Leeds stating the point of view/calling out shite is the right way to reduce misogynistic comments on Twitter.
they did fade out in previous seasons, the team was getting used to his high press tactics not at the required fitness or even having the right mentality but last season they were 100% on to gain automatic promotion and finish top quite comfortably, so for carney to come out and say covid helped them is complete rubbish. I’m guessing she didn’t watch the championship last season, she shouldn’t be making those statements or she should at least do research. She probably didn’t even know they’d won 5 without conceding pre covid break.
I can see why the club would be pee’d off at statements like that especially when they dominated the league. It undervalues their efforts. Maybe not the media team but if you was a player or coaching staff or a fan it’d annoy you.
They destroyed us. I hadn't known about them before the game.
I couldn't believe what I was watching.
Totally agree, this Leeds team are very unique in their psychology though.
Was speaking more generally about points versus hammerings not being just as simple as stated.
I'm sure she could stand the heat if it came in the form of fair rebuttals and discussion. But why would she have to be able to handle misogyny? If it wasn't for that, all we'd be talking about here is Leeds's insecurity (although @Cascarino made a good point about criticism of female pundits - EDIT: based on the discussion below, maybe it's not as good a point; I don't really follow punditry myself).
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Piss take that Leeds managed to get a fecking incredible right winger in Raphinha for only what 20 million?
For every good signing like that, there's 20 duds; look at some of the shite we've bought over the past 8 years!
Condemning the abuse is all well and good but the only way you're not going to know that tweet will prompt that abuse is if you've never been on twitter before or you're really stupid. You'd think their social media team would prefer people to be talking about their 5-0 win.
I always got the impression that we didn't particularly care based on team selection. The thing I took most from it was why should I if United don't and I sort of wrote it off as rather meaningless.
I don't know if my mind was playing tricks on me but I'm just looking at the team sheet. No Scholes, Ferdinand, Carrick, Nani or Welbeck who seemed to playing a lot of the league games around then but left out for that. Lots of players getting rested in the previous round against Ajax too. I can't see the video as it's blocked in my country, was Jones in CM or did we go with an experimental 5 at the back? He, Evans and Smalling all starting.
1) I haven't said that so shut up
2) The problem about this "Leeds United vs Karen Carney topic" are only people like you because they are thinking that it was sexist.
3) I follow more female journalists than male journalists on Twitter (Not just for football) because they don't talk so much crap......but like said Karen Carney deserves criticism for this sentence and the people of the Leeds United Twitter account have done nothing wrong.
Here a view from a woman in the football business (She is a football agent).
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I didn't understand. A pundit made a snide comment on Leeds. And Leeds gave it back, banter talk mostly.
Internet is vile. So idiots abuse her.
So now Leeds should apologize? Huh?
Internet is vile. So idiots abuse her.
So now Leeds should apologize? Huh?
I agree the Leeds tweet wasn't sexist and was in fact totally in line with the sort of childish stuff the account often gets up to - mild trolling. The problem is in the response it generates beyond the initial tweet. Originally I thought the tweet was fine, a fair criticism of a crap take, but on reflection I think that if your action is likely to generate a bunch of irrelevant sexist abuse towards a person then it seems wise to consider that outcome before deciding to act.
I'm certain the club didn't intend Carney to receive a boatload of misogyny, but they did facilitate that outcome. That was naive of them.
Even funnier is they got Meslier for €6.50m.
1) I haven't said that so shut up
2) The problem about this "Leeds United vs Karen Carney topic" are only people like you because they are thinking that it was sexist.
3) I follow more female journalists than male journalists on Twitter (Not just for football) because they don't talk so much crap......but like said Karen Carney deserves criticism for this sentence and the people of the Leeds United Twitter account have done nothing wrong.
Here a view from a woman in the football business (She is a football agent).
Well said.
When Souness spouts shite, Redcafe and Twitter (me included) laugh it up and call him every name under the sun.
A female pundit does the same and people have to be quiet? Come on.
But why have club twitter accounts turned into effectively banter accounts for twats? They know full well that female pundits have to work harder to get the opportunities and then suffer a lot more abuse because the world and the internet is full of misogynistic troglodytes so why encourage that which is exactly what they have done and blatantly the intention.
She had the kernel of a reasonable point (Bielsa teams have had a habit of blowing up in the past) which she didn't articulate particularly well, criticism is fair enough but for an official club account with over 650 thousand followers to stoke a pile on is shit and for them now to pretend they didn't intend for this to be the consequence is completely disingenuous. If they called out every dodgy point made by a pundit they'd never stop tweeting.
I think we all agree that "the Twitter mob" is a disgrace.
But if Karen Carney or any other pundit cries at home about "the Twitter mob" then they should look for a different job......the internet world gets more toxic every day and that is the fault of us all.
Yep exactly everyone has criticized the "Soccer Saturday crew" for their stupid and ridiculous comments since a long time.
Karen Carney is actually a fine pundit (No male pundit is on the level of Alex Scott in England) but she was out of order with this sentence.
That she is silent about this topic is a bad idea in my opinion because that helps no one.
Are they criticised based on their gender? Do they receive thousands of tweets telling them they’ve only got the job because they’re a woman, that despite being one of the most capped footballers in England their opinion is worthless because they’re not a male?
Not this season Wolves, they are considerably worse on that matter, this season they already were trashed at West Ham, Leicester, Anfield etc. Even if you don’t appreciate the style still think Spurs are the best one on that department this season.
I respect Bielsa but I would never hire him for my team to win titles, just don’t like the nauseating tone used by certain sectors of fans and media who follow him who dismiss other type of coaches who they think are inferior because they have more defensive organisation setup.
For me the best one in the Premier League related to the ratio quality of play vs resources this season is Rodgers, but I would like to see Gerrard working in the Premier League.
Also would be interesting to see if Wolves changed their approach one day Carvalhal having the chance to work there, think he has the ability to improve individual players, at least he has done this last season with Rio Ave and Braga this one, but don’t know if they will ever give him that chance tbh.
Ridiculous. To say Leeds had the intention to get a female pundit purposefully abused is just absurd. It is just hindsight.
To pretend that they didn't know this would happen is what is absurd. There's a reason why Alex Scott was trending this morning (in the same way she does anytime she is on TV) despite having no relevance to this story.
They're not apologizing though, are they? The statement quoted above serves to distance themselves from the idiots. I think that's fair enough, since their tweet got the idiots going and now people are connecting Leeds to those idiots.
That’s my point! We’ve been looking for a right winger and ended up with someone like James. So far Raphinha looks immense.
They are not. But many people on the internet and caf expect Leeds to own up and apologize for bantering with a female pundit, which led to someone else abusing her.
The fact that they left the tweet up there despite the shitstorm is pretty telling imo.
Because they feel it was a harmless tweet and they are not at fault if idiots on internet are idiots.
Maybe they should have deleted the tweet just for getting some peace of mind and for good PR, but it is understandable if they think they aren't at fault in this case and they had every right to banter with a pundit, regardless of the gender.
It seems strange that female pundits should be allowed to talk whatever nonsense they want and not get called out for it, only because they are female.
Then they shouldn't apologise. But they should take the tweet down, because it's continuing to prompt misogynist abuse. Which should probably take precedence over their right to weak banter.
They should also teach their social media team how twitter works, because that tweet attracting both misogynist abuse towards Carney and subsequent negative attention for Leeds was something anyone with half a brain could have predicted if they've been on twitter for more than 10 minutes.
They already made their PR move by condeming the abuse a day later. Their original response was the owner defending the tweet. Look, based on the original tweet alone, it wasn't mysogynistic, and probably just very myopic and ill advised, but to keep the tweet up there tells me that either they are not bothered by the response, or that the banter and internet points was more important than an actual person getting unfairly abused and piled on for doing her job.
Yeah, it was a poorly expressed point and Leeds Twitter’s post was not unreasonable. Their banter with Agbonlahor earlier in the season was very similar.
They won’t do anything similar again now, given the negative publicity, but giving female pundits protected status from fair comment/criticism is not the answer to deal with troglodytes who send them abuse. No apology needed.
They won’t do anything similar again now, given the negative publicity, but giving female pundits protected status from fair comment/criticism is not the answer to deal with troglodytes who send them abuse. No apology needed.
Leeds wanted James at one point, didn't they? Would they trade for Raphinha?
Crazy society where no one can say anything because cretins on social media will start acting like plonkers.
Surely people should look at Twitter to find a way to manage these people rather than tell a football club to keep quiet if the pundit is a woman?
Surely people should look at Twitter to find a way to manage these people rather than tell a football club to keep quiet if the pundit is a woman?
If Big Sam goes down this old boys club might get broken up.
Because that’s the culture of “football twitter”. Twitter is essentially shite for attention seeking knobs trying to outdo each other with the hottest take so it’s best to just avoid it all together.
Anyone else really like the look of Raphinha? I think he’s exactly what we could do with on the right wing. Can go either way, great engine on him, decent dribbler, good crosser and take a good set piece. Looks an absolute snip at 17 million.
Hopefully Leeds get relegated and we sign him.
Hopefully Leeds get relegated and we sign him.