umm what? cantona and cr7 are two of the most noted players to be known to have massive egos. Warranted, but they had massive egos. Both of them were under SAF. If you are a massive talent like neymar, im sure you would be playing in a Pep or SAF team for sure. Not to sure about kloop because his forwards do track back quite a bit. As for Bielsa, he is an amazing coach and the only reason his way of playing wouldn't work in a big big team is because of what you basically said. I certainly cant imagine Pogba putting a shift in, like those Leeds players do every single game. He is a coach for lesser teams where he is the one with the biggest ego and can have everyone diggin in for one goal, which is winning games and not who scores the goals, who looks good, etc etc etc. On top of thats its pretty well documented how much those Leeds players actually train and prepare for games. Its too much IMO, but again its something big players wouldn't do. After two weeks they would be underperforming and trying to get the manager sacked.
Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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I think Leeds have had the majority of possession in every game they've played this season, including against City and away at Liverpool.
Bielsa does not compromise on his principles.
Bielsa does not compromise on his principles.
It's a consequence of underrating the opponents, the sooner a team imposes themselves upon Leeds, the sooner we see their weaknesses.
Given what he’s got to work with, Bielsa is probably the best manager in the Prem
I've not really followed Biesla before.
Is there a reason his football hasnt gotten old whilst people say managers like LVG & Jose have?
He doesnt seem to have been at a top top big club either whilst he seems to be doing well & have been here forever?
What's peoples thoughts on him & his history?
Is there a reason his football hasnt gotten old whilst people say managers like LVG & Jose have?
He doesnt seem to have been at a top top big club either whilst he seems to be doing well & have been here forever?
What's peoples thoughts on him & his history?
He is the most pure attacking football coach in the world, and had never compromised on his belief. He is attacking to the point of being almost suicidal, hence the reason why big clubs shy away from him. For a lower-end/mid-tier club, he is perfect for them because they have nothing to lose.
Bielsa's team has a habit of tailing off towards the end and ending up in mid-table. Which is perfectly fine for a mid-table club, but not something that a big club can tolerate.
A lot of "modern football" has roots in Bielsa's philosophy.
He is very ahead of his time with a high press and inverted wing backs. Ironically his preferred formation is based on Van Gaal's 95 Ajax team.
He has been around since long before I was born, excited to see if he can actually fulfil his philosophy.
He'd turn Dan James into Gareth Bale this guy.
He isn't. This will become clear in a few months when his team are knackered and leaking goals.
For 4 months of the season, he would then turn the rest of our players into zombies.
Well until he didn't. He is a genius but his methods are not sustainable. He needs someone like Guardiola to take his brilliance and adapt to something that works practically.
Very lucky that they had a fluke break last season.
Don’t be sure about that, for a start they don’t have European football
I am pretty sure, they didn't have European football the first season they fell apart.
I feel like I sound as though I am being quite harsh on him. He is an absolute genius of the highest degree and deserves every plaudit he receives. Just not a top football manager in practical terms.
The thing I like in his tactics is Kalvin Phillips playing as a third CB at times and moving in and out from midfield to defensive positions.
Was this part of LVG's tactics you were talking about or what exactly because I dont watch Leeds much.
LVG is someone I got a soft spot for so I'd like to see how its similar.
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Time will tell
Argentina played beautiful football under him in 2000-02, Crespo, Kily Gonzales, Claudio Lopez was fantastic interchangable attack with Veron pulling thr strings behind them. Shame they crashed and burned at 2002 world cup with him making some odd selection calls (Batistuta starting ahead of Crespo).
Recovered to win Olympics in 2004 and they should've won Copa America same year v Brazil. Argentina still haven't won a title in the 16 years since he left btw.
Then moved onto Chile who he got into 2010 world cup in style and integrated their golden generation of Alexis, Vidal, Medel so started the building blocks of their success from that point to winning Copa twice between 2015-16.
Bilbao. Everyone on here remembers the europa game v Man. United when they pressed out of their minds home and away. This against a SAF team aswell that was coming off its most successs consistant CL run of a couple of finals. Got to Europa and Copa Del Rey in same final and were unlucky to face peak Guardiola/Messi Barca in one and Atletico Madrid in first stages of Simeone management in the other. And they were dead on their feet which continued the next season. @DomesticTadpole would give more detalied analysis of his tenure there I'm sure.
Next up Marseille which is biggest club side he's managed in europe. Got them in contention for title for most of the season before they fell away in final weeks. Finished 4th and europa which was o.k but really could've been 2nd.
Lazio. Lasted about 2 days before resigning because they wouldn't sign Enner Valencia.
Would've been interesting him in Serie A given the job Inzaghi has done with the Lazio squad over last 3-4 years.Then Leeds which has already been covered in depth.
He's a better fit for the fallen giant club rather than one that constantly demands to win trophies but vast majority of players love working under him given the level of coaching so think his ideas would translate well to a top club which has decent patience.
I do actually wonder if Man. City might seriously consider him if this would be Guardiola's last season. I'm sure he'd recommend Bielsa as his replacement if asked but Man. City would probably prefer longer term option like Pochettino.
Well his preferred formation has always been a 3-4-3. He has stated that his pressing in midfield means that his defence should only need 3 men resulting in them having an extra man against classic 2 striker formations. The Ajax team had a more static back three with Blind, De Boer and Reiziger.
I would imagine Phillips role is based on his natural stamina which is brilliant, being decent on the ball and the fact that a lot of teams play 4-2-3-1 in the premier league which is a nightmare for a team playing 3-4-3. Great adjustment as long as Phillips can keep it up.
Not a top manager in practical terms? What?
Argentina played beautiful football under him in 2000-02, Crespo, Kily Gonzales, Claudio Lopez was fantastic interchangable attack with Veron pulling thr strings behind them. Shame they crashed and burned at 2002 world cup with him making some odd selection calls (Batistuta starting ahead of Crespo).
Recovered to win Olympics in 2004 and they should've won Copa America same year v Brazil. Argentina still haven't won a title in the 16 years since he left btw.
Then moved onto Chile who he got into 2010 world cup in style and integrated their golden generation of Alexis, Vidal, Medel so started the building blocks of their success from that point to winning Copa twice between 2015-16.
Bilbao. Everyone on here remembers the europa game v Man. United when they pressed out of their minds home and away. This against a SAF team aswell that was coming off its most successs consistant CL run of a couple of finals. Got to Europa and Copa Del Rey in same final and were unlucky to face peak Guardiola/Messi Barca in one and Atletico Madrid in first stages of Simeone management in the other. And they were dead on their feet which continued the next season. @DomesticTadpole would give more detalied analysis of his tenure there I'm sure.
Next up Marseille which is biggest club side he's managed in europe. Got them in contention for title for most of the season before they fell away in final weeks. Finished 4th and europa which was o.k but really could've been 2nd.
Lazio. Lasted about 2 days before resigning because they wouldn't sign Enner Valencia.
Then Leeds which has already been covered in depth.
He's a better fit for the fallen giant club rather than one that constantly demands to win trophies but vast majority of players love working under him given the level of coaching so think his ideas would translate well to a top club which has decent patience.
I do actually wonder if Man. City might seriously consider him if this would be Guardiola's last season. I'm sure he'd recommend Bielsa as his replacement if asked but Man. City would probably prefer longer term option like Pochettino.
Thanks mate.
Seems like he reached a valuable standard from mid table clubs but couldn't deliver the much needed when required. Maybe that's down to the players at his disposal at clubs like Marseille or Atheltico Bilbao either.
Maybe depending after leeds he gets a chance at a top club with money aswell.
He got Bilbao to two cup finals in same season. For context they haven't won anything since 1984.
In terms of how likely his teams are to actually achieve long term success under him (excluding national teams which is where I think he is best placed).
How many managers last more than 3/4 years at any club these days?
Don't really see it as he prefers underachieving clubs with projects. Everton, Newcastle or Spurs (before Poch) could've all been good choices for him in last few years so credit to Leeds for getting in there first while they were mid table championship club.
Completely forgot he was at Lille in 2017 season and that didn't work out at all given they were in relegation zone when he left. Can't remember the quality of their squad that season as they're always selling players.
That said I never thought Chelsea would appoint a Sarri type coach. Guy close to 60, never won a major trophy but pushed Napoli close to title playing romantic style of football so guess there's still a chance especially if he decides his work is done at Leeds at end of season.
So go for a manager who burns his squad out because clubs don't plan long term?
Doesn't set a team up for long-term success and burns his squad out? You being serious? He is culturally changing football over there. If they continue that, it definitely will yield long-term effects, which I'd argue is success. What other type of success are they presently capable of? It's not like any other manager could be put in there and they'd be more likely to win trophies. He's quite frankly getting a squad playing much better than the sum of its parts, which in managerial terms is genius.
He is a genius yes.
I'd sell Martial to uh Milan and give the 50M fee to Bielsa to betray Leeds and come in January
From the looks of things. He would be the sort of manager that could make Dortmund win the CL. Imagine him having their current pool of talent at his disposal, it would be fireworks.
Definitely a coaching genius. I've been a fan for a long time. Interesting, the comment about his methods needing someone like Pep to make them practical towards winning stuff. Pep has had super elite squads in all his jobs so far, and has pretty much burnt out after 3 seasons (jury out at Citeh now he's into a 4th). Bielsa has never had anything resembling such a squad. I think his biggest problem is his personality. He's not called El Loco for nothing. If his personality was a bit more flexible, so he can navigate big player egos and boardroom politics, I think he would have got the big jobs and won a lot like lesser coaches have done. But every big club knows he comes with a tonne of baggage. Few consider it worth the risk.
As great a manager as he is, he himself can be nigh on unmanageable.
Why is he a genius when he isn't deemed good enough for a top team or a top manager in practical terms?
@FootballHQ good posts. Feel like these should be stickied in this thread to answer questions which a lot of people have about him.
In addition, the guy always leaves his imprints on a players skill long after he leaves. His ability to build a team which is much stronger than the sum of its parts is unmatched. He turned Martinez, Muniain, Llorente into world beaters at Bilbao, and repeated it for Payet, Mendy, Gignac at Marseille. He also improved a bunch of other players who were sold handsomely by their clubs later on. Saying this burn out has also been a recurring pattern, and so far I've put it down to him working at clubs with limited finances.
Apart from being uncompromising in his dealings with the boards, the reason why he doesn't manage rich clubs is probably the desire for an adventure. Look at the clubs he has picked up since Chile and you can see he likes to pick cult clubs which had latent potential waiting to be tapped into.
I also don't buy that the top clubs players won't give their all for Bielsa's gameplan. While Pep isn't as radical as Bielsa, we've seen the top players at his disposal bust their guts in a similar manner. If anything, seeing a squad of middling Championship players play PL clubs off the park, would motivate the top players all the more and show them that they might not be playing close to their highest potentials.
In addition, the guy always leaves his imprints on a players skill long after he leaves. His ability to build a team which is much stronger than the sum of its parts is unmatched. He turned Martinez, Muniain, Llorente into world beaters at Bilbao, and repeated it for Payet, Mendy, Gignac at Marseille. He also improved a bunch of other players who were sold handsomely by their clubs later on. Saying this burn out has also been a recurring pattern, and so far I've put it down to him working at clubs with limited finances.
Apart from being uncompromising in his dealings with the boards, the reason why he doesn't manage rich clubs is probably the desire for an adventure. Look at the clubs he has picked up since Chile and you can see he likes to pick cult clubs which had latent potential waiting to be tapped into.
I also don't buy that the top clubs players won't give their all for Bielsa's gameplan. While Pep isn't as radical as Bielsa, we've seen the top players at his disposal bust their guts in a similar manner. If anything, seeing a squad of middling Championship players play PL clubs off the park, would motivate the top players all the more and show them that they might not be playing close to their highest potentials.
His methods are harsh and most players have too much ego to follow through it.
It's why he's better at smaller clubs where players can buy into his ideal instead of being in a big club where some players might think themselves above putting in max effort all game.
He's basically doing what Ole wants to do with us.
Credit where its due, Leeds have looked amazing this year (the cnuts) and no doubt Bielsa has done a great job with them. Have to keep in mind though that Sheffield U also looked unplayable at times last season, then ran out of steam and now they look like relegation fodder.
Leeds played some nice football yesterday, but Villa had a couple of massive chances at 0-0 and they were dire in defense at 1-0 and 3-0. That second goal is just a 1/100 worldie
Leeds played some nice football yesterday, but Villa had a couple of massive chances at 0-0 and they were dire in defense at 1-0 and 3-0. That second goal is just a 1/100 worldie
I think you are being ridiculous. He has utterly transformed that club for the better which will last long after he goes.
Let's say Bielsa took over Ferguson's team in 2007 or 1998 would he have fallen out with some players and been problematic any more than Fergie used to
Naah, I'm sure leeds fan must be hating this and would rather a 'long' term project whatever that means.
Is that the fans he can’t talk to in English by any chance?
Those cnuts will have it coming to them, I’m sure Ole will tell the boys a bit about our rivalry.