Lack of striking talent in U-23s

datura said:
I think we've had this discussion before and I don't agree at all. And just because a team is any winning, doesn't mean a player doesn't had a winning mindset. Just see Rashford as an example.

The real talent will come through regardless of the quality around them.
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There is truth in that…but a 'team' mindset helps every player develop. Thus the standouts progress but so do the late developers. That includes the Scholes, Beckhams and others.

Psychologically a winning team does create a winning mindset. Ask Eric Harrison.

Nicky Butt talks about this a lot.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
There is truth in that…but a 'team' mindset helps every player develop. Thus the standouts progress but so do the late developers. That includes the Scholes, Beckhams and others.

Psychologically a winning team does create a winning mindset. Ask Eric Harrison.

Nicky Butt talks about this a lot.
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There's a different between focusing on a winning mindset and judging the team's individual talents based on their results though.The U18s team last season is an example.They lost 1-5 to Chelsea in the FA Youth Cup but we already have 2 first team players out of that team with more to come.We need them to have a winning mindset but doesn't mean they're shit if they're losing matches.

There're suddenly a lot of talks about youth results these days compared to the past.I remember the U18s team of Wilson,Deahli,... lost 0-3 to Stoke or someone few years ago and nobody give a damn.
 
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khoazany said:
There's a different between focusing on a winning mindset and judging the team's individual talents based on their results though.The U18s team last season is an example.They lost 1-5 to Chelsea in the FA Youth Cup but we already have 2 first team players out of that team with more to come.We need them to have a winning mindset but doesn't mean they're shit if they're losing matches.

There're suddenly a lot of talks about youth results these days compared to the past.I remember the U18s team of Wilson,Deahli,... lost 0-3 to Stoke or someone few years ago and nobody give a damn.
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I think judging outlining results is the same in any situation..it's an outlier. In that case I agree with you.

When you have just had the worst results in 80 years then I think it's reasonable to ask questions.

The loss to Chelsea showed our lack of quality in depth which has to be addressed…I think those players, many of whom have signed professional contracts need to understand that winning matters.

I don't necessarily blame the players… I actually think its an issue with talent and coaching at younger levels.

U/18's are the link between youth football and development and the professional game…it's about development and results.

I also agree that one or two individuals who are standouts may not be judged on the team results…but the team will be. Thus like the first team you may need 1/2 standouts and a core of very good players.

All our winning youth teams have had this mix.
 
I agree with many of you. Individuals will not develop in a losing team. Not havinv a proper striker will mean we will not win as many games. Losing means that players' levels will naturally drop, thus their development will slow. IMHO.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
There is truth in that…but a 'team' mindset helps every player develop. Thus the standouts progress but so do the late developers. That includes the Scholes, Beckhams and others.

Psychologically a winning team does create a winning mindset. Ask Eric Harrison.

Nicky Butt talks about this a lot.
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Its maybe a balance. For example Tuanzebe is probably learning far more in a poorer team as he's tested a lot more, and as a standout talent he's having to take a leadership role despite being one of the youngest players.

When you look at City's 'all conquering' youth sides that are yet to yield any first teamers (and Chelsea) - are they learning anything by smashing teams 7-0? It's almost too easy.

It's an interesting discussion.
 
datura said:
Its maybe a balance. For example Tuanzebe is probably learning far more in a poorer team as he's tested a lot more, and as a standout talent he's having to take a leadership role despite being one of the youngest players.

When you look at City's 'all conquering' youth sides that are yet to yield any first teamers (and Chelsea) - are they learning anything by smashing teams 7-0? It's almost too easy.

It's an interesting discussion.
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Agree with this, if teams are hammering teams every week and not being tested they often get used to playing in their comfort zone or their role in the team and can often find it a complete shock as they move up the age levels. There have been numerous teams over the years who have been very successful at youth level by having a good general standard but without any genuinely special players who could transition into top senior players and numerous teams who have had poor results because of gaps in the team or a lower general level but have produced 3/4 senior players. Adversity and having to carry teams to a degree has been the making of plenty of players. As far as I'm concerned results should come as a by-product of developing young players and getting them playing the right way rather than being the first thing people look to when deciding if a clubs youth development is working or not which seems to be the case for many.
 
Weir to Hull as attacking options gets even smaller....really interesting how this develops, could see top prospects from U18 moving up even though they are only 16/17 years old.
 
Just realized there is no emergency loan window now. Few others also need loans probably.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
:lol:
Dont know, with Weir gone and looking at our squad he could easily play most of the time on the wing....
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I think a player like him can play well on the wings too but i see him as a playmaker.

And like said if we would only have a striker in the team then i would look forward to see that attack in the next months.

..................Striker
Mitchell........Gribbin........Harrop*/Dearnley

*Actually he would need a loan too.
 
Denying players firt team football just because you don't want to lose U23 matches is BS in my opinion.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
I think a player like him can play well on the wings too but i see him as a playmaker.

And like said if we would only have a striker in the team then i would look forward to see that attack in the next months.

..................Striker
Mitchell........Gribbin........Harrop*/Dearnley

*Actually he would need a loan too.
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Probably Mitchell will play striker and someone like Kehinde on the wing is what will happen.
 
I thought we were going to sign the young striker that Everton signed for our U23s team, but unfortunately that didn't happen.

We desperately need a striker for this team and signing one would mean we wouldn't always be playing players out of position.

I mean maybe we can promote Buffonge even though I don't think he's at that level yet. I would rather that happen than players always playing out of position.
 
Gerald G said:
I thought we were going to sign the young striker that Everton signed for our U23s team, but unfortunately that didn't happen.

We desperately need a striker for this team and signing one would mean we wouldn't always be playing players out of position.

I mean maybe we can promote Buffonge even though I don't think he's at that level yet. I would rather that happen than players always playing out of position.
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By playing Buffonge there, you would be doing what you'd rather not do. He's not a striker, he can play there at a stretch, maybe as a false 9 or second striker, but he's probably best coming off the wings or playing as a central attacking midfielder.
 
Gribbin's not a striker but damn he reminds of me of Van Persie when he's on the ball. Probably because of the way he moves his arms around. :D
 
Leonard17 said:
By playing Buffonge there, you would be doing what you'd rather not do. He's not a striker, he can play there at a stretch, maybe as a false 9 or second striker, but he's probably best coming off the wings or playing as a central attacking midfielder.
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We dont have a striker so anybody who plays there would be out of position.
False nine could be a good option to try but i cant see Joyce playing like that:lol: Most logical option is to replicate first team and play with a big man up top....

---Kehinde---Redmond---
Mitchell--Gribbin---Harrop
--------McTominay------
 
Šjor Bepo said:
We dont have a striker so anybody who plays there would be out of position.
False nine could be a good option to try but i cant see Joyce playing like that:lol: Most logical option is to replicate first team and play with a big man up top....

---Kehinde---Redmond---
Mitchell--Gribbin---Harrop
--------McTominay------
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Dearnley is probably the most likely to play up top, he actually has experience of playing there. Only thing is, his injuries. Don't know how long it'll be before we see him again.
 
Leonard17 said:
By playing Buffonge there, you would be doing what you'd rather not do. He's not a striker, he can play there at a stretch, maybe as a false 9 or second striker, but he's probably best coming off the wings or playing as a central attacking midfielder.
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Yeah I get that but we haven't got much of an option. It's ridiculous. Dearnley would probably play up op but his injuries are a big problem.
 
Gerald G said:
Yeah I get that but we haven't got much of an option. It's ridiculous. Dearnley would probably play up op but his injuries are a big problem.
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Just have to wait and see what Joyce comes up with.
 
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