La Liga/Serie A/BuLi Draft - 1st Rd MJJ/VivaJanuzaj vs Downcast/KirkDuyt

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Great effort by both managers.

Great OP by Downkuyt. Appreciate the effort. You guys will be a welcome addition to the draft junkies world here.

Still... Not that I'm not a fan of storytelling but player profiles are better left in the main thread. More so when they are relatively modern players. People already have a good knowledge on them which the write up and videos won't influence that much imo.

To start with what formation are both teams playing, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1?

For one, I don't buy Yaya in that role. Don't think he has the discipline or characteristics to play a pivot. Same with Khedira. He should be back helping out against Neymar instead of playing tag with Stankovic.

In CBs Viva has a clear advantage. I rate Samuel. The only great Brazilian CBs are Domigos, Pereira...and Silva in future.

Neymar role looks quite dangerous here. I don't rate Carvajal highly and it's a obviously easy way to goal for team DK. Without support from Khedira this ends one way. Even with support this is a point against Viva.

Rest of the team I give advantage to Viva. Midfield looks equal but I rate his attack. Muller and Eto'o are quite dynamic and more versatile than Neymar and Falcao who may be a bit more straightforward lethal. I expect him to create more chances here though DK will finish what they get better.

I give the edge to Viva for now. But he needs a more comprehensive plan for Neymar. Is Abidal playing tucked in here? Will Khedira be there for support?

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I will come back tomorrow morning.

So, the voters are free to express their thoughts/questions.

Have a good night ! Even @VivaJanuzaj



50/50. Not a huge difference between our midfields.



Up to the voters to answer this question!

Good night. Off to bed too, last comment:

50/50 in possession? I really doubt it, we have two extremely good passers in Guardiola & Sneijder and Khedira who is used to playing possession game for Germany. You have 3 midfielders out of their best position.

And the second question, you chose to avoid answering. I didn't ask the voters what did they think, I asked you.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I give the edge to Viva for now. But he needs a more comprehensive plan for Neymar. Is Abidal playing tucked in here? Will Khedira be there for support?

Abidal is definitely playing tucked in and we mentioned it in the OP. Abidal is LCB so Thiago Silva can help out when Carvajal gets beaten, which is undeniably going to happen more than once.
As for Khedira, we wanted to put an arrow on him going up and down-right but we decided not to overload arrows and hopefully it will be self explanatory, but I'll gladly answer. Khedira is definitely going to help with Neymar there and this is why he's on RCM, and he won't be playing chase with Stankovic for two reasons, first they will have much less possession and will try to break quickly although Downcast doesn't admit it - they have quick attackers and no players fit to play possession game besides Neymar maybe and Ozil. Secondly Stankovic's role will be much more defensively in this box2box role he's asked to play because of that ball control and because he'll need to make up for Yaya's lack of pace or Sneijder will dominate that area. With Stankovic in a more drawn back position, and Yaya the DM covering back, you have to remember Sneijder is no ordinary #10 who doesn't do defensive work and he played for Mourinho's Inter who was very hardworking. Sneijder will work back in the midfield battle and will track back Stankovic when they have the ball.

The real question is, who is helping Heinrich against Thomas Muller? I don't know why Neymar is being regarded as a much bigger attacking threat than he is, and who is helping this guy is facing a LM playing at LB, and this is based on facts from transfermarkt, if Yaya is occupied with Sneijder, Stankovic with Khedira & Sneijder when he runs away from Yaya Toure and the CBs are way too busy with Eto'o? Is it Materazzi helping leaving Eto'o 1on1 with Julio Cesar? As a LM Heinrich will definitely get caught out of position so this really needs addressing.

Good night.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

As for Khedira, we wanted to put an arrow on him going up and down-right but we decided not to overload arrows and hopefully it will be self explanatory, but I'll gladly answer. Khedira is definitely going to help with Neymar there and this is why he's on RCM, and he won't be playing chase with Stankovic for two reasons, first they will have much less possession and will try to break quickly although Downcast doesn't admit it - they have quick attackers and no players fit to play possession game besides Neymar maybe and Ozil.

I think Khedira should be a DM here. Your biggest threat is Neymar and I don't see a better job for Sami than that.

Secondly you are underestimating DKs team here. All they need is a quick goal or two to take the lead here and with Stankovic dropping back they can defend that to an extent. Vieira may not be a monster but a quick sub will get him in to add and protect the lead.

To be honest I can't see a a situation when Neymar/Falcao doesn't score here. I gave you the edge because I think you can score one more than them.

Very close this.

 

[mazhar13]

When I look at DownKuyt's team, it looks somewhat disjointed to me. For me, Neymar and Falcao can't work together at all. Falcao is a striker who needs the supply fully focused on him. He's strong, makes great runs, is a great finisher and striker of the ball, and possesses a strong and accurate header, but he's not as good at linking up with others and supporting others in their attacking game. Neymar, a player who loves to go for goal himself, will struggle to be influential with Falcao as Falcao will always want to go for goal. In Barcelona, Neymar always has Messi and Suarez linking up well with him and providing him the platform to score so many goals. Compare that to Falcao, who was the focal point of Atletico Madrid's attack and had everyone supporting him, including Diego Costa, who started to plunder in goals once Falcao left Atletico Madrid. I just don't see Neymar and Falcao working well together at all. Neymar will have to sacrifice his goalscoring instincts and approach to play a more limited supporting role for Falcao, which is quite detrimental for the team.

Unlike most, I don't mind Özil playing in that AM role as he was always naturally inclined to drift out to the right whilst di Maria always wanted to cut inside from the right side. I actually see that working quite well as Özil was an amazing dribbler during his German years whilst di Maria had that x-factor when he played on the right even if he was in and out of the side under Mourinho.

Behind that front four, I don't really buy it. Stanković was good going forward, but defensively, he didn't have much other than just tenacity and strong tackling. His defensive nous wasn't really that strong, and as a box-to-box midfielder, he was more useful going forward than defending. With that in mind, Yaya Touré has too much to do as a result, and he really wasn't that defensively capable. His main defensive strengths were his strong tackling and strength that enabled him to bully opponents off the ball. He was never good enough to actually be the pivot and main defensive midfielder for his team, which is why Guardiola let him go for Busquets. Seydou Keita was better in that defensive midfield role than Yaya, anyways, for me.

Having said all of that, this means that DownKuyt's defence is more vulnerable particularly with Maicon frequently going forward, leaving that right side particularly weak. VivaMJJ's team is perfectly capable of exploiting that weakness with their front 3 being quite fluid and interchangeable. Behind them is also a better-balanced midfield with Sneijder playing at his ideal role. Khedira can provide the energy and tenacity that Guardiola doesn't have, and Guardiola will make Khedira more effective in his natural game with his better tactical awareness and reading of situations. Whilst Carvajal is the obvious weak point here, Thiago Silva and Walter Samuel is a super-solid back line, and with the Falcao-Neymar incompatibility already present, their job will be made easier.

 

[mazhar13]

By the way, @VivaJanuzaj @MJJ, please state what leagues your players are from just to prevent the vagueness from giving you slight advantages.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Misunderstanding.

Sneijder & Guardiola were wonderful provider of assists. Muller is of course excellent.

With Barcelona, Etoo could rely on more providers of assists so you can't expect the same performances here.

He scored 37 for inter and he scored loads for cameroon. Eto'o's goal scoring prowess should never be in doubt, never! His combination of speed, movement and finishing was of the level that if his team get anything that resembles a foothold, he'll be scoring.

 

[Balu]

Has MJJ hacked Viva's account or have they switched the roles in their good cop, bad cap game today?

Jörg Heinreich mostly played as a left wingback. He got the workrate and stamina to cover the whole wing, but he wasn't really a great defender. And he's probably not suited at all to deal with a free romaing wide forward, like Müller is, when played on the wing. It's certainly a mis-match.

On the other hand, picking Carvajal on his only Bundesliga season and playing him against Neymar sounds very dangerous to me. Carvajal started sensational at Leverkusen and was brilliant going forward, especially in the first half of the season but dropped off a bit in the second half and wasn't anywhere near an elite defender. Not sure if he's now either from a purely defensive point of view, Neymar played some cracking games against Real after all. It's difficult to judge him fairly on just the one season, which was his first season at senior level after all.

I rate Julio Cesar, he was quality in his first 3 years at Dortmund and was a key piece in their first title winning season (before Kohler joined Dortmund). For what it's worth (and I know these ratings are always somewhat flawed but might still give an indication), Kicker rated him as the 4th best player in the league that season, 2nd in the team only to Sammer:

Spoiler

@harms

 

[MJJ]

By the way, @VivaJanuzaj @MJJ, please state what leagues your players are from just to prevent the vagueness from giving you slight advantages.

Bundesliga

Muller (GER)
Khedira (GER)
Carvajal (ESP)
Klos(GER)

Serie A

Cassano(ITA)
Sneijder(NED)
Samuel(ARG)
Silva(BRA)

La Liga

Eto'o(CMR)
Guardiola(ESP)
Abidal(FRA)
Robinho(BRA)

Please add this to the OP @Marty1968

 

[MJJ]

@Downcast writeup.

#2 - High expected complementarity between the Offensive players because they share the same understanding of football (Classico Inspiration)

• Neymar is the brazilian equivalent of ronaldo? Have you seen both play? Neymar is closer to messi than ronaldo.
• Di Maria never made ronaldo shine in his RW incarnation. He was a highly inconsistent winger who was capable of the sublime but would lose the ball just as easily. Was one of the most inconsistent players before being moved to LCM (Not RCM which you stated in this post)

Excellent point.

Di Maria played as a central midfielder during 6 months: he was so brilliant that he was MOTM against Atletico Madrid (final of the ECL in 2014). He is versatile and likes to move a lot.

I prefer Ozil as a pure playmaker and will ask ADM to join the central area to disturb Guardiola/Khedira and create spaces for Ozil.

Thats not his natural game at all, he wasnt a selfless winger who is going to cut inside(without the ball) to disturb pep and create spaces for ozil(how will this create space anyway? You want players to drift wide not cut inside)

#4 - The Battle Midfield should be won thanks to my 2 warriors and the potential defensive contribution of Ozil & ADM

• Sorry what? Ozil and ADM were known to be lazy(in their current positions). Why would you expect defensive contribution from either?
  
• You have stankovic and yaya against pep,sneijder and khedira. I fancy that battle, particularly as you cant close down pep and sniejder at the same time.

#5 - No weak players in defence (please see below)

As we, and balu, have mentioned heindrich was more of a LM/LWB. He is going to have as much trouble against muller as carvajal is going to have against neymar. Furthermore, materazzi is the weakest centre back on the pitch.

IV. DESPITE EXCELLENT PLAYERS, MY OPPONENT SEEMS TO HAVE AN UNPROVEN OFFENSIVE STRATEGY

Please stop this, its more about whether the players can play a system based on their skillsets. Not about replicating the exact role they played in real life.

#2 - Sneijder is not in his preferred position to deliver assists: only Guardiola covers him and there only one pure CF here

Indeed, Sneijder used to play with players with high work rate like Milito, Pandev, Zanetti, Cambiasso... some Warriors. Moreover, Sneijder performed well as a lonely offensive midfieler who work mainly for 2 scorers (Milito & Etoo).

No words.

 

[Ecstatic]

Still... Not that I'm not a fan of storytelling but player profiles are better left in the main thread. More so when they are relatively modern players. People already have a good knowledge on them which the write up and videos won't influence that much imo.

The idea was to illustrate the game. The case of Yaya Touré is very interesting:

- With Barcelona, he played as the midfielder who protects the defence and has to play sometimes in central defence like in the ECL final in 2009
- With Manchester City, you know he mainly plays as a Box-To-Box player and sometimes as a false #10

That is why, some illustrations or videos are not necessarily useless. Moreover, videos were generally inserted into spoilers with the exceptions of some GIFs or some specific scenes like "Neymar who scores despite Carvajal"

To start with what formation are both teams playing, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1?

For one, I don't buy Yaya in that role. Don't think he has the discipline or characteristics to play a pivot. Same with Khedira. He should be back helping out against Neymar instead of playing tag with Stankovic.

4-2-3-1 but Stankovic will me more inclined to harass Sneijeder or Khedira.

Good night. Off to bed too, last comment:

50/50 in possession? I really doubt it, we have two extremely good passers in Guardiola & Sneijder and Khedira who is used to playing possession game for Germany. You have 3 midfielders out of their best position.

And the second question, you chose to avoid answering. I didn't ask the voters what did they think, I asked you.

I don't deny the quality of your players but I have some comments:

- Khedira & Muller are Bundesliga players more inclined to play quickly
- Sneijder has a direct style

Possession is not a key issue imho. Regarding the best providers of assists on the pitch, already replied. Stats don't lie and the duo Ozil/ADM is unbeatable.

Sneijder had wonderful stats with Etoo and.... Milito on the pitch.

You just need to read my previous messages and the presentation of the team.

"The sale of Ozil is very bad news for me,"
"He was the player who best knew my moves in front of goal...I'm angry about Özil leaving." - Cristiano Ronaldo according to Spanish newspaper AS (as translated by The Independent).

Abidal is definitely playing tucked in and we mentioned it in the OP. Abidal is LCB so Thiago Silva can help out when Carvajal gets beaten, which is undeniably going to happen more than once.
.

I am sorry to say CARVAJAL is a JOKE here. As a reminder, you were of those who say "Viera: what a shame. We don't want big names but the greatest players of the concerned league".

I put Vieira on the bench who played in Italy for 5 years with Juve & Inter: 5 trophies, 2 finals of the Italian Cup and a wonderful WC in 2006.

Carvajal in Germany: 1 year only, his 1st season as a professional footballer, 0 trophy, 0 European Cup match played... As showed in my 1sts posts, Neymar humiliated him twice by scoring 2 goals in Spain. So, what to expect from a Carvajal made in Leverkusen?

Has MJJ hacked Viva's account or have they switched the roles in their good cop, bad cap game today?

Jörg Heinreich mostly played as a left wingback. He got the workrate and stamina to cover the whole wing, but he wasn't really a great defender. And he's probably not suited at all to deal with a free romaing wide forward, like Müller is, when played on the wing. It's certainly a mis-match.

On the other hand, picking Carvajal on his only Bundesliga season and playing him against Neymar sounds very dangerous to me. Carvajal started sensational at Leverkusen and was brilliant going forward, especially in the first half of the season but dropped off a bit in the second half and wasn't anywhere near an elite defender. Not sure if he's now either from a purely defensive point of view, Neymar played some cracking games against Real after all. It's difficult to judge him fairly on just the one season, which was his first season at senior level after all.

I rate Julio Cesar, he was quality in his first 3 years at Dortmund and was a key piece in their first title winning season (before Kohler joined Dortmund). For what it's worth (and I know these ratings are always somewhat flawed but might still give an indication), Kicker rated him as the 4th best player in the league that season, 2nd in the team only to Sammer:

Spoiler

@harms

@Balu

Excellent post

 

[Ecstatic]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LA LIGA - Top goalscorers - 2011/2012
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Lionel Messi Barcelona 50

2

Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid 46

3

Radamel Falcao Atlético Madrid 24

4

Gonzalo Higuaín Real Madrid 22

5

Karim Benzema Real Madrid 21

6

Fernando Llorente Athletic Bilbao 17

Roberto Soldado Valencia 17

7

Rubén Castro Betis 16

8

Michu Rayo Vallecano 15


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LA LIGA - Assists table - 2011/2012
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1

Mesut Özil Real Madrid 17

2

Ángel Di María Real Madrid 15

Lionel Messi Barcelona 15
3

Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid 12

Jesús Navas Sevilla 12
4

Dani Alves Barcelona 11


@VivaJanuzaj @MJJ

Any comments?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_La_Liga

 

[Ecstatic]

• Neymar is the brazilian equivalent of ronaldo? Have you seen both play? Neymar is closer to messi than ronaldo.
• Di Maria never made ronaldo shine in his RW incarnation. He was a highly inconsistent winger who was capable of the sublime but would lose the ball just as easily. Was one of the most inconsistent players before being moved to LCM (Not RCM which you stated in this post).

I am not of those who think Messi plays on the left wing.

ADM inconsistent ? Stats - over a long period of time - demonstrate he was consistent in terms of impact on the game everywhere: Benfica, Real, PSG, MUFC at the beginning.

If you want a pure inconsistent player on the pitch, easy to find: his name is Robinho.

• Sorry what? Ozil and ADM were known to be lazy(in their current positions). Why would you expect defensive contribution from either?

Please be serious

 

[Ecstatic]

I hope you will organize a French League Fantasy Draft.

My opponents would be delighted to explain us why Zidane was the best player in the world when he used to play for Cannes*.

* he started his career there

 

[Tuppet]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@VivaJanuzaj @MJJ

Any comments?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_La_Liga

Another wiki link, Viva is going to kill you @Downcast
This is the greatest draft game thread I have seen since diarm forced anto into retirement. Great work guys.

 

[Ecstatic]

Another wiki link, Viva is going to kill you @Downcast
This is the greatest draft game thread I have seen since diarm forced anto into retirement. Great work guys.

I imagine @VivaJanuzaj as a conspiracy theorist saying "We all know the Wiki figures are falsified.

Thanks, I hope this battle entertains you!

 

[MJJ]

I am not of those who think Messi plays on the left wing.

ADM inconsistent ? Stats - over a long period of time - demonstrate he was consistent in terms of impact on the game everywhere: Benfica, Real, PSG, MUFC at the beginning.

If you want a pure inconsistent player on the pitch, easy to find: his name is Robinho.


Please be serious

You think ronaldo and neymar are similar in playing style because they both play as left wingers?

 

[Ecstatic]

Carvajal was an intern/trainee in Germany while all my players are Managing Directors in my team

 

[Ecstatic]

You think ronaldo and neymar are similar in playing style because they both play as left wingers?

Who are the best offensive players in 2016 playing on the left?

Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar. Agree or not?

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Jesus, I've had enough of this bollocks from @Downcast pretty much ridiculing everything we say and ignoring the facts we provide.

I imagine @VivaJanuzaj as a conspiracy theorist saying "We all know the Wiki figures are falsified.

When you bring facts from blogs that anyone can write in to prove Yaya was good at DM for Barca because some random wanker wrote it, or when you bring a quote from wiki that some random wanker could've edited that isn't facts about Heinrich like "He was a versatile player who could play LB, CB, LIB, DM, LM" as opposed to me bringing facts from transfermarkt showing he wasn't actually a LB - that's ridicules.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LA LIGA - Top goalscorers - 2011/2012
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Lionel Messi Barcelona 50

2

Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid 46

3

Radamel Falcao Atlético Madrid 24

4

Gonzalo Higuaín Real Madrid 22

5

Karim Benzema Real Madrid 21

6

Fernando Llorente Athletic Bilbao 17

Roberto Soldado Valencia 17

7

Rubén Castro Betis 16

8

Michu Rayo Vallecano 15


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LA LIGA - Assists table - 2011/2012
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1

Mesut Özil Real Madrid 17

2

Ángel Di María Real Madrid 15

Lionel Messi Barcelona 15
3

Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid 12

Jesús Navas Sevilla 12
4

Dani Alves Barcelona 11


@VivaJanuzaj @MJJ

Any comments?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_La_Liga

Yes, gladly.
1. No one said anything against Falcao's goalscoring skills. Not a single time.
2. Ozil's stats from Real Madrid are worth shit. so don't highlight them in RED AND BIG and than expect that it won't effect the game.
3. di Maria's assisting stats for Madrid are very impressive, but that doesn't even remotely imply that he has anything in terms of passing compared to Sneijder.

So what is it supposed to prove? That Falcao is a great goalscorer? I agere. That di Maria assists a lot? I agree. Or maybe that Ozil is being played way before his peak? I agree.

 

[MJJ]

Who are the best offensive players in 2016 playing on the left?

Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar. Agree or not?

- Ozil & Di Maria know what to do to make Neymar (the Brazilian equivalent of Cristiano) shine.

 

[Ecstatic]

2. Ozil's stats from Real Madrid are worth shit.

You prefer stats from Leverkusen or Stuttgart ahaha

Not about replicating the exact role they played in real life.

Interesting comment. My strategy is based on real life: my priority was to build a consistent tactical strategy.

 

[Balu]

Or maybe that Ozil is being played way before his peak?

That's harsh. Özil has arguably a more clearly defined Bundesliga peak than Khedira and took over as the main playmaker for Bremen in his final season after Diego left. His peak for the nationalteam so far was clearly the 2010 World Cup, when he was still a Bundesliga player. I'm not saying that he didn't improve at Real, but 'way before his peak' seems a bit farfetched.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I don't deny the quality of your players but I have some comments:

- Khedira & Muller are Bundesliga players more inclined to play quickly
- Sneijder has a direct style

Possession is not a key issue imho. Regarding the best providers of assists on the pitch, already replied. Stats don't lie and the duo Ozil/ADM is unbeatable.

Sneijder had wonderful stats with Etoo and.... Milito on the pitch.

You just need to read my previous messages and the presentation of the team.

Where do I start? Khedira & Muller are also playing for Germany NT and Muller is also playing under Guardiola so they can definitely play possession football.
Sneijder played direct football for Inter & Most of the time in the dutch NT, but he has every skills necessary in his Arsenal to play possession football as he is an incredibly gifted players on the ball, being partnered with Muller & Guardiola. Ignoring the fact that we WILL have most of the possession is suicide for you, because you would be way better off going for counters, but trying to force your players to retain possession is very LVG-like.

How can possession not be an issue? And I didn't ask who was the best provider of assists on the pitch? I ask who is the best passer. Do you seriously believe Bundesliga's Ozil & di Maria can pass the ball better than peak Sneijder or Guardiola?

Inter's Eto'o-Diego Milito <<<<< Barcelona's Eto'o-Thomas Muller , to suggest anything different is madness, but than again, collecting your quotes on Muller is also pretty hilarious:

Khedira & Muller are Bundesliga players more inclined to play quickly

Hard to assess the synergies between Muller & the other offensive players.

LB: Jorg Heinrich - Bundesliga 1988/07 - League peak 1996-02

We need a hard-worker guy whose generosity and versatility would enable us to limit the influence of Muller. Any great team needs humble & generous players like Heinrich.

#3 - Muller is a brilliant versatile player but is clearly better as a Support Striker: what a waste

 

[Ecstatic]

- Ozil & Di Maria know what to do to make Neymar (the Brazilian equivalent of Cristiano) shine.

Great scorers need great providers of assists. No debate on this point.

 

[Ecstatic]

Regarding Thomas Muller.

Of course, he is one of the Greatest German players of All-time.

But, he used to play with Lewa, Luca Toni, Klose or Mario Gomez... not the same profile of Etoo.

That is why, the introduction of Muller in your offensive strategy (Sneijder, Etoo) is a question mark.

What does @Balu think ? Muller better as a Support striker?

Bayern Munich is not known to play with a pure #10 no?

 

[MJJ]

That's harsh. Özil has arguably a more clearly defined Bundesliga peak than Khedira and took over as the main playmaker for Bremen in his final season after Diego left. His peak for the nationalteam so far was clearly the 2010 World Cup, when he was still a Bundesliga player. I'm not saying that he didn't improve at Real, but 'way before his peak' seems a bit farfetched.

Personally I think ozil went up a notch at madrid(might have to due with playing for madrid with such gifted attackers) but there isnt a lot between his bundeliga form and madrid form. And we cant really criticize ozil with us playing khedira and carvajal in theirs bundesliga incarnations.

Great scorers need great providers of assists. No debate on this point.

Neymar is much much more than a great scorer. He is the guy you want running this match, get him on the ball enough and he will win the match for you 9 times out of 10.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

- Ozil & Di Maria know what to do to make Neymar (the Brazilian equivalent of Cristiano) shine.

Clearly, while Muller can't find synergies with any player on the pitch. Probably because Angel di Maria is a much more intelligent player than Thomas Muller.

That's harsh. Özil has arguably a more clearly defined Bundesliga peak than Khedira and took over as the main playmaker for Bremen in his final season after Diego left. His peak for the nationalteam so far was clearly the 2010 World Cup, when he was still a Bundesliga player. I'm not saying that he didn't improve at Real, but 'way before his peak' seems a bit farfetched.

As someone who saw him non stop since arriving to Madrid, it's easy for me to say that the change he's done there is beyond maturing but it's build around it. He came as a rather young player and took him a while to understand the rhythm of the big boys and be able to find his control. Plus, until he moved to Arsenal he kept on being a player which, for most big games, disappear and come in and out of the games which was Real Madrid fan's biggest problem with him.

I'm not saying BuLi Ozil > BuLi Khedira, but their roles here are very different. Khedira is playing in the role he played since starting playing football, and is much more reliant on his physical attributes than his technical ones. In the same time Ozil is playing a role he could hypothetically play as CAM, although at Werder Bremen it was very very different from his role. Moreover, Ozil is being asked to do A LOT more defensively than he's used to do for any team and lacks the physical attributes to do.

So you see, I'm not saying BuLi Ozil wasn't good, but the fact is he's got this midfield trio:
Yaya out of the position and league he played his peak in.
Stankovic in a much more defensive role than he's used to and peaked in, in the club he did peak in.
Ozil in a much more withdrawn role, before his peak, and in a position he did not peak in.

while we have
Guardiola in the position he played since Cruyff first saw him in the reserve team and ordered him to move in in the club he peak in.
Khedira in the position and role he played for every team he represented, before his peak.
Sneijder one of the best midfielders in the world at his prime, in his peak club in his peak position*

*Regardless of what DK threw about Sneijder's role here - knowing Sneijder's movements he moves between receiving he ball deep, moving forward with it and drifting between the space at AM to LAM positions. He loves to roam a little to the left flank and he has all the room in the world to drift to here.

 

[Ecstatic]

Robinho against Maicon

What are your views?

 

[MJJ]

Clearly, while Muller can't find synergies with any player on the pitch. Probably because Angel di Maria is a much more intelligent player than Thomas Muller.


As someone who saw him non stop since arriving to Madrid, it's easy for me to say that the change he's done there is beyond maturing but it's build around it. He came as a rather young player and took him a while to understand the rhythm of the big boys and be able to find his control. Plus, until he moved to Arsenal he kept on being a player which, for most big games, disappear and come in and out of the games which was Real Madrid fan's biggest problem with him.

I'm not saying BuLi Ozil > BuLi Khedira, but their roles here are very different. Khedira is playing in the role he played since starting playing football, and is much more reliant on his physical attributes than his technical ones. In the same time Ozil is playing a role he could hypothetically play as CAM, although at Werder Bremen it was very very different from his role. Moreover, Ozil is being asked to do A LOT more defensively than he's used to do for any team and lacks the physical attributes to do.

So you see, I'm not saying BuLi Ozil wasn't good, but the fact is he's got this midfield trio:
Yaya out of the position and league he played his peak in.
Stankovic in a much more defensive role than he's used to and peaked in, in the club he did peak in.
Ozil in a much more withdrawn role, before his peak, and in a position he did not peak in.

while we have
Guardiola in the position he played since Cruyff first saw him in the reserve team and ordered him to move in in the club he peak in.
Khedira in the position and role he played for every team he represented, before his peak.
Sneijder one of the best midfielders in the world at his prime, in his peak club in his peak position*

*Regardless of what DK threw about Sneijder's role here - knowing Sneijder's movements he moves between receiving he ball deep, moving forward with it and drifting between the space at AM to LAM positions. He loves to roam a little to the left flank and he has all the room in the world to drift to here.

C'mon viva be fair. Sneijder doesnt have etoo and milito here. he is going to be shit.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Regarding Thomas Muller.

Of course, he is one of the Greatest German players of All-time.

But, he used to play with Lewa, Luca Toni, Klose or Mario Gomez... not the same profile of Etoo.

That is why, the introduction of Muller in your offensive strategy (Sneijder, Etoo) is a question mark.

What does @Balu think ? Muller better as a Support striker?

Bayern Munich is not known to play with a pure #10 no?

Germany are used to playing with #10 - Ozil, in case you forgot which is much more of a classic #10 than Sneijder is. Sneijder is much more of a CAM/AM incarceration than an pure #10.

Guardiola often says that Muller is one of the smartest footballers he ever worked with, and pretty much every manager who coached him says that. What makes you think that would be a problem?

When did Neymar play with a strong striker like Falcao? He's used to peaking only with Suarez isn't he? Come on - you don't see me throwing shit towards your team in random places without having anything behind it.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Robinho against Maicon

What are your views?

A matchup you are the obvious favourite to win, we will use Robinho to try and catch Maicon off position on his adventures forward. We don't expect Robinho to be a major asset in this game exactly because he's up against Maicon, and with Heinrich(LM) vs Muller(RW) on the other flank it's easy to decide where to aim most pressure to.

 

[MJJ]

Robinho against Maicon

What are your views?

That push

Milan won the game 3-0 btw.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

 

[Ecstatic]

That push

Well done. With Milan, Robinho used to play as a support striker close to Ibrahimovic with limited defensive tasks

Yaya out of the position and league he played his peak in.
Stankovic in a much more defensive role than he's used to and peaked in, in the club he did peak in.
Ozil in a much more withdrawn role, before his peak, and in a position he did not peak in.
.

Already replied.

Yaya used to play behind Xavi & Iniesta. He left the club because Guardiola wanted to replace him by Busquets
Stankovic versatile central midfieder like many famous Serbian players.
Ozil with Germany (WC 2010) played as a #10 (look at Germany against Ghana) , with Bremen

2010 DFB Pokal Final

GK 1

Tim Wiese

RB 8

Clemens Fritz

66'

CB 29

Per Mertesacker

CB 4

Naldo

LB 2

Sebastian Boenisch

CM 22

Torsten Frings (c)

56', 77'

CM 44

Philipp Bargfrede

46'

RW 6

Tim Borowski

68'

70' ------------------------------ Right-Winger

AM 11

Mesut Özil

LW 14

Aaron Hunt

54' ------------------------------ Left-Winger

CF 24 Claudio Pizarro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_DFB-Pokal_Final

 

[Ecstatic]

I will come-back in the afternoon.

I have nothing new to add. All the managers made their jobs.

Up to the readers to express their feelings.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Well done. With Milan, Robinho used to play as a support striker close to Ibrahimovic with limited defensive tasks



Already replied.

Yaya used to play behind Xavi & Iniesta. He left the club because Guardiola wanted to replace him by Busquets
Stankovic versatile central midfieder like many famous Serbian players.
Ozil with Germany (WC 2010) played as a #10 (look at Germany against Ghana) , with Bremen

2010 DFB Pokal Final

GK 1

Tim Wiese

RB 8

Clemens Fritz

66'

CB 29

Per Mertesacker

CB 4

Naldo

LB 2

Sebastian Boenisch

CM 22

Torsten Frings (c)

56', 77'

CM 44

Philipp Bargfrede

46'

RW 6

Tim Borowski

68'

70' ------------------------------ Right-Winger

AM 11

Mesut Özil

LW 14

Aaron Hunt

54' ------------------------------ Left-Winger

CF 24 Claudio Pizarro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_DFB-Pokal_Final

But his role isn't a #10 in this match is it mate? He's playing a lot more withdrawn here.
As for Yaya and Stankovic, I've said all there is to say really..

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I will come-back in the afternoon.

I have nothing new to add. All the managers made their jobs.

Up to the readers to express their feelings.

Agreed.
Good luck.

 

[Ecstatic]

But his role isn't a #10 in this match is it mate? He's playing a lot more withdrawn here.
As for Yaya and Stankovic, I've said all there is to say really..

I will reply later.

Agreed.
Good luck.

Good luck indeed

 

[Gio]

The new Brazil Captain is already one of the top 6 Greatest Left-Wingers of All-Time with Best, Giggs, Gento, Cristiano Ronaldo and Dzajic.

Seems a big claim for someone who has only stepped it up at club level during the last 12 months or so. He could be in a top handful by the end of his career, but if he retires tomorrow he's not there yet. And if he's a left-winger then surely Ronaldinho is as well - and he'd be easily ahead of him as well.