Ter Stegen heroics and a piece of Messi magic.
La Liga 2019/20
- Thread starter carvajal
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It’s a two man team at best. Barca are still having many many players under performing along with a horrible manager
This match just shows by how Atlético have failed to capitalize on Real and Barca's subpar start to the season. They've drawn too many games on the back of poor finishing and easy conceding and they just completely blew it this match by taking it even further.
Barca will get beaten in the quarter finals or semi finals as soon as a team is up against them, just like the last two seasons. Mainly under Valverde, nothing will change. He just doesnt get the best out of them as a collective, and they dont look stable at all. Same old under him, if you have seen one season, you have seen them all. Team incredibly reliant on individual quality, which they have in most games, until they meet a better collective team in the CL knockout stages and lose out.
Do you think they win the CL once another managers comes in?
They have Firpo and Sergi Roberto as fullbacks, 0 wingers and Griezmann on the left.
There is no other team standing out in Europe other than Liverpool right now and they might be out of gas come April after 2 hardcore Premier League seasons. Barca got as much chance as any other elite club.
Well, those 13 weeks involve some of the teams with the most quality in the world, at their peak of fitness and motivation. In this context Barcelona's mistakes are punished more severely, because those sides have more assets to do so, and at the same time can counter Barcelona's attack better.
La Liga sides, on the other hand, are way more vulnerable to Barcelona's virtues, both in attack and defense.
I think Real Madrid, City, PSG and Liverpool will do better than Barca. Juventus and Bayern will fight for it too. Although it will probably be quite close. Hopefully Liverpool will be knocked out.
PSG haven't even made it to the quarters yet, City haven't ever made a semi under Pep. Bayern don't even have a fixed coach right now. What are those expectations based on?
By that token, the triple CL Madrid side ought to have better exploited those same La Liga sides' perpetual and consistent vulnerabilities.
zidane himself said the league is harder to win than CL. I don’t completely agree with him but I see his point
The triple CL Madrid side got more points than anyone in the league under Zidane the first season and won the league the second season. Not the best of examples.
But my point was about Barcelona. Barcelona got defeats vs Milan (2-0), PSG (4-0), Roma (3-0), Liverpool(4-0), Juventus (3-0) in CL with these teams being at their peaks of fitness and motivation. Of course football is not a science and luck plays a part, but that surely shows a pattern that has to be analyzed.
When Messi retires Barsa is in for a world of pain. Replacing all those match winners is going to be impossible.
Zidane probably thinks it's harder for him to motivate his players for the league. But the debate was about Barcelona, so it doesn't apply.
barca are poor away, but again, no team
Has been more consistent this past decade than Barca. More than Madrid
Is Felix possibly flop of the season considering how much money was spent on him?
It's crazy to think that after all those massive amounts of money spent by Barca the last few years they are still so reliant on Messi. Again today with that piece of magic. So much money spent without addressing any of their weaknesses that board should be fired. Love Messi but I still can't see them getting by a good balanced CL squad.
Going by the highlights Atletico were all over Barcelona in the first half.
With Valverde in charge they definitely aren't winnin the CL anytime soon.
With Valverde in charge they definitely aren't winnin the CL anytime soon.
Barcelona just need a top top manager. There is enough quality there.
That's Simeone for you. He has bought 13-14 forwards in his tenure and arguably Griezmann is the only one that's been very good.
This was a good season for Atletico, Valencia and possibly Sevilha to fight for the title, because if they win the smaller games, both Barça and madrid are loosing several points against weaker opposition.
Atlético not winning this season title can be considered somehow a failure if you bare in mind how many points both Barça and Real wasted. They could evem afford loosing against Barça and Real if they won the other matches.
Atlético not winning this season title can be considered somehow a failure if you bare in mind how many points both Barça and Real wasted. They could evem afford loosing against Barça and Real if they won the other matches.
Isn’t Gallardo linked with Barcelona?
I understand we all have our own vision of the world around us. That is ok. But please, next time you say something which is factual I beg you back it up with data.
Madrid have won 4 CLs reaching at least 8 semifinales this past decade. Barcelona have won 2 CLs reaching at least 6 semifinals, one at their historical peak in 2011, the second one counting on Messi, Suarez, Neymar in 2015 at very good ages. The Barcelona I speak about has different characteristics
In the last four years Barcelona have gotten results which are very under par as compared to what it was expected from their own fans. If they have shown consistency, that would be at collecting disappointing results away from home. My theory is their defects are not so exposed in La Liga due to the characteristics of their squad where their phenomenal strikeforce usually makes the difference. I don't think what I say is especially controversial or even thought-provoking. I normally read many of their fans opinions in social media and they also agree with this view.
I don't think Barca play amazingly well, I've often criticized Valverde and agree that their away form is poor.
But name me one team from La Liga who has been more consistent this decade. And the answer? None
So spare me the factual data nonsense when no team has a higher winning percentage from La Liga overall this decade than Barca.
So you think Barcelona has gotten better results than any other team from La Liga this past decade, which is blatantly wrong, and you think this disproves the theory their defects are exposed in Europe?
Seriously enough, I don't know where you want to go with all this.
What team has the highest winning percentage this decade from La Liga? I'm not just talking CL, I'm talking every game played this decade overall.
There are far more games played in La Liga than CL, Barca has won the league 7 of the past 10 years.
Not sure what is so hard to understand about that. You're only focusing on CL, I'm talking about all games played this decade in total.
Madrid had their defects exposed by Barca a majority of the matches played this decade. Barca have been more consistent than Madrid overall, even if Madrid have won CL more often.
Falcao was already there when Simeone joined.
I see no contradiction here. Barcelona have been a phenomenal side for the first years of this past decade, and a very good La Liga side whose defects are more clearly seen in CL during the last years.
When you finally realize my point revolves around this last Barcelona we will have advanced something.
They've been a phenomenal la liga side this entire decade. 7/10 times they've won the league. They've also have a much superior record to real madrid in head to head. The number of times Barca trashed madrid as oppose to the other way around is staggering these past ten years.
Madrid's defects are exposed in la liga, they haven't finished higher than third since 2017. 2018 was their worst la liga finish in 20 years.
So again, Barcelona are the most CONSISTENT team this decade. You are only looking at one tournament, that's where your logic is flawed.
Well, since I said Barcelona is a phenomenal Liga Liga team since my first post, it's blatantly false I am just looking at one tournament.
One thing is what I say, a very different thing what you think I say.
From my part the conversation has ended.
barca have been more consistent than Real Madrid this last decade. More trophies won overall, higher win percentage
A top manager that will do what exactly? Who are these 'top' managers? Barcelona do not need a 'top' manager, but a coach who can go back to the Cruijff methodology.
to those that don't watch them regularly and just check their highlights on YT and judge them by the quality of their goals, Barca could seem like a proper world class team, but in reallity it's a rather flawed squad without almost any covers. both Messi and Suarez score so many wonder goals because often that's the only way of scoring. they aren't really capable of complete onslaught like for example City were in their last 2 seasons. they aren't really a well oiled machine that forces stupid or ugly goals from opponents, it's just that sheer individual quality of Messi is simply too much to handle in most cases.
that's why I was rather optimistic of United's chances vs them, but of course, Messi did his part and that was that. even that 3-0 win vs Liverpool wasn't really telling the whole story about what was actually happening in the game. Barca give plenty of chances to their opponents, but lucky for them, they also have the best GK in the world (the only reason they didn't concede vs Atletico). so, they have the best player and the best GK, but between them is often a complete chaos. pace & physicality are almost completely gone from this team so it's no wonder they lose control in toughest games. Busquets is past it and Rakitic on saturday looked like Scholes when he returned to play vs City. in comparison to City, where Pep's system brings out the best in individuals, here the individuals bring up the best from Barca. you can't even say they have a proper system, most of the time they just improvise and use, like some call it, "pass it to Messi" tactic.
I still think it'll be enough for another La Liga though.
that's why I was rather optimistic of United's chances vs them, but of course, Messi did his part and that was that. even that 3-0 win vs Liverpool wasn't really telling the whole story about what was actually happening in the game. Barca give plenty of chances to their opponents, but lucky for them, they also have the best GK in the world (the only reason they didn't concede vs Atletico). so, they have the best player and the best GK, but between them is often a complete chaos. pace & physicality are almost completely gone from this team so it's no wonder they lose control in toughest games. Busquets is past it and Rakitic on saturday looked like Scholes when he returned to play vs City. in comparison to City, where Pep's system brings out the best in individuals, here the individuals bring up the best from Barca. you can't even say they have a proper system, most of the time they just improvise and use, like some call it, "pass it to Messi" tactic.
I still think it'll be enough for another La Liga though.
Agree 100%. They are a very flawed team and on a good day Messi can mask all that. The 3-0 score line in that CL home win against Liverpool is a great example. Barca imo were clearly outplayed in that game, just didn't reflect in the final score. They have major defensive flaws that they somehow never seem to or even want to address through the transfer market even though they've spent record amounts. Combine that with a lack of speed and athleticism through out the lineup it's no coincidence they've been embarrassed the last few seasons in the CL in the deeper rounds. But even in the earlier rounds they often get outplayed by lesser opponents but a few moments of magic by Messi and they get away with it, not so much when they play more balanced squads in the later rounds though. You can change the manager but they will still have the same weaknesses. Their main problem is investing in the wrong players, so many wasted transfers it's crazy.
It's not only about consistency, it's also about reaction under pressure. And I'm a PSG fan so i know what collapsing under pressure means. Looking at the way Barcelone have been handling 2nd leg games for a couple of years, they clearly have an issue in this regard. Suarez not scoring an away goal in decades, Messi mute for the past 4 years when his team was in trouble (looking at his shoes like a lost child the way he did against France during the WC) is evidence that you need something else to win the UCL. At the same time, Ramos and Ronaldo were always cheering, pushing, fighting in a way they were not able to mirror in LaLiga motivation wise. Real used to thrive under pressure when Barcelona crambled.
To be fair, if Barca had the kind of fixtures run/super jamminess Madrid got in 2016, we'd have won an undeserved travesty of a CL as well. 
In all seriousness though, people still don't grasp how much Messi is basically carrying the team. The CL exits under Enrique and Valverde were very different in my view. The Atletico one was in the middle of the squad being hit by the effects of Enrique's poor squad management. We were crusing to what looked like a double Treble on paper, then starting from the Villareal game when we were two up and comfortable and ended up clinging on for a 2-2 draw, we went on a run of awful form condensed together. We lost something like a 10-12 point lead in the league and went out the CL. But even then that one was close, a single goal and the ref should have gave us a pen when he gave us a free-kick late on.
The following year 2016/2017 was the only time in recent years where I've felt Madrid were comfortably a superior team to Barca, it just wasn't working, and Juve go their tactics right in the first leg and we couldn't do anything. Juve were better, Barca were never in a winning position.
The Tactics against Roma were clearly off, as they had been dismantled in the first leg and we should have been going for the throat early. But a punt, a penalty and a corner put us out. Against Liverpool, the tie should have been won, but there was no answer, no thought clearly. The corner goal they scored isn't something a pro team should ever not be prepared for. And these results are coming in two seasons of huge amounts of flat, 2 dimensional football. In my opinion, if Klopp and Valverde had swapped jobs at the beginning of last season, Barca would have a Treble and Liverpool would have nothing.
Also, since the update this website is really sluggish for me when scrolling and typing. Is there a preferred browser to use?
In all seriousness though, people still don't grasp how much Messi is basically carrying the team. The CL exits under Enrique and Valverde were very different in my view. The Atletico one was in the middle of the squad being hit by the effects of Enrique's poor squad management. We were crusing to what looked like a double Treble on paper, then starting from the Villareal game when we were two up and comfortable and ended up clinging on for a 2-2 draw, we went on a run of awful form condensed together. We lost something like a 10-12 point lead in the league and went out the CL. But even then that one was close, a single goal and the ref should have gave us a pen when he gave us a free-kick late on.
The following year 2016/2017 was the only time in recent years where I've felt Madrid were comfortably a superior team to Barca, it just wasn't working, and Juve go their tactics right in the first leg and we couldn't do anything. Juve were better, Barca were never in a winning position.
The Tactics against Roma were clearly off, as they had been dismantled in the first leg and we should have been going for the throat early. But a punt, a penalty and a corner put us out. Against Liverpool, the tie should have been won, but there was no answer, no thought clearly. The corner goal they scored isn't something a pro team should ever not be prepared for. And these results are coming in two seasons of huge amounts of flat, 2 dimensional football. In my opinion, if Klopp and Valverde had swapped jobs at the beginning of last season, Barca would have a Treble and Liverpool would have nothing.
Also, since the update this website is really sluggish for me when scrolling and typing. Is there a preferred browser to use?
Top managers like Pep and Klopp? Those who are winners, play positive brand of football and build teams for long term gains? Those who are great tacticians unlike Valverde?
We beat a team with Salah, a team with Draxler and a team with De Bruyne, Aguero, Fernandinho, Silva and Kompany on our way to the final, where we bear the team that beat youseTo be fair, if Barca had the kind of fixtures run/super jamminess Madrid got in 2016, we'd have won an undeserved travesty of a CL as well.
It was a veritable murderer's row!
And a harsh red card for torres, and suarez having a moment and trying to pull Pepe's Casquero move and the refs either not seeing or ignoring it...
What does it say, that you could be in that position while having 3 of the 4 best players on the planet?
And the 4-0 against PSG?
They run over you. Tactics might have been wrong but the issue was one of energy and intensity
That never happened. In fact, without hilarious amounts of sheer dumb luck you might have lost thay game outright, too
Similar story, they run you down and you couldn't cope. At least in this one Messi showed up am created a couple big chances to put the tie away
But again, it was a similar story in the first leg. Copious amounts of luck and Messi got you an undeserved lead. Similar to the Roma tie. Also the big difference with 16/17 was the order of games was reversed
Who do you blame at Barca for building that squad...Valverde or that board? I truly believe the board is at blame for building that flawed team. Even though I understand there are better managers that would maybe be able to get more out of that team albeit very little imo, it's obvious they are going after players that don't fit Valverde vision because he doesn't play them. I'm sure Valverde's preference would have been to strengthen other parts of the squad instead of going after some of those useless record transfers that haven't made the team better. Either you keep Valverde and give him players he needs for his vision or get a new manager and make transfers for him. I believe most of the blame should be on that board.
It's been like groundhog day for Barca in CL the last few seasons, it's the same issue over and over. It has nothing to do with tactics or talent imo, it's all about athleticism/speed/stamina/toughness/energy. They keep getting over run and bullied all over the pitch time and time again with no answer. Somehow they keep adding players without addressing their weaknesses.
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They're not a british club and Valverde isn't Cruyff or Van Gaal