10 mins of 16 year old Ansu Fatti has been better than anything I've seen on the United right wing for the past 5 years.
La Liga 2019/20
- Thread starter carvajal
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I don't think these Spanish teams are allowed to defend after conceding a goal though. At least, that's what it seems like. Makes it easier for him.
Nearly got an assist.
It's because goal difference doesn't matter in Spain so these teams go all out no matter what the score.
Stupid overreaction to the defeat last week, fans calling Valverde to be sacked etc. Barcelona are still one of the best teams in the world even without Messi, they stuffed Real Madrid last year 5-1 without him.
Would they win the CL? No, but quarter finalists/semi finalists are very possible. They could win La Liga without Messi though I reckon.
Would they win the CL? No, but quarter finalists/semi finalists are very possible. They could win La Liga without Messi though I reckon.
No, they couldn’t
Beating a poor Betis side and having some nice wins vs Madrid is a far cry from winning the league and getting to a quarter finals
Their second leading scorer in CL for multiple years in a row is literally “own goal”
I've said it before but aside from his incredible ball retention under pressure he doesn't do anything.
As a player, I love him watching him due to his incredible ability to resist any press, but I get why he's low down the pecking order. He's too safe for a Barcelona midfielder.
The second leading scorer in La Liga for the past 3 years is Luis Suarez... and the fourth leading scorer is Antoine Griezmann.
A midfield 3 of De Jong, Busquets and Arthur is not balanced enough. He is the odd one out of the 3, De Jong is more complete and makes Arthur redundant
Remove Messi and they don’t win the league
100%
They had not won 6 matches in a row without Messi prior to the most recent match
They?
Barcelona missed and rested other players during those 6 matches, not just Messi. And they have Antoine Griezmann now... a front 3 of Dembele, Suarez and Griezmann would still comfortably be the best in the league. It's not like they're up against great Atletico or Real Madrid teams. Valverde can keep underperforming and still comfortably win the league regardless, that's how much of a gap there is between squads.
It wouldn't be, because one of them is always injured or too busy firing his multiple chefs so he can eat McDonald's.
Disagree, I know you love to undervalue Messi constantly but without him they don’t win the league last year and they won’t win this year either
Beating a poor Betis team doesn’t change that
That was a funny and interesting game 
.......just 10 goals in the other 9 games before.
The funny conversation right now is that Barca wouldn't win the La Liga without Messi......right because they would be without 30-40 goals......BUT if his replacement is Griezmann or Neymar then they would win it again.
.......just 10 goals in the other 9 games before.The funny conversation right now is that Barca wouldn't win the La Liga without Messi......right because they would be without 30-40 goals......BUT if his replacement is Griezmann or Neymar then they would win it again.
How are people saying Barcelona is still good without Messi? They're shite without him. The fact that the bottom half of the Spanish league refuses to defend doesn't change that. They'd struggle to get through the group stages of the CL like this.
On another note, I don't usually watch La Liga, but my God, do all these players and stadiums clamour for red cards after every tackle? It's very annoying to watch.
On another note, I don't usually watch La Liga, but my God, do all these players and stadiums clamour for red cards after every tackle? It's very annoying to watch.
Barcelona missing Messi is partly psychological they have a quality squad and other forwards, they're just used to relying on him. Normal practice for the team is to constantly look to give him the ball, when he's missing takes them time to adapt. In fairness it usually works pretty well, especially in home games.
They'd still push for the title without him though, they've got Suarez, Dembele, Griezmann, loads of quality midfielders and the La Masia kids, (Perez & Fati looked good yesterday) to bring through as well.
In some types of games though, away from home, against good opposition, where Barcelona have to chase the ball a lot of the game, it could be better not to start him in the team. Given they lost 4-1 to Roma and 4-0 to an under strength Liverpool in last couple of seasons, wondering if Valverde has a plan to do something different this year?
They'd still push for the title without him though, they've got Suarez, Dembele, Griezmann, loads of quality midfielders and the La Masia kids, (Perez & Fati looked good yesterday) to bring through as well.
In some types of games though, away from home, against good opposition, where Barcelona have to chase the ball a lot of the game, it could be better not to start him in the team. Given they lost 4-1 to Roma and 4-0 to an under strength Liverpool in last couple of seasons, wondering if Valverde has a plan to do something different this year?
That's the issue for me, if he is supposed to take Suarez place then he will succeed at Barcelona otherwise he won't. The other option is a 4231 with Griezmann behind Suarez and Messi on the right.
There is one person who keeps trying to make a point that Messi isn't that good and the squad is good enough without him.
I'd love to see Barca win games like Sevilla away last year and countless other ones where they needed Messi to rescue and then win them matches.
That was a funny and interesting game
The funny conversation right now is that Barca wouldn't win the La Liga without Messi......right because they would be without 30-40 goals......BUT if his replacement is Griezmann or Neymar then they would win it again.
They would win it if Neymar was the replacement, not Griezmann. Neymar and Ronaldo are the only players in the world who can replace either the infleunce and/or the goals of Messi.
It would be unbalanced and poor. As we last week, the presence of Suarez pushes Griezmann away from the centre and to the left and he's not very effective there. Dembele spends more time out injured than he plays and even when he plays he's incredibly inconsistent. If you think a Griezmann playing off the left and a Dembele who stays fit for 5 months would replace the 70 odd goals and assists Messi provides then you're hugely mistaken.
I agree with your last line though. Madrid still seem pretty poor and unless Hazard comes into the team and really fires they'll again not challenge. Atleti also look poor in attack yet again so Barca should be winning the title if Messi stays fit for even 30 games.
Yeah. The reason I didn't want this deal to go through is because I know Suarez is absolutely undroppable for Valverde and he'd make Griezmann play in all sorts of roles to ensure Suarez still plays and that would be a kind of pointless signing then for Barca. However, if Suarez does stay injured/dropped, then Griezmann and Messi could form a brilliant partnership.
Griezmann behind Suarez and Messi on the right also kind of has a problem of a lack of width. The 3 man midfield would probably be De Jong, Busquets and Roberto/Rakitic which again isn't creative enough.
Bringing in Neymar and dropping Suarez would be the best option.
A poor Bétis team? They’ll finish midtable.
They beat Bétis without Messi, Suarez, Dembele, Arthur and Rakitic in a way that Atlético and Real Madrid are currently incapable of repeating even if they were at full strength. I’m not downplaying Messi at all, just pointing out how big of a difference there is between Barcelona and the other teams.
You need to change the team you support on your profile, you’re anything but a Barcelona fan really.
I agree with everything you said. It would be unbalanced. They’d never replace his influence and goals, they’d miss him in the big games, etc... they’d still be better than any other team in the league regardless though.
They’re up against 2019 Real Madrid, it’s not 2012
Well, we are in total agreement. Even with my 4231 suggestion, the reason I mentioned it is because while it has obvious flaws it's still the best way to use the three of them at the same time while the best way to use Griezmann and Messi is by playing Griezmann instead of Suarez.
Yeah Real Madrid probably wouldn't be the challenge, Atleti would. Not that they're that great themselves but atleast they know how to get wins.
I think this Suarez injury has come as a blessing in disguise for Valverde and if Griezmann keeps up his form, it would be hard to justify the inclusion of Suarez in the team once he does return.
Nice win last night, though we do have to take into account that Betis, while having a great squad, are still just in the early stages with Rubi. They've lost a few key players, added some new ones and more importantly are trying to play a different kind of football, more direct than under Setien.
Anyway, couple of refreshing aspects last night. More direct football, with more pace and movement and some new faces being integrated like Perez and Fati. I didn't like that Valverde used De Jong in a more advanced position just to play Busquets. At this point the dutchman is a better player than Busquets. He needs to play in his favorite position where he is most comfortable while Busquets takes a backseat in this stage of his career, because his legs are almost gone.
Griezmann will prove to be an invaluable piece if he gets to play in Suarez position. His link up play is better than anyone not called Messi, meanwhile having some of Suarez' best attributes like off the ball movement, defensive workrate, intelligence. I'm just tired of seeing Messi or someone else initiate a fast 1-2 only for Suarez to feck up a simple touch or pass. Funny thing, I always cringed at his celebrations for Atletico but what a difference him playing for your team makes. I was absolutely thirlled when he threw the glitter in the air.
How about Ansumane Fati? The lad is only 16 but in 15 minutes he played like he belonged and been part of the team for years. Still early days but the kid looks promising.
Anyway, couple of refreshing aspects last night. More direct football, with more pace and movement and some new faces being integrated like Perez and Fati. I didn't like that Valverde used De Jong in a more advanced position just to play Busquets. At this point the dutchman is a better player than Busquets. He needs to play in his favorite position where he is most comfortable while Busquets takes a backseat in this stage of his career, because his legs are almost gone.
Griezmann will prove to be an invaluable piece if he gets to play in Suarez position. His link up play is better than anyone not called Messi, meanwhile having some of Suarez' best attributes like off the ball movement, defensive workrate, intelligence. I'm just tired of seeing Messi or someone else initiate a fast 1-2 only for Suarez to feck up a simple touch or pass. Funny thing, I always cringed at his celebrations for Atletico but what a difference him playing for your team makes. I was absolutely thirlled when he threw the glitter in the air.
How about Ansumane Fati? The lad is only 16 but in 15 minutes he played like he belonged and been part of the team for years. Still early days but the kid looks promising.
Yeah I see Griezmann and Messi linking up quite well if he gets to play centrally. However, he did mess up a number of passes, one of which even lead to the Betis second goal. His passing is a huge improvement on Suarez but he can get a lot better yet.Nice win last night, though we do have to take into account that Betis, while having a great squad, are still just in the early stages with Rubi. They've lost a few key players, added some new ones and more importantly are trying to play a different kind of football, more direct than under Setien.
Anyway, couple of refreshing aspects last night. More direct football, with more pace and movement and some new faces being integrated like Perez and Fati. I didn't like that Valverde used De Jong in a more advanced position just to play Busquets. At this point the dutchman is a better player than Busquets. He needs to play in his favorite position where he is most comfortable while Busquets takes a backseat in this stage of his career, because his legs are almost gone.
Griezmann will prove to be an invaluable piece if he gets to play in Suarez position. His link up play is better than anyone not called Messi, meanwhile having some of Suarez' best attributes like off the ball movement, defensive workrate, intelligence. I'm just tired of seeing Messi or someone else initiate a fast 1-2 only for Suarez to feck up a simple touch or pass. Funny thing, I always cringed at his celebrations for Atletico but what a difference him playing for your team makes. I was absolutely thirlled when he threw the glitter in the air.
How about Ansumane Fati? The lad is only 16 but in 15 minutes he played like he belonged and been part of the team for years. Still early days but the kid looks promising.
As for Fati, he really felt like the player Dembele should be. An assured touch, good pace to beat his player, passes that aren't misplaced and pretty direct and a constant threat to his fullback. His linkup play with Semedo was really good.
He messed up a few passes but we have to consider that he is new to his team mates so he has more to learn, as do the other players with him. However, compared to Suarez, he is really miles better at linking up. His first touch allows him more time to inform himself about his surroundings, which is key when you play with constant pressure or against parked buses. Can't wait to see him combine with Messi. The question is what will Valverde do when Suarez, Dembele and especially Messi come back from their injuries.
For example, in league games against the middle and bottom teams, I would try something like 4231 with Messi up top, Griezmann behind him, De Jong and Arthur as a double pivot, Dembele/Perez on the wings. This way you keep both Messi and Griezmann in the middle where they belong. Could interchange positions without losing creativity or directness. Griezmann being a hardworker would also mean that he could help the pivots in defence when need be. Furthermore, De Jong last year worked best in a double pivot with Schone and I feel we could create something similar with him and Arthur. Remains to be seen if Valverde has the guts to drop the likes of Busquets/Rakitic though.
Uncanny how his strides looked almost like Dembele's but decision making and close control were better than the frenchman's. Like I said, these are still early days and he came on against a demoralized team which wasn't that good defensively to begin with, so on another night he could've looked worse. Important that he gets promoted to the B team and gets playing time in the Segunda B. Juvenil A is already below his level I feel.
Love Barcelona but I’m well aware of their flaws. They’ve been painful to watch in recent years without Messi. If Messi was to go to another team I’d still have Barca as my team
Saying they won’t win the league because Messi isn’t there doesn’t mean I am a player fan.
Atletico would thump this Betis side and so will Madrid when they meet next
Seems like Rakitic could very well be on his way out.
Vidal and Arthur came back from Copa America later so they didn't get to have a proper preseason so it seems Valverde is taking it slow with both and I expect Arthur to get minutes vs Osasuna. But as for Rakitic, it seems like Roberto has taken his place in the XI.
It's been a while since Roberto had gotten a run of games in the Midfield. Before then it was some sporadic appearances since he was moved to RB full-time. But with Valverde wanting Semedo to be our first choice RB, he moved Roberto back into the Midfield where I assume he will be fitted into the old Rakitic role and so far it seems to be that case.
Vidal and Arthur came back from Copa America later so they didn't get to have a proper preseason so it seems Valverde is taking it slow with both and I expect Arthur to get minutes vs Osasuna. But as for Rakitic, it seems like Roberto has taken his place in the XI.
It's been a while since Roberto had gotten a run of games in the Midfield. Before then it was some sporadic appearances since he was moved to RB full-time. But with Valverde wanting Semedo to be our first choice RB, he moved Roberto back into the Midfield where I assume he will be fitted into the old Rakitic role and so far it seems to be that case.
Atletico with two 1-0's to start off. Goals will be an issue as Morata isn't clinical and Joao isn't going to be scoring Griezmann numbers in his first season. It's going to be a challenge for Simeone to find his best 11 because there is a lot of quality and depth there. Vitolo perhaps hasn't been the signing anticipated but is definitely a different type of player and a useful option. You can say the same for Lemar. It appears they want him to be a starter as he's a bit different and gives them an attacking option if he can show his true form.
The defense is still very strong and they are well drilled there. Hermoso and Giminez you'd assume will ultimately be the pairing and I think Tripper will be a good fit as he'll get a chance to overlap and put a lot of crosses in to Morata. Midfield is where they have a lot of options. Thomas being the pure DM and since Koke and Saul are obviously key starters you have to imagine it's going to be hard for Herrera or Llorente to get a lot of playing time unless Lemar doesn't quite make it. That's a lot of options for sure. They've tried to be more expansive in the past and resorted back to Saul and Koke in the "wide" positions basically making it a central midfield of four with overlapping full-backs.
The defense is still very strong and they are well drilled there. Hermoso and Giminez you'd assume will ultimately be the pairing and I think Tripper will be a good fit as he'll get a chance to overlap and put a lot of crosses in to Morata. Midfield is where they have a lot of options. Thomas being the pure DM and since Koke and Saul are obviously key starters you have to imagine it's going to be hard for Herrera or Llorente to get a lot of playing time unless Lemar doesn't quite make it. That's a lot of options for sure. They've tried to be more expansive in the past and resorted back to Saul and Koke in the "wide" positions basically making it a central midfield of four with overlapping full-backs.
Morata is being Morata so far with regards to a lot of missed chances and poor decision making. I just find a major lack of creativity in the side and Felix just won't get enough service to score goals. Lemar has started both goals but, just like last season, isn't really influencing play much. Maybe the return of Costa will help but so far, they look solid and as unspectacular as ever.
Barcelona will ask for Neymar´s loan, in exchange for Dembélé´s loan + a mandatory 170 m€ purchase option
The PSG's latest offer to see Neymar in white comes from Paris: Vinícius, one of the two goalkeepers and more than 120 million euros."
Madrid said no
Madrid said no
First article of a newspaper very close to the club being very critical of Zidane.
It talks about the change of system after winning in Vigo, the mess during the match and the assumption that the subtitutions were premeditated.
They accuse him of continuing with the old guard.
https://www.abc.es/deportes/real-madrid/abci-zidane-entredicho-201908260110_noticia.html
Today also Marca says on the cover that "Zidane loses the immunity of the fans", while with the club he still insists on Pogba and shows confidence in his decisions
It talks about the change of system after winning in Vigo, the mess during the match and the assumption that the subtitutions were premeditated.
They accuse him of continuing with the old guard.
https://www.abc.es/deportes/real-madrid/abci-zidane-entredicho-201908260110_noticia.html
Today also Marca says on the cover that "Zidane loses the immunity of the fans", while with the club he still insists on Pogba and shows confidence in his decisions
Always felt that if this deal happens it'll be a loan with an obligation to buy. Dembele as the loan fee for a year makes sense as well. Neymar Messi Suarez and Griezmann with Perez Rafinha and maybe even Fati as backups seems adequate.
Besides it's hard to miss a guy like Dembele who spends more than half the season injured every year.
Yes, it would be too much if they could afford to sign him directly this summer.
This journalist includes Dembelé in the deal but in cadena SER they don't include players,only money.
If they could include Dembelé, it would be ideal, thinking that Paris would buy him next year.
I think even Barca must have finally lost patience with Dembele. The awful performance in the first game and then yet another hamstring injury. He doesn't look like he's ever going to fulfill his potential at this rate.
They lost patience because he left the game hurt, they told him to show up at the grounds for a medical check up and he blew that off to go meet his brother in france, came back for training and they promptly discovered the injury
Yeah and this wouldn't be anywhere close to the first time that he's been extremely unprofessional. They were bound to lose patience at some point.
Adequate
Biggest understatement in football history
I meant more for a backup/option to bring off the bench for the right wing or for when Messi is injured. Dembele would be replaced by Perez and Fati and I guess that may be adequate.
Oh my bad. Read it as if you were talking about Neymar, Suarez, Griezmann and Messi being adequate rather than the bench
