Klopp to leave Liverpool at the end of the season

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
The key word there is 'scrape'. Play that game on a loop 10 times and City go through on 7 or 8 occasions.


100 percent. I love it when the closet scousers on here try to paint Fergie as a dinosaur who wouldn't have been able to adapt to today's level of football, like 1986 was the same level as 2013 :lol:
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Madness that you hear that shit from supposed United fans. Either shows a serious lack of knowledge about the man and his career or like you said possibly closet scousers.

Does my head in when I see people pretend Ike Fergie was some dinosaur stuck in the 90's or something. He was always looking to evolve and would have absolutely no problem adapting to modern day football we see today. See Carlo Ancelotti another great manager that has managed to adapt.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Do any our Pool residents know what, if anything, has changed recruiting wise. I know Edwards has come back but your transfers were so good early days under Klopp for the most part and now seem as random as ours?
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I think we've continued to try and find up and coming players looking to make a step up. That hasn't changed. Every time we go for someone higher caliber, someone else comes along and gets them instead.

That approach is never going to be successful every time though. You're gambling each time and it's incredibly reliant on Klopp getting a tune out of every one, which is never guaranteed.
 
Rojofiam said:
One example: Let's say we lose out 2 points due to a refereeing mistake in a 93rd minute in a game, then next week it happens again. That's 4 points gone in games that the manager cannot do anything about. Why is it a unique take to acknowledge that variance can swing things against you, even if you're doing everything as you should?

There's a thin line between 1, 2, or 3 league titles. Klopp could've easily won 2 or 3. Just like how we could've won 3 or 4 CL titles with Ferguson, instead of 2.
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I get the point, I think everyone does? I just disagree. I’m not sure that’s what variance is either.

The general idea that there are fine lines between winning and losing is true but your 1st example doesn’t hold because we’re talking about achievement season after season. There’s no perfect way to do it but competitions run for the whole season so whilst you will have games you should win, you’ll also have games you should lose but over a season the better teams will win more and the best teams will win the most. That’s not even going into the can of worms that it would be to then start trying to analyse the fact that every game is slightly different and there are so many variables it’s very hard to actually judge anything when you really look into it.
 
Sandikan said:
He doesn't hit Fergie, Pep, Wenger or Mourinho levels really.
The latter two people sometimes forget built superb sides and obviously won more.
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Oh, I agree. He's not mediocre, but he's not quite at those levels. He's a very good manager. But there's clearly a flaw in Klopp that his own fans are effectively admitting when they say he seems done in or broken or whatever is going on for him. He has plenty of upsides, but he'll never be seen alongside the true greats.
 
Klopper76 said:
I think we've continued to try and find up and coming players looking to make a step up. That hasn't changed. Every time we go for someone higher caliber, someone else comes along and gets them instead.

That approach is never going to be successful every time though. You're gambling each time and it's incredibly reliant on Klopp getting a tune out of every one, which is never guaranteed.
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How much do you think Klopp has a say on transfers?

His ability to wring everything out of his players and raise the bottom level is amazing but would you query/question his identification or final say on transfers?
 
Vanrouge said:
Oh, I agree. He's not mediocre, but he's not quite at those levels. He's a very good manager. But there's clearly a flaw in Klopp that his own fans are effectively admitting when they say he seems done in or broken or whatever is going on for him. He has plenty of upsides, but he'll never be seen alongside the true greats.
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Everyone always said Klopp and his teams tend to burn out. But a lot of United fans were over optimistic in how early in his reign that had happened.
Even saying it was last year was a little premature, as he seemed to have fixed the lacking legs mid in one summer.

However, they'd definitely been clinging on with a couple of late wins, and playing us seemed to have totally derailed them.
 
criticalanalysis said:
How much do you think Klopp has a say on transfers?

His ability to wring everything out of his players and raise the bottom level is amazing but would you query/question his identification or final say on transfers?
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Apparently he wanted Nunez, hand picked him after seeing him play in the 21/22 CL against us. Not sure on others. He wanted Brandt over Salah in 2017.
 
Never watched Liverpool often so a moment when I first thought 'Klopp's building a quality team there' was in our draw against Liverpool at Old Trafford in January 2017. They just looked better for good parts of the game. They weren't winning anything yet back then but were slowly building a top team. And then there's problem with United managers over the past decade where our teams tend to look worse as time progresses with managers.

Klopp is top manager and if we had chance we'd got back in time and get him. Thankfully he hasn't won that much in his time at Liverpool (and hopefully they miss out on title) and is leaving in about a month, but have no doubts on his ability. Hopefully he won't come back to the PL. Manage German NT or some club in Italy/Spain/Germany and that's fine. :)
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Not sure if you’ve posted because you agree or are laughing at the Liverpool fan, but they’ve title challenged this year. I don’t think that’ll happen again for at least 4 years. But I think it’ll be even longer than that.
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Laughing at the Liverpool fan. We all know he had them punching above their weight but for some reason one of their own fans can't see it. Very odd.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Laughing at the Liverpool fan. We all know he had them punching above their weight but for some reason one of their own fans can't see it. Very odd.
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Ah yes. Agree

I said on here a few weeks ago that Liverpool fans would make Klopp the problem. It was predictable. That way in their minds it makes it feel like their issues are an easy fix. It won’t be, and it’ll get worse.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Laughing at the Liverpool fan. We all know he had them punching above their weight but for some reason one of their own fans can't see it. Very odd.
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They’re at the green is greener stage now and are trying to convince themselves he was holding them back and the next guy will come in and take them up another level. I can only assume it’s some sort of coping mechanism they’ve invented but they’re in for a rude awakening. :lol:
 
Sandikan said:
He doesn't hit Fergie, Pep, Wenger or Mourinho levels really.
The latter two people sometimes forget built superb sides and obviously won more.
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He's easily on Mourinho's level at least. Not in terms of total trophies but the game left Mourinho by 10 years ago.

Think people are underrating Klopp here, the only thing, and I mean the only thing, that led to Liverpool finishing a point behind City twice was depth. City spent more, so had way more attackers, and so Pep rotates between the CL and weekend games. Klopp had to play Mane / Firmino / Salah and Mane / Jota / Salah pretty much every game in those two seasons.

Is that really a flaw? Had Klopp had the extra £500m or so in net spend, we'd very realistically be talking about 3 leagues and a CL. But it is what it is. Money talks.

Anyway r.e. current Liverpool, their biggest issue was going to be replacing their ageing stars. They finally got round to the midfield and did really well there. The front line was always going to be harder, I don't think people realise how hard it is to find players of the calibre of Mane and Salah. Diaz is a good signing (if a downgrade), their issue is that they're in the market for a CF and RW just like us and there's not that much quality around. Which is why I'm pretty for bringing back Greenwood, given that we realistically need a LW too.
 
Sandikan said:
Everyone always said Klopp and his teams tend to burn out. But a lot of United fans were over optimistic in how early in his reign that had happened.
Even saying it was last year was a little premature, as he seemed to have fixed the lacking legs mid in one summer.

However, they'd definitely been clinging on with a couple of late wins, and playing us seemed to have totally derailed them.
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Fair summary. That last part is especially satisfying. :devil:
 
Telsim said:
So? Did we ever get close to City during that time, or threaten their domination in any way, shape, or form? Nope. Pep's* City vs Klopp's Liverpool was the rivalry of the time, not us. During that period, they also finished with a higher points tally than we've ever had on multiple occasions. And that's before his achievements with Dortmund, of course.

To deny he is one of the best is just frankly stupid.
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How can he be one of the best ever if he's been behind the shitshow that is United multiple times?
 
Telsim said:
Liverpool being the media's darlings has no bearing on Klopp's standing as manager whatsoever. The fact is Liverpool were by and large lost at sea before Klopp, much in the same way we are now. He made them an elite team when before they were anything but. You don't have to like the guy to respect his work. He isn't exactly my favourite person either.
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I don't dislike the guy, In fact I commend what he has done to Liverpool and made them a good team. But that's what they are a good team. if they were elite then they would have had more than 1 PL and 1 CL. Like I said Chelsea have more PL titles and same CL in the same timeline. Media have played a big role in bigging up liverpool at the slightest opportunity. The narrative is always what is presented by media the most not always the truth. Please throw the terms greatest, elite etc way to often to way to small things.
 
Telsim said:
Liverpool being the media's darlings has no bearing on Klopp's standing as manager whatsoever. The fact is Liverpool were by and large lost at sea before Klopp, much in the same way we are now. He made them an elite team when before they were anything but. You don't have to like the guy to respect his work. He isn't exactly my favourite person either.
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You say much in the same way we are now but this is the perspective our fans need.

Liverpool played 1 CL campaign in 9 seasons before Klopp got them back in, not playing a single knockout game in nearly a decade. We’ve not even had 2 seasons in a row outside the top 4.

Liverpool’s 2012 League Cup was the only single trophy they won in the 14 years prior to Klopp winning the CL in 2019, which included a 6 then 7 year trophy drought. In the last 10 years we’ve won everything bar the big 2 trophies and our longest trophy drought is only a single 5 year period.

Liverpool finished 7th, 8th and 8th in 3 of the 5 seasons before Klopp joined and had only ever finished in the top 2 twice in PL history. We’ve only ever finished outside the top 6 once and have finished 2nd twice in the last 7 years.

Liverpool’s title in 2020 under Klopp was their first in 3 decades, we’ve only just passed 1 decade without a title. We’re nowhere near the depths they got to and we could well be on our way. As you say, Klopp made them an elite team when standards were basically on the floor. Forget the terrible defence made of every single trophy he won and constantly coming up short in some of their best seasons. Here he wouldn’t get away with it as our dominance is so very recent and a big reason why most of our fanbase subscribed to be honest.
 
Offside said:
You say much in the same way we are now but this is the perspective our fans need.

Liverpool played 1 CL campaign in 9 seasons before Klopp got them back in, not playing a single knockout game in nearly a decade. We’ve not even had 2 seasons in a row outside the top 4.

Liverpool’s 2012 League Cup was the only single trophy they won in the 14 years prior to Klopp winning the CL in 2019, which included a 6 then 7 year trophy drought. In the last 10 years we’ve won everything bar the big 2 trophies and our longest trophy drought is only a single 5 year period.

Liverpool’s title in 2020 under Klopp was their first in 3 decades, we’ve only just passed 1 decade without a title. We’re nowhere near the depths they got to and we could well be on our way. As you say, Klopp made them an elite team when standards were basically on the floor. Forget the terrible defence made of every single trophy he won and constantly coming up short in some of their best seasons. Here he wouldn’t get away with it as our dominance is so very recent and a big reason why most of our fanbase subscribed to be honest.
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Agreed. I would also be calling for Klopp to be sacked if he won a league, a CL, got within two games of an actual quad, and finished second to City a couple times by a point after scoring 90+ points.
 
Klopper76 said:
I think we've continued to try and find up and coming players looking to make a step up. That hasn't changed. Every time we go for someone higher caliber, someone else comes along and gets them instead.

That approach is never going to be successful every time though. You're gambling each time and it's incredibly reliant on Klopp getting a tune out of every one, which is never guaranteed.
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Thanks Klopper.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
To call a team that reached 3 UCL finals, and winning one, and winning the EPL with other second place finishes, not 'elite' is batsh*t. They were on par with City those seasons.

For the EPL exclusively, he's obviously below Wenger, Fergie and Jose. Considering that whole career I think he would be on par with Wenger and maybe Jose, though he still may have another stint left in him at another club.
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1 league title will never be elite.

He’s nowhere near Jose’s equal - considering whole careers. Needs to win more.
 
Surprising to see Liverpool fans convincing themselves that Klopp needs to go "anyway" since he isn't good any longer. He's basically kept them competing in spite of the financial limitations he's been made to work under. I can see a 10-15 point drop without him.
 
erikcred said:
Agreed. I would also be calling for Klopp to be sacked if he won a league, a CL, got within two games of an actual quad, and finished second to City a couple times by a point after scoring 90+ points.
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Dumb response. It didn’t all happen at once.
 
Offside said:
Liverpool played 1 CL campaign in 9 seasons before Klopp got them back in,
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Think you mean 1 in 7. The 9 seasons before 2017/18 which is the year they first played CL under him

16/17 no CL
15/16 no CL
14/15 CL
13/14 no CL
12/13 no CL
11/12 no CL
10/11 no CL
09/10 CL
08/09 CL
 
He's a great manager plain and simple, evident enough by overjoyous posters in this very thread at the announcement of the news. Not on Fergie and Pep level, but certainly ahead of Wenger for me. Probably ahead of Mourinho too, simply because of the attacking style of football he employs. Unlucky not to have more titles, as some of the 2nd place points totals they racked was enough to win leagues by large margins, absurd they came 2nd, not that any of us would complain.

He's done a poor rebuild job though, and with Salah and Van Dijk getting on now, that team is bereft of quality they had during their best spell under him. Even though they pushed into title race this late in the season, they're not a player or two away from winning it next year, he's got them punching above weight this season and it's going to show next season.
 
ShoePolish said:
He's a great manager plain and simple, evident enough by overjoyous posters in this very thread at the announcement of the news. Not on Fergie and Pep level, but certainly ahead of Wenger for me. Probably ahead of Mourinho too, simply because of the attacking style of football he employs. Unlucky not to have more titles, as some of the 2nd place points totals they racked was enough to win leagues by large margins, absurd they came 2nd, not that any of us would complain.

He's done a poor rebuild job though, and with Salah and Van Dijk getting on now, that team is bereft of quality they had during their best spell under him. Even though they pushed into title race this late in the season, they're not a player or two away from winning it next year, he's got them punching above weight this season and it's going to show next season.
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Agree. Happy he's leaving because he's quality and not much out there to choose from to replace him. Pep next fingers crossed.
 
Charlie Foley said:
Think you mean 1 in 7. The 9 seasons before 2017/18 which is the year they first played CL under him

16/17 no CL
15/16 no CL
14/15 CL
13/14 no CL
12/13 no CL
11/12 no CL
10/11 no CL
09/10 CL
08/09 CL
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Yeah sorry. Their knockout game against Porto in 2018 was their first in 9 years since losing to Chelsea in 2009.
 
Sandikan said:
He doesn't hit Fergie, Pep, Wenger or Mourinho levels really.
The latter two people sometimes forget built superb sides and obviously won more.
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Wenger never won the Champion's League.

I'd put Klopp on par with Wenger
 
He’s a great manager and I would probably put him above Pep in terms of ability. He made Liverpool a force again and they’ll no doubt fall from grace once he leaves. However, as contradictory as it sounds, you’re not going down as one of the all time greats by finishing second best most of the time, or worse.
 
erikcred said:
Agreed. I would also be calling for Klopp to be sacked if he won a league, a CL, got within two games of an actual quad, and finished second to City a couple times by a point after scoring 90+ points.

Offside said:
Dumb response. It didn’t all happen at once.
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Sigh! But you apparently think it's possible to win the league and finish second to City twice in the same season. Pretty sure not even Fergie could ever achieve that.
 
1 PL and 1 CL puts him up there as a terrific coach but not among the very best. Having said that he did do a brilliant job at Liverpooo. In 2016 if someone asked what’s more likely - City winning 5 out of 6 PL titles and a CL or Liverpool winning a PL and CL, I’d say the former. So he’s done a fantastic job but he needed to be more consistent (should never have finished below us) and won a couple more league titles to be among the true greats. Let’s see how he does in his next job.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
1 league title will never be elite.

He’s nowhere near Jose’s equal - considering whole careers. Needs to win more.
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I mean the the AC Milan team everyone raves about with Kaka, Rui Costa, Sheva etc only won one league title as well, would we say they weren't an elite team?

Jose had dominant teams in his first spell with Chelsea and then Inter, one would argue the Madrid team was a super team as well though they were up against Pep's Barca. He's had it easier than Klopp in terms teams that were stronger than the competition. Klopp's two wins with Dortmund shouldn't be ignored.

I would still pick Jose over Klopp overall but the difference is not that great. Klopp might still land a job at a big club so he can upgrade his legacy.
 
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