You do see the irony in this right? Media have portrayed them to the best thing ever when in fact Chelsea have won more during his time here with multiple managers.
Klopp to leave Liverpool at the end of the season
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
- Start date
You do see the irony in this right? Media have portrayed them to the best thing ever when in fact Chelsea have won more during his time here with multiple managers.
I’m sick to death of reading about bloody points totals to show how amazing klopp is. Surely that says everything you need to know
If all you see is trophies won and points totals, that's your fault.
It is a fair criticism considering how he's moronically behaved towards multiple journalists who had the temerity to not brown nose him in interviews.
Wtf does that even matter? Keep reading that he had more points than Fergie ever did too as some kind of point to show how amazing he is yet you can never compare points totals across different seasons anyway. It’s madness how much it’s pointed out he had ‘good points’
Common perception would have you believe that he is leagues above someone like Simeone, but if "almosts" can garner so much adulation is that really the case?
https://www.transfermarkt.us/more-c...o-keep-exceeding-expectation/view/news/435939
https://www.transfermarkt.us/more-c...o-keep-exceeding-expectation/view/news/435939
You don't get 97, 99 and 92 points in this current Premier League era without being one of the best club sides of the last few years, if not ever. Neither do you get to 3 Champions League finals in 4 seasons. And no average manager can reach this level either.
We should be thankful they won way less than what they deserved in those 4 years between 2018 and 2022, instead of this insecurity about how Klopp is just another Ranieri, and how their key players are actually all shite in reality.
You don't think how many points won and goals scored paints a worthwhile picture of your season? Ole getting 74 points getting 2nd is obviously inferior to getting 97 points while finishing 1 point of first place. And Klopp had less money to work with than post Saf United managers. No you don't get a trophy for it but for it still shows the quality of your management and the team.
Liverpool being the media's darlings has no bearing on Klopp's standing as manager whatsoever. The fact is Liverpool were by and large lost at sea before Klopp, much in the same way we are now. He made them an elite team when before they were anything but. You don't have to like the guy to respect his work. He isn't exactly my favourite person either.
I think its just the natural aversion of man utd fans not wanting to talk up a Liverpool manager while we are still debating progress with Ten Haag.
And thank feck for Real Madrid.
I think points totals in certain seasons are totally over blown yes. Weak leagues, shit teams, no other competitions. Lots can affect it.
maybe ole only got 74 points but in that season how many did klopp get? Or do we only focus on the seasons he had more points?
klopp spent millions ffs. I’m not saying he hasn’t done well for Liverpool but these justifications and what not to over exaggerate how well he’s actually done is something else.
Ever?
that team finished below Ole's United and Ten Hag's United. Fergie never finished lower than 3rd in the PL. They are incomparable as managers.Correct
True about ole finishing 2nd over Klopp, but we also just knocked out Liverpool of the Fa Cup. Nobody here wouldn't honestly swap managers in an instant. Klopp has spent but still nowhere us or City and probably Chelsea.
No, I think they have had 2 of the greatest managers of all time in Paisley, and Shankly, but they won multiple trophies. Klopp won 1 EPL and 1 UCL, and a few domestic cups. 2nd is first loser, no matter how close you come. That counts both in the league and the Champions league.
Is success that binary? Yes, absolutely.
EverEver?
the exact nonsense I’m on about
Ever?
Football is played on a much higher level than even 15 or 20 years ago, let alone several decades ago, so yes.
I also stated that their big team was from 2018 until 2022. ETH's arrival is basically the same time their downfall started. When they finished 4th in 2021, it was an off-year for then, I have no problems admitting that.
Their 18/19, 19/20 and 21/22 sides were still on an exceptionally high level, and it says it all that they were a real danger to Pep's City sides
Klopp's true achievements are the trophies he won. He can be happy that he won the Premier League once in nine years. Not a great record for the very best managers, but still much better than most. Especially as he did it with a club without a recent history of winning. It was great that he brought plucky underdogs Liverpool - which is what they had been for 30 years - into the title picture. Obviously, winning the Champions League is huge. To be fair, considering the track record of the last 30 years, finishing second and reaching finals is massive for Liverpool. I understand why people would put that up as achievements. Getting loads of points must also be important when you are used to not winning a lot. In fact, I cannot believe there is not a high points trophy that Liverpool could have been given. Seems unreasonable to not give trophies for points total.
ExactlyEver
the exact nonsense I’m on about
Ever
the exact nonsense I’m on about
The only nonsense is the opinion of insecure United fans in this thread. Don't worry, we will have better teams in the future than Klopp's best Liverpool sides. No need to rewrite history or to belittle their peak level and achievements in those 4 seasons.
But... That's not the debate. Nor is it whether he's a good/excellent coach.
It's about his standing in the game, and it's about the achievements of his team. When people talk about SAF's achievements, they don't talk about the times he came second within a point or equal on points but worse GD, you talk about titles - getting your team over the line, getting them to win things, that's the hardest thing in football (except when you've systemically cheated for 10 years creating an unfair playing advantage) and that's why those are the things that are looked at first and foremost.
And while he's done very well, his trophy haul isn't particularly impressive, nor did he particularly overperform.
This thing of bringing up his second rank finishes and his finals lost... there's no other manager for whom losing is such a badge of honour. I'd argue the amount of finals lost by Klopp's teams absolutely goes in his minus column.
Ever?
He had several incredibly average finishes in the first division though before he got going.
Weird logic. I suppose that means the 2009 Barca team isn't as good as the 2024 Real Madrid team, as football is played on a much higher level now.
No, it isn't. Because if a random person who doesn't follow football checks wikipedia to see what Liverpool achieved under Klopp, I assume they'll have the same knowledge about it that you do? Judging by the logic you apply in your post, maybe they will.
I'm not sure that I haven't crossed over into RAWK with some of the BS on here. Winning is everything. This crap that he was a close loser is horseshite. I said the same thing when people were overblowing Poch.
Do any our Pool residents know what, if anything, has changed recruiting wise. I know Edwards has come back but your transfers were so good early days under Klopp for the most part and now seem as random as ours?
You're correct. It doesn't diminish what Barcelona achieved, but if they time travelled to 2024 and had to play City, Madrid, Arsenal, etc. without any preparation, they would lose. If you gave them a few months to train up to the current level, it would probably be different, though.
I think the weird logic is saying that footballers and teams from the 80s, 90s, 00s or even before can be considered better than what we're seeing in 2024, dismissing the evolution of tactics, medicine and sports science among other things.
Just go watch back a few PL games from 2004. They will look like friendly games compared to a 2024 Premier League match.
I can't believe that Klopp invented football!
The hard part is getting the team over the line. You put a good team together you can amass points. Being able to take a team that extra step to winning things is what shows true quality.
Okay you have no clue. Fair enough.
Ah you're one of those. Good to know.
This is a weird take. You compare achievements relative to the context and time period in which they were achieved.
Would you have Marcell Jacobs as a greater sprinter than Jesse Owens?
There are plenty of Pool fans on radio, forums, Reddit etc. turning on Klopp. That is mental and shows how far loyalty goes in football. No wonder the poor fecker is exhausted.
The type of scouse bootlicking that's straight out of Gary Neville's "Trent is a freak of a player and is miles better than I ever was" playbook.
Pep's Barca would have absolutely twatted this current Real Madrid side, regardless of how much sports science has developed over the last 15 years.
Spot on. If it wasn’t for cheating Citeh they would have won a few more league titles.
Not even close. I think that football has regressed over the past few years. I honestly don't think there is a great side out there at the moment.
So would United. Klopp has finished 2nd to City just as many times as United have since City started cheating. The difference is we don't brag about finishing 2nd.
Nope, it doesn't work like that. There are too many variables to have absolutes in the "if" scenario. For example, if City didn't cheat, United may have won the Aguero goal title, changing the trajectory of top flight English football. If City didn't cheat, Brendan Rodgers may have won his title, and Klopp wouldn't even be with Liverpool potentially. Again, changing the trajectory of the league. There are a million things that would have happened before Klopp winning the league "if City didn't cheat".
Messi would have no chance in modern football...