Kevin De Bruyne

Thunderhead said:
depends where you lose possession, if you're losing it in the centre of the park that's worrying, if you're losing it trying to play a pintpoint pass through the lines at the edge of the oppositions box then that's not as big an issue
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Yeah that's the case too. Apart from all that, KdB is among top 10 when it comes to losing possession via unsuccessful touches and dispossessed(tackled I guess). So saying he won't lose possession as often is silly thing to say.

Edit: This is nothing against KdB's quality btw, he is obviously among the best players in the league.
 
I say ...

Zehner said:
but de Bruyne doesn't lose possession as often
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... you quote me as ...

roonster09 said:
You said KdB doesn't lose possession
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... although I excplitly stated ...

Zehner said:
And while it is true that de Bruyne plays in a somewhat similar fashion at City he's by no menas as extreme.
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... and then accuse me of using strawman arguments? Wow.


Just for the record: According to whoscored, Pogba was dispossessed 2.1 times per 90 minutes in 2018/19, de Bruyne 0.8 times. This can partly be attributed to Pogba attempting much more dribbles (1.7) than de Bruyne (1) but as one can see, the relation isn't proportional (2.65 vs 1.7) which implies that Pogba is not only riskier but also worse while doing so. De Bruyne also had a slightly better pass success percentage (83.7% to 82.8%) and significantly fewer bad first touches (1.2 to 2.5) while Pogba took more shots (3 to 1.6) and long balls (4.7 to 2.4).

It's true that de Bruyne took much more risks in the 17/18 season than in 18/19 (dispossessed: 1.6, dribbles: 1.7, shots: 2.5, long balls: 3.5) but a) these numbers are still significantly below Pogba's in 18/19 and b) they were justified by de Bruyne's efficiency: 2.9 key passes per game (Pogba: 1.6), 16 assists (Pogba: 9), 0.4 through balls (Pogba: 0.2), 8 goals (Pogba: 6 without penalties), all the while his maintaining a better passing success rate (83.4 to 82.8). So yeah, both are similar in the sense that they take many risks for midfielders. Yet Pogba has less end product although he's definitely much more risky in his decision making, especially regarding his ball carrying/sluggishness on the ball (as evidenced by him getting dispossessed almost thrice as much).
 
Zehner said:
I say ...



... you quote me as ...



... although I excplitly stated ...



... and then accuse me of using strawman arguments? Wow.


Just for the record: According to whoscored, Pogba was dispossessed 2.1 times per 90 minutes in 2018/19, de Bruyne 0.8 times. This can be attributed to Pogba attempting much more dribbles (1.7) than de Bruyne (1). De Bruyne also had a slightly better pass success percentage (83.7% to 82.8%) and significantly fewer bad first touches (1.2 to 2.5) while Pogba took more shots (3 to 1.6) and long balls (4.7 to 2.4).

It's true that de Bruyne took much more risks in the 17/18 season (dispossessed: 1.6, dribbles: 1.7, shots: 2.5, long balls: 3.5) but a) these numbers are still significantly below Pogba's in 18/19 and b) they were justified by de Bruyne's efficiency: 2.9 key passes per game (Pogba: 1.6), 16 assists (Pogba: 9), 0.4 through balls (Pogba: 0.2), 8 goals (Pogba: 6 without penalties), all the while his maintaining a better passing success rate (83.4 to 82.8). So yeah, both are similar in the sense that they take many for midfielders risks but Pogba has less end product although he's definitely much more risky in his decision making, especially regarding his ball carrying/sluggishness on the ball (as evidenced by him getting dispossessed almost thrice as much).
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Shows how fecking clueless your entire argument is. KdB losing possession bit less times than Pogba means feck all as prototype Pep player is someone who doesn't. So Pogba can't play under Pep is just nonsense.

KdB's 2017-18 is compared to Pogba's 2018=19, :lol: and now considering total assists when KdB played more mins.

Pogba - 0.4 assists per 90 mins
KdB - 0.5 assists per 90 mins

Pogba - 0.3 goals per 90 mins
KdB - 0.2 goals per 90 mins

Pogba - 3.1 dribbles per 90 mins
KdB - 1.8 dribbles per 90 mins (funny how dribbles are ignored when you can't shut up about it in Messi vs Ronaldo thread, arguing how it creates space)

This is ignoring that KdB played in much better team and players, whereas Pogba played under Jose and defensive football.

This isn't even KdB vs Pogba, this is your point about prototype Pep player and then moving goal posts and somehow making this argument into Pogba vs KdB.
 
Not as good as Lampard or Gerrard yet, recency bias here, those two I'd everything De Bruyne has for a longer time.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Not as good as Lampard or Gerrard yet, recency bias here, those two I'd everything De Bruyne has for a longer time.
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Gerrard and Lampard were key players in a CL-winning team. When De Bruyne wins a CL, I might involve him in conversations of all-time PL midfield greats but not yet.
 
VorZakone said:
Gerrard and Lampard were key players in a CL-winning team. When De Bruyne wins a CL, I might involve him in conversations of all-time PL midfield greats but not yet.
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That doesn't make them better players than De Bruyne empirically speaking.

Numerous factors come into play to winning such competitions. R9 & Maradona never won the CL but at their best, they're better than 95% of the players that did. Then you have to analyse how those respective teams won those competitions. Chelsea were arguably one of the worst CL winners ever and that campaign never showcased how good a player Lampard was at all. In fact, he was past his best.
 
VorZakone said:
Gerrard and Lampard were key players in a CL-winning team. When De Bruyne wins a CL, I might involve him in conversations of all-time PL midfield greats but not yet.
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It always strikes me as odd that some people rate individual players based on team achievements. Is Wijnaldum now one of the greatest CMs seen as he was a key player in a CL winning side? de Bruyne has given some excellent performances for City in Europe, against PSG under Pellegrini and last season in the home leg against Spurs he was imperious. But because Aguero missed a penalty in the first leg and VAR gave an offside in the second leg, de Bruyne has lost his chance to be rated as highly as others in your eyes. The truth is it shouldn't really matter. Watch Lampard, Gerrard and de Bruyne play and rate them based on their performances, not how far the team they represent has progressed in a competition.
 
roonster09 said:
KdB's 2017-18 is compared to Pogba's 2018=19, :lol:
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Funny that you find that funny because you were the one who did it first when you posted that image, remember? I happily focus on the 2018/19 stats since they show the difference in playstyle even more drastically.

roonster09 said:
and now considering total assists when KdB played more mins.
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You've got a point here. Pogba played 3012 minutes in 2018/19, de Bruyne 3085 in 17/18. I'm sure Pogba would've turned this statistic upside down if he had played those additional 73 minutes.

roonster09 said:
KdB losing possession bit less times than Pogba means feck all as prototype Pep player is someone who doesn't.
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As I said, de Bruyne is not a prototype Pep player but he is much closer to that concept than Pogba. The stats show it but everybody with eyes and a football brain should see it anyway. Pep's system revolves around ball circulation and patience. There's hardly any top midfielder who's more "head through the wall" and lets the ball circulate less than Pogba. If you don't believe me for whatever reasons, here are more than enough people who criticize him for clinging to the ball. I mean, it couldn't be more obvious.

roonster09 said:
funny how dribbles are ignored when you can't shut up about it in Messi vs Ronaldo thread, arguing how it creates space
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Did it ever occur to you that Pogba and Messi play in different positions?

And yes, dribbling should create space but not every dribbling does. That's what I mean when I say Messi is extremely good at making his dribblings count. Iniesta, Modric, Thiago or from the younger generation Brandt, Arthur or de Jong are very good and frequent dribblers. Pogba is a good one, too, but too but rarely picks the right moments. And it shows in the stats. You won't find any top midfielder, not even dribbling greats like Modric or Iniesta, who even come close to 3 dribbles per game. That's a stat a winger can be proud of. Cristiano hasn't had so many dribbles per game since 2010.

That's not even necessarily a bad thing. In a defensive team that focuses on quick transition and counter attacks it can be extremely valuable and from what I've heard of Solskjaer's idea of playing football he might even be the perfect fit, just like he was for Juventus or would be for Liverpool or Atletico. But we are talking about a Pep system.
 
Zehner said:
Funny that you find that funny because you were the one who did it first when you posted that image, remember? I happily focus on the 2018/19 stats since they show the difference in playstyle even more drastically.


You've got a point here. Pogba played 3012 minutes in 2018/19, de Bruyne 3085 in 17/18. I'm sure Pogba would've turned this statistic upside down if he had played those additional 73 minutes.


As I said, de Bruyne is not a prototype Pep player but he is much closer to that concept than Pogba. The stats show it but everybody with eyes and a football brain should see it anyway. Pep's system revolves around ball circulation and patience. There's hardly any top midfielder who's more "head through the wall" and lets the ball circulate less than Pogba. If you don't believe me for whatever reasons, here are more than enough people who criticize him for clinging to the ball. I mean, it couldn't be more obvious.


Did it ever occur to you that Pogba and Messi play in different positions?

And yes, dribbling should create space but not every dribbling does. That's what I mean when I say Messi is extremely good at making his dribblings count. Iniesta, Modric, Thiago or from the younger generation Brandt, Arthur or de Jong are very good and frequent dribblers. Pogba is a good one, too, but too but rarely picks the right moments. And it shows in the stats. You won't find any top midfielder, not even dribbling greats like Modric or Iniesta, who even come close to 3 dribbles per game. That's a stat a winger can be proud of. Cristiano hasn't had so many dribbles per game since 2010.

That's not even necessarily a bad thing. In a defensive team that focuses on quick transition and counter attacks it can be extremely valuable and from what I've heard of Solskjaer's idea of playing football he might even be the perfect fit, just like he was for Juventus or would be for Liverpool or Atletico. But we are talking about a Pep system.
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:lol: fecking hell, shifting goal posts, loads of nonsense. In short, typical Zehner post. Maybe I should call Prototype Zehner post.

You don't even have a clue what you are arguing about. Again prototype.
 
Zehner said:
Not a chance Pogba would start under Pep ahead of de Bruyne, David Silva, Bernardo Silva or even Gündogan. Every single one of those players is much better suited for Guardiola's style than Pogba. He would've to change his decision making completely under Guardiola to win a starting spot. As of right now, Pogba is like the antithesis to Xavi who still encorporates the prototype of a Pep midfielder.
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Guardiola isn't that rigid in my opinion. Pogba is arguably more talented than all of those players and would obviously be a key player for City.
 
roonster09 said:
:lol: fecking hell, shifting goal posts, loads of nonsense. In short, typical Zehner post. Maybe I should call Prototype Zehner post.
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Is that your default argument? Sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming 'SHUT UP! YOU'RE SHIFTING GOAL POSTS!'?

To each their own I guess. Probably serves me right for trying to have a reasonable debate about Pogba in a United board. You just have to love people who can't take off their tinted glasses.
 
Also people talking about Pogba losing possession ignore the fact that he has been playing in a disjointed team with very little creativity for a long time.

If you play for City you don't have nearly as much onus to create something out of nothing and nearly always have a passing option.
 
Zehner said:
Is that your default argument? Sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming 'SHUT UP! YOU'RE SHIFTING GOAL POSTS!'?

To each their own I guess. Probably serves me right for trying to have a reasonable debate about Pogba in a United board. You just have to love people who can't take off their tinted glasses.
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It's not default argument, it's used when necessary, usually when you make any posts outside Bundesliga thread or Messi/Ronaldo thread. You posts on Pogba are just ridiculous and actually shows how clueless you are. You just make up things with every post and I know this as you did this in few arguments with me.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Guardiola isn't that rigid in my opinion. Pogba is arguably more talented than all of those players and would obviously be a key player for City.
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He had a similar player in Yaya in Barcelona and we all know how that went out. If he fancied such players there' s also the question why he never went for them at his clubs and instead focused on the players who are typically associated with him. I think Guardiola didn't buy a single player of Pogba's profile throughout his whole career. He was never even interested in those dynamic and strong midfielders.

It's also a question of how you define talented. I'd say the most technically gifted midfielders around are currently Thiago and Isco. I don't think Pogba is technically more gifted than, say, Bernardo Silva. He does more pieces but also has more fluky touches and misplaced passes. I also think his pure size holds him back immensely. He'll never have the agility to develop the pressing resistance you need nowadays. Those turns on the heels that open up space will never really be his and nowadays that's such an important characteristic for midfielders.

I honestly think it's a waste that he was brought up as a midfielder. With his skill set and physical attributes he could've easily become the best striker in the world.
 
roonster09 said:
It's not default argument, it's used when necessary, usually when you make any posts outside Bundesliga thread or Messi/Ronaldo thread. You posts on Pogba are just ridiculous and actually shows how clueless you are. You just make up things with every post and I know this as you did this in few arguments with me.
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I make up things? :lol:

Whatever mate. If that makes you feel better, enjoy. Don't want to burst the bubble you're defending so hard.
 
Zehner said:
I make up things? :lol:

Whatever mate. If that makes you feel better, enjoy. Don't want to burst the bubble you're defending so hard.
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:lol:

You made up in this very thread and the point you are arguing is made up one.
 
Zehner said:
He had a similar player in Yaya in Barcelona and we all know how that went out. If he fancied such players there' s also the question why he never went for them at his clubs and instead focused on the players who are typically associated with him. I think Guardiola didn't buy a single player of Pogba's profile throughout his whole career. He was never even interested in those dynamic and strong midfielders.

It's also a question of how you define talented. I'd say the most technically gifted midfielders around are currently Thiago and Isco. I don't think Pogba is technically more gifted than, say, Bernardo Silva. He does more pieces but also has more fluky touches and misplaced passes. I also think his pure size holds him back immensely. He'll never have the agility to develop the pressing resistance you need nowadays. Those turns on the heels that open up space will never really be his and nowadays that's such an important characteristic for midfielders.

I honestly think it's a waste that he was brought up as a midfielder. With his skill set and physical attributes he could've easily become the best striker in the world.
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Yaya Toure is a dramatically different player to Pogba.

Technical ability is more than being short and having a drop of the shoulder. I personally think you hugely underestimate the importance of playing in a brilliant team rather than a hugely disjointed one.

I think if Pogba signed for City next season he would be competing for the Balon dor so we are just very far apart on this. United have a ton of average players (literally loads), Pogba is brilliant in my opinion.
 
BobbyManc said:
It always strikes me as odd that some people rate individual players based on team achievements. Is Wijnaldum now one of the greatest CMs seen as he was a key player in a CL winning side? de Bruyne has given some excellent performances for City in Europe, against PSG under Pellegrini and last season in the home leg against Spurs he was imperious. But because Aguero missed a penalty in the first leg and VAR gave an offside in the second leg, de Bruyne has lost his chance to be rated as highly as others in your eyes. The truth is it shouldn't really matter. Watch Lampard, Gerrard and de Bruyne play and rate them based on their performances, not how far the team they represent has progressed in a competition.
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To add to that, Lampard's legacy as one of the great PL midfielders was secure long before he eventually won the CL in 2012. He had clearly proved himself at that level with his performances for Chelsea through the 2000s even though they fell narrowly short on a few occasions.

De Bruyne's had a six-year stretch now where he's been outstanding for almost the entire period. As much as he benefits from playing for a stacked side and countless attacking targets to hit, he's also been talismanic in inspiring lesser players as he showed with Wolfsburg.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Yaya Toure is a dramatically different player to Pogba.

Technical ability is more than being short and having a drop of the shoulder. I personally think you hugely underestimate the importance of playing in a brilliant team rather than a hugely disjointed one.

I think if Pogba signed for City next season he would be competing for the Balon dor so we are just very far apart on this. United have a ton of average players (literally loads), Pogba is brilliant in my opinion.
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Don't get me wrong, Pogba has amazing abilities. I just don't think he's a great fit for a possession based team because it would go completely against his DNA.

I also intentionally differentiated between height/agility and technical ability. I don't think Thiago and Isco are better technically than Pogba because they are smaller and have a lower center of gravity (that is something that helps them under pressure, though), I think they can do things with a football Pogba can't do on top of having a more consistent technique as in misplacing fewer passes, screwing up fewer touches, having the ball consistently glued to their feet etc. For the same reason I thought from the very beginning that Dembele and Barca are a really odd fit since Dembele is simply too inconsistent in his passing, first touch and close control. Ideally, a system supports the strengthes of the key players and covers their weaknesses, but in case of Pogba and Pep's brand of football it would be the other way round. Pogba would've been very restricted in doing he does best while he'd have to do what he's not particularly good at most of the time (controlling the game, let the ball circulate, etc.).

However, that doesn't change that he's an exceptional player in the right system. I exemplarily couldn't imagine a better midfielder for a typical Klopp or Simeone team.
 
Zehner said:
Don't get me wrong, Pogba has amazing abilities. I just don't think he's a great fit for a possession based team because it would go completely against his DNA.

I also intentionally differentiated between height/agility and technical ability. I don't think Thiago and Isco are better technically than Pogba because they are smaller and have a lower center of gravity (that is something that helps them under pressure, though), I think they can do things with a football Pogba can't do on top of having a more consistent technique as in misplacing fewer passes, screwing up fewer touches, having the ball consistently glued to their feet etc. For the same reason I thought from the very beginning that Dembele and Barca are a really odd fit since Dembele is simply too inconsistent in his passing, first touch and close control. Ideally, a system supports the strengthes of the key players and covers their weaknesses, but in case of Pogba and Pep's brand of football it would be the other way round. Pogba would've been very restricted in doing he does best while he'd have to do what he's not particularly good at most of the time (controlling the game, let the ball circulate, etc.).
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You should have watched tonight's game. Best player on the pitch and a one-man midfield, who played within himself, was involved with every part of our game AND he wasn't even that great.

He may not do certains things as better as other players but if you're a top coach with a good team, Pogba would be playing ahead of those two you mentioned any day of the week.
 
Halal Jalal said:
Absolutely ridiculous to suggest that De Bruyne is better than PP, and on Caf, a Manchester United forum of all places! Sometimes it feels like Paul is the most underrated player in the world, and much of the disrespect is coming from United supporters. Absolutely ridiculous.

There are 2 (two) attributes which make KDB the world class player he is - stamina, and crossing. I have no problem admitting that he's superior to PP in these two aspects (to be honest the stamina of most City players is suspicious to say the least). Every other activity on the pitch though, PP comfortably beats KDB. He's stronger, faster, jump higher/better heading, better control and dribbling, vertical long passing, tricks, shooting, defensive contribution... He's the complete player, if you had to assemble a functioning football XI by cloning single player, you'd be stupid to pick anyone but Paul Pogba.

In my opinion, 5 best midfielders in the world play in PL - Pogba, Kante, De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva and David Silva. We're blessed to have the best one of the lot, so some United fans should open their eyes and start appreciating him.
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This isn't a fair way to look at things. By this standard, James Milner is a better midfielder than a prime Paul Scholes.

I think the question is would you rather have De Bruyne, a generic #8 and a generic #6 or Pogba, a generic #8/10 and a generic #6.

So considering those players are only going to play for big clubs, would you rather have, let's say:

-----De Bruyne------
Winaljdum-Xhaka---

or

Pogba---Winaldjum
------Xhaka--------

as your midfield. Kinda feels like the answer is De Bruyne in the league and Pogba in the CL. I'd probably go Pogba for durability if I was picking for a season but I'd go with De Bruyne for a single game or tie.

Might matter who your forwards are too. Martial for instance wouldn't really benefit from De Bruyne's brilliant low crossing, but someone like Aubameyang or a prime Chicharito would feast on it.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Not as good as Lampard or Gerrard yet, recency bias here, those two I'd everything De Bruyne has for a longer time.
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Easily better player than both. Not even close imo. Specially Lampard aint fit to lace his boots
 
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Zehner said:
Don't get me wrong, Pogba has amazing abilities. I just don't think he's a great fit for a possession based team because it would go completely against his DNA.

I also intentionally differentiated between height/agility and technical ability. I don't think Thiago and Isco are better technically than Pogba because they are smaller and have a lower center of gravity (that is something that helps them under pressure, though), I think they can do things with a football Pogba can't do on top of having a more consistent technique as in misplacing fewer passes, screwing up fewer touches, having the ball consistently glued to their feet etc. For the same reason I thought from the very beginning that Dembele and Barca are a really odd fit since Dembele is simply too inconsistent in his passing, first touch and close control. Ideally, a system supports the strengthes of the key players and covers their weaknesses, but in case of Pogba and Pep's brand of football it would be the other way round. Pogba would've been very restricted in doing he does best while he'd have to do what he's not particularly good at most of the time (controlling the game, let the ball circulate, etc.).

However, that doesn't change that he's an exceptional player in the right system. I exemplarily couldn't imagine a better midfielder for a typical Klopp or Simeone team.
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Pogba would get into that city side any day of the week. He's comfortable playing in a double pivot, as a no 6 / 8 in a midfield three and further up as a number 10. Pogba would be more versatile to pep's system than Silva, De Bryune and Gundogan. Cannot really fault paul for the fact that since he's been at United we have had very underwhelming coaches including Solskjaer when it comes to the art of keeping possession. The only nuisance with Pogba is that he needs a disciplined midfielder either behind or alongside to cover his defensive frailties, he switches off out of possession and that's most likely the biggest gripe he would have in a Guardiola team.
 
passing-wind said:
Pogba would get into that city side any day of the week. He's comfortable playing in a double pivot, as a no 6 / 8 in a midfield three and further up as a number 10. Pogba would be more versatile to pep's system than Silva, De Bryune and Gundogan. Cannot really fault paul for the fact that since he's been at United we have had very underwhelming coaches including Solskjaer when it comes to the art of keeping possession. The only nuisance with Pogba is that he needs a disciplined midfielder either behind or alongside to cover his defensive frailties, he switches off out of possession and that's most likely the biggest gripe he would have in a Guardiola team.
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Wrong. There is no way Pogba would be more versatile than De Bruyne. De Bruyne can play as a 6 next to the holder, as an attacking 8, as a right forward and also as z left forward. Thats 4 positions. What 4 positions can Pogba play?
 
De Bruyne is a wonderful player. A world class player as in one of the top 10. In my opinion if he played for us in the no 8 position with Pogba at no 6 we would be challenging for the league. He has the energy and desire coupled with a technically brilliant skillset to turn results in a team's favour.
 
Tostao_80 said:
Wrong. There is no way Pogba would be more versatile than De Bruyne. De Bruyne can play as a 6 next to the holder, as an attacking 8, as a right forward and also as z left forward. Thats 4 positions. What 4 positions can Pogba play?
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I disagree Pogba can and has played in left midfield (wide) no 6 / 8 and as a 10. The key is versatility in the midfield. Pep will always use forwards who exceed at running with the ball in tight spaces something that Sterling and Bernardo / Sane do well.
 
adexkola said:
Sterling, KDB... Is there anyone who doesn't benefit from this magical system?



No way. Apart from the assists of course.

This may be partly due to the roles of both players in their teams, but I don't recall KDB dawdling on the ball too much or being dispossessed in dangerous situations, like Pogba was prior to his assists.
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City, like Liverpool are about the sum of their parts. We, are not. Ole is working on it but still a long way off how well drilled these 2 sides are.

Sorry but I think you should look at their performance data from each respective match.

I've had this argument for the last year re possession / dispossessed and KDB's numbers in these respective games were every bit as bad as Pogba's. Only one of them gets criticized over it however, can you guess which one? ;)

As you can see from the heat map, Pogba sat a lot deeper than KDB who was almost a 2nd winger in comparison.

Both registered 2 assists.
Pogba has more touches (involved more)
KDB was more accurate with passing
KDB had more key passes (not surprising being so far forward)
Ground duels are almost identical, 1 in favor of KDB
Possession lost is 24 to 28 in favor of KDB

It's not exactly apples and oranges.




 
Keefy18 said:
It's not exactly apples and oranges.
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It is a bit. 9 key passes is a exceptional total in one game when you consider that Maddison had the highest average total over last season with 2.8 per game. KDB already has 5 'big chances' created on the the Premier League website which is 1/6 of the highest total last year already.

KDB is on fire at the moment whereas Pogba is doing OK - good. Hopefully this changes soon.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It is a bit. 9 key passes is a exceptional total in one game when you consider that Maddison had the highest average total over last season with 2.8 per game. KDB already has 5 'big chances' created on the the Premier League website which is 1/6 of the highest total last year already.

KDB is on fire at the moment whereas Pogba is doing OK - good. Hopefully this changes soon.
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Look at the heat map, KDB played so high up the pitch.

His job was to be their main creator, color me shocked when that rings true.

If / When we can get another CM to allow Pogba the same freedom KDB is afforded we'll see an improvement there too, which was the case the season before last when much of Pogba's performance data was actually better than KDB's at the time, but folks were raving about KDB's performance data and slating Pogba again.
 
Keefy18 said:
Look at the heat map, KDB played so high up the pitch.

His job was to be their main creator, color me shocked when that rings true.

If / When we can get another CM to allow Pogba the same freedom KDB is afforded we'll see an improvement there too, which was the case the season before last when much of Pogba's performance data was actually better than KDB's at the time, but folks were raving about KDB's performance data and slating Pogba again.
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Doesn't matter where he was playing, 9 key passes for any player in one game is exceptional and rare, especially when so many were clear chances.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Doesn't matter where he was playing, 9 key passes for any player in one game is exceptional and rare, especially when so many were clear chances.
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Of course it matters haha

Would you expect a CB to be creating 9 key chances?

Look where Pogba's main position was vs Chelsea, yet he still registered 2 assists and 4 key passes.

I just checked out of curiosity, but AWB played slightly further up the pitch on average than Pogba vs Chelsea.

Pogba was essentially somewhere between right full and right centre half.
 
Where do you find the big chance created stat on the PL website?
 
Good to see more and more people comparing Pogba to De Bruyne, I was always a little uncomfortable with the comparison between Yaya and Pogba (for obvious reasons). They're totally different types of players with totally different skill sets. To put it another way, Yaya was the kind of man you built your team around. Pogba, on the other hand, is the kind of midfielder you build your team for. Yaya had this brilliant ability to take a backseat during games while subtly controlling the entire thing - he was mostly the man who started moves from behind the midfield. Pogba's more of a headline maker, a game-breaker, the player who finishes those moves off, which is much more the type of player De Bruyne is. I think De Bruyne's much more productive and far more dangerous - if he picks the ball up 30-40 yards from goal you can guarantee something's going to happen in a way I'm not sure you can with Pogba.

But Pogba's now at the age where De Bruyne really stepped up a level, so we'll see where he goes from here. Kevin was excellent in his first season under Pellegrini as a #10, but Guardiola moved him into a #8 position and it took a while for him to adjust. His performances during the second half of the 16/17 season were pretty mixed, in all honesty. He was having trouble adjusting to the new position, he'd just had a son, he wasn't right really. He finished that season well, though, and came back at the start of 17/18 a new man and essentially won the league on his own before December. I'm not saying Pogba's got that level of ability but the team surrounding him isn't as good as City's was in the Centurions season, so it'd be unfair to expect as much from him. But Pogba's definitely capable of a 20-goal/15-assist season if he puts his mind to it and if Ole builds the team for him.

What would have helped, only in my view of course, would have been acquiring a defensive midfielder or just keeping Herrera; someone to do the legwork while Pogba concentrates on the numbers. Failing to do either of those things might cost you a genuinely unforgettable season from him in the end, and considering the two games you've had so far this season have seen Pogba as part of a two-man midfield rather than a #10 (which is where his best form came from last season), it's a worrying trend really. But we live in hope.
 
Keefy18 said:
Of course it matters haha

Would you expect a CB to be creating 9 key chances?

Look where Pogba's main position was vs Chelsea, yet he still registered 2 assists and 4 key passes.

I just checked out of curiosity, but AWB played slightly further up the pitch on average than Pogba vs Chelsea.

Pogba was essentially somewhere between right full and right centre half.
Click to expand...

You're comparing a game where KDB did something exceptional with a game where Pogba was all over the place, for all the good things he did he did just as many terrible things, he lost the ball through bad touches and dispossessions 9 times, add that to his misplaced passes and he turned the ball over 24 times to Chelsea! He was playing in the position of greatest responsibility when it comes to looking after the ball too.
 
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