Kevin De Bruyne

Suedesi said:
It's an entire proposition altogether. We're discussing top player legacies, scouts are interested in finding young, unheard of talent for a reasonable price
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It's a fair point on legacy. KDB's biggest problem has been City's poor showing the CL though. Belgium have actually done well if people are realistic. They were third at the last World Cup and the last eight of the Euros is still a good achievement for a side in decline. Don't forget that the Euros is a very strong competition, 7 out of the top 10 FIFA ranked teams are in the competition so its basically stacked and a different order of magnitude compared to the Copa America.

Compare him to Ozil, would you say that KDB's legacy is greater than Ozil the World Cup winner and European Champion?

For me KDB will always be regarded as the greater player than Ozil but perhaps some other people think differently.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Best midfielder in the world for me by far. Clearly wasn't totally fit yesterday but Belgium and KDB himself obviously thought it was worth the risk in a knockout scenario. I thought he looked awesome too first half however he did fade badly in the second.

He'd walk into any team in the world and if you don't think this then footy isn't for you. He has everything in his game.
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He is brilliant. The power on his foot is his greatest asset IMO. Many players have good vision but he can play power passes standing still with great precision. It’s incredible to watch.

My only criticism, which is not based on a lot of matches I admit, is that he is only good when he decided to be switched on. He doesn’t seem to have that dogged focus of players like Iniesta who when he is on the pitch is always looking for way to do maximum damage to the opponent.
 
Suedesi said:
It's an entire proposition altogether. We're discussing top player legacies, scouts are interested in finding young, unheard of talent for a reasonable price
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i wasnt discussing anyones legacy. Simple disagree that he isnt one of the best players around simply because his team hasnt won a major International tournament especially when the manager isnt very good

Teams winning doesnt correlate with a specific individuals talent. Messi also hasnt won anything with Argentina
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It's a fair point on legacy. KDB's biggest problem has been City's poor showing the CL though. Belgium have actually done well if people are realistic. They were third at the last World Cup and the last eight of the Euros is still a good achievement for a side in decline. Don't forget that the Euros is a very strong competition, 7 out of the top 10 FIFA ranked teams are in the competition so its basically stacked and a different order of magnitude compared to the Copa America.

Compare him to Ozil, would you say that KDB's legacy is greater than Ozil the World Cup winner and European Champion?

For me KDB will always be regarded as the greater player than Ozil but perhaps some other people think differently.
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It's an interesting question - I think Ozil was top class for a good couple of years, but faded badly due to laziness and playing for Arsenal didn't really help. Winning the WC in Brazil was a magnificent achievement, so he'll always have that.

KDB is a great player but there's always a but with him. Injuries, luck, choices whatever it is seem to conspire against him winning anything internationally. He plays for a team that is the bookies' perennial favorites to win the CL, for the best coach (TM), with a team with no budget constraints. Just one finals appearance is too little, considering teams like Chelsea and Liverpool have actually won it. Not to mention Madrid, Bayern, Barca have won it multiple times during Kev's career.

And yes, Belgium should have won something, anything. Portugal did win a Euro cup and Nation's League, and on paper they're ranked worse (although I disagree with the rankings vehemently).

As I said great player but...
 
laughtersassassin said:
Not really. Its just a point of comparison, not a rant even if your read it like one.

Pogba was fantastic for France the game they got knocked out. Gave the ball away but created everything and won the ball back for their second goal too if we are arguing semantics.

Yet he was blamed instantly by most pundits and was the major discussion point.

Meanwhile KDB was very poor tonight. Created one or two nice chances but otherwise very poor. 57% pass completion and lost the ball 25 times.

Yet the pundits weren't instantly blaming him for the loss.

Interesting is all.

For me neither are to blame for their Country's exit although Pogba did far more to keep his country in the competition than KDB.

France got knocked out more cause of Pavard and Mbappe if they where to blame individuals.
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The media just loves KDB. A Pogba isn't liked at all. Its similar to how the media looks at LM10 and CR7. The first is taken as a 'down to earth' the second as " proud and full of himself'.....
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Best midfielder in the world for me by far. Clearly wasn't totally fit yesterday but Belgium and KDB himself obviously thought it was worth the risk in a knockout scenario. I thought he looked awesome too first half however he did fade badly in the second.

He'd walk into any team in the world and if you don't think this then footy isn't for you. He has everything in his game.
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Ibn Battuta said:
He is brilliant. The power on his foot is his greatest asset IMO. Many players have good vision but he can play power passes standing still with great precision. It’s incredible to watch.

My only criticism, which is not based on a lot of matches I admit, is that he is only good when he decided to be switched on. He doesn’t seem to have that dogged focus of players like Iniesta who when he is on the pitch is always looking for way to do maximum damage to the opponent.
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Suedesi said:
It's an interesting question - I think Ozil was top class for a good couple of years, but faded badly due to laziness and playing for Arsenal didn't really help. Winning the WC in Brazil was a magnificent achievement, so he'll always have that.

KDB is a great player but there's always a but with him. Injuries, luck, choices whatever it is seem to conspire against him winning anything internationally. He plays for a team that is the bookies' perennial favorites to win the CL, for the best coach (TM), with a team with no budget constraints. Just one finals appearance is too little, considering teams like Chelsea and Liverpool have actually won it. Not to mention Madrid, Bayern, Barca have won it multiple times during Kev's career.

And yes, Belgium should have won something, anything. Portugal did win a Euro cup and Nation's League, and on paper they're ranked worse (although I disagree with the rankings vehemently).

As I said great player but...
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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I consistently fail to see why people believe he is the best in his position on the planet. Great player though
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he's great as an impact/moments player. Best midfielder in the world by far is just hype. He looks world class via highlights
 
Stacks said:
I feel Messi would play better than De Bruyne in midfield.
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I don’t disagree with your assertion, but I’m not sure how great your original point of not being the best midfielder in the world is that when you’re questioned on it, your answer is to name a player who isn’t a midfielder
 
Wonderful player. I'm jealous he plays for City. Not sure if he can play with Bruno in the same team but boy, what would i give to see that
 
Enigma_87 said:
Modric? What's the timeframe? This year alone or last 5?
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Modric is probably the only one I can think of who has been close to him over last 5 years. He has been a great little player. One of my favourites actually.

However I still don't think he's quite as good as KDB.
 
Cascarino said:
I don’t disagree with your assertion, but I’m not sure how great your original point of not being the best midfielder in the world is that when you’re questioned on it, your answer is to name a player who isn’t a midfielder
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I never said he isn't. I said he isn't "by far" the best in the world
 
Stacks said:
I never said he isn't. I said he isn't "by far" the best in the world
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That’s fair enough, I’d still disagree with

Stacks said:
he's great as an impact/moments player. Best midfielder in the world by far is just hype. He looks world class via highlights
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that as an assessment though. World class is a fairly intangible label and everyone will have their own criteria as to what constitutes being world class, but if KDB isn’t world class with the consistency he’s shown over the past 5 years, virtually no players are. Being the best in your position over a period of time should basically cement being world class

I also disagree with the notion that he looks better via highlights, as watching him week in week out you get a greater appreciation for his decision making, and how consistently he can create chances over a full game.
 
Suedesi said:
It's an interesting question - I think Ozil was top class for a good couple of years, but faded badly due to laziness and playing for Arsenal didn't really help. Winning the WC in Brazil was a magnificent achievement, so he'll always have that.

KDB is a great player but there's always a but with him. Injuries, luck, choices whatever it is seem to conspire against him winning anything internationally. He plays for a team that is the bookies' perennial favorites to win the CL, for the best coach (TM), with a team with no budget constraints. Just one finals appearance is too little, considering teams like Chelsea and Liverpool have actually won it. Not to mention Madrid, Bayern, Barca have won it multiple times during Kev's career.

And yes, Belgium should have won something, anything. Portugal did win a Euro cup and Nation's League, and on paper they're ranked worse (although I disagree with the rankings vehemently).

As I said great player but...
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This is the problem. You need to compare how Ozil was considered at Madrid for it to be a fair comparison. The Ozil at Arsenal has diminished his legacy (like Rooney staying too long with us has a bit). Ozil was an outstanding player.

KdB at City v Ozil at Madrid are equal I would say.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Modric is probably the only one I can think of who has been close to him over last 5 years. He has been a great little player. One of my favourites actually.

However I still don't think he's quite as good as KDB.
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KDB is currently the best in the world, but still would take Modric in the last 5 years and definitely Modric at his peak.

The other one that might be in contention, albeit a lot different player is Kante, who on his day is worth 2 midfielders.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
This says a lot to me. Can you imagine what Kevin De Bruyne would do with a 25 year old Cristiano Ronaldo ahead of him?
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Özil's final third passing consistently outperformed everyone else's during his peak. He was averaging 4 key passes per game where the second best was around 2.5 to 3. He even beat Messi in that time and was the only one who was able to keep up with his assist stats. So I don't think he'd look even better than Özil behind Cristiano. But then again, Özil was a specialist (elite passer, great dribbler) while de Bruyne is a generalist (long shots, passing, crossing, strength, defending, etc) and a much better and more professional leader than him.
 
Zehner said:
But then again, Özil was a specialist (elite passer, great dribbler) while de Bruyne is a generalist (long shots, passing, crossing, strength, defending, etc) and a much better and more professional leader than him.
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You say he’s a generalist but usually that means the person is no more than 6/10 in the categories they’re competent at. KDB is an 8-9/10 in all those areas you listed. He’s just a very complete midfielder. I’d take his prime over Ozil no doubt (who can only work in a specific system/position).
 
MrEleson said:
You say he’s a generalist but usually that means the person is no more than 6/10 in the categories they’re competent at. KDB is an 8-9/10 in all those areas you listed. He’s just a very complete midfielder. I’d take his prime over Ozil no doubt (who can only work in a specific system/position).
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Yes, I agree with that. Özil is somebody who has to be used in a very specific way and if he does, he's excellent. Unfortunately he never transitioned to the modern kind of football and never really worked on his weaknesses. Özil is probably a 10/10 in passing, a 8/10 in dribbling while de Bruyne is a 9/10 and a 7/10 in dribbling and comfortably beats Özil in every other regard. So you would need to deploy Özil in a role that makes incredibly much out of these strengthes for him to be better than de Bruyne.

But I still think Özil's prime is somewhat underrated because of him dropping several levels later on. He was unplayable for a considerably long time.
 
Zehner said:
Yes, I agree with that. Özil is somebody who has to be used in a very specific way and if he does, he's excellent. Unfortunately he never transitioned to the modern kind of football and never really worked on his weaknesses. Özil is probably a 10/10 in passing, a 8/10 in dribbling while de Bruyne is a 9/10 and a 7/10 in dribbling and comfortably beats Özil in every other regard. So you would need to deploy Özil in a role that makes incredibly much out of these strengthes for him to be better than de Bruyne.

But I still think Özil's prime is somewhat underrated because of him dropping several levels later on. He was unplayable for a considerably long time.
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True, but Kevin did it for Bremen and Wolfsburg as well. And is brilliant now. That is very hard to overestimate.
 
UweBein said:
True, but Kevin did it for Bremen and Wolfsburg as well. And is brilliant now. That is very hard to overestimate.
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Ozil was brilliant for Bremen as well, won the DFB Pokal like KdB, not to forget that. He had an amazing couple of seasons before he left for Madrid.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Not sure why Pep rested him today. man is he ever good. Just imagine how good he'd be if he wasn't fat
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He was rushed back to fitness by Belgium at the WC where I think he got injured in again iirc

He’s just constantly been injured since about 2018. Can’t remember the last time he’s had a complete season fully fit
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Not sure why Pep rested him today. man is he ever good. Just imagine how good he'd be if he wasn't fat
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Injured wasn't even supposed to be in the squad for today. You could see at the end when he lost possession he wasn't even able to run back.
 
Brilliant player, the best creative midfielder in the league, but it's a huge gamble rushing him back. His game depends on movement and running, so these injuries could easily cut his career short though.
 
By far the worst player on the pitch, looks half drunk.

Worst I've seen him play.
 
Yeah, he can pull incredible passes out of nothing but he's goes missing for long periods of a season. Foden and Silva have made him look daft today.
 
He has games like this regularly just like other high risk playmakers, but somehow it sticks to others in a way it never sticks to him. There’s always an excuse that’s readily accepted for him that would be considered ridiculous for others.
 
Woeful attempt with the header, and doesn't look on it at all today.
 
Brwned said:
He has games like this regularly just like other high risk playmakers, but somehow it sticks to others in a way it never sticks to him. There’s always an excuse that’s readily accepted for him that would be considered ridiculous for others.
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I guess because his team wins so much even when he's having an off-day, it never warrants enough attention
 
He hasn't been playing well for a while now.

edit: he started to play much better after Grealish was subbed.
 
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Pat_Mustard said:
Brilliant finish for his goal but poor aside from that. He looked ready to keel over with fatigue when he messed up that attack at the end. Seems to be struggling for fitness.
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It took a huge deflection, and he wasn't particularly great last season either.
 
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