Keir Starmer Labour Leader

Dobba said:
Why? For holding people to the same viewpoints they've been spewing for the last 5 years?
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Like how people should get behind the leader of the party when they have a huge mandate with the membership?
 
It's basically a mainstream Labour party shadow cabinet, to the left of Miliband's, to the right of Corbyn's. It'll likely be in favour of more state intervention, raising of benefits (potentially including UBI), greatly increased spending on health and social care, greatly increased action on climate change, less foreign intervention.
 
Ubik said:
It's basically a mainstream Labour party shadow cabinet, to the left of Miliband's, to the right of Corbyn's. It'll likely be in favour of more state intervention, raising of benefits (potentially including UBI), greatly increased spending on health and social care, greatly increased action on climate change, less foreign intervention.
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Do you want to buy a bridge?
 
Dobba said:
I've already said, I'll give the same benefit of the doubt to Starmer as leader he did to Corbyn. i.e. Only after he wins a leadership challenge a year into his tenure.
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Oh, I'm sorry you're right. It's just confusing because you're not letting all the things you said before in defence of Corbyn and in criticism of centrists stop you from being factional and pilling into Starmer from day zero so it's hard to keep up with which of your previously held positions you've decided to stick to.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Oh, I'm sorry you're right. It's just confusing because you're not letting all the things you said before in defence of Corbyn and in criticism of centrists stop you from being factional and pilling into Starmer from day zero so it's hard to keep up with which of your previously held positions you've decided to stick to.
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Unless there's an essay about the hypocrisy of Starmer for demanding respect of the mandate when it took until he realised he couldn't get rid of Corbyn before he bothered coming up, I love that I'm being held to a higher standard of ethics than the guy now leading the party.

Hell, unless I dreamt it, for the last few years the response to anybody's request to respect the mandate was saying 'Why should we? Corbyn didn't under Blair'. Now that's disappeared too.
 
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Dobba said:
Unless there's an essay about the hypocrisy of Starmer for demanding respect of the mandate when it took until he realised he couldn't get rid of Corbyn before he bothered coming up, I love that I'm being held to a higher standard of ethics than the guy now leading the party.
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I'm merely interested in why you no longer feel the way you do about issues you've spent an awful lot of time posting about in recent years and feel they no longer apply when we have a new labour leader.

To me it suggests you never really believed the arguments you were making yourself, but perhaps the change of Labour leadership is a coincidence and you've had an unrelated road to Damascus moment.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I'm merely interested in why you no longer feel the way you do about issues you've spent an awful lot of time posting about in recent years and feel they no longer apply when we have a new labour leader.

To me it suggests you never really believed the arguments you were making yourself, but perhaps the change of Labour leadership is a coincidence and you've had an unrelated road to Damascus moment.
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The people who told 'mandate respecters' where they can stick it, using the response I mentioned before, for five years have got their wish - hell, some of them are now in Shadow Cabinet positions. Why on earth would anyone continue down a path that has proven to not only get you nowhere, but see the people on the polar opposite take over the party again?

Starmer won big, so I'm going to follow his once in a lifetime promotion winning example. Respect the mandate, but only after a year in which you've publicly shunned said leader and actively got behind the leader of the 'feck your mandate' alliance and gotten beat. If I'm still not respecting the mandate after he wins a leadership challenge against someone that I'm fully behind, you've got me bang to rights.
 
Untied said:
Someone posted a Dunt tweet (God knows why) and he had another comment that sums this up, celebrating this shadow cabinet as a return to normality.

It’s the same psychosis that is leading the Democrats to choose a candidate who’s brain is literally sloshing around inside his head. There can be no return to normality given the zombie economy we have lived in since 2008, the oncoming climate crisis, and the current coronavirus crisis.
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Starmer win is similar to the incoming Biden win in that they are both pure reactionary politics(Not terms of right wing politics before anyone starts losing their minds!), it's the membership collectively shitting their pants because they've done a massive feck up and are now looking for the ''safest option''.

Which makes sense, the labour membership is basically full of oldish well meaningful middle class ''socialists' who just want everyone to be nice to each other(Corbyn was at times this as well) but what do middle class people do when they've fecked up badly, they call someone who looks and sounds like Keir Starmer. You literally get the best white guy lawyer in a suit with the hopes he'll fixes the problem(Polling of Labour members showed most members trusted Starmer on the economic even though RLB had been Mcdonell understudy and was the Shadow Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy under Corbyn. Which shows the power of a well fitted suit)

But the reason why this is a useless form of politics(And thats saying something coming from a Corbyn supporter/commie)is because of the point you made about returning to normality being impossible due to the the material conditions and the incoming threat of climate change. In fact what we've seen over the last few years is the outcome of the normality so many people are desperate to get back to. Which is why everything about Starmer so far(Leadership campaign and now cabinet picks)has just been a bit meh. Not so much rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic but more peacefully listening to the violinists play as the cold sea water drags you under.

5 years of the soft left telling everyone the labour leadership was shit and then finally when they get their chance, the best they've got is brining back Ed Miliband. I was expecting a bit more tbh.
 
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Sweet Square said:
5 years of the soft left telling everyone the labour leadership was shit and then finally when they get their chance, the best they've got is brining back Ed Miliband. I was expecting a bit more tbh.
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They tried the best your lot had. Nobody is going to be doing that again soon.
 
Just wondering for the Cafe Corbynites, given the lack of enthusiasm for the new order, what if anything would put you off embracing Galloway or Williamson’s new ‘movements’?
 
He is going to pull the labour to the centre. I don't think he is going to win an election unless the Tories really feck everything. He is no orator like Tony Blair and neither has he the common touch of Corbyn.
 
Dobba said:
The people who told 'mandate respecters' where they can stick it, using the response I mentioned before, for five years have got their wish - hell, some of them are now in Shadow Cabinet positions. Why on earth would anyone continue down a path that has proven to not only get you nowhere, but see the people on the polar opposite take over the party again?

Starmer won big, so I'm going to follow his once in a lifetime promotion winning example. Respect the mandate, but only after a year in which you've publicly shunned said leader and actively got behind the leader of the 'feck your mandate' alliance and gotten beat. If I'm still not respecting the mandate after he wins a leadership challenge against someone that I'm fully behind, you've got me bang to rights.
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You know, I get it. I found the factional infighting frustrating too, back in the early days when I was supportive of Corbyn I posted about purges and tightening his grip on the party and all manner of things because it fecked me off that people would rather do blue and blue infighting than pull in the same direction.

But it's why I can't support those same people that have moaned about factional infighting for 5 fecking years instantaneously flipping a switch and disregarding every single position they've ever held on the matter to immediately begin and do some factional infighting.

And I appreciate that would come across as sanctimonious had a Blairite won, but I've seen little in the campaign Starmer ran suggests that we're going to see a complete abandonment of all left wing ideals. You're entitled not to trust that and to remain sceptical, but it feels to me like as good a compromise position as we're going to get (not to mention I do not seriously think people had much faith in Long Bailey as a leader even if they liked her policies). Surely it's better to treat it as that and move forward with the common goal of booting out the fecking Tories than to try and characterise Starmer as the worst choice (including some very tenuous assertions wrt his politics) because you're a bit upset that you got subsumed in Corbyn's cult of (no) personality and he's gone?

Ultimately you may be right and Starmer may be a disaster, who knows, but I don't see what the upside is in trying to make that a self fulfilling prophecy.
 
Ninja, his choice of the shadow cabinet is what I feel that he is going to go completely right. No need to appoint Lisa Nandy as the Foreign Secretary if he doesn't want to move right. Didn't he appoint Lord Falconer as the AG who was the room mate of Blair and Blair made him a lord?
 
Foxbatt said:
He is going to pull the labour to the centre. I don't think he is going to win an election unless the Tories really feck everything. He is no orator like Tony Blair and neither has he the common touch of Corbyn.
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I'm sorry, what?
 
Starmer has made some odd choices. He had labour first running his cmapaign, specifically a bloke that openally called for purges of the left of the party.

Now he has chosen this guy as an adviser. Goingunderground are hit and miss with their output, but this appears well researched.

 
Foxbatt said:
Jezza for all his incompetency has the common touch. He is a simple chap is down to earth.
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Yes, the public famously lauded Corbyn's everyman appeal even as he plummeted to record levels of unpopularity. "He's just like us, except much worse" they cried, as his Labour party were repeatedly accused of being out of touch.
 
sullydnl said:
Yes, the public famously lauded Corbyn's everyman appeal even as he plummeted to record levels of unpopularity. "He's just like us, except much worse" they cried, as his Labour party were repeatedly accused of being out of touch.
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Bets on next leader of a political party to have their name chanted at football games, music gigs etc.?
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Starmer has made some odd choices. He had labour first running his cmapaign, specifically a bloke that openally called for purges of the left of the party.

Now he has chosen this guy as an adviser. Goingunderground are hit and miss with their output, but this appears well researched.

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Not just an adviser, he's director of communications. Absolute genius appointing a private health lobbyist to the job your biggest supporters have spent the last few years adamantly telling everyone is the true party leadership position. Especially at a time where millions of people are watching daily updates where a member of the Tories is stood with 'Protect the NHS' immediately beneath them on the podium.
 
What do people think of Starmer's cabinet having the anti-semite Rachel Reeves in it? She went at length to praise Nancy Astor on Twitter and whitewashed her anti-semitism and has been rewarded with a cabinet position, doesn't seem like zero tolerance on anti-semitism to me.
 
sullydnl said:
Yes, the public famously lauded Corbyn's everyman appeal even as he plummeted to record levels of unpopularity. "He's just like us, except much worse" they cried, as his Labour party were repeatedly accused of being out of touch.
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Corbyn was never unpopular as a person. Most people thought he was incompetent and he was not good enough as a politician. Nothing to do with him as a person.
 
Shamwow said:
What do people think of Starmer's cabinet having the anti-semite Rachel Reeves in it? She went at length to praise Nancy Astor on Twitter and whitewashed her anti-semitism and has been rewarded with a cabinet position, doesn't seem like zero tolerance on anti-semitism to me.
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I can feel the sincerity radiating from your words.

I wonder what the group most concerned about anti semitism in Labour think about how Starmer's begun?

"Sir Keir Starmer has “achieved more in four days” than Jeremy Corbyn did “in four years” on tackling anti-Semitism, Jewish community leaders have said."
 
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nickm said:
I can feel the sincerity radiating from your words.

I wonder what the group most concerned about anti semitism in Labour think about how Starmer's begun?

"Sir Keir Starmer has “achieved more in four days” than Jeremy Corbyn did “in four years” on tackling anti-Semitism, Jewish community leaders have said."
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They would say that wouldn't they? If Corbyn became the PM he most probably would have recognized Palestine as a state and criticise Israel for the continuous land grabbing by Israel.
 
Foxbatt said:
They would say that wouldn't they? If Corbyn became the PM he most probably would have recognized Palestine as a state and criticise Israel for the continuous land grabbing by Israel.
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Or maybe, just maybe, they actually mean what they say.
Shamwow said:
What do people think of Starmer's cabinet having the anti-semite Rachel Reeves in it? She went at length to praise Nancy Astor on Twitter and whitewashed her anti-semitism and has been rewarded with a cabinet position, doesn't seem like zero tolerance on anti-semitism to me.
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Hard to believe you actually care about these things.
 
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