Keir Starmer Labour Leader

Kier's best contribution to Labor's next election would be to get fined for eating and then resigns :lol:

Not that I want Corbyn back, I can't believe the left and centre of the party have put up back to back shit candidates. Get some talent FFS.
 
WPMUFC said:
Kier's best contribution to Labor's next election would be to get fined for eating and then resigns :lol:

Not that I want Corbyn back, I can't believe the left and centre of the party have put up back to back shit candidates. Get some talent FFS.
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Difficult when you only have 200 MPs, with a good number being in their 20s or 70s or criminals or Richard Burgon. Hopefully the intake at the next election will improve things.
 
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Scrapping tuition fees in and of itself may be popular, but it does amount to benefit tailored to children of the middle and upper classes.

The problem HE has is that by the time students enter into university, it is too late for so many. Less than 1 in 100 care leavers make it to university, and those from lower income families are under-represented.

Tuition fees are charged a commercial interest rate, which is nonsense - they should right now be charged the rate of interest the UK Government pays, which is very low. I'd be interested in seeing whether a graduate tax could be more progressive too.

And UK universities also appear to be structurally racist.- there is a nationwide 10% race attainment gap, even when white and non-white students have the same A-Level grades.

I suppose I am saying that not scrapping tuition fees but coming up with innovative and progressive policies to improve education and make the education system fairer could be something I could support.

What we will likely get is the scrapping of tuition fees and a pledge to be nicer or something.

Anyway, I do think he will be out of a job once Durham Police get their act together.
 
Frosty said:
Scrapping tuition fees in and of itself may be popular, but it does amount to benefit tailored to children of the middle and upper classes.

The problem HE has is that by the time students enter into university, it is too late for so many. Less than 1 in 100 care leavers make it to university, and those from lower income families are under-represented.
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Whilst this is undoubtedly true, it'd be interesting to see what's happened since tuition fees came in, or in Scotland, where they don't exist. I'd argue that whilst, in isolation, such a policy can't redress the whole problem, no tuition fees must help those without the means. Certainly, I doubt I'd have got to Uni had they existed.
 
Sweet Square said:
Really ?

Can only see him going if the police report comes back against him.
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I am fortunate to know a couple of people 'inside the firm' so to speak, on the right of the party, so please forgive the ITK information. But the NEC are already prepping for a leadership election and to put in place an interim to fight a snap election this Autumn. Plus the feeling is that Durham police will issue a fine, and at least three MPs (centre/right) are canvassing for potential votes.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
Whilst this is undoubtedly true, it'd be interesting to see what's happened since tuition fees came in, or in Scotland, where they don't exist. I'd argue that whilst, in isolation, such a policy can't redress the whole problem, no tuition fees must help those without the means. Certainly, I doubt I'd have got to Uni had they existed.
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Good points. Absolutely help should be provided for those who need it. I have always favoured a graduate tax. Scotland is interesting - not least because if/when they become independent they will lose the block grant from the UK government and have quite a lot of fiscal issues (falling population, falling oil and gas receipts) so I am not sure if subsidised tuition can last.
 
Frosty said:
I am fortunate to know a couple of people 'inside the firm' so to speak, on the right of the party, so please forgive the ITK information. But the NEC are already prepping for a leadership election and to put in place an interim to fight a snap election this Autumn. Plus the feeling is that Durham police will issue a fine, and at least three MPs (centre/right) are canvassing for potential votes.
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consensus is that Streeting will be backed by the centre and right parts of the party. he doesn't seem like much of an improvement but at this point a leadership contest itself would be great. labour will finally have to talk about policy.
 
neverdie said:
consensus is that Streeting will be backed by the centre and right parts of the party. he doesn't seem like much of an improvement but at this point a leadership contest itself would be great. labour will finally have to talk about policy.
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Streeting is almost as full as Starmer. Mind you the quality of MPs across all parties seems incredibly low at the moment.
 
neverdie said:
consensus is that Streeting will be backed by the centre and right parts of the party. he doesn't seem like much of an improvement but at this point a leadership contest itself would be great. labour will finally have to talk about policy.
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Policies would be nice, wouldn't they?

Plus a clear focus and messaging on the most important ones so the electorate actually know what it is Labour stands for.

Something like this (in terms of how to present them):

labour-pledge-card.jpg
 
Frosty said:
Good points. Absolutely help should be provided for those who need it. I have always favoured a graduate tax. Scotland is interesting - not least because if/when they become independent they will lose the block grant from the UK government and have quite a lot of fiscal issues (falling population, falling oil and gas receipts) so I am not sure if subsidised tuition can last.
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The fiscal fall out of independence is, of course, unknown but further education free at the point of need will remain a priority north of the border.

A graduate tax is fair, although I'd rather imagined that income tax should reflect that with graduates being higher earners on average.
 
neverdie said:
consensus is that Streeting will be backed by the centre and right parts of the party. he doesn't seem like much of an improvement but at this point a leadership contest itself would be great. labour will finally have to talk about policy.
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What is the attraction of Streeting. Because I have to confess that I don't know much about him.
Is he being groomed for stardom. And if so, what is his power base.
 
Frosty said:
I am fortunate to know a couple of people 'inside the firm' so to speak, on the right of the party, so please forgive the ITK information. But the NEC are already prepping for a leadership election and to put in place an interim to fight a snap election this Autumn. Plus the feeling is that Durham police will issue a fine, and at least three MPs (centre/right) are canvassing for potential votes.
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Cheers for this. Sounds like things could get pretty interesting.
 
Frosty said:
Policies would be nice, wouldn't they?

Plus a clear focus and messaging on the most important ones so the electorate actually know what it is Labour stands for.

Something like this (in terms of how to present them):

labour-pledge-card.jpg
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‘cut VAT on heating to 5% and inflation and interest rates as low as possible’ is a really awful sentence to read
 
Sweet Square said:
Cheers for this. Sounds like things could get pretty interesting.
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For what it is worth, the only Labour MP who I have been impressed with is Yvette Cooper.
I have no idea whether she would be interested in running. But I do believe that she would make a significantly bigger impact than Starmer as thus far.
 
Buster15 said:
For what it is worth, the only Labour MP who I have been impressed with is Yvette Cooper.
I have no idea whether she would be interested in running. But I do believe that she would make a significantly bigger impact than Starmer as thus far.
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Yeah, she's certainly much better than Wes Streeting.
 
esmufc07 said:
Streeting is almost as full as Starmer. Mind you the quality of MPs across all parties seems incredibly low at the moment.
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quality is crap.

Frosty said:
Policies would be nice, wouldn't they?

Plus a clear focus and messaging on the most important ones so the electorate actually know what it is Labour stands for.

Something like this (in terms of how to present them):

labour-pledge-card.jpg
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aside from the crime stuff it's not even a bad platform. will not cut it these days for obvious reasons but the format of five key policies is a good one. typical Blair.

Buster15 said:
What is the attraction of Streeting. Because I have to confess that I don't know much about him.
Is he being groomed for stardom. And if so, what is his power base.
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he seems to be well regarded by the centrists and the right of centre crowd. the anti-Corbyn faction really. not a fan of his but in a leadership election who knows.
 
Buster15 said:
For what it is worth, the only Labour MP who I have been impressed with is Yvette Cooper.
I have no idea whether she would be interested in running. But I do believe that she would make a significantly bigger impact than Starmer as thus far.
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I would have voted for her had she stood in the last leadership election.
 
Dobba said:
Think the NEC would need to find a way to prevent disabled members (and anyone who has ever met a disabled person) from voting in leadership elections before she tried that again.
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In the unlikely event you ever start backing a party instead of shitting on them I might become interested in your posts.
 
711 said:
In the unlikely event you ever start backing a party instead of shitting on them I might become interested in your posts.
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Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find some people as willing to overlook the absolute evil she proposed and signed off on whilst at the DWP as you are. She just couldn't find too many last time.
 
Frosty said:
I am fortunate to know a couple of people 'inside the firm' so to speak, on the right of the party, so please forgive the ITK information. But the NEC are already prepping for a leadership election and to put in place an interim to fight a snap election this Autumn. Plus the feeling is that Durham police will issue a fine, and at least three MPs (centre/right) are canvassing for potential votes.
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That's interesting. I know a couple of people who have been involved in the Wakefield contest and it doesn't sound like it's going as well as expected.

I thought Labour would walk it yet it sounds like Starmer's popularity is an issue on the doorstep. I'd still be confident of a Labour win but i'd expect lots of downplaying towards a very narrow win.
 
Smores said:
That's interesting. I know a couple of people who have been involved in the Wakefield contest and it doesn't sound like it's going as well as expected.

I thought Labour would walk it yet it sounds like Starmer's popularity is an issue on the doorstep. I'd still be confident of a Labour win but i'd expect lots of downplaying towards a very narrow win.
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Yeah everyone I know gets very defensive when I ask any questions about Wakefield. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the Tories hang on, which will be doubly depressing - on the one hand it shows that Starmer's tactics of not being Boris but not offering policies is not working; on the other it will validate the Tories culture war campaign (NI, Rwanda etc) possibly turbo charging it. That'll be fun....
 
Frosty said:
I am fortunate to know a couple of people 'inside the firm' so to speak, on the right of the party, so please forgive the ITK information. But the NEC are already prepping for a leadership election and to put in place an interim to fight a snap election this Autumn. Plus the feeling is that Durham police will issue a fine, and at least three MPs (centre/right) are canvassing for potential votes.
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His job is done anyway. He's purged the party and changed its structure.

Labour will struggle to get my vote again.
 
Frosty said:
Yeah everyone I know gets very defensive when I ask any questions about Wakefield. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the Tories hang on, which will be doubly depressing - on the one hand it shows that Starmer's tactics of not being Boris but not offering policies is not working; on the other it will validate the Tories culture war campaign (NI, Rwanda etc) possibly turbo charging it. That'll be fun....
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If that happens hopefully MPs would move quickly. It would take 20% of them to agree on a challenger to trigger an election. Seems unlikely, but if enough senior figures go to him and indicate no confidence there is a chance he would resign I suppose.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
His job is done anyway. He's purged the party and changed its structure.

Labour will struggle to get my vote again.
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Genuinely I am sorry to read that. I have met many on the doorstep who have said similar.

But the calculation has been made. Without PR, and to get a governing majority, especially without Scotland, it is votes from the centre which need to be won, not solely from the left. I really wish that were not true, and I would be absolutely delighted to be proved wrong.
 
While I again stress that I would prefer Starmer over Johnson as PM, and any form of Labour-led government over any form of Tory-led government, I fully understand why people on the left of the Labour despise Starmer.

Let’s call a spade a spade, his 2020 leadership campaign was dishonest and deceitful, and he couldn’t renege on many of his promises as soon as possible. And while talking about how the party needed to ‘look outwards not inwards’ and ‘face the country’, he seemed to prioritise purging people on the left of the party.

I wasn’t a diehard Corbynite at all and became increasingly critical of his leadership over time (I did like Labour’s 2017 manifesto but not their 2019 one). Despite rifts and divisions within the Tory party over time, Labour has usually felt more fractured and a much wider coalition (they are essentially 3 separate parties under 1 umbrella). The fact that the same party has often been conflicted between the politics of Tony Blair and the politics of Tony Benn is farcical, but that’s of course a by-product of a terrible and outdated FPTP system.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
The fiscal fall out of independence is, of course, unknown but further education free at the point of need will remain a priority north of the border.

A graduate tax is fair, although I'd rather imagined that income tax should reflect that with graduates being higher earners on average.
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There already is a graduate tax. It just disproportionately affects normal graduates compared to very high earning ones. Most students won't pay back their loans, they'll just keep paying contributions until the loan term elapses. I'm lucky that it's only 25 years for me but more recent graduates with £9000 fees will basically be paying it forever thanks to Tony and the Tories.
 
Cloudface said:
And thus they avoid the most obvious political trap in history.

Make the story about Tory failure to manage the country and not "Labour MPs pictured stopping hard working British nurses going to work."
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Well said and spot on.
 
Cloudface said:
And thus they avoid the most obvious political trap in history.

Make the story about Tory failure to manage the country and not "Labour MPs pictured stopping hard working British nurses going to work."
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Yup. Starmer's doing a crap job but this is obviously the right approach.
 
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