Keir Starmer Labour Leader

ManchesterManchester said:
He’s a good guy and politician but I feel he’s more of a manager type than a leader, he doesn’t seem to inspire much. I admit I don’t know who else realistically. That’s the unfortunate thing about politics, we can only choose from the candidates in front of us.

I know these guys are chosen by their party’s but guys like Sir Starmer and Eton Boris are all just there because of their status and connections. Tired of people cut from the same cloth, it would be refreshing to have a leader from a real world background. Sorry, im babbling and ranting now :lol:
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You can't compare Starmer and Johnson's routes. Starmer did actually come from humble origins, his parents were not wealthy and did not have connections to get him into the best institutions. He was the first in his family to go to a university. That's nothing like Boris Johnson. Starmer being knighted doesn't erase his roots unless you apply that to everyone, for example Sir Alex Ferguson? Starmer's career path is best described as upward mobility because he earned those jobs he got before entering politics. Upward mobility is a good thing. People have ambitions and aspirations. I voted for Jeremy Corbyn both times and agreed with most of what he said on the issues but it is ironic that he did come from a much more privileged background and is a career politician which isn't exactly real world background.
 
Boycott said:
You can't compare Starmer and Johnson's routes. Starmer did actually come from humble origins, his parents were not wealthy and did not have connections to get him into the best institutions. He was the first in his family to go to a university. That's nothing like Boris Johnson. Starmer being knighted doesn't erase his roots unless you apply that to everyone, for example Sir Alex Ferguson? Starmer's career path is best described as upward mobility because he earned those jobs he got before entering politics. Upward mobility is a good thing. People have ambitions and aspirations. I voted for Jeremy Corbyn both times and agreed with most of what he said on the issues but it is ironic that he did come from a much more privileged background and is a career politician which isn't exactly real world background.
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Really good points, he had a much more humble up bringing than Boris. Although, he did attend a 20k a year private school which was more the point I was making. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but I don’t think we have ever had a leader that didn’t attend private school.
 
ManchesterManchester said:
Really good points, he had a much more humble up bringing than Boris. Although, he did attend a 20k a year private school which was more the point I was making. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but I don’t think we have ever had a leader that didn’t attend private school.
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Gordon Brown, I’m pretty sure.
 
ManchesterManchester said:
Really good points, he had a much more humble up bringing than Boris. Although, he did attend a 20k a year private school which was more the point I was making. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but I don’t think we have ever had a leader that didn’t attend private school.
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Wilson, Callaghan, Heath, Thatcher & Major all state-educated. Going back a bit now I suppose.
 
ManchesterManchester said:
He’s a good guy and politician but I feel he’s more of a manager type than a leader, he doesn’t seem to inspire much. I admit I don’t know who else realistically. That’s the unfortunate thing about politics, we can only choose from the candidates in front of us.

I know these guys are chosen by their party’s but guys like Sir Starmer and Eton Boris are all just there because of their status and connections. Tired of people cut from the same cloth, it would be refreshing to have a leader from a real world background. Sorry, im babbling and ranting now :lol:
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Certainly not babbling or ranting. You are passionate and that is good.
In the main, I agree with you. But we are where we are and despite his obvious limitations in terms of charisma, he is probably the best we have got to go with.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Major? Surprises me, that one
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He left school early with three O levels and didn't go to uni, but went on to become chancellor and PM. It's quite a story and he's easily one of the most likeable Tories of recent decades.
 
Jippy said:
He left school early with three O levels and didn't go to uni, but went on to become chancellor and PM. It's quite a story and he's easily one of the most likeable Tories of recent decades.
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Fair enough….I was pretty young when he was hanging up his boots tbf
 
Issue that Starmer has is that he has literally zero connection with the public...he's like a robot.

Boris, as much of a twat as he is, would still have a good chance in the next election because people can relate to him...he seems more human.
 
Tibs said:
Issue that Starmer has is that he has literally zero connection with the public...he's like a robot.

Boris, as much of a twat as he is, would still have a good chance in the next election because people can relate to him...he seems more human.
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It's the incessant heavy handed PRing of everything Starmer says and does that is really off putting. He's tactically like Van Gaal in that it's endless side ways passing and trying not to make any mistakes. Comes across as flaccid and lacking opinions where it matters.

Keen for Burnham to get back involved.
 
ManchesterManchester said:
He’s a good guy and politician but I feel he’s more of a manager type than a leader, he doesn’t seem to inspire much. I admit I don’t know who else realistically. That’s the unfortunate thing about politics, we can only choose from the candidates in front of us.

I know these guys are chosen by their party’s but guys like Sir Starmer and Eton Boris are all just there because of their status and connections. Tired of people cut from the same cloth, it would be refreshing to have a leader from a real world background. Sorry, im babbling and ranting now :lol:
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Stop acting like a child. This regurgitated drivel is the exact reason this country is politically destitute.

Why are you posting in a political thread if you don’t even have the simplest grasp of what you’re discussing.

Starmer IS from a real world background. Yes, he worked his tail off and went to University and had a career. But surely you’re not advocating for ‘Real world’ to mean our PM being a truly average Joe?

Read a little more. Stop swallowing this Tory Whitehall Shitehawk narrative that tells everyone that ‘Politicians’ are all the same. They’re not. All MP’s backgrounds are public record. Just go and read some. Then start telling your friends and family what the key points of difference are.

The Labour benches had MP’s returning to work in hospitals at the height of the pandemic. The Tory benches had backhanders and parties. The Labour benches have ‘second jobs’ that are generally in public services. The Tory benches have ‘second jobs’ that pay six figures and see them lobby for private enterprise.

It’s not something to wave away. If you want to post about politics, at least have a grasp of what you’re saying.

I know I sound like a monumental prick. I am. But I get snitty from a place that used to Trot out the same Guff as you. My working class parents voted Tory. They read The Sun. It took far too many years for me to step back and reassess the various layers of dogma I passed off as truth.

Sorry if that’s way too twatty x
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Stop acting like a child. This regurgitated drivel is the exact reason this country is politically destitute.

Why are you posting in a political thread if you don’t even have the simplest grasp of what you’re discussing.

Starmer IS from a real world background. Yes, he worked his tail off and went to University and had a career. But surely you’re not advocating for ‘Real world’ to mean our PM being a truly average Joe?

Read a little more. Stop swallowing this Tory Whitehall Shitehawk narrative that tells everyone that ‘Politicians’ are all the same. They’re not. All MP’s backgrounds are public record. Just go and read some. Then start telling your friends and family what the key points of difference are.

The Labour benches had MP’s returning to work in hospitals at the height of the pandemic. The Tory benches had backhanders and parties. The Labour benches have ‘second jobs’ that are generally in public services. The Tory benches have ‘second jobs’ that pay six figures and see them lobby for private enterprise.

It’s not something to wave away. If you want to post about politics, at least have a grasp of what you’re saying.

I know I sound like a monumental prick. I am. But I get snitty from a place that used to Trot out the same Guff as you. My working class parents voted Tory. They read The Sun. It took far too many years for me to step back and reassess the various layers of dogma I passed off as truth.

Sorry if that’s way too twatty x
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I think you probably realise it already but that’s a deeply off-putting attitude, it’s hardly going to motivate someone to learn more about the subject.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Stop acting like a child. This regurgitated drivel is the exact reason this country is politically destitute.

Why are you posting in a political thread if you don’t even have the simplest grasp of what you’re discussing.

Starmer IS from a real world background. Yes, he worked his tail off and went to University and had a career. But surely you’re not advocating for ‘Real world’ to mean our PM being a truly average Joe?

Read a little more. Stop swallowing this Tory Whitehall Shitehawk narrative that tells everyone that ‘Politicians’ are all the same. They’re not. All MP’s backgrounds are public record. Just go and read some. Then start telling your friends and family what the key points of difference are.

The Labour benches had MP’s returning to work in hospitals at the height of the pandemic. The Tory benches had backhanders and parties. The Labour benches have ‘second jobs’ that are generally in public services. The Tory benches have ‘second jobs’ that pay six figures and see them lobby for private enterprise.

It’s not something to wave away. If you want to post about politics, at least have a grasp of what you’re saying.

I know I sound like a monumental prick. I am. But I get snitty from a place that used to Trot out the same Guff as you. My working class parents voted Tory. They read The Sun. It took far too many years for me to step back and reassess the various layers of dogma I passed off as truth.

Sorry if that’s way too twatty x
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I disagree with Starmer and won't be voting for him.

However, I do agree that the Tories getting the public to believe "they are all the same" is a tactic of false equivalence. Too many fall for it.

Starner lying and breaking all of his leadership pledges doesn't help his case though does it?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Stop acting like a child. This regurgitated drivel is the exact reason this country is politically destitute.

Why are you posting in a political thread if you don’t even have the simplest grasp of what you’re discussing.

Starmer IS from a real world background. Yes, he worked his tail off and went to University and had a career. But surely you’re not advocating for ‘Real world’ to mean our PM being a truly average Joe?

Read a little more. Stop swallowing this Tory Whitehall Shitehawk narrative that tells everyone that ‘Politicians’ are all the same. They’re not. All MP’s backgrounds are public record. Just go and read some. Then start telling your friends and family what the key points of difference are.

The Labour benches had MP’s returning to work in hospitals at the height of the pandemic. The Tory benches had backhanders and parties. The Labour benches have ‘second jobs’ that are generally in public services. The Tory benches have ‘second jobs’ that pay six figures and see them lobby for private enterprise.

It’s not something to wave away. If you want to post about politics, at least have a grasp of what you’re saying.

I know I sound like a monumental prick. I am. But I get snitty from a place that used to Trot out the same Guff as you. My working class parents voted Tory. They read The Sun. It took far too many years for me to step back and reassess the various layers of dogma I passed off as truth.

Sorry if that’s way too twatty x
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Don’t be sorry, this thread is for debating!

I admit I didn’t know enough about him. Another poster has already corrected me that the school he went to was a state school when he joined and actually turned private while he was there. That is something new I have learnt, he is definitely from a hard working honest background.

I think I made my point wrong, I definitely don’t want someone who skipped school or can’t talk without swearing becoming prime minister. I have no issue if they are from a rich background, that doesn’t make people who they are. It should be a be a good thing if they went to private school and had a brilliant education. I just want them to be there for the right reasons and be the right person for the job.

It’s just disappointing that Cameron and Boris have both been prime minister. I mean fair enough if just one of them but two people from the same class at Eton, that is way too small a pool to select our counties leaders from.

Labour has not always had strong leaders though despite having the best policies so your parents I’m sure were proud to vote Tory just like mine were. The strong leadership again was missing with Brexit. The people voted to leave and Corbyn who has always been against the idea of the European Union. Let the election happen with supporters not knowing if he wants to follow democracy or try to reverse the vote. It cost Labour the election.

Which brings me back to Starmer. He was always very clear we need to respect the vote and do the best we can with it. So as much as I don’t think he is an inspiring man, he is decisive and can handle big decisions. He appears to be front runner now for the election
 
ManchesterManchester said:
Don’t be sorry, this thread is for debating!

I admit I didn’t know enough about him. Another poster has already corrected me that the school he went to was a state school when he joined and actually turned private while he was there. That is something new I have learnt, he is definitely from a hard working honest background.

I think I made my point wrong, I definitely don’t want someone who skipped school or can’t talk without swearing becoming prime minister. I have no issue if they are from a rich background, that doesn’t make people who they are. It should be a be a good thing if they went to private school and had a brilliant education. I just want them to be there for the right reasons and be the right person for the job.

It’s just disappointing that Cameron and Boris have both been prime minister. I mean fair enough if just one of them but two people from the same class at Eton, that is way too small a pool to select our counties leaders from.

Labour has not always had strong leaders though despite having the best policies so your parents I’m sure were proud to vote Tory just like mine were. The strong leadership again was missing with Brexit. The people voted to leave and Corbyn who has always been against the idea of the European Union. Let the election happen with supporters not knowing if he wants to follow democracy or try to reverse the vote. It cost Labour the election.

Which brings me back to Starmer. He was always very clear we need to respect the vote and do the best we can with it. So as much as I don’t think he is an inspiring man, he is decisive and can handle big decisions. He appears to be front runner now for the election
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

The ghost of Josef Stalin is on the blower, he says your rewriting of history is a little over the top.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Stop acting like a child. This regurgitated drivel is the exact reason this country is politically destitute.

Why are you posting in a political thread if you don’t even have the simplest grasp of what you’re discussing.

Starmer IS from a real world background. Yes, he worked his tail off and went to University and had a career. But surely you’re not advocating for ‘Real world’ to mean our PM being a truly average Joe?

Read a little more. Stop swallowing this Tory Whitehall Shitehawk narrative that tells everyone that ‘Politicians’ are all the same. They’re not. All MP’s backgrounds are public record. Just go and read some. Then start telling your friends and family what the key points of difference are.

The Labour benches had MP’s returning to work in hospitals at the height of the pandemic. The Tory benches had backhanders and parties. The Labour benches have ‘second jobs’ that are generally in public services. The Tory benches have ‘second jobs’ that pay six figures and see them lobby for private enterprise.

It’s not something to wave away. If you want to post about politics, at least have a grasp of what you’re saying.

I know I sound like a monumental prick. I am. But I get snitty from a place that used to Trot out the same Guff as you. My working class parents voted Tory. They read The Sun. It took far too many years for me to step back and reassess the various layers of dogma I passed off as truth.

Sorry if that’s way too twatty x
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
ManchesterManchester said:
Don’t be sorry, this thread is for debating!

I admit I didn’t know enough about him. Another poster has already corrected me that the school he went to was a state school when he joined and actually turned private while he was there. That is something new I have learnt, he is definitely from a hard working honest background.

I think I made my point wrong, I definitely don’t want someone who skipped school or can’t talk without swearing becoming prime minister. I have no issue if they are from a rich background, that doesn’t make people who they are. It should be a be a good thing if they went to private school and had a brilliant education. I just want them to be there for the right reasons and be the right person for the job.

It’s just disappointing that Cameron and Boris have both been prime minister. I mean fair enough if just one of them but two people from the same class at Eton, that is way too small a pool to select our counties leaders from.

Labour has not always had strong leaders though despite having the best policies so your parents I’m sure were proud to vote Tory just like mine were. The strong leadership again was missing with Brexit. The people voted to leave and Corbyn who has always been against the idea of the European Union. Let the election happen with supporters not knowing if he wants to follow democracy or try to reverse the vote. It cost Labour the election.

Which brings me back to Starmer. He was always very clear we need to respect the vote and do the best we can with it. So as much as I don’t think he is an inspiring man, he is decisive and can handle big decisions. He appears to be front runner now for the election
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Starmer was the Brexit secretary who campaigned for Labour to adopt the "another referendum" policy...but apart from that you were really close.
 
TwoSheds said:
Starmer was the Brexit secretary who campaigned for Labour to adopt the "another referendum" policy...but apart from that you were really close.
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Dobba said:
Then proudly announced, on his own accord, at his conference speech that they were the party of remain.
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Bare in mind I’m only talking about what Starmer has said since he became leader. I agree though, it’s hypocritical of him to say he will respect the result now he’s leader when he obviously didn’t before.
 
ManchesterManchester said:
Bare in mind I’m only talking about what Starmer has said since he became leader. I agree though, it’s hypocritical of him to say he will respect the result now he’s leader when he obviously didn’t before.
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Do you think he'd make a success of Brexit if he got the opportunity? What sort of changes do you think he'd make to the relationship with the EU or other trading partners?
 
TwoSheds said:
Do you think he'd make a success of Brexit if he got the opportunity? What sort of changes do you think he'd make to the relationship with the EU or other trading partners?
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I don’t think he would be as he didn’t agree with it so he wouldn’t have the vision and enthusiasm to lead it. However, Brexit is basically delivered now thanks to Boris Johnson. I personally think he has has truly been a big let down in most things for me but he did a fine job of negotiating hard with Brussels to get us the best deal possible. He will atleast be remembered as the PM who delivered Brexit.

So in theory, the next prime minister will not have any Brexit or EU issues to worry about and will have a nice clean platform now that we are a free country. They will have the ability to change England for the better. Do you think Starmer could be that man? If not who would you like to see?
 
ManchesterManchester said:
I don’t think he would be as he didn’t agree with it so he wouldn’t have the vision and enthusiasm to lead it. However, Brexit is basically delivered now thanks to Boris Johnson. I personally think he has has truly been a big let down in most things for me but he did a fine job of negotiating hard with Brussels to get us the best deal possible. He will atleast be remembered as the PM who delivered Brexit.

So in theory, the next prime minister will not have any Brexit or EU issues to worry about and will have a nice clean platform now that we are a free country. They will have the ability to change England for the better. Do you think Starmer could be that man? If not who would you like to see?
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Do you really think it was the best deal possible? What do you think about the Northern Ireland situation?
 
TwoSheds said:
Do you really think it was the best deal possible? What do you think about the Northern Ireland situation?
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No it wasn’t the best deal possible (see the messy Northern Ireland situation) but it was the only deal possible. Labour didn’t want to negotiate as wanted to leave in name only, Lib Dems didn’t want to negotiate same reason and UKIP didn’t want to negotiate, just wanted to leave. What alternative do you think there was or what could have been done better?
 
ManchesterManchester said:
No it wasn’t the best deal possible (see the messy Northern Ireland situation) but it was the only deal possible. Labour didn’t want to negotiate as wanted to leave in name only, Lib Dems didn’t want to negotiate same reason and UKIP didn’t want to negotiate, just wanted to leave. What alternative do you think there was or what could have been done better?
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Well I don't know, I thought of the "hard" Brexit possibilities May's deal without the border in the Irish sea made more sense than Boris', but if I had my choice I would have negotiated to remain in the single market to avoid the lorry queues and problems with exports. I suppose that's what you'd call Brexit in name only though? I just thought the whole negotiations were conducted very childishly on both sides, but particularly on ours. I'm embarrassed by it all.
 
Spark said:
It's the incessant heavy handed PRing of everything Starmer says and does that is really off putting. He's tactically like Van Gaal in that it's endless side ways passing and trying not to make any mistakes. Comes across as flaccid and lacking opinions where it matters.

Keen for Burnham to get back involved.
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I don't know if Burnham would do much better...such a shame that Emily Thornberry posted that image of the England flags otherwise I'd back her
 
TwoSheds said:
Well I don't know, I thought of the "hard" Brexit possibilities May's deal without the border in the Irish sea made more sense than Boris', but if I had my choice I would have negotiated to remain in the single market to avoid the lorry queues and problems with exports. I suppose that's what you'd call Brexit in name only though? I just thought the whole negotiations were conducted very childishly on both sides, but particularly on ours. I'm embarrassed by it all.
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Yeah would consider it name only :lol:. The campaign for leave was clear that we would leave the single market and EU court would not have jurastiction on us anymore. Otherwise we wouldn’t be leaving, they had to deliver on what people voted for, wrong or right.

The EU were being unreasonable but I understand it as they see us as a huge threat for being a strong economy. I agree though it got messy and made us look bad after May agreed a deal then Boris came in and had to re-negotiate it, awkward! After the dust settles I’m sure we will be best mates with Europe again :)
 
ManchesterManchester said:
Yeah would consider it name only :lol:. The campaign for leave was clear that we would leave the single market and EU court would not have jurastiction on us anymore. Otherwise we wouldn’t be leaving, they had to deliver on what people voted for, wrong or right.

The EU were being unreasonable but I understand it as they see us as a huge threat for being a strong economy. I agree though it got messy and made us look bad after May agreed a deal then Boris came in and had to re-negotiate it, awkward! After the dust settles I’m sure we will be best mates with Europe again :)
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I don't think anything is or ever was clear about Brexit tbf. As an example:

Arron Banks, a founder of the Leave.EU campaign tweeted in November 2015 “Increasingly the Norway option looks the best for the UK”.

i.e. still part of the single market while not being an EU member.
 
ManchesterManchester said:
Yeah would consider it name only :lol:. The campaign for leave was clear that we would leave the single market and EU court would not have jurastiction on us anymore. Otherwise we wouldn’t be leaving, they had to deliver on what people voted for, wrong or right.

The EU were being unreasonable but I understand it as they see us as a huge threat for being a strong economy. I agree though it got messy and made us look bad after May agreed a deal then Boris came in and had to re-negotiate it, awkward! After the dust settles I’m sure we will be best mates with Europe again :)
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There will, inevitably, at the politically expedient time, be a closer integration. The current situation is a barrier to trade and, when money is involved, there is only one direction to go in.

I'm equally, sure, however that Europe will continue to be used as a political tennis ball in UK politics.

As for your point around delivering what people were voting for: well, that's one of the big issues isn't it? There's no consensus there.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
There will, inevitably, at the politically expedient time, be a closer integration. The current situation is a barrier to trade and, when money is involved, there is only one direction to go in.

I'm equally, sure, however that Europe will continue to be used as a political tennis ball in UK politics.

As for your point around delivering what people were voting for: well, that's one of the big issues isn't it? There's no consensus there.
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This is really for the Brexit thread. But the politically expedient time won't come for decades from the EU. They have a disincentive to encourage other countries to leave and still win back big benefits.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
This is really for the Brexit thread. But the politically expedient time won't come for decades from the EU. They have a disincentive to encourage other countries to leave and still win back big benefits.
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Yes. It'll be sometime yet, when those in power have sated themselves on their disaster capitalism.
 
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